Dicing with death: Princess style! (Peach's Kill Percents)

OK, so this wasn't my idea. I saw a thread like this for the Wario boards, and I decided that the Peach board would definitely benefit from something like this. I mean, how often do you land a kill move, thinking that it'll be their doom, only to find that they just barely avoid death? If you're like me, the answer will be, 'Far too often'. So, in the course of this thread, I will list the percents at which all of Peach's primary and secondary kill moves on every single character in the game (including Peach herself), both with and without appropriate DI. For horizontal kill moves, percents are listed for both the middle of Final Destination and the very edge of it. For vertical kill moves, it doesn't really make a difference either way. However, it's going to be a slow process, for several reasons:

- Collecting kill data for Peach is very, very frustrating. You'll often get the wrong weapon out of FSmash, or not get the shoulder sweetspot of USmash (it's ridiculously hard to hit with on purpose). Thus, I can only really do one character at a time without throwing my controller at the screen.

- As time goes on, school work will most likely take priority. Thus, updates may be few and far between. But we should get there, eventually. Patience will be required.

- Getting the percents with DI could prove difficult.

If you want to collect some kill data for any character, then I would be very, very grateful. This is a big task, and ideally I'd like some help with it. BTW, just so you know, every percent listed here assumes that the move is completely fresh. Otherwise, I'm going to test the characters in tier order. Also, I'm not doing charged smashes, since you rarely land them on good opponents.

BTW, when I talk about 'primary' and 'secondary' kill moves, here's what I mean.

Primary kill moves = USmash (both sweetspots), FSmash (all weapons) and Fair

Secondary kill moves = Bair, Nair, Uair and FTilt

One last thing before we start. When it comes to collecting kill percents, the percents were collected in training mode. However, moves don't stale there. This is no problem, because to get the percent for a completely fresh kill move in real play, you simply divide your number by 1.05. If it isn't a whole number (and let's be realistic, it probably won't be), then round it up.

Right. Enough of the waffle. Let's get cracking with the actual info, shall we?


Meta Knight



USmash (shoulder sweetspot)

Without DI: 67%
With DI: not collected yet


USmash (palm sweetspot)

Without DI: 75%
With DI: not collected yet


FSmash (tennis racket)

Centre of FD (without DI): 89%
Edge of FD (without DI): 60%
Centre of FD (with DI): not collected yet
Edge of FD (with DI): not collected yet


FSmash (golf club)

Centre of FD (without DI): 119%
Edge of FD (without DI): 80%
Centre of FD (with DI): not collected yet
Edge of FD (with DI): not collected yet


FSmash (frying pan)
Without DI: 115%
With DI: not collected yet


Fair

Centre of FD (without DI): 112%
Edge of FD (without DI): 72%
Centre of FD (with DI): not collected yet
Edge of FD (with DI): not collected yet


Bair

Centre of FD (without DI): 127%
Edge of FD (without DI): 91%
Centre of FD (with DI): not collected yet
Edge of FD (with DI): not collected yet


Nair

Centre of FD (without DI): 128%
Edge of FD (without DI): 94%
Centre of FD (with DI): not collected yet
Edge of FD (with DI): not collected yet


Uair

Without DI: 127%
With DI: not collected yet


FTilt

Without DI: 119%
With DI: not collected yet


Snake



USmash (shoulder sweetspot)

Without DI: 89%
With DI: not collected yet


USmash (palm sweetspot)

Without DI: 99%
With DI: not collected yet


FSmash (tennis racket)

Centre of FD (without DI): 109%
Edge of FD (without DI): 72%
Centre of FD (with DI): not collected yet
Edge of FD (with DI): not collected yet


FSmash (golf club)

Centre of FD (without DI): 145%
Edge of FD (without DI): 98%
Centre of FD (with DI): not collected yet
Edge of FD (with DI): not collected yet


FSmash (frying pan)
Without DI: 148%
With DI: not collected yet


Fair

Centre of FD (without DI): 138%
Edge of FD (without DI): 89%
Centre of FD (with DI): not collected yet
Edge of FD (with DI): not collected yet


Bair

Centre of FD (without DI): 156%
Edge of FD (without DI): 112%
Centre of FD (with DI): not collected yet
Edge of FD (with DI): not collected yet


Nair

Centre of FD (without DI): 157%
Edge of FD (without DI): 115%
Centre of FD (with DI): not collected yet
Edge of FD (with DI): not collected yet


Uair

Without DI: 161%
With DI: not collected yet


FTilt

Without DI: 153%
With DI: not collected yet


King Dedede




USmash (shoulder sweetspot)

Without DI: 92%
With DI: not collected yet


USmash (palm sweetspot)

Without DI: 101%
With DI: not collected yet


FSmash (tennis racket)

Centre of FD (without DI): Uncertain
Edge of FD (without DI): Uncertain
Centre of FD (with DI): not collected yet
Edge of FD (with DI): not collected yet


FSmash (golf club)

Centre of FD (without DI): Uncertain
Edge of FD (without DI): Uncertain
Centre of FD (with DI): not collected yet
Edge of FD (with DI): not collected yet


FSmash (frying pan)
Without DI: 152%
With DI: not collected yet


Fair

Centre of FD (without DI): Uncertain
Edge of FD (without DI): 94%
Centre of FD (with DI): not collected yet
Edge of FD (with DI): not collected yet


Bair

Centre of FD (without DI): Uncertain
Edge of FD (without DI): 117%
Centre of FD (with DI): not collected yet
Edge of FD (with DI): not collected yet


Nair

Centre of FD (without DI): Uncertain
Edge of FD (without DI): 119%
Centre of FD (with DI): not collected yet
Edge of FD (with DI): not collected yet


Uair

Without DI: 164%
With DI: not collected yet


FTilt

Without DI: 157%
With DI: not collected yet


Bowser



USmash (shoulder sweetspot)

Without DI: 92%
With DI: not collected yet


USmash (palm sweetspot)

Without DI: 101%
With DI: not collected yet


FSmash (tennis racket)

Centre of FD (without DI): Uncertain
Edge of FD (without DI): Uncertain
Centre of FD (with DI): not collected yet
Edge of FD (with DI): not collected yet


FSmash (golf club)

Centre of FD (without DI): Uncertain
Edge of FD (without DI): Uncertain
Centre of FD (with DI): not collected yet
Edge of FD (with DI): not collected yet


FSmash (frying pan)
Without DI: 152%
With DI: not collected yet


Fair

Centre of FD (without DI): Uncertain
Edge of FD (without DI): 94%
Centre of FD (with DI): not collected yet
Edge of FD (with DI): not collected yet


Bair

Centre of FD (without DI): Uncertain
Edge of FD (without DI): 117%
Centre of FD (with DI): not collected yet
Edge of FD (with DI): not collected yet


Nair

Centre of FD (without DI): Uncertain
Edge of FD (without DI): 119%
Centre of FD (with DI): not collected yet
Edge of FD (with DI): not collected yet


Uair

Without DI: 164%
With DI: not collected yet


FTilt

Without DI: 150%
With DI: not collected yet


Meta Knight



USmash (shoulder sweetspot)

Without DI: 67%
With DI: not collected yet


USmash (palm sweetspot)

Without DI: 75%
With DI: not collected yet


FSmash (tennis racket)

Centre of FD (without DI): 89%
Edge of FD (without DI): 60%
Centre of FD (with DI): not collected yet
Edge of FD (with DI): not collected yet


FSmash (golf club)

Centre of FD (without DI): 119%
Edge of FD (without DI): 80%
Centre of FD (with DI): not collected yet
Edge of FD (with DI): not collected yet


FSmash (frying pan)
Without DI: 115%
With DI: not collected yet


Fair

Centre of FD (without DI): 112%
Edge of FD (without DI): 72%
Centre of FD (with DI): not collected yet
Edge of FD (with DI): not collected yet


Bair

Centre of FD (without DI): 127%
Edge of FD (without DI): 91%
Centre of FD (with DI): not collected yet
Edge of FD (with DI): not collected yet


Nair

Centre of FD (without DI): 128%
Edge of FD (without DI): 94%
Centre of FD (with DI): not collected yet
Edge of FD (with DI): not collected yet


Uair

Without DI: 127%
With DI: not collected yet


FTilt

Without DI: 119%
With DI: not collected yet


Jigglypuff



USmash (shoulder sweetspot)

Without DI: 60%
With DI: not collected yet


USmash (palm sweetspot)

Without DI: 67%
With DI: not collected yet


FSmash (tennis racket)

Centre of FD (without DI): 85%
Edge of FD (without DI): 57%
Centre of FD (with DI): not collected yet
Edge of FD (with DI): not collected yet


FSmash (golf club)

Centre of FD (without DI): 113%
Edge of FD (without DI): 76%
Centre of FD (with DI): not collected yet
Edge of FD (with DI): not collected yet


FSmash (frying pan)
Without DI: 104%
With DI: not collected yet


Fair

Centre of FD (without DI): 107%
Edge of FD (without DI): 69%
Centre of FD (with DI): not collected yet
Edge of FD (with DI): not collected yet


Bair

Centre of FD (without DI): 121%
Edge of FD (without DI): 86%
Centre of FD (with DI): not collected yet
Edge of FD (with DI): not collected yet


Nair

Centre of FD (without DI): 122%
Edge of FD (without DI): 89%
Centre of FD (with DI): not collected yet
Edge of FD (with DI): not collected yet


Uair

Without DI: 117%
With DI: not collected yet


FTilt

Without DI: 109%
With DI: not collected yet



OK, so at the moment it's rather bare looking. But if you guys help me out, then we can transform this into a comprehensive guide on kill percents for every character, with and without good DI.

Remember: if you record them in training mode, divide the figure by 1.05 then round it up.

Reserved for data.

Reserved for more data. (I probably won't need it tbh, but better safe than sorry).

I started something like this (but with stages). I stopped because of school, but I was planning on starting it up again soon. Here's what I have.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=235256

Xyless said:

I started something like this (but with stages). I stopped because of school, but I was planning on starting it up again soon. Here's what I have.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=235256

Click to expand...

Ah yes, I remember that. Saves me having to do the FTilt, frying pan and USmash shoulder sweetspot measurements. Thank you Xyless.

No problem. I'll probably work on mine this week. I was trying to make an equation for how to decide characters' kill %, so I'll probably figure that out too.

I like this thread already. I can collect on some characters. I'll have data on a few characters in a days time.

How are you going to determine DI percents 'cause that varies based on the person playing, and not so much the character?

Awesome thread MT.
I can't wait for it to be finished, it'd be pretty sick.

If you ever need any extra space for data just say so.

mountain_tiger said:

OK, so this wasn't my idea. I saw a thread like this for the Wario boards.

Click to expand...

Actually, the Wario boards do not have a thread on this. The thread on the Wario boards is for when OTHER characters kill Wario, not the other way around (although that was suggested by a member of the Wario boards in the thread). So you're wrong about who you're copying. (Trust me on this, myself and KrazyGlue are the 2 guys working on this at the moment, I've already done Snake and Marth, and he has done MK, we are testing who kills Wario, not the other way around)

mountain_tiger said:

Remember: if you record them in training mode, divide the figure by 1.05 then round it up.

Click to expand...

Actually, I think it's multiply, because the moves get stronger in the actual game, not the other way around. There's a thread somewhere on stale moves that has the info.

Also

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=244329
READ THIS
The last section contains weight values, just do some math and you'll only need to test a few characters, then use the weight values to compare weights between characters.[/Theory]

Edit:
Oh, and with DI, have one section for 'Personnal DI' or something, which is just you trying to DI it, then one for 'Perfect DI', which is DI from someone who is reeeeeally good at DIing.

MOAR Edit:
Try adding a 'Quick List' of the top move or top 3 moves or something that kill each character and their percents, I suggested this to KrazyGlue for the Wario thread, and it seems to have worked out well.

Also

Try adding a list of who is doing / has done what, so people don't end up repeating stuff (also suggested to KrazyGlue by myself, again).

K, I did Bowser and D3 today. Everything was at FD in training mode.

Bowser
USmash (shoulder): 103%
Usmash (palm): 96%
Frying Pan: 150%
Tennis Racket: 125% @ center ___84% @ edge
Golf Club: 153% @ center ___ 110% @ edge
Fair: 143% @ center ___ 102% @ edge
Bair: 165% @ center ___ 126% @ edge
Nair: 167% @ center ___ 130% @ edge
Uair: 154%
Ftilt: 157%

Dedede
USmash (shoulder): 108%
Usmash (palm):102%
Frying Pan: 159%
Tennis Racket: 100% @ center ___68% @ edge
Golf Club: 149% @ center ___ 107% @ edge
Fair: 142% @ center ___ 99% @ edge
Bair: 159% @ center ___ 122% @ edge
Nair: 161% @ center ___ 124% @ edge
Uair: 156%
Ftilt: 164%

*To test Uair, I had the character set at jump and SH-Uair.
*nothing is DI'd
*testing F-smash is annoying
*I didn't do the calculation of multiplying or dividing anything yet since there is two suggestions already on this thread
*D3 seems to die quicker horizontally than vertically atleast compared to Bowser who's the opposite.
*I sometimes use her D-tilt to kill to mess with shielders. We should include this.

Mac Royale said:

I like this thread already. I can collect on some characters. I'll have data on a few characters in a days time.

How are you going to determine DI percents 'cause that varies based on the person playing, and not so much the character?

Click to expand...

Ah, that's the thing. DI'ing attacks can be hard if you don't have someone to help you. I suppose I'll start by doing 'average DI' (e.g. for a vertical hit, you DI left or right), and then maybe do 'perfect DI' if possible. That may not be for a while though.

airgemini said:

Awesome thread MT.
I can't wait for it to be finished, it'd be pretty sick.

If you ever need any extra space for data just say so.

Click to expand...

Thanks, airgemini. Though I'm 99% sure three posts should be enough (in fact, two posts is probably enough, but I like to be sure of these things).

Alfa said:

Actually, I think it's multiply, because the moves get stronger in the actual game, not the other way around. There's a thread somewhere on stale moves that has the info.

Click to expand...

We're recording the percents that the character kills at. Thus, if the move is stronger, it'll kill at a slightly lower percent. Hence dividing. (Though I made that mistake to start with as well lol)

Mac Royale said:

K, I did Bowser and D3 today. Everything was at FD in training mode.

Bowser
USmash (shoulder): 103%
Usmash (palm): 96%
Frying Pan: 150%
Tennis Racket: 125% @ center ___84% @ edge
Golf Club: 153% @ center ___ 110% @ edge
Fair: 143% @ center ___ 102% @ edge
Bair: 165% @ center ___ 126% @ edge
Nair: 167% @ center ___ 130% @ edge
Uair: 154%
Ftilt: 157%

Dedede
USmash (shoulder): 108%
Usmash (palm):102%
Frying Pan: 159%
Tennis Racket: 100% @ center ___68% @ edge
Golf Club: 149% @ center ___ 107% @ edge
Fair: 142% @ center ___ 99% @ edge
Bair: 159% @ center ___ 122% @ edge
Nair: 161% @ center ___ 124% @ edge
Uair: 156%
Ftilt: 164%

Click to expand...

You're a star. Thanks. I'll update the OP with these in a bit. (Though I retested the Uair since I did that from the ground instead of out of a jump).

Edit: Sorry, stuff has come up now. I'll do it tomorrow though, I promise.

*To test Uair, I had the character set at jump and SH-Uair.
*nothing is DI'd
*testing F-smash is annoying
*I didn't do the calculation of multiplying or dividing anything yet since there is two suggestions already on this thread
*D3 seems to die quicker horizontally than vertically atleast compared to Bowser who's the opposite.
*I sometimes use her D-tilt to kill to mess with shielders. We should include this.

Click to expand...

Agreed. Testing FSmash sucks ***. And don't worry, I'll convert the numbers myself. The thing is, DTilt hardly ever kills people. FTilt and Uair have merit because they work well on floaties. DTilt... not so much. I might do that one later if I feel like it.

NP. I'll do some other characters later.

Made this awhile ago.



I guess it fills out Mario's section a bit.

This is looking really good!
I cant wait for the finish product!

I'd like to see some of the Utilt percents too, since I'm never sure when to use Usmash so i just tilt

Metatitan said:

Uptilt is actually a pretty bad move, there's like, no use to it aside from early %'s down throws. Sure it's appealing by how fast it comes out and its massively disjointed range, but aside from comboing into it at low %'s I'd really rather use up smash. Both attacks have ending lag (up tilt is actually pretty punishable) and if I'm going to take the risk I'd rather upsmash and kill 60% earlier.

Click to expand...

I'd say that UTilt is a pretty good move overall, better than her Melee UTilt at least. It protects you from basically anything above you (very helpful against Dair spamming Lucarios), and thus can reach many places USmash can't. Though they have similar cooldown, and UTilt doesn't really kill until over 150%.

UTilt is a good move; it's just not a kill move. It's for anti-air tactics and as a follow-up to DThrow or DTilt or something. Oh, and it pokes through just about every platform.

Anyway, since it's the weekend, I should hopefully be able to get a couple more characters done.

Utilt is great for dealing with dairs and some higher platforms, but otherwise it's just an excellent attack restricted to very specific tasks.

And then I remember ftilt exists and then all is well.

Hey guys. I'm really, really, really sorry for the total lack of updates recently. I got banned for a little while, and I've got a lot of schoolwork to do. I should be able to do some more work on it soon.

Edit: Oh, and for the record, I'm not going to record UTilt and DTilt percents jus tyet. Maybe once all the others are done I'll consider it...

Jigglypuff has now been added.

:D

All right, I'll get the calculations for the rest of the characters.

Hold on, I'm confused with your numbers. They're conficting with mine, and I'm not sure why. Could you do Mario too? Pweaze?

For example, with my Ftilt %'s against Dedede (tested on FD in training mode), I got 164%, but you got 157%.

cool start haha. Ok meno here's what you do. just ignore fsmash completely right now and just do her aerials ('cept dair i guess haha). just do fair/bair/nair/usmash first with DI and everything and then just move on to ftilt or w/e. fsmash is dumb coz in game wut if we get the wrong one? then it's stale. i'd just save that for last lool. good **** meno :D

Yup! Sure thing Raz!

:D :D :D

*hordes credit*

Lol Raz. xD
Meno didn't create this thread.

Ok, let's see how my math is. Bolded are numbers that I myself have found, the rest are based off of empirical math, so they should be...mostly accurate.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AuENVP5uUKBudHdGYW13WXdseDU0djVHRXdMdzEwUkE&hl=en

good **** airgemini! <3

Xyless said:

Ok, let's see how my math is. Bolded are numbers that I myself have found, the rest are based off of empirical math, so they should be...mostly accurate.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AuENVP5uUKBudHdGYW13WXdseDU0djVHRXdMdzEwUkE&hl=en

Click to expand...

lol Mr.Saturn. My main kill move now.

Peach can KO jiggs with turnip to fully charged upsmash at 24% :O

someone ****ing do this.

with DI please.

All high tiers are essential.

Illmatic. said:

someone ****ing do this.

with DI please.

All high tiers are essential.

Click to expand...

That x over9000

i honestly might do this. but i dont know how I will get my opponent to DI.

maybe my brother, if he is in the mood.

Illmatic. said:

i honestly might do this. but i dont know how I will get my opponent to DI.

maybe my brother, if he is in the mood.

Click to expand...

Yeah, it could probably take from 15-20 minutes per character to properly find kill percents with the best DI you can get your hands on.

Brawlin said:

I was just wondering, Peach's nair and bair have relatively good knockback. If your opponent is at a high percent, instead of going for a grab, what about out of shield ground float nair or bair? I mean they r pretty fast too nair is like 2 frames and bair is 6, so it could be hard to DI too.

Click to expand...

Ground floated Bairs are easier to kill with on lighter characters.

Nair can kill, but the knock back is more set to go upwards at an angle, so it's harder to kill with.

Usually at the edge it can kill well.

brawlin isn't taking into account jump startup.

6 frame jump + like 1 frame float (i think) + nair/bair 2/6 = 7/13

it's fast, but slower than ya think so it's something to keep in mind.

and at high percent u want a grab anyway so u can refresh your moves n ****.

i'm going to do a big thread on things I feel as though we need to learn probably today / tomorrow.