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Lucario vs. Sheik (23) Export

phi1ny3

Not the Mama
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
9,649
Location
in my SCIENCE! lab
Sheik


Matchup:

60:40

General info:
ahhh, luc is pretty tough! hard to get close with sheik... he has a natural priority advantage with his disjointed hitboxes and stuff... tough battle for sheik >_< i know sheik is fast but... its not like lucario is slow ahhh

needles help, esp. with aura sphere, but they both go through each other so u dont wanna get hit by fully charged aura sphere while throwing a single needle :(

hmm other than that, i think its 55:45 or 60:40 lucario's advantage, if only because lucario has a hitbox advantage. it's a very close range battle so it's kinda hard to theorize





What to avoid:

SHEIK:

What moves or tactics should we watch out for?
-Ftilt: It's one of her most used moves and for good reason. It's a combo starter...heck, it combos into itself! Most characters can get ftilt locked into a very high percent and the finished off with a different move. Fortunately, it doesn't work very well on Lucario, even at low percents. Still, a Sheik might use this for some quick damage.

-Uair: The move is an okay juggler and a Sheik can try to chase you in the air with it. You shouldn't die from it unless you are at a VERY high percent. Lucario's dair should stop it.

-Fair: A possible kill move at higher percents because of the trajectory it prodcues without DI. A decent edgeguard move and can be done multiple times and comes out fast. It has to be sweetspotted for maximum effect.

Bair: A sex kick, like her nair, but probably better. An okay edgeguard move.

-Usmash: This is one of her main killing moves. However, it has to be sweetspotted in order to kill early. Otherwise, it won't do much. Sheik has a pretty good DACUS, so if you see a Sheik far away from you and you're at high percents, be wary of a possible DACUS attempt. Fortunately, you can usually S/DI the first hit of her DACUS and avoid the second hit. Also be aware of OoS attempts if you above her.

-Needles: Ah, these were mega annoying in Melee. While they are still annoying in Brawl, they are slightly less versatile. However, they can still be used to annoy and to edgeguard. I believe they can cancel out AS, but I could be wrong.

-Chain: Hey, this move actually has a use now! Most Sheiks will use this as their main recovery move, as opposed to Vanish. It functions as a tether recovery, so treat it as such and keep in mind possible edgeguard mindgames with it. Also, know what the Chain Jacket glitch comes from this move. But if you see a Sheik doing the glitch, just throw a fully charged Aura Sphere. It should go through IIRC.

-Vanish: It's supposed to be a recovery move, but very few Sheiks use it unless they have no other choice. It has some landing lag, can be hard to aim/sweetspot, and doesn't cover much distance. However, Sheiks will also use this move as a kill move. So if you see this move while onstage, don't go near her. Note that there is a secondary "wind" hitbox when she reappears that slightly pushes people away.

-Transform: Changes her to Zelda. But it's very rare to see someone main both...

-Wallcling and Crawl: Keep this in mind.













How to win:
Do you feel Lucario has an advantage in any particular scenario of this matchup?
-Lucario wins in the range department. Use this to your advantage.
-Since Sheik has trouble killing, you should be living super long for the most part. I've lived to over 200%, but normal average is probably 150-160%. And since Sheik can't kill early reliably, Lucario will probably get close to max Aura very frequently. Use this to your advantage!
-Sheik is overall light. Don't be surprised to see her die from a fsmash around 100%, maybe less!
-If you see a Sheik trying to recover, grab the edge. Most Sheiks will try to use the Chain, and if it misses they will either plummet to their death because of the lag or be forced to use Vanish (which has terrible range). Either way, the Sheik is usually at a terrible disadvantage.

Do you feel the opponent can shut down aspects of Lucario's game?
-Sheiks can use Needles to interrupt AS charges and just to annoy. Don't get pressured by them.
-Don't pressure yourself in the matchup. You should almost always outlast the Sheik.






Helpful tips:
I just ftilt twice to her standard finishers.....utilt or nair. I dont like taking a dair to the face.
^Obviously this is from Sheik's perspective.

Shiek can still tilt lock Lucario, difference is she can't do it like she can with Snake and others.

Shiek still has to get into range, so she will bait with needles and other such moves. Lucario's range makes it really hard for her to get in.

Shiek should be 60:40 Lucario. It's the same reason Lucario has trouble with Marth, it's the range on the attack that make it a b*tch to get in on them.
What moves or tactics should we try to enforce in this match up?
-Sheik lacks range for the most part, so you can outspace her with a majority of Lucario's moves.
-Since she has very little range, some Sheiks might have trouble approaching. Keep this in mind.
-She is light and somewhat fast faller.
-She is kind of fast, and her moves come out kind of fast.




Stages:
Counterpicks? What to avoid and what to enforce?
-Ideally, you want to pick anything with a huge ceiling or without edges that can be tethered.
-Neutrals: I'm actually at a loss here. I guess BF would be a not so good choice if you aren't comfortable with platform games. PS1 would be a bad choice because of low ceiling. Honestly, I don't think she has an exceptionally good neutral.
-Counterpick: Most Sheiks will try to pick a stage that has a low ceiling and no walls for Lucario to wallcling recovery. Halberd fits this profile, but your experience may vary. Once again, I can't really think of a good Sheik stage...
-You should try counterpicking a stage that has no edge to tether onto. Frigate seems like a good choice. I guess avoid Norfair because it gives Sheik plenty of options for recovery and avoid Pirate Ship because it protects her recovery weakness.



Disclaimer: This thread is made for the sole purpose of keeping matchup discussing clean and organized. If people wish to discuss a past matchup, they may do so in this thread without cluttering the current discussion.
 

mars16

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 11, 2009
Messages
1,087
Location
Columbus Ohio
3DS FC
5429-8906-2115
Sheik: Smooth mover, not that strong.

Lucario: Gets stronger the more damage, starts off with weak attacks.


Luc vs Sh
60 : 40
 
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