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Professor's Notes - A Guide to Being Super Effective With Pokémon Trainer

TheReflexWonder

Wonderful!
BRoomer
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Feb 10, 2005
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TheReflexWonder
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I decided to do this in order to help others learn exactly what Pokémon Trainer is capable of. Hopefully it will give players an idea of where to start and help people understand the character better. Perhaps it will help tournament representation. I dunno. I just wanted to try to keep the ball rolling.

Before starting, I recommend reading the frame data thread and the advanced technique thread in order to have a better understanding of some terms.

That being said, do you want to learn how to play as Pokémon Trainer?

Squirtle



Let's talk about Squirtle. To the average player, Squirtle is the Pokémon to fear--he is generally considered to be an above-average character. With quick moves, amazing combo potential, a solid recovery, good KO moves, and great movement speed, it's no wonder that many players say that if he was a standalone character, Squirtle would be a secondary for them. His main weakness is somewhat lackluster range, but the ability to do lagless aerials and a Frame 1 jab should help keep him safe. He can wall-cling, and every extra option, no matter how miniscule, is good to have. Having great aerial mobility allows him to weave in and out with little trouble, making it easy to start an aggressive combo or run away to your heart's content.




Jab – 9% (3%, 2%, 4%)
-First
Hit: 1 (no startup frames!)
Jab Window: 4-29
End: 16

-Second:
Hit: 5 (9 as earliest Jab1 follow-up)
Jab Window: 9-30 (13-34 as earliest Jab1 follow-up)
End: 21 (30 as earliest Jab1 follow-up)

-Third:
Hit: 6 (19 as earliest Jab1/Jab2 follow-up)
End: 36 (49 as earliest Jab1/Jab2 follow-up)

A three-hit jab combo. The first hit comes out on frame 1, which is wonderful, as it stuffs a lot of things. Unfortunately, the opponent can shield in the middle of it at low percents, causing it to be less useful. However, because of its speed, if the opponent doesn't see it coming, you can usually get the full combo off with impunity. Because of the first jab's decent range and lack of knockback, it's useful on opponents aiming to grab the ledge; catch a Snake's mid-air jump with this and get your free stock. If your opponent happens to miss his tech on the ground, the first and second hits can cause a Jab Lock, so watch for that. A fairly useful move.

One cool thing that I like to do with it is grab release -> jab combo; shields and spot-dodges activate on frame 2, so the first hit is pretty much guaranteed in a normal setting, and at higher percentages, so is the rest of the combo. It's a nice alternative to F-Throwing someone off the stage, and it helps your diminishing returns a whole lot. Four or five pummels -> jab combo almost entirely fixes it. It works on a large majority of the cast; the only characters I know it doesn't work on are Luigi and Yoshi, but more testing must be done.




Dash Attack - 9/7% (sweet/sour)
Start up: 1-5
Hit: 6-22 (6-9 sweet, 10-22 sour)
End: 41

Squirtle jumps towards the opponent with the back of his shell turned outward. Quick and safe as far as dash attacks go; good for harassment. Doesn't lead into anything, but it's always nice to have another quick option. Since Squirtle keeps moving after he hits the opponent, he goes behind the opponent, which can mess up a punishment attempt. It's usually a good move to do "just because" as a result.




Forward-Tilt – 6%
Start up: 1-3
Hit: 4-7
End: 17

Squirtle swings his tail sideways towards the opponent. It's comes out pretty fast (even for a Forward-Tilt), and has very little cooldown time, which automatically makes it spammable. At low percentages, you can follow it up with a guaranteed Jab, or use another F-Tilt, which isn't guaranteed, but is usually safe. It is a good move to throw out "just in case", as it does a good job of protecting you on the ground. While in the animation, Squirtle crouches low to the ground, so it makes you harder to hit while doing it. This is a driving force in ground attacks; the opponent has to guess whether another F-Tilt, a jab, a grab, or an aerial will come next, so Squirtle has that on his side. The frame advantage seems pretty good--If the opponent doesn't have a ridiculously fast ground move on their side, F-Tilt -> Jab is pretty easy to land. Don't be afraid to stick it out in a pinch. It's a nice option when dealing with an opponent on the ledge, too, simply because it has decent range (as far as Squirtle goes, anyway) and you can react quickly if it doesn't hit the opponent. Also, this move can start a Jab Lock effect...and on stages with walls, Squirtle can lock standing opponents in place until 100% or so; think about that when you have counterpick stages to choose from.




Up-Tilt – 6%
Start up: 1-4
Hit: 5-6
End: 17

Squirtle does a small bounce off the ground and raises his arms to strike the opponent. This move leads into itself at low percents, and on fastfallers and fatties, the diminishing returns allow you to combo the opponent until about 60%! The opponent can Smash DI sideways, but it's not difficult to give chase. A decent interrupting move when you're really close, but since Jab and F-Tilt do that better, it's most for comboing into itself. Still, it's relatively quick, so if the opponent is looking for a laggy animation in order to punish (like, say, the last hit of a Jab combo), you can do this move and quickly go into another Jab or Tilt. I don't recommend using this repeatedly unless you're almost positive you're going to combo with it, as it's pretty easy to grab Squirtle out of such a thing, especially because of the "rhythm" of attacks. Throwing out a Jab is good, as it will stuff a lot of grab attempts on shield.

A good way to land this move is to read an airdodge into the ground; a simple U-Throw is good. You can mix it up between a U-Air juggle (in which they must airdodge immediately) and a U-Tilt chain; if you choose right, they'll probably take a good 30% at least. Give it a thought when you're up against characters who aren't good in the air.




Down-Tilt – 13% (2%, 2%, 2%, 2%, 5%)
Start up: 1-5
Hit: 6, 8, 10, 12, 14
End: 36

Squirtle spins around on his lower shell/belly. It hits multiple times, which is where most of the move's use comes from. It has decent potential in getting through shields as a result, and it's a risk-free way of punishing late air-dodges, since it's very difficult to time it incorrectly. It pops the opponent up, so it can be used as a set-up for juggles. It's natural to use it out of a crawl, so that gives a bit of extra utility. Still, unless you're trying to get through a shrinking shield, there are almost always better options. Just keep it in mind when some of your opponent's shield has been used up, since it has the most potential to shield-poke, as it hits so low. Always have it in mind when the opponent's shield is being pressured, especially if the character has a bad shield (ROB) or the character's name is Ice Climbers (although you don't want to do this very often). Also, it destroys Brinstar's center area quickly, so keep that in mind if you're ever playing there.




Forward-Smash – 14%
Start up: 1-17
Super Armor: 17-20
Hit: 18-20
End: 64

Squirtle gets into his shell, rears back a bit, and launches himself forward. A powerful attack (by Squirtle standards, at least) that is slow to come out, and has a fair amount of cooldown time. As a result, this move is almost never a recommended idea, unless the opponent is stunned or predictable. However, one important factor is that the move has super-armor as Squirtle moves forward. Granted, that's a very small time frame, but every little bit helps, and it should make you a little more comfortable about throwing it out. All-in-all, you won't be doing this move much, but it has decent potential as a horizontal KO move, as the opponent's trajectory isn't very high when hit by this move. Also, Squirtle's position changes if he propels himself onto a different slope...it can allow him to get extra height and distance. Think about this on stages such as Yoshi's Island. If you can time the attack well enough, you can use the super armor frames (which are when the attack can actually hit) to anticipate an attack from the ledge and punish them in a big way. You'll get to charge it a bit, usually, and depending on their roll animation, you might be able to hit them even if they roll.




Up-Smash – 16% (3%, 13-5%)
Start up: 1-18
Hit: 19 (weak pop-up hit), 20-25 (gets weaker the later it hits)
End: 65

Squirtle slams his hands on the ground, making two water jets come up from below. This is, to my knowledge, Squirtle's most powerful attack (in damage and knockback), as long as it's sweetspotted. However, this move doesn't come out quickly, so it's not a reliable method of KO'ing. This is what most people think of when hydroplaning is mentioned, but since the most is slow to come out, it's not going to catch many off-guard. It hits multiple times, although it's not really any more than two or three hits. Still an idea as a shield-poke, although D-Tilt is usually better for that. I'm wondering how much potential it has as an anti-air of sorts...If the opponent is thinking about landing with a command grab or a quick aerial, this would punish them, and while Squirtle is usually looking for juggles and KOs with edgeguarding and D-Throws, the good range around Squirtle when he does it seems like a good way to bait and punish airdodges to the ground. You may even be able to use a hydroplane to scare the opponent into airdodging into it! Just tossing out some ideas.





Down-Smash – 11%
Start up: 1-16
Hit: 17-30
End: 52

Squirtle gets in his shell and spins upside-down on his shell. Not particularly good range, and it's his weakest Smash attack, but it covers both sides, unlike the F-Smash. It covers more range than it might look like, so it can catch people off-guard. I believe it is also Squirtle's quickest Smash attack, so maybe it has potential in that...but when you're going for speed, you tend to have better options. I wouldn't even call this a KO move, although it could be useful for getting enemies off of you. If only it got super-armor...but, alas. Still, since the animation is moderately faster than your other Smashes, you shouldn't get punished as badly for using it. A good opportunity to use this is when the opponent doesn't have an absolutely stupid get-up attack from the ledge. If you can stay just outside its range, you can charge a Down-Smash and hit the opponent if he doesn't outright jump from the ledge. Just release it when you anticipate their vulnerability--the range is good enough to cover that distance, usually.




Neutral-Air – 9/6% (sweet/sour)
Start up: 1-3
Hit: 4-33 (4-8 sweet, 9-33 sour)
Landing Lag: 4-36 (12 frames)
End: 48

An interesting attack. Squirtle retreats into his shell and spins around horizontally, causing him to move in a zig-zag of sorts. It has decent knockback, deals decent damage, has almost no landing lag, and stays out for a while. Also, the movement makes you a bit more unpredictable. It's a good move to try to trade hits with, if that's what you're looking for...and it's a pretty decent option out of shield. An immediate Neutral-Air hits during the entire animation and is completely lagless, so moving toward the opponent's shield at the end of a short-hop with it and jabbing as soon as you land will punish shieldgrabbers--as such, jumping around with immediate Neutral-Airs is intimidating and effective. Also, hitting with the late port of the attack will put the opponent in a position where they'll have to tech the ground or risk getting put in a Jab Lock. Keep this in mind if you think you'll hit with the weak part. Squirtle appears to have more reason to hit with the weak portion than the strong portion, but the N-Air is a solid aerial all-around.




Forward-Air – 12/6% (sweet/sour)
Start up: 1-4
Hit: 5-14 (5-6 sweet, 7-14 sour)
Landing Lag: 5-28
End: 37

Arguably Squirtle's premier KO move. Squirtle does a horizontal dropkick. It comes out very quickly, and has fairly good range. When fresh, it'll outright KO medium-sized characters at about 120%. Don't put much thought into saving it for the KO; it's a great juggle/combo-ender, and helps rack up damage nicely. It's one of Squirtle's best short-hop aerial options, although it is usually outclassed by B-Air in that respect. Use it in a pinch, and use it in tandem with B-Air and U-Air for harassing opponents in the air. Remember, doing a rising F-Air from the ground via short-hop or mid-air jump will keep you safe if the opponent doesn't have an aerial with stupid priority, like Dedede B-Air. This move is a good option for coming from the ledge, because of its good range and power. It also has little landing lag. Also, if you're on a slanted edge, such as Yoshi's Story, if you quickly ledgehop a F-Air while moving towards the stage, you'll slide a fair distance and instantly put yourself out of harm's way. Give it a try and experiment with some of your options afterwards.




Up-Air – 10%
Start up: 1-5
Hit: 6-8
Landing Lag: 1-18 (21 frames)
End: 24

Squirtle does a backflip, striking with his tail. This move has a lot of combo and juggle potential, as it starts and ends quickly, and works well in tandem with Squirtle's good jumping ability and great aerial mobility. It's a natural follow-up to an Up-Tilt chain or an Up-Throw, and with diminishing returns, it combos into itself at even middling percentages. Keep in mind that there is a little bit of landing lag if you use it while falling to the ground. Even if the opponent air-dodges through it, if you give chase, you should be able to hit them immediately after it ends. Because Squirtle's jumps are very good, it's hard to react to on command, so quickly jumping twice into a U-Air works more often than you might think. This move also has a fair amount of power when it is fresh, and kills sometime after 100%, but the most important thing is that it is one of Squirtle's best methods of dealing extra damage. You can do it out of a pivot for extra range--On taller characters, doing that to someone's shield is usually fairly safe, since it's really hard to see coming and the jump puts you out of harm's way.




Down-Air – 10% (1%, 1%, 1%, 1%, 1%, 5%)
Start Up: 1-5
Hit: 6-7, 9-10, 12-13, 15-16, 18-21, 23 (strong hit)
End: 50

Squirtle spins around with his tail pointing downwards. It hits multiple times; the first few hits deal minimal damage and knockback, has good range covering the area below you, and the last hit has the most knockback of any of Squirtle's aerials. In fact, the move has significant knockback even at lower percentages! As a result, this move makes for a decent shield-poke option, and is very good for a potential gimp if you can land it on an off-stage opponent. Keep in mind that this move also has the most landing lag of any of Squirtle's aerials, and is generally quite unsafe if it doesn't knock the opponent away, so be careful to not leave yourself open. This is an excellent move to use on any opponent with a smaller shield, and it since it sends the opponent more-or-less straight out, and the attack lasts a while (which will "negate" air-dodge use), it's very potent for gimping. Also, because of the multiple hits, you can get through an opponent's shield with it if it's already lowered a bit. A full-hop D-Air is a decent way to bait an approach, and it's relatively safe because of Squirtle's horizontal aerial mobility. It's not as all-purpose as the N-Air in that, but because of the landing lag (that won't happen after a full-hopped D-Air), people will often try to punish you, so you can trick them into an approach this way.




Back-Air – 10/6% (sweet/sour)
Start up: 1-4
Hit: 5-14 (5-6 sweet, 7-14 sour)
Lag: 5-28 (9 frames)
End: 34

Squirtle stretches out horizontally and pushes his tail backwards. This move is like the Forward-Air in many ways: good range, sticks straight out, decent knockback, little landing lag, and a good poking move. However, it's pretty much a safer form of the F-Air, as it has even more range and a little less damage and knockback. As a result, this should be your most-often-used short-hop aerial when fighting a grounded opponent. The range should keep you from getting shieldgrabbed as long as you space well, and it is a safe and effective option when edgeguarding. This would also refresh your F-Air if you have used it earlier, turning your F-Air into a potent kill move at higher percents. Using it out of a shellshift allows you to catch people off-guard, and is a great way to mix up your short-hop aerial timings and keep your opponent on his or her toes. Full-hopping it is generally very safe. Like the F-Air, do it out of a pivot when you can, as it gives the move even more range. This is also Squirtle's fastest aerial for momentum cancel effects, and it also has the least amount of landing lag.




Neutral-BWater Gun – Uncharged: 12% (seven weak hits), Charged (to any degree): 0%
Start up (fully-charged): 1-25
Hit (fully-charged): 26-60
End (fully-charged): 70

Squirtle sprays water out of his mouth in an attempt to push the opponent away. The uncharged form of this move is a short-range, multi-hit attack, but it's not very safe and doesn't do much damage; stick to the charged version. The charged version will send the opponent in the direction of the water flow. By using a shield button, you can cancel the charge into an air-dodge or a shield. As a result, this move is a good option as an edgeguard against characters with bad recoveries. While using this move in midair (charging or actually spitting out water), you can still move left and right, so use that to keep yourself safe while charging. When the opponent is on the stage, this is a virtually-unpunishable move. You can potentially get them off the stage, forcing them to jump, which will allow you to take advantage of your aerial superiority. Use this move often, even when there doesn't seem to be a practical use; you'd be surprised how helpful the extra space can be. Something to note is the fact that when this move is charged, Squirtle glows white a bit. If you are hit during the start-up of the animation (as in, water hasn't come out yet), the glow will be gone, but the charge will still be there. It might trick some people, and it might confuse you if you thought it was uncharged, so keep that in mind.




Forward-BWithdraw – 7-3% (the faster you move, the more damage it deals)
Start up: 1-17
Hit: 19+
Earliest Cancel: 60
Ending Lag: 20 frames

Squirtle gets into his shell and spins forward. This is a peculiar move; it has very little knockback and priority, and Squirtle cannot take damage after startup. He moves faster than normal directional movement when used in mid-air, so this can be used for extra distance when recovering, although it usually isn't necessary or particularly useful. If used at varying times, it can potentially be a bit of free damage, but if the opponent hits you during this move, you are sent in the opposite direction, which could be trouble. Also, if the opponent manages to footstool you during this move, you'll be left in a helpless state for about two full seconds. This move doesn't have very much practical use. If anything, it is affected by the slant of the floor Squirtle is sliding on, so it's harder for most people to punish on Lylat Cruise or Yoshi's Island (emphasis on Lylat Cruise, really).




Up-BWaterfall – 15% (2%, 2%, 2%, 1%, 1%, 1%, 1%, 1%, 1%, 3%)
Start up: 1-9
Hit: 10-11, 13-14, 16-17, 19-20, 22-23, 25-26, 28-29, 31-32, 34-35, 44-45 (causes knockback)
Landing Lag: 30 frames

Squirtle rides upward on a stream of water. This move has great range, and can catch the opponent off-guard at the right times. It deals a decent amount of damage, as well, so using it offensively isn't unheard of. The hitbox stays out for about a full second, so it can get through shields and it tends to get people off of the ledge when you recover. You can also change the direction of your movement during this attack, but that fact is negligible. If you're using it offensively, your best bet is to hold the analog stick toward your opponent, in order to land the most hits before going out of range. It doesn't have much knockback, and it's not hard to Smash DI out of, so don't spam this move. That being said, Squirtle starts falling almost immediately after the attack is over, and this move doesn't have much landing lag if you don't grab the ledge and turn it into recovery carry-over lag. On stages with a high platform (such as Battlefield), you can aim your Up-B to land on the platform as soon as you finish, and it makes the move difficult to punish.



Down-B - Switches to Ivysaur. Switching eliminates all diminishing return debuffs, so keep this in mind. Unlike Zelda/Sheik, you cannot switch when you are in respawn invincibility. When Zero Switching, Ivysaur gets two mid-air jumps.



Standing Grab

Start up: 1-5
Grab: 6-8
End: 30

Squirtle jumps forward a bit and attempts to grab the opponent. Comes out quickly, has great range for a grab (the same as Marth's, actually), has a fair amount of grab frames, and ends fairly quickly if you whiff. Not particularly punishable, but not something you can spam with impunity. An excellent move, and since Squirtle's grab game is rather good, you should always be looking for an opportunity to use it.



Running Grab

Start up: 1-7
Grab: 8-10
End: 40

Squirtle lunges forward a fair distance and falls onto the opponent. Extra range from the lunge, but leaves you much more open if you whiff. You're usually better of shielding and immediately grabbing out of that.



Pivot Grab

Start up: 1-8
Grab: 9-11
End: 37

Squirtle spins around and grabs in the opposite direction from where he is running. Squirtle's running speed isn't very good, so you won't find yourself doing this move often. It's very difficult to punish, though.



Grab Pummel - 1%

Start up: 1
Hit: 2
End: 17

Squirtle headbutts the opponent. Deals minimal damage at a fast rate. This is a quick way to deal a little extra damage. No matter how many pummels you do, it will only count as one move in the count for diminishing returns, but any extra damage helps. Unfortunately, timing pummels perfectly will not always prevent an opponent from being ground-released (there are only a couple of air-release frames, though, so you can count on the ground-release).



Forward-Throw – 9%
Start up: 1-11
Hit: 12 (2%)
Throw: 13
End: 32

Squirtle jumps up and uses both legs to kick the opponent away. Not a lot of knockback, but it deals decent damage and potentially gets the opponent off the level. At low percents, you can attempt to give chase with an aerial, tilt, jab, dash attack, or another grab, so it puts the opponent in a bad position. Bigger characters risk getting U-Air'd a million times if they jump, so they might not jump away at low percents--In that case, you can get another F-Throw off with little trouble. Try it to set up for more attacks at lower percents, or use it to get the opponent off of the stage. Easy!



Up-Throw – 11%
Start up: 1-15
Hit: 16 (2%)
Throw: 17
End: 38

Squirtle puts the opponent above himself, gets into his shell, and hops into the opponent. It does the most damage out of all of Squirtle's throws, and sets up well for a juggle chain. This is usually your best throw to use; when indecisive about which throw to use, you won't go wrong by using the U-Throw. It gets the opponent into the air, where Squirtle thrives. Depending on the opponent's options and fall speeds, a U-Throw can lead into a nasty frame trap, too--On characters like Bowser, you can U-Throw at lower percents and follow up with a U-Air. If they airdodge, you can do a B-Air immediately after, land the weak hit, and get another grab after that.


Down-Throw – 7%
Start up: 1-7
Hit: 8 (2%)
Throw: 9
End: 28

Squirtle violently jumps on the opponent. It has a very fast animation, and I always stomp on the ground when I use it in tournaments (I stand up when I play). This is Squirtle's universal KO move, and usually the most-feared move by opponents, and for good reason, as a grab is rather easy to get as Squirtle. While it only deals about 6% in damage, this move generally kills consistently at about 140%, regardless of character, so long as you're not sending them to the farther side of the stage, and even earlier than that on smaller characters. If your aim is to switch to Ivysaur, landing a D-Throw when the opponent has at least a bit of damage is the safest way to do it. It's a nice move to have in your back pocket.



Back-Throw – 10%
Start up: 1-14
Hit: 15 (5%)
Throw: 16
End: 36

Squirtle puts the opponent behind him and donkey-kicks them away. Pretty much the equivalent of the Forward-Throw, but in the opposite direction. Use it if you can get the opponent off the edge with it. It sends the opponent higher than the Forward-Throw, so it's more difficult to combo with at lower percentages.




Squirtle's Jab Lock setups


Jab Locks in general are hard to start, because they require your opponent to miss a ground tech, but when playing around with platforms, Squirtle has a sizeable amount of moves that help put the opponent into position. B-Air, F-Air, N-Air, and U-Air all have potential to hit a shielding opponent off of a platform when they are right next to the edge. Among those, I believe U-Air has the most "push". D-Air, while normally somewhat risky, hits multiple times, which means that it pushes the opponent more than usual when they shield, and it can shieldstab as well, so even if you don't push them off, you have a chance of damaging them, which is always good.

When you're on a platform with an opponent, F-Tilt sends the opponent straight across the ground, and will easily push them off in an unavoidable tumble animation where they will be forced to either tech or be a target for an easy jab lock. Also, when you and the opponent are both on the ground, if they don't DI a N-Air upwards, they'll pretty much have to tech, as well. A good option to keep in mind.



Squirtle's Jab Lock starters

In order to actually start a Jab Lock on a grounded opponent, Squirtle has the highest amount of options for any character in Brawl. Most commonly-known are his single jab, his second jab, and his F-Tilt. F-Tilt is not good if you want to keep the opponent next to you. Jab 1 and Jab 2 seem to have about the same amount of distance, but you can jab cancel Jab 1 more quickly, so I would recommend constantly jab-canceling the first jab and moving forward. However, with the discovery of unsweetspotted aerial locks, such as Peach's B-Air Lock, aerials were tried, and at least two of Squirtle's aerials are useful for that at some point: the unsweetspotted ("late") B-Air and the unsweetspotted ("late") N-Air. I don't know the percentage when these aerials no longer start a lock (testing would be good), but I know that they work at low percentages at least. Also, when fatigued, the aerials should work until higher percentages, which is a currently-miniscule boost to fatigued Squirtle's play. This gives you two possible options from the air and three possible options from the ground.

Now that I think about it, if the short-hop is fast enough, I think it may be possible to jab lock someone to the edge, do a short-hopped, unsweetspotted B-Air on the other side of the opponent, and repeat the jab lock to the other side. This would depend on two things: "Will the unsweetspotted B-Air hit the opponent before the lock ends?" and "Will the unsweetspotted B-Air be weak enough to continue a Jab Lock even after the damage from the first portion of the Jab Lock?"

Testing shows that what was said in the above text does not work, as Squirtle can't get the fastfalled B-Air quickly enough.



Squirtle's Jab Lock finishers

As for finishers, Squirtle has a couple of useful ones. Up-Smash is the most obvious; deals the most damage out of all of his grounded moves, and it will usually be your best killing option. Forward-Smash and Down-Smash both make for good alternatives, especially when the ceiling is somewhat high, like on Yoshi's Island or Jungle Japes. Forward-Smash deals more damage and knockback, but Down-Smash has a larger margin of error, since it has a larger hitbox and it stays out longer.

If you lock them at a low percentage, you can get an Up-Tilt, Down-Tilt or immediate U-Air and attempt to combo them from there. Keep in mind that the U-Air will only land on taller characters, though. You can grab and Up-Throw to attempt to combo as well, but that's best done from a hydrograb, as explained below.

Also, a Jab Lock sets up for a free hydrograb to the edge afterwards, which might give you an easy gimp or lots of pummels and a throw, depending on your opponent's response. However, basic psychology dictates that they'll be frustrated and attempt to get out as quickly as possible, which maximizes the chance of an easy gimp.



Jab Lock infinite...?

There is also the possibility of a Jab Lock infinite. I talked about this with a few people before, but it sort of faded into obscurity.

Watch 0:08-0:12 of this video.

As you can see, when I did my first and second jab, I went past Snake and I was able to continue the Jab Lock from the other side. If anything, this definitely shows that an infinite is possible. Since the effects of Squirtle's jab are the same no matter what part of the jab hits, it might be possible to simply single jab and walk forward more than normal before doing another hit each time; this might be enough to go through the opponent and start it from the other side.

It's not plausible, because Smash DI will push the opponent far enough to seemingly prevent you from getting far enough into them per hit to let you eventually get behind them.

However, if they do not Smash DI each hit, testing shows that this is fairly easy to do with the right timing. Even if they correctly Smash DI, we could do a late N-Air on the opposite side of them when we get to the end of the stage and hope that they miss the necessary tech so we can Jab Lock them a second time.

Maybe if we turn around mid-walk, a hit would send them in the opposite direction and counteract it? If so, a doop-walked single jab or F-Tilt backwards while on top of them might do the trick. Or, if there is an undiscovered shellshift -> jab, that could be an infinite in itself, and it would look cursed sexy.



Ivysaur



Ivysaur is widely considered to be the worst Pokémon of the three. Having terrible aerial mobility and a tether recovery/grab really does make it difficult to make good things happen. Still, for all the trouble that causes, she does have a few very good properties. Bullet Seed is in a category by itself--invincibility frames on startup, amazing range, and easily causing 30-ish% on an opponent is a godsend. Her other useful moves have unique properties--B-Air, D-Tilt, and F-Tilt all have excellent range. F-Smash has great range and is a very solid KO move. U-Smash is slow, but KOs at stupidly low percentages. A sweetspotted Up-B on the offensive can KO people at very low percentages, as well. Her projectile helps her long-range game even more, and having a tether recovery and a deceptive spike in N-Air and D-Air make her gimping game very good if you make sure you don't get hit yourself. Ivysaur gets a really bad rap for her lack of aerial mobility, but if you play outside of that, she can make short work of many characters.




Jab – 3%, 2%, 2%, 1% (last two hits repeatedly for rapid-A)
-First:
Start up: 1-6
Hit: 7-10
Jab Window: 12-29
End: 29

-Second
Start up: 1-7 (12-18 as earliest Jab1 follow-up)
Hit: 8-10 (19-20 as earliest Jab1 follow-up)
End: 29 (39 as earliest Jab1 follow-up)
-Third:
Start up: 1-11 (21-31 as earliest Jab1/Jab2 follow-up)
Hit: 12-14, 22-24 (32-34, 42-44 as earliest Jab1/Jab2 follow-up)
Jab Window: 23-32 (43-54 as earliest Jab1/Jab2 follow-up)
The last two hits of the jab will start again at the 56th frame if you hit the Attack button at any point during the Jab window.
End: 57

Ivysaur swings two vines directly forward, one after the other. Every hit has pretty good range. The first hit has decent speed, and can be used to stuff slower moves. The second hit is generally utterly terrible, as it is easy to shield or avoid even if the first jab hits, which will get you punished easily. After the first two swings, it goes into a rapid-fire swinging that cannot be shielded in-between hits. This rapid-fire portion also has slightly more range, which makes it very safe from most approaches once the rapid-fire portion starts. It makes for a decent option against opponents near or on the edge, but this is usually a move that you want to avoid.




Dash Attack - 12/10% (sweet/sour)
Start up: 1-3
Hit: 4-20 (4-11 sweet, 12-20 sour)
End: 43

Ivysaur slides on the ground. This move is powerful for a dash attack; it is fast, and it KO's reliably at about 150%, but it is unsafe when shielded and doesn't have much range. Keep it in mind when the opponent is left open, or when they are at a high percentage, but this is not nearly as spammable as Squirtle's.






Forward-Tilt – 14% (2%, 2%, 2%, 2%, 2%, 2%, 2%)
Start up: 1-5
Hit: 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18 (has knockback)
End: 41

Ivysaur leans forward and spins some leaves around. This attack is quite good in many ways; it starts quickly, deals respectable damage, has great range, hits multiple times, and is difficult to punish with good spacing. The fact that it hits multiple times makes it a wonderful move for poking shields; if the opponent's shield is anything but full, they're getting shield-poked, which makes it a wonderful follow-up to a late Back-Air. The fact that Ivysaur leans forward before using the attack helps make this move safe even when shielded; when the move is finished, Ivysaur moves back to a neutral stance quickly, which prevents shield-grabs against anyone that isn't Dedede or Charizard...and you should be able to land an easy B-Air on those shields in order to shield-poke anyway. One thing that you must take note of, however, is that it doesn't hit "on top of" Ivysaur. If you use this move while they're extremely close, they'll only take a couple hits, and you will be easy to punish...otherwise, this move is fairly spammable; always keep it in mind when you space or approach.




Up-Tilt – 7%
Start up: 1-8
Hit: 9-16
End: 34

Ivysaur pushes against the ground with vines, propelling herself upwards. I have mixed feelings about this move. It has nice range above your standing position, but Ivysaur is the hitbox, making it easy to hit Ivysaur out of this move. It doesn't deal much damage or knockback, but it is relatively fast and can catch people off-guard. Also, when you do this move, since Ivysaur is on her vines, the opponent cannot hit Ivysaur as if she was on the ground. Perhaps this could be used as a potential dodge against certain moves, but more testing should be done. This is pretty good for hitting opponents on platforms, because it's fast, but Ivysaur has more damaging options. Use the range well, but don't rely on this to stuff the opponent's aerial assault.




Down-Tilt – 7% (2%, 5%)
Start up: 1-3
Hit: 4-5, 9-10
End: 37

Ivysaur uses her whips to strike at the foe. This move is excellent; decent damage, gimp-worthy knockback, very good range, great speed, and it hits twice. The speed, combined with the fact that it hits twice, helps with shield-poking and keeps you from getting punished. This is among Ivysaur's best options when edgeguarding, and a wonderful move for spacing. When there's too little space to justify doing a RAR'd Back-Air, this is going to be your move of choice. Don't be afraid to use it often. Also, it should be noted that this move isn't nearly as fun for us on the edges of Yoshi's Island, because ledge makes it so that you must be quite close to edgeguard correctly, and this move is all about safe outranging. Keep that in mind.




Forward-Smash – 16%
Start up: 1-16
Hit: 17-19
End: 59

Ivysaur leans back and springs her body forward. This move has nice knockback; it KOs consistently in the triple digits. The range on it is pretty good, as well; Ivysaur suddenly moves quite forward during the attacking portion. Still, as a Forward-Smash, it's not very quick to come out, so you're not going to land this by throwing it out by itself. One thing that I find myself doing often is doing a Forward-Smash out of an initial dash in the opposite direction. Basically, if you are within the timing where you could do a dashdance, you can use a Forward-Smash in either direction, which is easily done by using the C-Stick. On aggressive players, you can initial dash backwards and do it, which functions sort of like a mini-dodge. It's nice to catch people off-guard, so keep that in mind.




Up-Smash – 17%
Start up: 1-25
Hit: 26-31
End: 59

Ivysaur strains for a time, and then fires an explosion of pollen (I like to think of it as Stun Spore, actually) into the air from her flower. This move is quite slow to come out, but is arguably the best "kill at ridiculously low percentages" Smash attack there is, since the animation isn't as long or elaborate as Dedede/Ike F-Smash, while it has almost as much knockback. One thing to note is that it actually doesn't do that much damage; I believe it deals 17% uncharged, but when it kills reliably at 75%, it doesn't matter that much. It doesn't have a much cooldown time, either, although you can still be punished if it misses completely. This is a move that you should learn to hit with; the sheer power is too high to ignore. The easiest way to land it is to predict an air-dodge to the ground. When you get good at timing this, it's the most satisfying attack to use, and it's a force to be reckoned with. The hitbox is also fairly high up, so you can hit opponents on some platforms, like on Battlefield. Think about that.



Down-Smash – 8%
Start up: 1-15
Hit: 16-17
End: 63

Ivysaur does a sweeping motion with vines on both sides. Terrible knockback, terrible damage (D-Tilt does more!), annoying cooldown, no sweetspot, hits once, and only hits very close to the ground. It is, in essence, a very bad D-Tilt. The only thing it has going for it is that it hits on both sides, but if you're questioning which side the opponent is going, you may as well attempt a Bullet Seed. Stay away from this move at all costs. There is currently no good use for it, to the best of my knowledge.




Neutral-Air – 14% (2%, 2%, 2%, 2%, 2%, 2%, 2%)
Start up: 1-3
Hit: 4-5, 8-9, 12-13, 16-17, 20-21, 24-25, 28-29 (has knockback)
Landing Lag: 3-35 (11 frames)
End: 40

Ivysaur spins around diagonally-downward. This move is Ivysaur's bread-and-butter in terms of combo ability. It hits multiple times, deals good damage (about 14% if all parts of it hit), has very little landing lag, and doesn't send the opponent far away on the last hit. As a multi-hit move, you should keep this in mind as a shield-poking option; that's how you safely start the various combos that stem from this move. The first few hits actually don't send the opponent anywhere to begin with. In that, it's quite easy to do a N-Air into the ground and immediately do a N-Air again. Depending on the percentage, a single full-hopped N-Air can lead into another N-Air, F-Air, B-Air, or U-Air. Platforms also increase this move's comboability. Just experiment and you'll find that you can do so much in that way.

One cool thing about Ivysaur's Neutral-Air is that the back/bottom portion of Ivysaur's Neutral-Air is a genuine spike; just move away from the opponent mid-attack and you'll land it. It's not particularly powerful, but it's usually enough to get the job done, or at least let you attempt to finish the job afterwards. It's hard to see coming, and consistently landing the spike is a great skill to learn.




Forward-Air – 12%
Start up: 1-14
Hit: 15-20
Landing Lag: 4-40 (28 frames)
End: 50

Ivysaur uses her vines as a whip in a forward arc from top to bottom. This move has deceptive range and speed, so using this to defend yourself while recovering is good. It has pretty good KO power, and will reliably kill at about 125%. If you short-hop F-Air, it will have no landing lag as long as you do the F-Air immediately after the jump. Otherwise, it has a fair amount of landing lag, so be careful about using this while close.




U-Air – 16%
Start up: 1-11
Hit: 12
Landing Lag: 2-40 (22 frames)
End: 52

Ivysaur does a quick pollen explosion from her flower. This move is quite powerful for an aerial; it reliably kills at about 100%, even on heavier characters. The range is deceptive; some of the hitbox is actually Ivysaur's body, so it's not unheard of to hit an opponent who is below you! It pushes an opponent back if they shield it, so doing it before you land is pretty safe, as long as they don't powershield. If you are in the air and chasing a recovering opponent, you can bait an air-dodge and land this move afterwards. This move is something that an opponent will fear in an air battle. Using this move causes your vertical momentum to default to "down", so you can do it out of a jump to cancel said jump, which makes it a little safer in general. This doesn't apply to momentum canceling, however.




D-Air – 10%
Start up: 1-10
Hit: 11-12
Landing Lag: 3-52 (28 frames)
End: 63

Ivysaur turns her flower towards the ground and fires a pollen explosion downwards. This move has decent knockback, and decent power. When you use it, you lose aerial mobility until you flip right-side up, so keep this in mind. The main thing to keep in mind is that this move is a Meteor Smash, but the sweetspot is the flower, not the explosion that comes out. If you land the sourspot, it sends the opponent horizontally, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but isn't as good as a Meteor Smash. This move also has a lot of landing lag, so be very careful not to do this move too late while above the stage. One nice but fairly risky tactic to keep in mind is that a short-hopped D-Air will go through platforms as long as the attack has enough time to come out. You can use this to hit opponents underneath you while you are on a platform...and if you are on a stage like Halberd or Delfino and the opponent decides to attack you from below the stage, give them a surprising hit straight down. They won't know what hit 'em.




B-Air – 5% (2%, 3%)
Start up: 1-3
Hit: 4-6, 13-15
Landing Lag: 1-45 (10 frames)
End: 45

Ivysaur swings two vines in a 270-degree arc from the top-and-behind to the bottom-and-behind. This move is arguably the best spacing move in the entire game; it has absolutely obscene range, great speed, hits twice, has virtually no landing lag, and allows you to do another move almost immediately afterwards. This move will make it a nightmare for most characters to get in on Ivysaur. It does very little damage, but when you're not getting hit, it's always a winning decision. This move also has combo potential; if you land immediately after a B-Air, you can B-Air again from another jump. If the opponent takes the move (whether it's shielded or an actual hit), you can do a F-Tilt immediately afterwards, and it will hit the opponent. B-Air -> F-Tilt is going to be your main option for shield-harassment.

Because of Ivysaur's terrible horizontal aerial mobility, the opponent's shield must be down in order to reliably and safely combo. You can accomplish this by using short-hop mindgames. A short-hopped B-Air should not be getting punished by itself, but that doesn't mean that he can't shield it and attempt to get in. To stop that, you should mix up your timings. Empty short-hops, late B-Airs, full-hop B-Airs, double-jump double B-Airs...they're going to end up shielding a lot, so it helps you set the pace and trick him into a faulty defense.




Neutral-BBullet Seed – 4+% (pop-up does 4%, each seed does ~1%, can deal up to ~60%, though ~45% is a more realistic maximum)
Start up: 1-3 (invincible during start up)
Hit: 4-5, 16-23 (constantly hitting, 7 frames at a time)
End: 85 (minimum)

(The start-up hitbox is larger when you start from the air.) You should be aiming to catch people in the stream, not with the pop-up hit. That way, they're deep in the move and must take serious damage. Since the hitbox is constantly coming out, as long as you read their ledge jump, ledge climb, or

Ivysaur hits the opponent up with an invisible force, and fires seeds up out of her flower. This move is a punisher's dream: comes out on Frame 4 (the same as many jabs), covers both sides of Ivysaur on the initial hit, and deals on average about 30%. Use this against roll spammers, spot-dodges, late air-dodges to the ground, out of a shield after they attack...basically, any time they make a mistake on the ground, you should be able to have an opening to land this move. Because the only thing the opponent can do when they are caught in this move is hold a direction and wait it out, this move can get annoying quite fast, as no one likes losing control of their character for any amount of time. Also, because it comes out so quickly, you can use this move in the middle of some multi-hit moves, such as jab combos. This move gets people flustered, so depending on the player and the situation, landing this move repeatedly can be better than a grab or Smash attack. If they can't think, they can't play.

While this sounds absolutely wonderful (and it is), it's highly punishable when you miss. If the opponent sees it coming, they can charge the Smash of their choice and leave quite a mark. You'll learn the right times to land this simply by experimenting in matches, so get to throwing it out and find out when it's fine to use it.




Forward-BRazor Leaf – 3-8% (based on projectile speed)
Start up: 1-21
Hit: 22-69
End: 50

Ivysaur throws a leaf forward as a projectile. This is rather good; it eats many projectiles and keeps going, and it's usually difficult to cancel with a normal move, so it's rather spammable. If you short-hop before throwing it, you can still move in mid-air while using the move, so short-hopping this move is usually the best way to do it. It deals minor damage, but every bit counts, and it's difficult to stop, so it adds up fairly quickly. Depending on the distance and percentage, you can grab an opponent out of the hitstun of this move. It's also a bit of a reflex for the opponent to attempt to side-dodge the leaf or your follow-up move, so attempting a pivot grab or short-hopped N-Air/Bullet Seed as a follow-up is satisfactory. Just be safe with it, and it will serve you well as a troublesome projectile.




Up-BVine Whip – 13/7-10 (sweet/sour; some parts are more "sour" than others)
Start up: 1-21
Hit: 22-25 (sweet and sour throughout; the sweetspot is closer to the tip)
End - 47
Landing Lag - 47+ (30 frames; lagless if you land before the move ends)

Ivysaur stretches a vine at an upward angle. This move is a tether recovery, so if the opponent is on the ledge, you will fall to your doom. It has a larger range than it would suggest when used on-stage, so experiment and know the exact distance and angles by heart. Ivysaur's bad aerial mobility makes her fairly easy to edgeguard compared to most characters, so learn how to properly use F-Airs, B-Airs, and Razor Leaf to clear the edge. As for using it in an offensive manner, the move is straightforward, and normally has little knockback. Decent damage, though...however, the sweetspot, which is the tip of the move, has amazing knockback, and will kill at as early as 70%. You can quickly grab and re-grab the ledge with a tether recovery to quickly regain ledge invincibility, and depending on your angle, you can hold the edge while preventing the opponent from recovering. Once again, experimenting is the best way to learn for this.



Down-B - Switches to Charizard. Back-Throw is your best option for getting the opponent away in order to switch safely. When Zero Switching, Charizard has no jumps, so don't accidentally SD while attempting to get Ivysaur out of there.



Standing Grab
Start up: 1-12
Grab: 13-14
End: 50

Ivysaur reaches out with two vines in order to grab the opponent. Very slow for a standing grab, but great range. Careful that you don't leave yourself open.



Running Grab
Start up: 1-12
Grab: 13-14
End: 49

A lunging version of the standing grab. Better range, but puts you very close to the opponent when you miss. Use your best judgement in order to tell which is better for the current situation.



Pivot Grab
Start up: 1-12
Grab: 13-14
End: 36

Ivysaur turns around and does a quick snatch at the area behind herself. This is much, much safer than your other grabs, and while it doesn't have as much range, this is generally your best option for attempting to grab an opponent. At the very least, you won't be punished for using it, so throw it out from time to time and see what happens.



Grab Pummel - 3%
Start up: 1-4
Hit: 5
End: 28

Ivysaur constricts the opponent. Decent damage, but a bit slow. Try to get as many as possible before throwing, because each hit really adds up.



Forward-Throw - 8%
Start up: 1-15
Throw: 16
End: 34

Ivysaur pushes the opponent forward with vines. Decent damage and knockback, but not a killing throw. Use this throw when it will get the opponent off the edge.



Up-Throw - 10%
Start up: 1-12
Throw: 13
End: 27

Ivysaur pushes the opponent up with vines. This throw has the most knockback, and will reliably kill after 160%. Ivysaur has a lot of potential to deal damage, but lacks general KO moves, so don't forget this.



Down-Throw - 10%
Start up: 1-18
Throw: 19
End: 34

Ivysaur slams the opponent against the ground with vines. It pops the opponent up and forward, and doesn't have a lot of knockback, so it can be a decent option for following up. If the opponent is near the edge, he'll probably DI toward you, which allows you to catch him in Bullet Seed after a D-Throw.



Back-Throw - 10%
Start up 1-17
Throw: 18
End: 33

End: Ivysaur slings the opponent backwards. This throw ends quite quickly after the throw and has pretty good knockback. Use this throw when it will get the opponent off the stage.


Tether tricks

Some points about Ivysaur's Up-B...a universal note is that any character that grabs the ledge with a tether grab gets 23 invincibility frames--they have to stay on the ledge until frame 3. Any character not named Pikachu gets 46, but they have to hold onto the ledge until frame 26, which means that everyone gets 20 to play around with, but we get them almost instantly.

As such, tether recoveries allow you to have maximum control over the edge (and, consequently, edgehogging). I feel that this has been a somewhat unexplored area of Ivysaur's game, as a free twenty invincibility frames without making them very obvious gives us time to have many different hitboxes out while remaining completely safe. We can do any of our aerials and Bullet Seed, and we can do an offensive Up-B or Razor Leaf with only one frame of vulnerability before attacking.

Another point of importance is that Ivysaur's tether grab has the greatest range, angle-wise, of tether grab in the entire game. You can grab the ledge at almost a full-hop's range immediately up from the ledge, which allows you to grab the edge while preventing yourself from being a target by someone's recovery move. This is a great way to gimp characters with quick diagonal recoveries, like Marth and Mario.

Also, like all tether recoveries, you can cancel the tether by tapping Down on the Control Stick. The reason that this is at all useful is because when Ivysaur does a tether from immediately above the ledge, she gets more height than a single full-hop would give her, so she can attack in places that were originally too far to touch before. Also, the tether animation is incredibly quick, and there is no tether cancel animation, so it's really hard to see what's coming if you've never seen such a thing before.




Charizard




Charizard gets a lot of mixed reviews. His quick, powerful attacks are similar to DK's in that your best bet is to let your opponent come to you while you abuse your massive range. He has two amazing projectiles, many quick attacks and excellent grounded movement speed, an astounding amount of power, the second longest non-tether grab, is a heavyweight, two mid-air jumps, and is a gimping machine. In that, he's also very simple to play. His greatest problem is a combination of his middling aerial mobility, situational aerials, and gigantic size--once the opponent has you above him, it's really easy for him to abuse these traits to keep you there, where you no longer have access to most of your repetoire. Stay near the ground when you can, and most opponents should have a lot of trouble getting in, let alone KOing you while you hit them hard and fast.




Jab – 13% (3%, 4%, 6%)
Jab1 start up: 1-3
Hit: 4-6
Jab Window: unknown start, lasts a loooong time
End: 22
(Frame data is only available for Jab1, because I am incompetent)

Charizard swipes at the opponent with his tiny dinosaur arms up to three times. This thing is not very good. Frame 4 is relatively slow for a jab, and the space in-between jabs is pretty large, as well. If you're having trouble with people shielding Squirtle's jab combo, then this will be even worse for you. Still, it does decent damage and it has okay range. Spamming the A button makes the combo come out much more quickly than if you hold the button, so be aware of that. One nice thing to note is that you can cancel the second jab and land many quick attacks, like another jab combo, a grab, an Up-Smash, or a sweetspotted D-Tilt, at mid-to-high percents. The first jab can cause a jab lock, but the timing is very specific--In order for it to work, you have to hit the opponent in the beginning of his pratfall. This means that you can only get one jab, but this should allow you to get a 45% Rock Smash or a Forward-Smash if you land the jab.




Dash Attack - 11/9% (sweet/sour)
Start up: 1-9
Hit: 10-18 (10-12 sweet, 13-18 sour)
End: 44

Charizard kicks straight forward with one of his legs, Big Boot-style. This move is slow, deals little knockback, leaves you terribly open when shielded, and is not worth the damage no matter when it's used. Its only practical use is attempting to hit an opponent who is attempting to come over the ledge, and even then, it's usually the worst possible option. If it's any consolation, the hitbox stays out for a decent while, but so do most dash attacks. Charizard leans back when he does this attack, so keep this in mind. Try to avoid using this move much, if at all.




Forward-Tilt – 12/11% (sweet/sour, sweetspot is at the tip)
Start up: 1-11
Hit: 12-14
End: 41

Charizard swings his body and, consequently, his tail, horizontally at the opponent. It's not a spammable move, as it has a fairly large cooldown and the startup isn't great. However, it has decent knockback, damage, power, and wonderful range. Keep that range in mind when you're looking for a move to keep the opponent at bay. You can also angle this move up or down--the down-angled version can hit opponents on the ledge, and the up-angled version helps to deal with some short-hop approaches.




Up-Tilt – 8%
Start up: 1-8
Hit: 9-16
End: 33

Charizard performs a small hop with his wings pointing straight upward to pierce the opponent. This move is an amazing anti-air attack, as it has great range and is fast to start and ends quickly. The knockback is decent and the damage is solid. It covers a pretty large area on top of you, which makes it very difficult for any opponent to come in on you from straight above. It's also pretty good for juggling, so between this move, U-Air, and U-Smash, many opponents should have trouble getting down from the air against you.




Down-Tilt – 12%
Start up: 1-7
Hit: 8-9
End: 27

Charizard crouches low and stabs forward with a closed mouth. This move is pretty much anything you could ask for in a KO-inducing tilt--amazing knockback (when sweetspotted), quick to start, quick to end, nice damage, and great range. Since Charizard starts the move by leaning back, he can dodge attacks while doing it (as a result, it's a solid option as an attack after a grab-release). It's a great follow-up for any short-hopped aerial and will keep you safe when used intelligently.




Forward-Smash – 22% (5%, 17%)
Start up: 1-21
Hit: 22-24, 26-29 (has knockback)
Invincibility: 22-26
End: 68

Charizard leans back, tucks his head in, and does a horizontal sweeping headbutt. This move is slow, even for a Smash, but its knockback and damage potential is enormous. Since Charizard moves back before doing the attack, it can be used to dodge and counter when you read an opponent well. This move also times perfectly to punish all spotdodges when used at the same time, so keep that in mind. This has great range, but is pretty punishable, so make sure this lands when you throw it out.




Up-Smash – 16% (5%, 11%)
Start up: 1-5
Hit: 6-12, 17-22 (has knockback)
End: 48

Charizard swings his wings back and forth for two hits above him. The hitbox is up and slightly in front of Charizard, so it covers you well in tandem with U-Tilt. There's nice range in this. It's also very fast start-up wise, especially for a Smash, so use that to your advantage. This is one of Charizard's most reliable KO moves. Since it hits twice, it's a good option for when the opponent is on a platform, as the first hit can knock an opponent off.




D-Smash – 16%
Start up: 1-13
Hit: 14-16
End: 60

Charizard slams the ground with a violent jump, creating a shockwave in the ground around him. This move has decent knockback and damage, although it is a bit slow. The hitbox travels along the ground; that can be a good thing (good for shield-stabbing) or a bad thing (can't hit a jumping opponent) depending on the situation. It covers both sides well and it has decent range. It's still far from spammable, but it can help you deal with dodges in general fairly well.




Neutral-Air – 12/9% (sweet/sour, tail tip is the sweetspot)
Start up: 1-7
Hit: 8-28
Landing Lag: 4-31 (22 frames)
End: 59

Charizard does a frontflip, attacking the opponent with his whole body. This move stays out for a while and deals decent damage--standard fare for a Neutral-Air. Not much KO potential, and the move is only lagless when done immediately. Still, it's a good move to read air-dodges with, and it's fairly safe. Keep in mind that the end of the animation takes a while, so if you do it in the air, you won't be able to do anything else for a while.



Forward-Air – 11% (4%, 3%, 2%, 2%)
Hit: 9 (has knockback), 11 (has knockback), 13, 15-26
Landing Lag: 6-26 (32 frames)
End: 47

Charizard flaps his wings forward and breathes out embers. This move has amazing gimping potential, as the sweetspot's knockback is always quite good, even at low percents. This move is lagless when used immediately from a short-hop, and is relatively safe as such. Doesn't do a lot of damage, but it will always put the opponent in a bad position, so don't be afraid to throw it out and attempt an easy gimp.




Back-Air – 14/12% (5%, 9/7% [sweet/sour])
Hit: 7-8, 10-12 (has knockback)
Landing Lag: 4-25 (22 frames)
End: 41

Charizard quickly swings his tail horizontally behind himself. This is one of Charizard's premier KO moves--very fast, and the sweetspot has great knockback, range and deals heavy damage. Also, the move hits twice--it helps because if the opponent is near the edge of a platform, the first hit will knock them off and the second (more damaging one) will hurt them even if they shield the first one. Something to note is that the first hit is a weak spike, so, while you won't be gimping people often, it can work in your favor from time to time.




Up-Air – 10/7% (sweet/sour)
Start up: 1-5
Hit: 6-27 (6-8 sweet, 9-27 sour)
Landing Lag: 6-38 (22 frames)
End: 45

Charizard sticks his head up in the air in a stiff fashion. This move isn't good for its knockback, but because it stays out for twenty-one frames, it is easy to hit people at the vulnerable part of their spotdodge with this. It's a great juggle move as a result, and should give many opponents trouble when combined with your two double-jumps. Don't be afraid to attempt a juggle with this if your opponent prefers to be offensive when recovering from above.




Down-Air – 14%
Start up: 1-17
Hit: 18-20
Landing Lag: 5-41 (35 frames)
End: 51

Charizard stomps down from above. This is among the more powerful Meteor Smashes in the game--it's a good gimping move. It's fairly slow, though, so it's usually not easy to land. However, there is a ridiculous disjointed hitbox below Charizard's feet, so that helps it remain safe. You can actually full-hop a D-Air and hit most characters, regardless of what it looks like, so that's a good thing to throw out from time to time. Between this move and your F-Air, gimps should come naturally for you.




Neutral-BFlamethrower -
Start up: 1-18
Hit: 19-25 (reiterating every 6 frames)
End: 67 (minimum)
Finish Lag: 25 (how many frames after you let go of Special)

Charizard breathes fire in front of himself. This move is a big part of Charizard's spacing game, and shuts down many characters' approach game by itself. It lasts as long as you hold the button, although the longer you hold it, the smaller the flames become. You can aim the direction of the fire stream by holding up or down. Holding up is usually the best course of action, to maximize the area you cover. When used in short bursts, you should almost never get punished for using this. If the opponent attempts to Smash DI toward you, just keep using the move--you're going to get punished if they get behind you, and you're going to get punished if you stop using Neutral-B, so you may as well maximize the damage dealt to the opponent. Also, using this on an off-stage opponent has many merits--they can't easily jump out (and sometimes at all!), so they're guaranteed to take a ton of damage in that way. If you jump out to edgeguard, you can use Flamethrower to "eat" their double-jump if they try to read your spike attempt and jump over you. Give it a thought.




Forward-BRock Smash – 45% (18%, 3%, 3%, 3%, 3%, 3%, 3%, 3%, 3%, 3%)
Start up: 1-23
Hit: 24-26 (has knockback), 28-50 (copious amounts of rock)
End: 61

Charizard is obviously the best character in the game, because he has four Smash Attacks rather than three. Seriously, my favorite character in the game is Rock Smash.

Now that I'm done with that, I'm going to really explain this move. Charizard grabs a rock (from...somewhere--don't question it) and breaks it with a headbutt. The rock itself is a disjointed object that can be broken by any attack (which is why the headbutt portion breaks it); when broken, the rock splits into NINE different shards in the immediate area. The headbutt does about eighteen damage, but if you can get the shards to hit as well, this move has the potential to deal FORTY-FIVE PERCENT. JESUS ****. The headbutt has incredible KO potential, and because the rocks act as small projectiles, it's relatively safe to spam. When an opponent hits the rock (but not Charizard), the shards will immediately fly at them, and since the rock comes out on Frame 3, it can function as a devastating counter of sorts. If the opponent's shield is somewhat small, this will usually get through. However, you WILL get punished if it's shielded completely, so don't think it's the ultimate approach/defense. A B-reversed Rock Smash can trick an opponent into running into it. Find ways to throw this move in--it's phenomenal.




Up-BFly – 17% (5%, 2%, 2%, 2%, 2%, 4%)
Super Armor: 4-16
Hit: 9; 16-17, 19-20, 22-23, 25-26, 27-28 (has knockback)
Landing Lag: 30
End: 35

Charizard flies upward, spinning as he goes. This move has super armor frames on Frame 4 and beyond. It has good knockback and deals nice damage--combined with two double-jumps, Charizard has a solid recovery in this. Because of the super armor, it's more difficult to get gimped, and you can use it as an anti-air in itself. Also, if you anticipate certain moves, you can super-armor through them. It's just asking to get punished if you don't hit the opponent, though, so be careful with that.



Down-B - Switches to Squirtle. A Down-Throw is the best way to get your opponent away in order to switch safely. When Zero Switching, Squirtle has two mid-air jumps, so be sure to take advantage of it.



Standing Grab
Start up: 1-5
Grab: 6-8
End: 30

Charizard's standing grab has amazing range--he is among the few characters that can do a standing grab on the opponent after a grab-release without having to move forward at all. Frame 6 is standard and awesome.



Running Grab
Start up: 1-7
Grab: 8-10
End: 38

Frame 8, but, otherwise the same thing. Why the hell not?



Pivot Grab
Start up: 1-9
Pivot grab: 10-11
End: 36

Safe, but, Charizard is actually the only character whose grab range doesn't increase during a pivot grab.



Grab Pummel - 2%
Start up: 1
Hit: 2
End: 16

Charizard scratches the opponent with his face. (Nuzzle-nuzzle-nuzzle.) Every little bit helps, and if you're going for a grab-release, you'll need to do it. Charizard can prevent an air-release all the time with a constant pummeling, so that's good.



Forward-Throw – 10%
Start up: 1-39
Throw: 40
End: 60

Charizard grabs the opponent in his mouth, swings the opponent and throws him forward. Not much KO potential, but it deals decent damage and is a good option when it will get the opponent off the stage. Generally sends the opponent at a 45-degree angle.



Back-Throw – 10%
Start up : 1-15
Throw: 16
End: 32

Charizard slings the opponent over his shoulder. About the same damage as the Forward-Throw, but is slightly stronger and sends the opponent slightly higher up. You can use this to attempt to follow up with F-Air or a grab pretty easily at low percents. If you throw the opponent off the stage, the gimping properties of F-Air will stop someone attempting to mid-air jump after the throw, and if they prefer to go low, you can D-Air them and get the gimp that way. Scary mix-up.



Up-Throw – 11%
Start up: 1-28
Hit: 29 (8%)
Throw: 30
End: 50

Charizard puts the opponent on his mouth and hits them upward. This is Charizard's most damaging throw, and sets up well for juggles. It will KO at about 170%.


Down-Throw – 6%
Start up: 1-22
Hit: 23-50 (at various intervals, 1% each hit)
Throw: 52
End: 83

Charizard puts the opponent on the ground and breathes fire on them. Somehow, this move deals the least amount of damage (by far) and deals the most knockback. If you're near the edge, it will KO the opponent at about 150% or so. Not something to rely on, but it's something. It's also your best option if you want to switch to Squirtle, especially because your grab range is excellent.



Grab-Release Shenanigans

Charizard gets out of a grab on frame 30, like (almost) everyone. The good options are as follows--

Jab. Frame 4 isn't very good for a jab, but it's not terrible, either. The important thing is, it beats any option that isn't another jab or a stupidly-fast move (like Ivysaur's Bullet Seed or Wolf's Down-B). Since some people like to use a tilt or grab, it's a decent option. Also, because it's three hits, it can cancel quickly if they attempt to rolling dodge, and you can still land a hit after an immediate spot-dodge if they do that.

Rock Smash. It is the ultimate spot-dodge punish (damage-wise, at least), so for people that are looking to avoid a hit and retaliate quickly, this does a real number on them. Also, the rock's hitbox is out on Frame 3, so almost all jabs (with the exception of a few characters, like Peach and Squirtle) will break the rock and take heavy damage. If their jab doesn't have much range, they might take the headbutt portion and go flying, too! Also, if they roll towards you, unless they get great distance on their forward roll, the shards could hit them and prevent you from being punished. You can still get grabbed, but many characters don't have the grab range to immediately grab after a grab release, so use that to your advantage.

Grab. It comes out on Frame 6, which is the standard (and also the best), so it's a decent option when faced with an opponent that likes to shield after a grab-release. Charizard is one of a select few characters that can grab an opponent after a grab-release without having to move, so most people don't see it coming. It would only net you a few extra pummels, but it resets the grab-release, which can be a deadly mindgame when used well. This also helps with diminishing returns, and any extra bit of damage helps. It's easily stopped by a quick jab or tilt, so be careful against more offensive players. Also, since Ness and Lucas get out on frame 6, you can re-grab them all the time, although you have to do a running grab on Lucas. You inch forward every time, though, so it's not an infinite, but it's easy damage, and you get a guaranteed Down-Tilt as well, so you can net an easy KO from a grab that way.

Down-Tilt. It comes out on Frame 8, which is slow compared to your other options, but Charizard leans back during the animation, which can prove to be a solid dodge-and-counter move on anyone who was expecting to have just enough range to punish you. The whole move ends on Frame 27, so even if the opponent dodges the attack, you're only at a disadvantage by a couple of frames at worst, so you won't be punished too badly. This move also has great killing potential especially if they don't see it coming, so that's a thought.

Forward-Smash. It comes out on Frame 22 and the first hitbox stays out until Frame 24, which would normally be considered atrocious as a grab-release option, but when you take into account that it punishes every spot-dodge perfectly (the best ones, like Link/Falco, end on Frame 22, while a majority of the cast end on Frame 25--either way, invulnerability ends on Frame 20 for pretty much everyone) and the fact that it deals obscene damage and knockback, this suddenly becomes much more viable than anyone would've originally assumed. Also, Charizard leans back during the animation, and even more so than with D-Tilt, so if they do a laggy move, you can punish with this. It might cause some whiffed grabs to get punished, and if some character roll behind you, they'll usually get knocked away a bit by the first, less-damaging hit of the Forward-Smash, which helps cover you. Also, one thing I like to do is initial dash backwards and immediately do a Forward-Smash, which creates even greater distance and can be useful, although it is situational.



Credit goes to Card, the creator of the first Pokémon Trainer guide, for many convenient move screenshots, as well as Shaya, creator of the frame data thread for Pokémon Trainer.
 

TheReflexWonder

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All I really did was put together my old writings, add a small amount, and put them in one convenient place.

Still, expect regular updates, and expect it to look much nicer in time.
 

choknater

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great writeup

guides like this really help us play to a character's strengths. i didn't know ivy's bair was that reliable/spammable, i should use it more
 

Miles.

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great writeup

guides like this really help us play to a character's strengths. i didn't know ivy's bair was that reliable/spammable, i should use it more
cmon chok step it up.

its long and disjointed you can autocancel it after the first or second hit.

****.
 

Zigsta

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Awesome, Reflex. :D

...Except for the rival from G/S/C. That dude's such a prick.
 

goodkid

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This guide will be great, looking forward to see everything completed. Oh, and add a section on reading/mindgaming opponents if you haven't planned it already. I'm sure it will definitely teach players what it takes to reach a high-level and increase the amount of good players using PT.
 

CoonTail

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Great guide reflex a most needed thread on this page, outside of a full squirtle hydroplaning guide. The only issue I see is you talk about some moves angled up and down but not all.

-Squirtles f-tilt tilted up is very good on big chars because it smacks them in the face so if their shield is diminished you can hit through it
-Ivy's f-smash tilted down can hit opponents off the edge and tilted up can hit people like MK and Ike out of their up-b's
-lastly squirtles d-smash has great capability of setting up a gimp or even gimping a character when hitting someone on the edge or getting up from it. Im very close to certain that d-smash can hit someone on the edge and if it does its angling is down and out which is the definition of gimping angles from attacks.

Not trying to critique just add some info sorry if this wasnt included for a reason. Either way awesome guide and awesome job reflex theres a reason we need you on these boards and this is it.
 

Bestiarius

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Yeah, what they all said. You're our champion Reflex, and we need you. About time that the best PT made a good guide to the character. Thanks!
 

Tien2500

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So a question on Charizard. Does his pummel actually force ground releases 100% of the time? I thought it came close but there was still a small chance of an air break.

Also it should be noted in the guide that BS can be DIed out of on the initial hit.

As for suggestions I'd love a nice detailed section discussing Charizard's grab release options and as much info on safely getting back to the edge with Ivy as possible. And if you/anyone else has a way to obtain reliable/exact frame data (how do people get this anyway?) then that would be great to have in one place. I've seen bits of frame data here and that but its scattered.
 

T-block

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I believe Charizard can force ground releases 100%. Squirtle's has a small chance of air break. I've never seen frame data confirmation though. I know Ness has air broken against my Charizard before, but I always assumed I just messed up lol
 

Steeler

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charizard can force it 100%

i think there can be weird exceptions like if you are on a slope
 

Miles.

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I believe Charizard can force ground releases 100%. Squirtle's has a small chance of air break. I've never seen frame data confirmation though. I know Ness has air broken against my Charizard before, but I always assumed I just messed up lol
please do not make statements about which you know nothing about, it will confuse people.
 

TheReflexWonder

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great writeup

guides like this really help us play to a character's strengths. i didn't know ivy's bair was that reliable/spammable, i should use it more
Oh, yeah--B-Air all day.

looks great Reflex. It will be worth reading when complete
It's worth reading now! :laugh:

Awesome, Reflex. :D

...Except for the rival from G/S/C. That dude's such a prick.
Heh, well, then, it's a shame that I decided to associate myself with the character. He gets nicer later, at least.

This guide will be great, looking forward to see everything completed. Oh, and add a section on reading/mindgaming opponents if you haven't planned it already. I'm sure it will definitely teach players what it takes to reach a high-level and increase the amount of good players using PT.
That's what it's here for. I'd like to see the community benefit and grow.

Great guide reflex a most needed thread on this page, outside of a full squirtle hydroplaning guide. The only issue I see is you talk about some moves angled up and down but not all.

-Squirtles f-tilt tilted up is very good on big chars because it smacks them in the face so if their shield is diminished you can hit through it
-Ivy's f-smash tilted down can hit opponents off the edge and tilted up can hit people like MK and Ike out of their up-b's
-lastly squirtles d-smash has great capability of setting up a gimp or even gimping a character when hitting someone on the edge or getting up from it. Im very close to certain that d-smash can hit someone on the edge and if it does its angling is down and out which is the definition of gimping angles from attacks.

Not trying to critique just add some info sorry if this wasnt included for a reason. Either way awesome guide and awesome job reflex theres a reason we need you on these boards and this is it.
Good points. I could use all the critiquing you can give me--I'm far from infallible, after all.

Also it should be noted in the guide that BS can be DIed out of on the initial hit.

As for suggestions I'd love a nice detailed section discussing Charizard's grab release options and as much info on safely getting back to the edge with Ivy as possible. And if you/anyone else has a way to obtain reliable/exact frame data (how do people get this anyway?) then that would be great to have in one place. I've seen bits of frame data here and that but its scattered.
That's right. I'll get on that soon enough.

Also, it mentions the frame data thread in the beginning of the OP, and it has a link...

Maybe you should add something about Charizard's jab lock (or lack thereof).
Same for Squirtle's 3 locks (jab, utilt, & ftilt).
That's good, too.
 

Zigsta

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Heh, well, then, it's a shame that I decided to associate myself with the character. He gets nicer later, at least.
Well, it could be worse. You could have associated yourself with Paul.

I'll just pretend you're talking about Silver from the manga and not Silver the rival from the games, then. :p
 

TheReflexWonder

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Is it my job to put all the advanced technique stuff, frame data, and the like into this guide, too?

I was going to anyway, but...
 

Bestiarius

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@ reflex: please do!

@ miles: c'mon, play nice & tell t-block how he's wrong :)
btw, are you ok? You've told three threads to be deleted and you just seem to be in a bad mood.
 

TheReflexWonder

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Nice guide Reflex.
Yeah, and it's pretty barren so far. I have a lot to cover still--I just figured that if I put this here, I'd have the motivation to continue.

Plus, even this much could benefit people.

Thanks for the kind words, everyone.
 

Zigsta

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Reflex, for some reason your sentence cuts off at the end of your discussion on Ivysaur's up air. There's also no pivot grab discussed for both Squirtle and Ivysaur.
 

Bomber7

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So just to get this straight: is this going to be like a universal guide or something that will be the counterpart of the one we already have (only this one will be better and discuss more game play than actual frame data and other non battle like items of info).
 

TheReflexWonder

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So just to get this straight: is this going to be like a universal guide or something that will be the counterpart of the one we already have (only this one will be better and discuss more game play than actual frame data and other non battle like items of info).
This should replace the incredibly-outdated one that Card wrote ages ago.

If I do this correctly, we should have no reason for the old guide, a frame data thread, or an advanced techniques thread, at the very least. It should also cut down on the amount of insignificant threads that are made, such as "Can you DI out of Bullet Seed?" That sort of thing.
 

Bomber7

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This should replace the incredibly-outdated one that Card wrote ages ago.

If I do this correctly, we should have no reason for the old guide, a frame data thread, or an advanced techniques thread, at the very least. It should also cut down on the amount of insignificant threads that are made, such as "Can you DI out of Bullet Seed?" That sort of thing.
Well once I complete my Starter thread you can add the link or something to the guide. It's alot of info to take in as well as copy and paste so I figure posting the link would probably be best. But yea I'm really looking forward to seeing this completed, it will be like 1 million times better than Card's thread because it will have his information and so much much more.
 

Steeler

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reflex are you going to take shaya's frame data and put it here or update it with your own work?
 

Miles.

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Rocksmash comes out in 3 frames?!?

WOW.


Also Luis, I think its worth mentioning (among the list of other things you named) that you can Jab Cancel into UpSmash.
 

Zigsta

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Something else that would be very helpful would be to include a list of all known chaingrabs on each Pokemon that we should watch out for.
 

Bomber7

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Something else that would be very helpful would be to include a list of all known chaingrabs on each Pokemon that we should watch out for.
agreed. XD This is cool, a universal guide that has everything you need to know (or close to it)
 
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