ROB Official Match-up Discussion: Lucas

So...

Dull Razer is a little bit late, Fishy created the ROB Dittos Discussion Thread and we usually discuss 2 Match-ups at the same time. That's why i'm creating this Thread. Besides, we can't stop discussing =]


ROB's Advantages:

ROB's Disadvantages:

Opponent's Advantages:

Opponent's Disadvantages:

What ROB should try to do:

How opponent can stop it:

What Opponent should be trying to do:

How ROB can stop it:

Counterpicks (what ROB should pick/ What opponent will pick {If you're someone contributing from another board})
Bans (what ROB should ban 1 via stage strike, 1 via personal ban)
Preferred Neutral (what ROB wants/ What opponent wants {If you're someone contributing from another board})

Ratio:

So guys, we have some extra information about this Match-up:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=247097

It's a nice way to rack up some damage at the beginnig of the match, but then ampering should be Lucas best option. I'll now post my opinion:


ROB's Advantages:
Gimp possibilities
Good EG options

ROB's Disadvantages:
Big Targed
None camping possibilities because of Lucas' Down B and Fsmash
Weak when above Lucas

Opponent's Advantages:
Good Camp/Spam game
Avoid ROB's camping
****ing good Pivot Grab

Opponent's Disadvantages:
Weak off-stage
Easy to EG

What ROB should try to do:
Play close to Lucas
Avoid being above him
PS Lucas' Side B
Take Lucas Off-stage and rack up some damage/gimp

How to do it:
Approaching correclty
Avoid laggy attacks
Grab/Fair string so as to take him off-stage
EG Lucas' Up B with Laser

How opponent can stop it:
Camp
Try to avoid ROB's approaches with Pivot Grabs, for example
Uairs when bellow ROB so as to rack up damage

What Opponent should be trying to do:
Take advantage of ROB's mistakes
EG with Dsmash
Camp with the annoying Side B
Combo with aerials when ROB approaches
Fsmash the Gyro

How they'll do it:
Take ROB above him(especially with Dthrow>Utilt)
Space well and avoid sily mistakes
Get far from ROB with PK Fire

How ROB can stop it:
Approach well with Dash>Shield and use OoS attacks
Never let Lucas to take the match's control

Counterpicks:

ROB --> Frigate(Gimps and it's a short stage), Smashville(short stage and easy gimps)
Lucas --> Norfair(Many edges and it's easy to take ROB above him), Battlefield(Plattforms helps Lucas to take ROB above him)

Bans:

ROB --> Norfair
Lucas --> Frigate

Preferred Neutral:

ROB --> Smashville
Lucas --> BF/FD


Ratio: ROB 55:45 Lucas because of ROB's gimping possibilities

Ok, in my opinion, this matchup can be hella annoying just cause Lucas is super mobile which can help him keep up the pressure when he starts it, not to mention ROB is a big target. He's fairly prone to trading hits with ROB's less disjointed self and he also KOs earlier. Energy projectile camping Lucas is usually not good except at 0% or if you're punishing his lag.

At any rate, you want to keep yourself grounded (unless you're going for the N-air KO) since your ground game is better than his and because you don't want your floaty self randomly falling into one of his Smashes. Make sure you don't spotdodge into his Down-smash though.

Oh and of course, edgeguarding him is obvious as he starts PK Thunder, although he generally goes a little too far to be easily gimped.

TheMike said:

Preferred Neutral:

ROB --> Smashville
Lucas --> BF/FD

Click to expand...

IMO, R.O.B. does well on Yoshi's as a neutral and CP. Shy-guys can eff their recovery so hard. And just simply get in the way of their up+b. SV allows Lucas players to have their downsmash on platforms shennanigans which can be easily avoided, but still a pain to forget about and walk into. Depending on slope of platform, this is less of a problem on YI. Main point, shy-guys, lol.

I would rather take Lucas to BF than Smashville for sure. BF platforms are easier to punish underneath and protects ROBs weakpoints. Lucas's Dsmash on the moving platform can be pretty nasty.

Also ban Brinstar. Seriously it's way worse than norfair. The stage is so small Lucas's Fsmash/Usmash kills ridiculously early.

sneakytako said:

I would rather take Lucas to BF than Smashville for sure. BF platforms are easier to punish underneath and protects ROBs weakpoints. Lucas's Dsmash on the moving platform can be pretty nasty.

Also ban Brinstar. Seriously it's way worse than norfair. The stage is so small Lucas's Fsmash/Usmash kills ridiculously early.

Click to expand...

Ahh yu su beepin sneaky!
Actually, me no like bf at all against Lucas.
Semi-low ceiling (for lame upsmash kills) and with such a small length of a stage to work with, they can control a good deal by simply downsmashing the platforms. & that can get yucky with the way the priority of that attack works. I just don't like either stage.
FD + YI for me.

Ask Tyr's opinion about YI, I'm pretty sure he no like it at all. (but he might)

I don´t see YS as a good neutral for ROB. Seriously, if u are going to analyze Lucas' Dsmash in both stages, u'll see that in YS it´s worst for ROB because of the platform that takes almost the whole stage and the edge that privileges Lucas' Dsmash as edgeguard.

TheMike said:

I don´t see YS as a good neutral for ROB. Seriously, if u are going to analyze Lucas' Dsmash in both stages, u'll see that in YS it´s worst for ROB because of the platform that takes almost the whole stage and the edge that privileges Lucas' Dsmash as edgeguard.

Click to expand...

Shyyyyy-guyzzzzz can cancel out his recovery which can = death.

the slope of the platform determines where it works. so it doesn't take up that much space. it actually makes it easier to punish them if they fudge up.

as for the edge, we don't need that, we're robots

Shy Guys aren't going to ruin his recovery, that's Ness. And the platform isn't really an issue since it's usually too high over stage level for him to rig it with DSmash. The real reason you wouldn't want to go to YI is because it's slightly harder to gimp Lucas, as his recovery can slide up along the stage walls (plus the support ghosts).

Assuming standard stage striking, you should just strike BF, expect FD to get struck against ROB, and steer the match toward your favorite remaining stage. Proceed to win by abusing all attacks that start with the word "forward."

Shy Guys do mess with Lucas' recovery. If he hits anything during PKT2, it shortens the rest of his PKT2. That's why Gyro is such a good edge guard tool vs him too. If it doesn't hit him and gimp him, a speed hug will after he hits your gyro and shortens his up-b.

As for stages, I feel that this is one of those where it's really all a matter of comfort on both player's parts. Aside from Smashville. Strike that **** every time, but strike it last just incase they want to strike it. :]

Mr.E said:

Shy Guys aren't going to ruin his recovery, that's Ness. And the platform isn't really an issue since it's usually too high over stage level for him to rig it with DSmash. The real reason you wouldn't want to go to YI is because it's slightly harder to gimp Lucas, as his recovery can slide up along the stage walls (plus the support ghosts).

Click to expand...

Ahh, yu right. I didn't think their characteristics differed when it came to their up+b cancelling out. Ness immediately cancels and Lucas can endure a little. Shy Guys are still lame, no? lol

as for the wall, i played with both some and they seemed to have the same characteristic when it came to colliding with the wall. at a certain angle they bounced off and at a steeper angle they slid up.

Well, Lucas' PKT1 won't cancel out ever from hitting a hurtbox. PKT2 is the part after they hit themselves with the ball of electricity. That's the part that gets shortened.

Sudai said:

Aside from Smashville. Strike that **** every time, but strike it last just incase they want to strike it. :]

Click to expand...

Pardon my asking, but what's so turrible about Lucas on SV? Is it just the D-smash on platforms madness?

He can back throw you to death on the platforms better than we can and the platforms generally help him recover more times than it hurts him. Also Lucas prefers flat surfaces to dair > Dtilt, Nair > Jab. It's not terribly in his favor, but the FD, YI, Lylat, BF are more in our favor imo.

Where would most people CP against Lucas? I was thinking halbred or Frigate for CP stages, but I'd most likely go to FD or YI

I strike Smashville almost every set because the platform helps people's recovery more than it helps ours and yeah. For Lucas specifically, aside from the recovery and the DSmash things, I just feel there's better neutrals. I don't really have specifics behind it though.

I also really, really, hate playing on that stage in tourney because I -will- go for the balloon at almost any cost. It's cost me a fight in a set before (never a whole set though) and yeah. :x

Preferred neutral vs. Lucas is always Lylat. YI is pretty good too. The slants mess up Lucas' auto-cancels, and on Lylat he can miss with his PKT and PKFire a lot. Shy guys really mess with his recovery too, making him much easier to edgeguard. They also weaken the attack by initiating move decay! :D

I like Lylat simply because it makes him think he can do his d-smash shenanigans, but he's incredibly punishable here. Same with YI. The platforms on both make it difficult for a Lucas to get off a good u-smash (they normally do this by hitting you off a plat then u-smashing), and the clutter on the stage makes it difficult for them to pull off a Tyr combo (dair, d-tilt for the lock, u-smash = death at 80% AFTER the hits)

Avoid Smashville like the plague.

FD isn't bad, BF is a double edged sword (he can't dair as much, you can get easier u-airs, but he gets easier d-smashes and u-smashes).

Tako, Eric, and I have a Lucas main named Tyr here that we play a lot, so we've learned the matchup pretty well. Tyr 2-0'd Lain in pools last weekend. (HI LAIN!)

Ban Brinstar, by the way. That **** is mad lame.