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Wario's Week 13 Matchup: Lucario!!

Padô

Smash Lord
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Oct 2, 2007
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POKÉMON.
Gotta bite'em all?

LUCARIO

Picture coming soon!

Discussion starts now!

Will make a good post about this matchup as I get home.


DISCUSSION ENDED!

Veredict by majority of votes:

55-45

Results may vary!
 

BMX

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His only reliable killing move is Fsmash, but Wario is too good on predicting that attack. Plus, Wario takes forever to kill without Lucario's aura buff.
 

bassem6

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I recently played lee martin(arguably the best lucario in the nation) and it gave me a lot of knowledge about this matchup. A few things...

1) You cannot approach a good lucario from the side. You will get naired or fair comboed. You have to either approach from above with an auto cancelled dair or airdodge through him, land behind him, wait for the attack, then counterattack.

2) Once you get him to around 75-90%, start stalling for your fart. if you get him higher than that, he becomes dangerous with his killing and damage dealing potential. If you miss the fart and youre behind, approach, but cautious of f-smash and aura sphere. if youre winning, then you can elect to fart stall some more.

3) One of the nicest things we have on lucario is that if we edge hog and cant wall cling, then he has to recover, in which case we can usually take advantage of his landing lag and get a free fart (hopefully 2/3 to kill him)

4) Overall, I would say this matchup might be 55-45 wario.
 

phi1ny3

Not the Mama
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His only reliable killing move is Fsmash, but Wario is too good on predicting that attack. Plus, Wario takes forever to kill without Lucario's aura buff.
This assumption is kinda lolzy and inaccurate.
I agree that Wario is going to be a bit of a hassle to deal with for lucario's end, better movement and all that. Lucario tilts will be really useful for anti-air stuff, particularly ftilt and utilt.
AS helps a bit in pressure, but still too slow to make a truly effective camp tool, kills pretty well though (comes out faster than fsmash, can be fired in the air, ***** AD, and can be used pretty well in conjunction with fair as a mixup option).
Wario is going to have a holiday if he can properly read lucario's ES especially if he wasted his second jump, although fair, BAS, and dair stall help a lot in getting lucario back.
Lucario has to watch out for fast crossups in this MU, luckily utilt will be pretty decent for the job provided he guesses right.
55:45 wario's favor.
 

Padô

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Discussion ending Sunday

Lucario can be a jerk if he starts to roll off like a pig, by the way it gets very predictable. nair punishes this very nicely too, he comboes in the air and, to be honest, Wario will PWN his *** in the air because our moves comes out quicker and are deadlier.

Dair can be annoying to pressure our shield and to punish some mistaken spotdodges. Utilt will **** our FFDair and will put you in a awkward condition.

By the way, like someone said before Lucario takes a LONG time to kill Wario and we got many options to kill him.

55-45 Wario
 

PhantomX

WarioMan
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In my defense, I'm lazy b/c I already did most of my info and arguing on each character's respective boards. So the info could be mined from there.
 

Quik17

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Don't really got much advice to give since I barely play any Lucarios in the Midwest anymore, but from the little experience I have I would say it's 55-45 Wario
 

Dilly04

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Wichita, KS
I got to play a Lucario today.

Their rolls are really good :(

Just camp hard and try to kill with the waft before they hit over 100%
 

Dilly04

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Wichita, KS
How does it make a difference?
The higher damage Lucario has, the more damage and knockback his moves do. So yes, it does make a difference. Killing them at a low percent is just easier to deal with.
I've also been told that applies to his stocks as well? But I'm not sure on that.
 

phi1ny3

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Yeah, it does to an extent, he gets a buff from being behind a stock (like a multiplier of 1.2), and conversely a debuff of .8 when he's behind, which actually is quite mitigated by high aura boost anyways when ahead, so it's kind of a win-win for lucario (except nobody ever likes being behind a stock <.<; ).
 

AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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The higher damage Lucario has, the more damage and knockback his moves do. So yes, it does make a difference. Killing them at a low percent is just easier to deal with.
I've also been told that applies to his stocks as well? But I'm not sure on that.
I know this but what I'm trying to get at is yeah his killing power is increased. Which would only be a factor on the last stock if you're both at high percentages. But avoiding his kill moves in general are rather easy. No matter what you should live to ridic percentages anyways.
 

PhantomX

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Nah, b/c people make mistakes, or can read you if you get marginally predictable. If he hits like a nuclear explosion, you won't get to survive that mistake.
 

phi1ny3

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Lucario's moves also get harder to punish as he's higher. His moves get more shieldstun as he gets more powered.
Also people say "omg all he has is fsmash and AS for killing", that's only half true. They are some of his best because they kill really well even if staled badly. When lucario gets really powered up, he has plenty of other moves that turn into kill moves too. bair, nair, uair, fthrow, FP, dair, and even utilt (although that thing is soooo stale and kills so late it's usually not the best idea, especially in this MU) all become pretty nice kill moves, on top of his obvious smashes and AS. About half of those aforementioned options also come out faster than 11 frames, so the "10 frame rule" doesn't apply to them, meaning some of them the opponent has to predict, they are too fast to see coming.
 

AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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Lucario's moves also get harder to punish as he's higher. His moves get more shieldstun as he gets more powered.
Also people say "omg all he has is fsmash and AS for killing", that's only half true. They are some of his best because they kill really well even if staled badly. When lucario gets really powered up, he has plenty of other moves that turn into kill moves too. bair, nair, uair, fthrow, FP, dair, and even utilt (although that thing is soooo stale and kills so late it's usually not the best idea, especially in this MU) all become pretty nice kill moves, on top of his obvious smashes and AS. About half of those aforementioned options also come out faster than 11 frames, so the "10 frame rule" doesn't apply to them, meaning some of them the opponent has to predict, they are too fast to see coming.
Wasn't saying that fsmash was all he had. He has fsmash dsmash bair dair. Aura sphere dependent upon the percentages because bike can absorb it up to a certain percent.

Nah, b/c people make mistakes, or can read you if you get marginally predictable. If he hits like a nuclear explosion, you won't get to survive that mistake.
That makes sense. I didn't think of it like that.

So then what move kills Lucario early waft? Edge guard really well? What percentages does fsmash/uair start to kill at?
 

PhantomX

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Fsmash kills Lucario surprisingly late, considering his floatiness. If you can manage to get an upair in on him though, it will kill him around 110 or so. Waft is the best, obviously, b/c you can keep him around 80-90 where he'll be pretty **** hard pressed to kill you with anything. Gimps are great, and even failed gimp attemps can set up for easy wafts b/c of his recovery.
 

AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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Fsmash kills Lucario surprisingly late, considering his floatiness. If you can manage to get an upair in on him though, it will kill him around 110 or so. Waft is the best, obviously, b/c you can keep him around 80-90 where he'll be pretty **** hard pressed to kill you with anything. Gimps are great, and even failed gimp attemps can set up for easy wafts b/c of his recovery.
Ah I see, so I just gotta be more aware of that ****. I'll try to keep that in my head.
 
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