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Adding Weight, A thread to avoid juggles

SuSa

Banned via Administration
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
11,508
Location
planking while watching anime with Fino
Snake boards are dead, let's tackle our overall greatest weakness.

Our defenses against being juggled.

I will try to cover specific moves, but for now. We must discuss what we can do to best avoid a juggle situation.

I will be taking screen shots after I post this thread to give an idea of what I am saying.


_____Section 1 - Landing ____

Bair, duh?
Simply doing back air.

Best used when:

Avoid using when:


Pulling a Grenade

Simply pull a grenade while falling, while keeping you airborne if it - it also hits your opponent, which may give you time to get to your feet.

Best used when:

Avoid using when:


B-Reversing a Grenade
This is when you pull a grenade, then tap towards Snake's back. This reverses momentum. After that reverse of momentum, it applies exactly like the above.

Best used when:

Avoid using when:


B-Reversing a C4

Some people find this harder, but it is done exactly like B-reversing a Grenade, except you press Down+B then towards your back. While you regain control of Snake faster, you are not safe if you are hit.

Best used when:

Avoid using when:

Platform Fall Through
When you have a grenade in hand, you are able to fall through a platform - and leave the grenade there. This allows you to perform any aerial, special, or airdodge. This is used to either be able to counter attack, or perform an aerial with a grenade, or to rid of the grenade.

Best used when:

Avoid using when:

Zero Lag Landing (onto Mine)
This is when you fall with a grenade, above (and onto) a mine. You can then powershield the explosion.

Best used when:

Avoid using when:


_____Section 2 - Touched Base____
Ok, so now you are safe on the ground - but you landed on a platform. Your opponent is to close to safely leave the platform, so what do you do?

Instant Grab Grenade


By quickly pressing and releasing down, then shield. You grab the grenade. This can help you if an opponent attacks your shield or is nearby.

Best used when:

Avoid using when:

Shielded Fall Through







If you are holding your shield, you can ever so lightly press down. This will allow you to fall through the platform straight from a shield. What is the use of this?

Well you can pull a grenade, shield, fall through, then attack! And still have the safety of a grenade to keep you safe from attacks.

Best used when:

Avoid using when:




...pictures up xD work it out

 

Jupz

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 21, 2008
Messages
3,283
Location
Perth, Australia
Sounds like a good idea for a thread :) You've posted some good options up there. Do you want us to discuss each option in order or just a general discussion? :)
 

Eternal Yoshi

I've covered ban wars, you know
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EternalYoshi
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LOL. What juggles can possibly happen in this game that don't involve MK?
Well, if you must, learn the movements of the characters aerials in the air and time your air dodge.

Anyway, bair's strong hitbox is where his belly is, but his feet hit hard too. It's better used when the foe is behind you and ready to strike. It comes out kinda fast and last as long as a sex kick. Try it when an aerial is being telegraphed by the character's movement.
 

Zajice

BRoomer
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Feb 5, 2009
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I'd only do bair if you're fairly sure it will land. If you hit the ground without hitting them, you're gonna get punished and probably thrown into the air again.

Pulling a nade doesn't seem to scare many people to be honest. People seem to be willing to trade an explosion in their face to hit you again. Or they use some projectile/long range move that doesn't get them hit. Like a ZSS side-b in the air or something. It's honestly better than nothing though.

I do the B-reverse nade and C4 quite a bit. If they're following your DI and you do this, it throws them off and you usually have enough time to land and shield or whatever you wanna do.

Landing on your mine seems the safest thing to do by far though. They can't really run up to you cause of the explosion and you can shield instantly.


Everything else I suck too much to do effectively. Like leaving nades on platforms.
 

Underload

Lazy
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
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Morrison, Colorado
I teach people to edgeguard Snake with grabs over most anything else when I'm recovering from above, since doing that eliminates more of our options than, say, a Marth fsmash. So a badly placed bair will get punished, as will any sort of grenade pull (providing the character has decent air / ground speed.)

Keep your eyes on your opponent's character and not Snake so you can read habits (very crucial), use the ledge wisely when recovering (it pretty much guarantees stability again if you grab it, but you could get edgehogged duh), and counterpick accordingly. That's all I got really.
 

IxxI

Smash Fence
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
2,147
Location
Berkeley, CA
I think you hit all of the points that I would have hit, however can I suggest that you mention something about saving a second jump?
 

luke_atyeo

Smash Hero
Joined
May 10, 2008
Messages
7,215
yeah to me avoiding juggles is like paper scissor rock (but then again what isnt in this game)

ff bairs dont tend to work on marth :(

also double B reverseal is a nice little trick of mine that works once they start picking up on your intial b reversal, also another little trick that I like

if your up high enough you can b revese a c4 but then hold towards it straight away so you cross over the other side of it and blow it up right before you land or if they are close to it, sounds silly I know but it has worked for me before.

and dont get me started on triple B reverse, that worked for me once too :)
 

RATED

Smash Lord
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
1,627
Location
The Grand Line... PR
Luke atyeo that sounds really good. to avoid juggles I treat my jump as if it were sacred and obviously B reversal. like when we get grab released in the edge, most of the time I don't jump quickly that really helps a lot.

also against MK's upair strings I been thinking about this a lot. there's any way at certain % that we could SDI to the side get out and bair the MK? I been thinking about DI'ing this ( / )up and to the left or right and when we are about to get out ( mostly like 3rd or 2nd hit) try to Bair them and DI'ing down and to the side? can anyone tell me if this is posible or anyone test this?
 

luke_atyeo

Smash Hero
Joined
May 10, 2008
Messages
7,215
dunno about that rated, but 1 thing to remember is that snake is much heavier then metaknight,
meaning that if he catches you in an upair string sometimes its best to let him take you up to the top and then just pull a nade and be ready to DI, if the percentages are right (yes he can be at a much lower percent then you) he will die and you wont, works for tornado too.

I remember this one match, where ally 3 stocked diem or whoever, and the last kill was a nade counter and ally was at over 200% and diem was on like 90% (he was meta) and diem died and ally didnt, awesome.
 
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