Well, the Luigi boards have had a few match-up discussion threads, but none were ever completed. This isn't something that the "Veteran" Luigi Mains may need. But it will really come in handy for those wanting to pick up our main man.
I'm hoping that we'll finally be able to have a decent match up thread here. It'll take lots of work from both you guys involved in the discussion and for me, so I hope you're up for it!
This is my first match up thread. So of course feel free to critique/give advice on anything I do here. Don't be afraid to point out mistakes!
I will do my best to format this in the most organized and easy-to-read way possible.
We'll be discussing a different character each week, or whenever we feel we're ready to move on, and each character discussion will take place in it's own separate thread. Links to to the threads can be found here.
General Understanding of Matchup Numbers:
- 70-30 or less- Hard Counter
- 60-40- Difficult, but winnable if you play the matchup correctly.
- 55-45- About even. One side of the matchup may have something that makes the matchup slightly in their favor (i.e. a projectile, more range, etc.)
- 50-50- Dead even
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[COLLAPSE=Snake]
Image by ~hydrofobic
#1: Snake
Ratio: 45:55 Snake's Favor
Before starting the match against snake try to get the higher port to avoid grenade explosion grabs. P4 has the highest priority so in a grab while a grenade is active P4 will take damage, but not flinch while p3, p2, or p1 will flinch.
SNAKE DISCUSSION THREAD: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=250266
PREVIOUS SNAKE VS LUIGI DISCUSSION: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6606703#post6606703
(Pages 43 - 54)
- There is a ton of info here! ^^^
I recommend checking out this post. It's a great read!
Click Here!
Summary:
-The Snake Match-up can be a difficult one. But it's winnable. Snake easily outranges Luigi and easily out camps him. For this match up it's best to stay right outside of Snake's range. Too close to be effectively camped and too far to get bombarded by his tilts.
-Getting Snake in the air above Luigi is always a plus, he can be easily juggled and this can add a fair amount of damage. Just watch out for when Snake pulls out a grenade in between attacks.
-Snake has the overall advantage against us here.
Overall, snakes tilts just poop all over luigi in a ground battle.
Snake's defensive game is really good because of shield dropped nades
- he can pivot grab us out of everything except maybe the cyclone
-Watch out for up tilt it kills at 90-110 percent
Combo ability, kill potential. It can't be worst then 6:4 Snake. Snake defintly wins, but Snake can die in this matchup really early if he messes up. Putting Snake in the air in this matchup is crucial, sometimes if i grab Snake I use upthrow just so i can put him in the air.
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Tips and Tricks:
- DO NOT use Cyclones against nade spamming Snakes, unless you really need to.
When Luigi's in death range, play a defensive careful game, or hit and run game.
Attacks that clank:
Luigi ---- Snake
Jab 1 ---- Jab 1
Jab 1 ---- F-tilt 1
F-tilt ---- F-tilt 1
- Nikita > Luigi's Side-B. I first discovered this in a tournament, and I realized that it works extremely well.
Snake is massively gimpable when he's off stage. Chase him 100% of the time. Use up all your jumps to chase him if you have to.
Another thing to note is that you can fastfall Nair through the mortar and and hit an edgeguarding snake.
also if snake takes out a nade, and is holding it (not shielding) anything spaced (jab, ftilt, retreating aerial) won't set it off.
Jab combos that need SDI to work
Jab to nair
Jab to cyclone
Jab to Shoruyken or Grab
Jab combos that don't need SDI to work
Jab to dsmash, dtilt, and Ftilt (needs to be the first hitbox of the jab)
You can shoruyken snake even though he's holding a grenade.
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____________________________________________
Counter-picks and Bans:
Snake seems kind of difficult to cp against. Both characters have the same stages that work in their favor and against them. There probably aren't any stages that give Luigi a defined advantage over Snake.
Neutral wise, BF is probably your best bet. Platforms are just fantastic for Luigi and his gameplay. Try to get Snake above the platforms and just control the stage from there. Just try not to get caught above the platforms yourself. Snake has his tricks there too.
A good alternate neutral stage would be Yoshi's Island. Lylat also works.
Counter-picks:
- Battlefield
- Brinstar
- Delfino Plaza*
- Frigate Orpheon
- Rainbow Cruise
Bans:
- Final Destination
- Halberd
- Smashville*
NOTE: Stages with a * beside them are debatable and mainly depend on personal preference and skill.
Also remember, these stages are merely recommendations. If you have stages that you'd rather counter-pick or ban against a Snake, then feel free to do so.
Similarly, the same thing works with platforms. Ban Halberd since Snake kills I believe at 80 with a fresh up tilt and FD.
I personally recommend stages that force snake to approach in the air or a stage with an incredible amount of platforms
To me that means:
Frigate Orpheon: The stage flips and the stage moves, forcing snake into the air.
-Learn to down air spike his recovery
- our down throw combos help tremendously on platforms. Down throw to up tilt or N-air gets snake to 50+
FO: Ah, the frigate. Just pushing him off the stage makes it so dangerous for him. Plus, he'll need to re-lay mines and claymores if the stage flips.
[/COLLAPSE]
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[COLLAPSE=Wario]
Image by *zaratus
#2: Wario
Ratio: 45:55 Wario's Favor
(Pages 23 - 25)
- There isn't much here ^^^
Summary:
Wario is a tricky Match-up. His air mobility is extremely good. He can weave in and out to sneak in attacks, avoid attacks, bait moves, etc.A lot of Luigi's and Wario's aerials come out at similar speeds and have similar ranges, meaning that, in the air, there is a lot of trading of hits going on.
Don't be surprised if both players in this match-up play extremely cautious. The game can potentially turn around at any time and both characters (Especially Wario) have the ability to make major comebacks.
-Wario definitely has an edge over Luigi in this Match-up due his overall mobility, power, and recovery options.
Summary Continued...
Run away from the dair and punish it with Upair.
-Bite hurts. If wario lands near you but outside your grab range, be afraid. Just like anyone you can jab and grab combo him, because you're luigi. So take advantage of that.
-If you see the fart charged, don't panic and change your playstyle dramatically.
Don't let Wario get below you or you will be in for a lot of hurt, especially with an air speed as poor as yours. All your aerials are biteable.
-Bite's hitbox actually extends to the top right part of his head, so if you want to hit him out of it, you need to hit him from behind or directly above.
-Do not approach with fireballs, they have enough lag for us to punish with down airs.
-Fireballs should be used primarily for retreating/zoning and as a mixup from the ledge to try to get back on.
-Wario's ftilt beats out absolutely every move you have, no exceptions.
-Be really really smart about using cyclone/missile to recover or you will be eating offstage wafts left and right.
-If wario hits our shield with an fsmash we'll just slide away and we can't do anything. He has a few SA frames on this attack as well.
-When on the legde look out for Wario's ftilt and bite.
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Tips and Tricks:
You can't do anything guaranteed to Wario after jabs unless he DIs into you or up.
-Up-angled F-smash is valuable in this matchup.
-Saving Up-smash is also pretty important in this matchup, because aside from possibly landing that Up-angled F-smash, Up-smash is probably your most viable KO move.
Grab release: Wario won't pop up into the air unless he mashes jump at some point before your grab release, so against an experienced wario just throw them. He WILL, however, go into the air if you let him go while holding him over the edge. In that case, you get a free Fsmash.
Half charged waft has more knock back and killing potential than fully charged, but fully charged does 40+ damage iirc.
if he's biting You can fireball wario from the front,
-Luigi does better on smaller stages, wario can air camp on large stages. -Luigi's N-air, Back air, fireballs, and down b are key in this matchup.
Jab combos that need SDI to work
Jab to cyclone
jab to Shoruyken and Grab
jab to dsmash, dtilt, and Ftilt
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____________________________________________
Counter-picks and Bans:
-Try going to stages that limit Wario's air camping ability. Smaller stages would be recommended.
-think about how to simply outplay the opponent. Luigi has the tools to make it work.
Counter-picks:
- Battlefield*
- Halberd
- Yoshi's Island
Bans:
- Brinstar*
- Final Destination*[/COLOR]
NOTE: Stages with a * beside them are debatable and mainly depend on personal preference and skill.
Also remember, these stages are merely recommendations. If you have stages that you'd rather counter-pick or ban against a Wario, then feel free to do so.
Haliberd: low ceiling
Battlefield and platform oriented stages: Combos on platforms.
I also like Frigate. Frigate forces characters to approach due to the flipping.
[/COLLAPSE]
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[COLLAPSE=Marth]
Image by ~navi-the-cute-fairy
#3: Marth
Ratio: 30:70 Marth's Favor
MARTH DISCUSSION THREAD: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=251887
PREVIOUS MARTH VS LUIGI DISCUSSION: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199357&page=12
(Pages 12 - 15)
- There isn't much here ^^^
MARTH BOARDS MATCH-UP THREADhttp://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5484253
- A bit old, but decent ^^^
Summary:
-To sum it up, slow down and stay calm. A Marth will try to rush you down
-This is the classic example of 'knowing your opponent and knowing yourself'. If you can know what your weaknesses are and how your opponent can punish them, and you make adjustments to cover those, this match-up is already won.
Summary Continued...
- Once you rack up damage to an UpB percent, try to get the UpB. If you're able to locate noticeable holes in their counter-defense, you don't have to rush the kill moves, since you should be able to get in there more easily.
-PATIENCE is what gets you inside of him.
-STAY AWAY FROM THE LEDGE. A Marth who knows this match-up won't try to gimp you much, he'll zone at the edge and take away your jumps
If you got good powershielding skills, it should be a fun matchup for you
- His sword is bigger than your whole body and since Luigi is so slow in the air its super easy to sweetspot him with the tip of it.
-He can shield up +b after jab
-Don't go charging into this guy. You'll get destroyed. Usually I just try to bait attacks. I'll move around outside his range and SHbairs sometimes waiting for him to come to me.
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Tips and Tricks:
- bait the dolphin slash. The first time they dolphin slash you out of a jab cancel, start jab to shielding. Do it half the time if you have to. If you get lucky and shield one. Then up b marth
-The Cyclone can catch him off guard and can be used to give yourself some distance.
-Also SH dAir/fAir to Fireball works wonders.
-Delay your recoveries, since he'll get gimped if he tries to chase you off-stage.
-if you're hanging on the ledge, you're pretty much toast if he's any good. Mix in a ledgehop cyclone stall to get back on stage once in a while.
Jab combos that need SDI to work
Jab to nair
Jab to cyclone
Jab combos that always work
Jab to up b or grab(I don't think this is entirely true because I've been hit by up b during a jab)
Jab to dsmash, ftilt, dtilt
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____________________________________________
Counter-picks:
- Frigate Orpheon
- Halberd
- Smashville
- Yoshi's Island
Bans:
FD
- Battlefield*
NOTE: Stages with a * beside them are debatable and mainly depend on personal preference and skill.
Also remember, these stages are merely recommendations. If you have stages that you'd rather counter-pick or ban against a Marth, then feel free to do so.[/COLLAPSE]
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[COLLAPSE=Ice climbers]
#4: Ice Climbers
Ratio:
55-45 Ice climber's favor
ICE CLIMBERS DISCUSSION THREAD: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=252978
PREVIOUS ICE CLIMBERS VS LUIGI DISCUSSION:
Summary:
-Jab is annoying, but can be pivot grabbed by ICs if spaced right.
-Luigi cyclone can be pivot grabbed.
-Luigi's fireball goes through Blizzard, but I'd say we outcamp with IBs.
-Luigi cyclone goes through Ice Blocks.
Summary Continued...
-we can get them separated with Jab into down smash.
-if both of them are there, just do 1 jab and then down air or into a down b
3) Approaching
-For aerials. don't approach directly from above, a down air is asking for an up air.
-Approach from the side with a well spaced back air and the bottom (mix up fireballs and down b). for approaching desynching ice blocks Short hop air dodge or short hop into a down b.
4) Defense & camping
-space well enough to get away from grabs.
-approach as above for ice blocks.
-on stages that aren't the normal platforms or flat, wait for an opportunity to strike.
5) Edge game
-Back air the belay or down smash it.
- Down air the up b. it is possible to fireball gimp nana if popo up b's above the ledge.
6) The KO stuff
-Get nana alone and quickly titled f-smash her.
-For popo, back air and fireballs beat single ice climbers. abuse the fact that solo popo doesn't have a realiable kill and kill nana quickly.
-Don't up b kill...seriously....unless nana or popo are alone. your asking for a 0 to death if you miss
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Tips and Tricks:
-D-air is amazing on the IC's shield.
-Fireballs are MAD useful if they camp with Blizzard.
Jab combos that need SDI to work
Jab to nair
Jab to cyclone
Jab to shoruyken or grab
Jab combos that always work
Jab to dsmash, ftilt, dtilt
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____________________________________________
Counter-picks and Bans:
-FD and BF are ICs 2 best stages.
- UAirs **** on BF. They out camp you, so FD is a bad choice for Luigi.
-If you can, strike those two stages.
-ICs suck on Rainbow Cruise and Brinstar. So unless Luigi sucks on Brinstar/Rainbow Cruise, CP them to one of those two.
1) First thoughts
-our worst stages in this matchup are flat stages, as in Final Destination followed by Smashville.
-We have more priority with our aerials than your aerials so Battlefield, Yoshi's and PS1, or Lylat
Counter-picks:
BF
SV*
Frigate
Bans:
FD
Delfino plaza*
Castle siege
NOTE: Stages with a * beside them are debatable and mainly depend on personal preference and skill.
Also remember, these stages are merely recommendations. If you have stages that you'd rather counter-pick or ban against Ice Climbers, then feel free to do so.
[/COLLAPSE]
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[COLLAPSE=Diddy kong]
Image by ~Pdubbsquared
#5: Diddy Kong
Ratio:
55-45 Luigi's favor
DIDDY DISCUSSION THREAD: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=252979
PREVIOUS DIDDY VS LUIGI DISCUSSION:
Summary:
-You need to rush down diddy with Luigi before he can set up his banana camping game.
-Honestly other then the fact luigi can kill diddy early, he doesnt really have many advantages. (well other then jab of course)
-Fireball isn't really that special in this match up.
-It'll help you camp though if you manage to get a banana in hand.
-Utilt can still juggle relatively well.
-Luigi's cyclone wrecks Diddy's recovery.
-Diddy can gimp Luigi's recovery with banana plucks when he uses tornado.
- Diddy can use Fair to hit his side-b.
-Luigi wins in air game
-Diddy wins in terms of controlling the stage, but you can't go around smashing every time he slips since he slides so far.
- Diddy has problems comboing luigi due to his floatiness.
-Watch out for diddy's f-air for ko's.
-Luigi's back air and fireballs help a lot here.
-N-air is a good move up close.
-learn to glide toss.
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Tips and Tricks:
Jab combos that need SDI
Jab to up b or grab
jab to dsmash, ftilt, dtilt
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____________________________________________
Counter-picks:
BF
SV*
Bans:
FD
Ps1
-Castle Siege and FD are diddy's best stages
-your next best are SV and PS1. When you're in killing range, just stay out of range of his smashes and wait til he approaches.
-Best neutral is either BF or Yoshi's.
-Best counterpicks for you are anything small, a low ceiling, or something that allows you to get diddy off the stage.
-Stay away from overly large stages or stages that allow diddy to recover easier.
NOTE: Stages with a * beside them are debatable and mainly depend on personal preference and skill.
Also remember, these stages are merely recommendations. If you have stages that you'd rather counter-pick or ban against a Diddy, then feel free to do so.
[/COLLAPSE]
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[COLLAPSE=Olimar]
Image by ~Madmatica
#6: Olimar
Ratio:
55-45 Luigi's favor
OLIMAR DISCUSSION THREAD: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=255183
PREVIOUS OLIMAR VS LUIGI DISCUSSION:
- Keep Oilmar pressured at the edge because Olimar needs space to run to do his pivot grabs.
-Pick small stages to prevent his pivot grab gaming and get inside with Cyclone.
OOOOOk the Olimar matchup is really lulzy.
Nair ***** his Usmash and all of his aerials barring Uair, and Luigi's Uair will beat all of Olimar's moveset if you're below him. So keep that in mind when hes in the air. On the ground tornado beats pretty much everything he has as well, so tornado approach is actually really, really safe. [except for grab]
Jab combos essentially are what make this matchup as bad as it is. Jab -> anything is unavoidable for olimar, and you can literally jab cancel him at least 3 times before he has the option to move sometimes. Jab -> UpB kills at 41 if I recall and as long as you're close enough its a guaranteed connect.
Crash's post all about the olimar matchup
Summary:
Summary Continued...
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Tips and Tricks:
Throw him off the edge as much as possible, it makes him nervous.
Nair or tornado through most of his moves, but don't get grabbed.
Go to the oli boards and read up on whistling. If you can keep track of his whistles (which Pikmin will come out next), you can predict alot about him. You can tell a good Oli by how well they whistle, and how well they keep track of the order. If he is good with his whistle and uses it to swap purples to the front of the line, careful since he will most likely go for the kill...
Plucking: Olimar can pluck cancel when he is replenishing his stock of pikmin. This means the first pluck he can cancel into a smash. From the second pluck and on though, punish if able. Also, another sign of a good olimar is he does not overpluck.
Lastly, since purples are Oli's best defense against weegee because their insane priority, NEVER leave Olimar near an edge to pluck freely. Purple and White pikmin land closer on the ground to Oli than reg/green/yellow, so he can pluck when spaced properly near an edge, and all but the purple/white pikmin will fall off the edge of the stage, leaving oli with purple and white only.
Jab combos that need SDI
Jab to upsmash or Upair
Jab combos that always work
Jab to nair(works only on the first hit box of the jab)
Jab to cyclone
Jab to up b or cyclone
Jab to dsmash, ftilt, dtilt
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____________________________________________
Counter-picks and Bans:
Counter-picks:
BF
SV
RC
Brinstar
~stages that will mess up his shield camping and knock him off his feet. Small stages are also good to keep us in his face.
so stay away from these stages if possible.
Bans:
FD
olimar gets more purple pikmin which are our main enemy in this matchup, on:
frigate
delphino
yoshi's island
halberd
castle siege
NOTE: Stages with a * beside them are debatable and mainly depend on personal preference and skill.
Also remember, these stages are merely recommendations. If you have stages that you'd rather counter-pick or ban against an Olimar, then feel free to do so.
[/COLLAPSE]
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[COLLAPSE=Peach]
Image by ~AmuthAlexiel
#7: Peach
Ratio:
55-45 Peach's favor
PEACH DISCUSSION THREAD: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=255187
PREVIOUS PEACH VS LUIGI DISCUSSION:
Summary:
Her unpunishable frame traps are just that, unpunishable. So run away, approach as little as possible, fireball and nado all day, and zone her out with bair when she tries to float over you.
Summary Continued...
____________________________________________
Tips and Tricks:
3 keys to this MU
1. Bair
2. Fireballs
3. Chill (don't be aggressive at all)
When she's coming out of the air, shield her dair because her air dodge is the worst in the game so she will almost always do an air move, or air dodge away. Shield the air move and either Out of Shield (OOS) nair, or upsmash.
Air dodge into her shield and upb works a lot because peaches sit in shield waiting to OOS nair so much. you can catch them with the frame advantage upb.
Jab combos that need SDI to work
jab to upsmash or upair
Jab combos that always work
Jab to nair(has to be the first hitbox of the jab to work)
Jab to cyclone
jab to up b or grab
jab to dsmash, ftilt, dtilt
____________________________________________
____________________________________________
Counter-picks and Bans:
Counter-picks:
Frigate
RC
Brinstar
Bans:
FD
Castle siege
NOTE: Stages with a * beside them are debatable and mainly depend on personal preference and skill.
Also remember, these stages are merely recommendations. If you have stages that you'd rather counter-pick or ban against a Peach, then feel free to do so.
[/COLLAPSE]
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[COLLAPSE=King dedede]
60-40 D3's favor
-it's great to just space right outside his shield grab range and just bait something out and punish accordingly with a tornado or some aerial.
Luigi
- Can juggle with utilts easily from 0-40%
- Can combo him easily due to his fat size
- Has a projectile
- Has great recovery but can't gimp very well on the way back to stage as D3's
D3's things he has.
- Can live longer due to his immense big weight
- Has variety of projectiles that can distract/actually kill by surprise
- Has infinite
- Has alot of grab range
-This match is all about Luigi's defense vs D3's offense. Sooner or later it'll go to Luigi's offense vs D3's defense but take note you must be extremely careful and patient.
- Luigi's main tools on stages is Ftilt, cyclone, IASA frames on his aerials, fireball, and Bairs.
-If you get grabbed and start to get infinited. Don't panic just try to mash out by rotating the control stick in a circle and press B,A,x in a quick repetitive motion and you will get out.
the reason being that D3 has to pummel first to get the infinite and that is when you can get out.
- camp with fireballs. Use the trajectory of the fireball to your advantage since it spins in the air.
- You can attack waddle dees and waddle doos to refresh your moves or just duck under them as they are thrown at you. - Waddle Dees do 5%. Waddle Doo's do 7%. Gordo's do 22%.
- A Gordo can kill around 75%.
- D3's Utilt has a hitbox and kills Luigi maybe late 90s %s or early 100%s and also is a anti-air attack tool and can kill!!
-You can just SH to avoid all means and still do a Dair to Fair or just a lone Fair to keep yourself abit distanced.
-You can Fair his projectiles cept the Gordo.
-SH fireball approach or a Dair to Nair approach to start off your combos.
-beware of doing Nairs on D3's shield because their easily shieldgrabbed.
-As for fighting D3 offstage, don't try to gimp him. That's one of his best ablilties. He's a heavy weight, fastfaller, with alot of jumps .
-Camping, punishing, openings for a combos and patience will let you win in this matchup.
- Lylat Cruise messes up infinties, Battlefield for combos and avoiding projectiles.
-We have a hard time KOing him too, but being able to jab-upB him is a big plus. He dies at 80% on FD, 60-70 on Halberd. As long as you're consistent at pshielding the bair, nothing should be really difficult to overcome.
-DDD can chaingrab luigi with a perfect dashing shiledgrab. DDD can infinite luigi 5 times before you can mash out of it.
-Moves to worry about-back air and ddd's sheild grabbing, play a well spaced game and mix up recovery options.
-against d3, avoid missile while recovering whenever possible, because he can always bair it even a misfire.
-the fsmash is very good against his shield when he, for example, runs up randomly and tries to grab you.
Jab combos that need SDI to work
jab to nair
jab to cyclone
Jab combos that always work
Jab to up b or grab(only works on the first hitbox of the jab)
jab to dsmash, ftilt, and dtilt
Counter picks
BF
PS1
Brinstar*
Halberd*
NOTE: Stages with a * beside them are debatable and mainly depend on personal preference and skill.
Ban
FD
Yoshi's Island
Castle Siege[/COLLAPSE]
____________________________________________
[COLLAPSE=Falco]
#9: Falco
Ratio:
60-40 Falco's favor
-utilts are your friend. usually after he gets that chaingrab to spike, he changes, so read his playstyle.
-if he's zooming back and forth and lasering, crawl under lasers and cyclone to break down his camp game.
-as for the kill game, you can always spot dodge or Power shield when he runs up for an upsmash and upb him. as for the fsmash, just be patient.
-to punish the phantasm, the green missile ALWAYS hits him out of it as long as he's not above you.nair is good too, as long as you're a bit above him and he can't hit your upper body.
-It is really the matchup of great jabs, in this matchup, expect jabs and large grab/aerial combos.
Luigi
-IF Luigi can get in close, Luigi can kill VERY easily
-Up tilt is great for combos.
-Falco's side b is out prioritized by most of Luigi's moves preventing him from Phantasm camping
-Luigi can crawl beneath lasers.
-Luigi's n-air can out prioritize non grab combos.
-If Falco does not know how to chain grab perfectly, Luigi can get out of it.
-Luigi has an overall better recovery, just don't down b too highly, save it.
-Pick Yoshi's or BF, followed by PS1/LC.
Falco
-Better on low platform stages and overall not bad on BF either due to camping abilities
-Falco's jab is Dumb, almost if not more dumb than Luigi's.
-If Luigi is grabbed, expect 60 damage.
-Lasers are annoying regardless, especially Laser to boosted up smash for kill.
-Falco can back air our non-charged side b and down air both other recoveires
-Back air helps well vs Luigi.
-Down b prevents fireball camping
-FD, SV, and any flat stages is easily 60-40 and 65-35 possibly for Falco due to his camping ability.
-if you get grabbed in other words vs. a Good falco, expect 60 damage or possibly more with reads.
-Back air Falco's recovery, down b or back air Falco's side b (Down b is GREAT in this matchup is it prevents Falco from Side b camping).
-You can't jab grab falco or do any jab combos to him 100 percent since he is a fast faller and has a frame 2 jab
Jab combos that need SDI to work
Jab to dsmash, ftilt, dtilt
Stages
BF
SV*
Ban
FD
*Smashvile can be a good and bad stage for Luigi. Especially since Falco can just camp with lasers[/COLLAPSE]
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[COLLAPSE=Meta knight]
#10: Meta Knight
70-30 Mk's favor
-if mk starts to dtilt across the stage counter it with Dair. As you play longer with an mk you'll learn when they dtilt.
-Shield nado and punish if possible
- if you know mk is about to do nado run away first then reverse upsmash because the invici frames of Luigi's upsmash will hit through the nado.
-Fireballs are useful if you want to add percent on mk and always look for a fsmash kill.
-Jab to up b only works if Mk SDI into you and up b kills around 55% with DI, but it is possible for mk to live from an up b at 63%.
-Up b around 45% will kill without DI.
-jab to Dsmash almost always works and even if it is shielded it eats away at mk's shield
-jab to ftilt a lot when mk is at high percentages because its a extra 13% and it can mess with an mk mentally knowing they are in danger of dying to fsmash or up b. Also it creates space between the both of you
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=265353&highlight=Mk+nado
^ awesome insight on the nado.
Luigi can stop the nado only with
-upsmash (invici frames on 6 to 11)
-Ftilt
-Obviously Luigi can hurt mk from above the nado
-Apparently the nado can be broken with a move that is over last I heard 15%.
during the start up of the nado it can be stopped by
-Fireball
-Down b
-Jab
Key points about the nado.
1. As mk rises in the air he gains more priority which is why some moves can't break through the nado. But as the nado starts to cool down it loses priority making it possible to break through the nado.
2. mks sometimes use their nado either to rack up damage or to pressure your shield.
3.It is best to tilt your shield up to block the nado, but you can't really shield the whole nado because as your shield's hp gets drained your shield isn't covering your legs so the bottom of the nado can hurt you.
Recovering against mk
1. side b edge grab
- Some mks don't know that Luigi missile has no priority so they can stop it with anything
- some know that Luigi's missile has no priority, but they don't know the timing to stop it.
- Then some mks are just plain scared of challenging just in case the missile is a misfire so once again you another psychological advantage.
2. save your jump and rise very high with the cyclone then jump to Side b and land on stage using either smart air dodges or fair to nair. Fair to nair will happen quickly due to Luigi's IASA frames on aerials.
3. on Smashville you recovery low with up b and grab the ledge. The only problem is that mks might catch on to it and grab the ledge before you do.
4. Cyclone to fireball, jump fireball aim at the ledge to fair and then up b. The fireballs are going to either hit mk or he is going to get off the ledge allowing you to grab it. If the fireballs hit it will allow you to fair or Upair them into a possible stage spike and allowing you to grab the ledge.
-^If you don't want to do this. Then just watch Mk and try your best to get back on the stage.
-What you you mostly have to watch out at the for at the edge is low shuttle loops that can counter Luigi's missile sending him out to the blast zone and dairs.
-Also be ready to tech otherwise you might get stage spiked by mk.
Jab combos that need SDI to work
Jab to cyclone
Jab to up b or grab
jab to dsmash, ftilt, and dtilt
-Dthrow to Upsmash works at Low percents, but it is DI dependent.
-Fireballs become one of your more helpful moves
-the best way to avoid the Mach Tornado is to run and dodge.
-Be wary of juggling with U-Tilt at higher percents, as MK's D-air comes out fast and will hurt you.
-However, at lower percents, U-Tilt > U-Tilt > U-Smash is a reliable way to rack up damage.
-All of MK's Special B moves give him helplessness, so be ready to take advantage of that if at all possible.
-Metaknight is fairly light, so incorporating the Fire Jump Punch is also important.
-As the match progresses and damage percents start to rise, you will eventually end up in the air. DI away from MK's attacks, or dodge. If you cannot, try N-air as a neutralizer to his aerials.
-MK has extreme gimping potential and recovery will prove difficult, even for Luigi.
-The tornado is good for chasing and punishing lag, but it's also risky if it gets shielded completely because you do have lag on the end of it
-if their shield is somewhat weakened already cyclone can shield-poke
-A shorthop to a dair is usually pretty effective it either misses, and of course your aerial is fast enough it doesn't matter, or Metaknight just ran into it trying to use his dash attack or grab.
-up-angled fsmash.
-This is your ideal KO move because it is fast, and has a lot of vertical KO power. It's so fast, in fact, that if you were to spam it, it still is likely to hit. Tossing it out at MK in a way that makes him very wary of it, and forces MK into an instinctive reaction to roll behind luigi which can be punished by simply using your up-angled fsmash right behind you.
2 good ways to recover
a. Jump than tornado as high as you can than use smart air dodges or tornados....
B. Hold a side b or go real low than jump upB sweet spot...
problem with B is that sometimes they hit you during upB or some bull**** happens.
Best way is A, but you must change your recovery almost everytime.
Read Mk's grab, spotdodge and Punish with upB
Abuse OOS everything!!! (NAIR OOS IS AMAZING!!!!)
basically up B anything with lagg from MK shield his glide attack or powershield it then upB OOS....
also grabs play a big factor now that you've got the MK worried about being up-b'ed.....
also read his airdodges.....
luigi's NAIR goes through the shuttle loop nad the top near tornado...
luigi's fireballs also can stop tornado......causing him to forword B punish his lagg with an up-B as he lands.....
basically you gonna wanna keep MK Shielding the whole time to a point where he thinks its safe...but its really not......
[/COLLAPSE]
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[COLLAPSE=Pikachu]
#11: Pikachu
Ratio:
55-45 Pikachu's favor
My random thoughts on the MU:
Even though his jab is fast, our ground game still beats Luigi's. Most of his jab combos can be avoided by proper SDI, which is really important if you don't want to get jab > Shoryuken'd. Dtilt, fsmash, and grabs work well while you're on the ground.
In the air is where Luigi gives us the most trouble. his aerials beat ours, and his nair is a legitimate combo breaker
His tornado goes straight through tjolts, so be wary of camping at mid-range, especially since the last hit will pop you into the air (which is bad) if you don't DI out of it. If he tornadoes while you're grounded, just shield it and punish its horrible end lag.
He has more killing power, but his KO moves seem to be ~equally as hard to land as ours if both sides know what to watch out for. Fsmash and up b hurt the most DI out of his jab combos, he'll have to rely on predicting a roll/spotdodge/bad tech choice to land either one of them.
Our camp beats his. The only thing you have to watch out for, like I said, is his tornado, but if it comes to a camp war..... we'll win.
Yes, BF is where the **** happens...Luigi's platform game is amazing...
3 Things not to do against a good Luigi
1. Don't Roll
2. Dont Spotdodge
3. Dont choose BF, lol
I have no clue how to explain the MU from a pika's point of view but from luigis the only problem I have against pikachu is counterattacking after shielding...Most of pikas moves knock us back due to our traction...
this is pretty much stardard camping thing and spacing (like always against luigi lol) pika should be keeping luigi away from getting inside with tjolts, running away with QAC and ulitizing his speed and for the love of god, don't be dumb and always challenge luigi to the air, because you'll get nair if you don't space properly. in theory its really hard for luigi to land kill moves
luigi shouldnt be gimping pikachu too much, but more like the other way because pikachu has ALOT of tools to deal with luigi's recovery, you should use thunder to make a wall since luigi's aerial movement is 2nd worst in the game, throw out some tjolts.
pikachu should be looking for big flat stages like ps1 as said before, FD so you can camp and give luigi a harder time getting inside, ban anything with platforms/small stages it'll give him easier time to get inside, and bypass some of pikachu's camping.
I don't find it hard to land kill moves on pikachu at all. Alot of his ground game is very punishable. If you shield a dsmash you can land a fsmash, if you spot dodge a running grab you can get an up b.
Plus pika doesn't really have an attack aerial with the quickness or priority to really escape a juggle trap, so you're left to play the airdodge game (for the most part).
Pika's biggest advantage seems to be his projectile gimping game. Any time luigi is offstage two or three hits should be almost guaranteed.
luigi's only real followups after a jab is : jab 1 to a Dsmash/Dtilt/Ftilt and prolly jab cancels that's about it.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199907bo
everything else pikachu should di away.
We have to camp harder in this match than any other match in the game. Luigi is the best in-boxer in the game. You gotta be more like on outboxer with your tail and F-tilt. The shield slide is too much and when he goes in the air shield = good.
This is another "wait and punish" match-up for Luigi. Pikachu's D-smash has higher priority than all of Luigi's attacks and can be used as a defensive option against him. Otherwise, Luigi can work around Pikachu to defeat him. A lot of players worry about Pikachu's thunder attack, but it is easy to avoid by DI horizontally and air-dodging. Pikachu's projectile is cancelled out by Luigi's tornado and by his aerials, so it is not easy for Pikachu to camp Luigi with it. Additionally, Pikachu cannot combo Luigi to higher percents very well like he can against other characters. Try and bait your opponent into using moves with punishable lag. Pikachu's F-smash has noticeable start up lag, so just be aware of when it comes and it shouldn't be too hard to avoid it. Just be weary of the D-smash, which eats shields and has very little start up lag. Also Pikachu is a fairly good ledgeguarder and can be difficult to fight off stage. Overall this match up is fairly even, just be patient and work around your opponents more laggy moves.
This wasn't included in this, but Luigi's cyclone beats pikachu's side b.
Jab combos that need SDI to work
Jab to cyclone
jab to up b or grab
Jab combos that always work
jab to dsmash, ftilt, dtilt(needs to be the first hitbox of the jab to work)
Stages
BF
Ban
FD and any other flat stage pikachu can camp on.[/COLLAPSE]
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[COLLAPSE=Lucario]
#12: Lucario
Ratio:
55-45 Lucario's favor
The common Dair is dangerous if he's above you. the Fair is pretty homo, His aura sphere will be used to camp and his instant steriods (lmao) when hes behind in stocks.
He wins against ground game and projectile game. His fully charged or half way charged Aura sphere can be tricky against spotdodgers because they'll somewhat mess up on dodging it. Also it cancels out fireballs and tornado. He also wins in the air ONLY if hes below you because his upair > everything we got. Upsmash can stop a fully charged aura sphere
Personally, I thought Lucario sucked at gimping until I saw that I'm unable to camp holding the edge because a shorthop Dair leads to a stage spike forcing Luigi to either a ko or a rising tornado last resort move.
If anything,avoid yoshi's island because of Lucario's wall cling techique. Also avoid places with campers like FD, sometimes Smashville (although I'd pick this as a counter or whatever or a great startoff because I know how to abuse that moving platform decently). Probably I'd pick lylat cruise and battlefield because Luigi dominates purely there and its aerial combo heaven for him not to mention lylat tilts occasionally messing up Lucario's recovery. Maybe I'd like to avoid Delflino probably cus there's wall clinging stuff for Lucario and the mass amount of space the stage has that Lucario can use to camp
Lucario has amazing grap opportunities and powershielding makes me a little nervous to approach with short hopped nairs. I have found, however, that I can easily approach with the tornado as long as Lucario does NOT have a fully charged aura blast in store for me, considering it will clang against a weaker charge.
I feel that I cannot gimp Lucario no matter what I try to do. Lucario has great recovery, and wall of paining the back air does not seem to cut it for me at this point. It works at high percents, but I simply cannot gimp him. I do, however, think that Lucario is outmatched by Luigi in the air. I also think Lucario's floatiness is really a problem against Luigi, but you can juggle him very easily.
As far as stages go, I go with battlefield or lylat. Pretty much anything with platforms. Works wonders
Many of his aerials are pertty good, space well against uair, almost always expect two aerials per jump (usually nair as the second), and punish his recovery, his options are good in distance but really punishable.
his utilt is great for setups, and remember, he has crap-for-oos options since almost every attack pushes him away from you when he shields it, plus even if he PS's, his options are still meh.
His jab options are really good, I'd say all of them are somewhat viable at high level of play, but learning to play against them is key to avoiding.
Also, obviously his dthrow is good, but it will be hard to land the grab in the first place because of his lol shield sliding making shield grabbing a really hard option.
Luigi is a hard character to actually fight face to face. In the air, Luigi has a flat advantage. His Bair will out-range any attack you can throw at him from the air and trying to trade hits with him doesn't help either since his attacks do more damage then Lucario's. Luigi cannot approach you from underneath, because of Lucario's Dair, So he will try to swipe you from the side. On the floor, you have a slight advantage for your tilts and other sources of attacks out range his, but be weary on following up your attacks because he can break out of potential combos quite easily.
Luigi actually has no followup's and pure combos on Lucario. Lucario's ability to slide out of attacks makes it hard for Luigi to also follow up anything that might be a combo on normal characters. The best thing for Luigi to do would be able to do is to Dthrow Lucario at low %'s and then try to bait you into getting hit by another. Jumping out of most of Luigi's common follow ups will solve this problem, but keep in mind that you will have to switch it up to keep your opponent guessing on what you might do. Luigi also has the potential to kill Lucario at retardedly early percents. Lucario can Die to an angle'd Fsmash around 120 with proper DI. He die's earlier if you have improper Di (Obviously) Luigi's UpB can kill Lucario if he hits you around the 50% mark. Dsmash will kill late because of how you can input DI into that move, and Up smash around 135-145%.
In the projectile section, Luigi's is awful. AS beats Fireball out, and even without AS fireball isn't a scary thing. Luigi will most likely use them just for anti-air approaches.
Luigi's UpB
I want to clarify something right now about this. Jab > UpB is not a combo on every character, that is only a rumor. Allow me to explain:
Luigi's first jab has 3 different hit boxes, each sending a character at a set distance and at a set angle, despite of damage. At the end of Luigi's first jab, it will send you at a 30ish degree angle. IN the middle of the jab it will send you at a 60ish degree angle. At the very close range Jab, it will send you at a 90 degree angle. The 90 degree angle is what makes character fall into a potential UpB combo. Since it is a set distance, DI is not a variable after the first jab, so saying "You can DI it to avoid it" is a myth. The issue when this information was found, was that character falling speed was somehow left out. Now that is what makes Jab>UpB doesn't combo. Some characters fall too fast and can shield the the UpB. Other characters fall too slow, and because of that it gives enough time to DI away or into Luigi to make it miss. Lucario is one of the characters that fall too slow, so don't get caught by it
Gimping section:
Luigi has a good gimping game, not to mention a really good recovery. He can follow you out to death lines and come back without dying. Just a heads up.
Luigi's jabs is one of luigi's best weapons on the ground. If you get in up close it could hurt a lot... Luigi has a frame guaranteed dsmash, dtilt, or ftilt out of first jab on lucario, and if he hits with the more ranged hitboxes, he has a guaranteed up B or grab.
it's pretty straightforward match, Lucario (like every other opponent) has to space/camp like a mother****er, while Luigi works to get inside and do his thang and stuff. Luigi and Lucario go pretty head to head in the air, but like Luigi is his where he excels at, but IMO don't go head to head in the air. You'll either eat or trade off aerials.
My advice for a Lucario is to keep it grounded game. Lucario has excellent movement obviously because of that gayastic"roll". Lucario's other tools should consistent spacing Fsmash like a beast, but l'd advise that for saving kills.
my input would be lucario in flat stages for him to camp and space luigi. And use his silly roll and stuff. Luigi excels in platforms, for combo game and avoid some camping at times. Pretty straightforward, oh and avoid low ceiling since most luigis attacks are vertical.
jab combos that need SDI to work
jab to nair
Jab combos that always work
Jab to cyclone(needs to be the first hitbox of the jab to work)
jab to up b or grab
jab to dsmash, ftilt, dtilt
Stages for Luigi
BF
Lylat cruise
Ban
FD
Yoshi's Island
[/COLLAPSE]
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[COLLAPSE=Yoshi]
#13: Yoshi
Ratio:
50-50 even
What you DON'T want to do in this particular match-up is leave yourself open to any attack by Luigi. His f-smash and up-B are dangerous, even if they have short range. Only use your f-smash if you are 100% positive that it would hit him. Yoshi Bomb is a bad idea if he can shield it correctly. Also, d-smash could be dangerous to use if he powershields. N-air is also dangerous if you don't sweet-spot his shield or if he spot-dodges.
So, the moves that will kill Luigi in this match-up are:
U-air: Always safe to use if you position yourself correctly. Also, none of his air moves out-prioritize this move, so don't be afraid of a counter-attack.
Up-smash: Works extremely well if you are on the ground and he is in the air. No move of Luigi can out-prioritize this move, so use it to punish any aerial he may throw at you. It is safe on block, so use this freely on the ground, too. Just make sure he doesn't powershield it.
D-air: More like a gimp move, but it can be used to counter Luigi's Cyclone if he uses it as a recovery.
Luigi has:
Better combos, defensive game, approach, and KO moves.
Luigi's U-tilt, N-air, and Jab combos have better setup value than most of Yoshi's stuff. N-air -> Up-smash is a pretty reasonable threat, along with Jab -> lots of nonsense.
Luigi slides away a lot when he shields, so good luck pressuring him easily. The usual shield pressure mindgames with Yoshi like his Jab don't bother Luigi that much since he can stay safe by shielding.
Yoshi can't easily punish Luigi for approaching since Luigi is in the air a lot when he approaches, and since you can't jump out of shield, and N-air punishes spotdodges a lot. If he does an approach on the ground, it is Tornado, and will probably be used to punish the lag of Egg Toss.
Yoshi has more range on most attacks, but doesn't have as good of a result with most of them. Luigi is much less laggy on most of his stuff, so he has more flexibility in terms of options.
As for KO moves...Yoshi can sometimes get a U-air or Up-smash on a Luigi that gets too reliant on N-air for dropping down. Luigi however can also get a KO through his combos into random nonsense or because his F-smash and U-smash are good anti-air KO moves.
Basically, Yoshi wants to keep Luigi out, but can't do this consistently, and when Luigi gets in, he has a significantly higher advantage.
eggs beat fireballs and cyclone, pivot grab beats everything luigi does (except fireballs, but luigi's fireballs don't do much in this matchup when you can just egg them) , hes in the air trying to wall bairs? pivot grab. He's coming in with a cyclone? pivot grab.
Uair beats or trades hits with his dair, bair beats or trades hits with his bair, our nair is similar, but has a bigger hitbox, we can usmash through every airial except dair (which is easy to pivot grab, they are falling on top of you... what do you expect them to do? Usmash beats cyclone too.
Luigi isn't heavy, he will be dieing earlier then us (unless we get fsmashed/up b'd, but up b only works from 2 inches away and fsmash doesn't have much more range...). Don't go after his side b, misfire happens more than you'd expect, uair and usmash will be stale, but luigi likes to get inside of you... just land a yoshi bomb when he rolls or something.
The only reason this matchup might not be in our advantage, is that one small mistake offstage will get you cycloned and take away your second jump costing you a stock. Offstage, just think of cyclone as mk's nado except it will gimp you instead of hitting you up. Stay away from it, DJAD through it, what ever. Just don't get hit by it.
just thought I'd point out that luigi can jab-dsmash us, or even jab-upB if we happen to DI up or don't block right away. So while it doesn't have so much range, if he hits something's gonna happen.
Luigi can get out camped by Yoshi and his eggs.
Luigi can counter Yoshi's bair with his upsmash because of the hit box on Luigi's stomach.
Yoshi is in up b kill percent starting at 60%. It is possible to kill yoshi around 45% to 55% but good Di can save him.
Luigi has to watch out for Yoshi's upair, down b, Yoshi with a well timed grab can catch Luigi during a misfire and Yoshi will not get hurt at least I remember he doesn't get hurt.
Luigi has a short cg on Yoshi with Fthrow. The way this works is if Luigi does fthrow and buffers a dash. The cg ends at 18%.
Luigi doesn't have a lot of kill moves on yoshi since Yoshi has really good DI. The only kill moves Luigi has is fsmash, up b, misfire, and nair. The only other kill move is up tilt and upsmash, but yoshi has to be at high percentage. Also forgot to mention that Yoshi's bair has shield poke so Luigi should tilt his shield up so that it doesn't hurt him.
Just DJ away from Luigi once he gets in. He's too slow to stay with us as we're leaving. He should be getting a couple of hits in at a time when we're at low percents, but beyond that, if you're seriously being ****ed up once he gets in, think about what you're doing..
This match-up is scary against a good Luigi player, but as long as you play safely you shouldn't have too much trouble. You're going to need to be very precise so that you don't get punished, though.
As everyone has said, you need to camp Luigi. Don't bother ever approaching unless you're not in the lead anymore. He's basically Dedede with more dangerous kill moves and a far less annoying grab since he's so slow and gets camped hard (he has his Cyclone, though, so that helps him quite a bit since it's so fast). You'll want to bait Luigi into unfavorable positions (like him being above you) to make it easy to punish his movements. Luigi will try the same to you by attempting to apply constant pressure, but as was said before if you find yourself in a bad position try double-jumping away to reposition yourself. Luigi really can't do much about characters whose
air-speed match his own ground-speed.
So yeah, it's a problematic match-up when one of the least mobile characters is paired up against one of the most mobile. Mobility is the key to succeeding in this match-up. As long as you don't try to do anything stupid like dash-grabbing into Luigi from a neutral position (have fun getting up-B'ed), he really can't do much to you. I think Luigi's most reliable kill move in this match-up is his n-air, which can kill Yoshi around 145% if he keeps it fresh, I think.
Oh, one more thing. While recovering, Luigi's side-B can get beaten out by Yoshi's f-air. It takes really precise timing, though. Otherwise the f-air doesn't come out in time or they trade, and trading with Luigi is usually a bad thing, so only do it if you are sure you're going to net the kill.
Jab combos that need to SDI to work
jab to nair
jab to cyclone
jab to up b or grab
Jab combos that always work
Jab to dsmash, ftilt, dtilt(works only on the first hitbox of the jab)
Stages
BF
Frigate
Ban
FD
Halberd
Delfino plaza[/COLLAPSE]
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[COLLAPSE=Zerosuit samus]
#14: Zero Suit Samus
Ratio:
60-40 Zss' favor
I have played many Zamus's
Introduction:
Zamus is a moderately annoying matchup, mostly due to spacing and the electricity.
If the Zamus abuses her b move, both Luigi’s down b and B cancel it out.
The main problem for Luigi should be approaching Zamus
If you approach from the air, expect an up B or an up smash….or even an u-air or f-air
If you approach from the ground, forward b and down smash can cancel out this approach
Down b is quite a good move for Luigi to use in this matchup, if you space it right, it will hit Zamus’s Forward b and cancel it out. This is good for luigi since he can tap a out of it
If Luigi gets up close, Luigi is overall better. His aerials are better than Zamus’s. N-air and up air are great at combos. At high percentage, tap a to down air works well as well. If you can be unpredictable with throws, down air helps for combos
Luigi should kill quicker than zamus. F-smash is always good....up b kills are fine but dont' get to predictable. I like using sliding up smash when Zamus is on the edge for a suprise KO
Ground Spacing:
Who is better close range on the ground: Luigi, Aerials and throws are better than Zamus’s. Be careful with zamus’s down smash however, Back air is an excellent move here as well
Who is better at medium distance: Zamus, Luigi has difficulty approaching the forward b, at this range, this move can be abused
Who is better at long distance: without the suit parts, it is even….your fireballs and down b cancel out Zamus’s B. with suit parts, Zamus is better, high priority quick projectiles hit luigi hard.
Aerial spacing:
Fireballs and down b help for approach, if you can get close enough, aerials help, Back air is quite good here. Do not approach from too high due to Zamus’s up smash and up b. This is also a problem on Battlefield. Be careful approaching with platforms. Whoever is below on the platform will win through range and priority
How to attack ZSS armor:
Luigi has an excellent glide toss, if she throws a projectile, use it back. Otherwise air dodge, Luigi’s back air helps a lot here as well. It has just enough priority. Just don’t be predictable.
How to abuse recovery:
Luigi’s back air helps a lot vs. Zamus’s down b recovery. Be careful for Zamus spikes (space well). Fireballs also help. Play similar to playing against diddy’s recovery as well. If you go below, luigi’s down air works quite well as a semi-spike. Down airs also work fine and the occasional f-air gimp.
Be very careful recovering, Zamus’s forward b goes through your down b. Luigi has low priority for up b….Be warned for Zamus’s back air vs. your recovery. For forward b, Zamus can also forward b. Zamus might even go below your forward b and try to spike you with up b. Just be careful recovering.
Stages:
Neutrals:
Yoshi’s: Low ceilings make luigi look even better at KO’ing. Abuse platform “combos,” 55-45 luigi or 60-40 luigi, overall best neutral due to the small size for luigi
BF: Whoever is below will usually win…..Abuse up air on platforms. Luigi should have better spacing here so it’s probably better for luigi but very slightly, F-air seems work well well for luigi here. 55-45 Luigi
Smashville: Its large…but there is a platform. Not as many problems as FD. More space means Zamus is overall better here, 55-45 Zamus.
FD: worst neutral for this matchup. Zamus is way too good here at spacing. The odd FD ledges hurt luigi’s chances to recovery while allowing Zamus to use down b to stall on the edge. 60-40 Zamus
Counters for Luigi: Haliberd (Low ceiling), Green Green’s (Low ceiling, Frigate (Less areas for Zamus to grapple, less recovery chances). Any stage that’s small with a low ceiling is fine. BF and YI are good if you like neutrals. Other good stages are anything that abuses Zamus’s recovery.
Bans for Luigi: FD and Lylat…or any flat stage with a medium to high ceiling.
It seems like ZSS has a lot of advantages over luigi. Luigi's good priority in the air is mostly nulled by our better aerial priority, and his aerial attack speed isn't so useful due to superior spacing tools, and ground and air speed letting us pick the fights. We can jab his fireballs and spin.
Against his recover, while it's good distance wise, we can tack on solid damage by punishing it. Instead of challenging his rising down b, punish the substantial ending lag and knock him out, forcing him to side b which is also punishable. His up b is easily hoggable which will force him to land on stage, where you can bair him off again during his hefty landing lag.
1. space as far away with side B and Neutral B as possible
2.Punish him when he gets close with OoS Up tilt when he is in the air
3. Watch out for Tilted F smash at around 80% on
4. Take Advantage of your speed in the air and ground.
5. And always be ready for a really fast tornado.
You want to get inside.
She has lots of long disjointedness, but lacks it at a diagonal in front of her, so short hopped approaches are important. Like anyone you want to get inside, but you don't ever want to be standing directly in front of her. Dsmash is what you want to watch out for. It comes out very quickly and hits at her feet.
When gimping WATCH OUT for the downb. Most zamus' will use this alot, as it aides in recovery and spikes very hard. When off the stage, you never want to be directly below zamus. Also, dont just hang on the ledge. Ledgeguarding her is important, but make sure you're using your invinc frames.
Otherwise, stay away from fireball use. Bair is a good weapon. Don't chill out on platforms above her. When recovering from vertiacal, move laterally.
Most of the info here helps, but I'm going to try to add some info to this. I never played PatG or nickriddle. But I have played enough ZSS online and this exp has helped me against any ZSS mains that I have encountered in tourneys.
Luigi has to be careful when getting in because ZSS will just stop his advances with side b or well spaced Dsmashes. Use fireballs for both damage and for fakes so you can get inside. If the ZSS that you're fighting against uses side b or neutral b a lot bait it by running towards them then jump Dair, but don't FF the dair or you'll land in the tether of the side b. You can also do this with Nair.
Save your bthrow when ZSS is at high percents because ZSS is really good at DI and it won't kill her so just use Dthrow to nair or upsmash. Jabs are really useful, but don't expect to get up b since Zss is a fast faller and has short landing lag so it might work and it might not. Jab to cyclone can work, but only if ZSS DI into you. If you do manage to get the cyclone if ZSS airdodges do it again to rack up damage or at least punish the airdodge.
Also Jab to dsmash, dtlit, and ftilt always works on the first hit box of jab 1 and sometimes on the second hit box. Mix it up when you get the chance to do any of these moves.
1. you could spam jab1 to dsmash and rack up damage.
2. jab1 to dtlit at a high percentage it will cause Zss to bounce of the ground and try to buffer a upsmash or fsmash. Nair after dtilt they might not expect it.
3. Use jab1 to ftilt to create space. This can be your "get away from" move or use it to push ZSS to the edge and edge guard.
Most importantly jab cancel to jab cancel. By doing this not only do you get some damage on ZSS, but you could get a up b out of this if ZSS starts to DI away from you. Stop the jab cancel and they'll go in that direction, read it and up b as punish.
Lastly and I can't stress this enough. Be careful of dsmash to down b down b spike. I almost always fall for this because I tend to undermine the chances of it happening. Look out for it if ZSS hits you towards the edge and look out for it when you recover.
Stages
BF
Lylat cruise*
Ps1
Ban
FD
NOTE: Stages with a * beside them are debatable and mainly depend on personal preference and skill.[/COLLAPSE]
____________________________________________
[COLLAPSE=ROB]
#15: Rob
Ratio:
55-45 Rob's favor
The first thing on the beginning of the match, will be either a lazer ro your face or a charging up gyro or charging up and throw it immediately. It's usually the 2nd or 3rd option. The most problematic matchup is approaching here. If Rob or you approach, you'll eat unnesscary %.
If he throws the gyro, obviously take it because it'll cut his projectile game in half, and giving yours a temporily boost. And for your stupidity, do not throw it as soon as you get it. Make openings with fireballs, and learn how to glide toss with the gyro. Gliding toss luigi gives sexy results, he slides far and can lead to possible shoryukens, upsmashs and other stuff.
If you have to approach without the gyro and if he has it in his possession, just simply throw fireballs, SH aerials or empty SHs, or Z-catch it (I'm pretty sure luigi can Z-catch a item as well with no lag what so ever, get at me this later tho). Gyro's can be easily caught, but of course watch out for Rob's glide toss as it leads to things like Fsmashs. So again, just go with fireballs, well spaced Bairs and suprising tornados as it will wreck their spotdodge game. Rob's ftilt is the most problematic one since its what I believe disjointed, his best ground game spacer, and outranges everything luigi has on the ground and possible on the air. Tornado approach clank with his ftilt. Rob's won't keep ftilt forever though. Remember creativity will help you work inside Rob's range. Once your inside you'll rack up damage very quick.
Rob's approach option's actually suck. The only reliable approach option is either Fair or well placed Nair. You can shield his double Fair if he does it or do a upsmash OOS. Just make sure you watch out if he has a gyro. In general, both luigi and rob just have about near the same approach options.
Gyros/Lazers mess up your wreck recovery. He has a DAir spikes, and his other petty aerials. He can stage spike you too. The first thing you'll want to see is what he'll do and his habits. If he likes to shoot gyros/lazers, airdodge it that's if espically your very high offstage. Mix up on aiming for the sweetspot edge with your green missle, and slightly on the stage because he can dair spike you.
Once your inside his range. Luigi can take over this matchup. All your regular combos should work and getting him in the air is a no problem. His best GTFO moves are spotdodge+dsmash, Fsmash for the kills, Dtilts for the trips and that's about it. Jab Dthrows, follow DI/bait airdodge works wonders. If he decides to use a aerial, most likely it'll be a Nair which has start up lag so you can shield that. Dair Nair still works wonder just becareful in getting shield grabbed. Spaced bairs work. You must note that Rob's blind spots are from below and slightly behind him. These are spots where luigi highly excels. Upair strings to Nairs rack up damage very quickly. Utilt juggles to around a decent 30%.
Tornado has a much higher reward in this matchup than in others. Punish ROB with it for easy air setups, since ROB sucks once he goes in the air, and he sucks at getting back down. Not to mention he's horribly easy to punish if he goes to the edge.
Keep in mind however, he's good at punishing predicted Tornadoes. Watch out for lasers...powershield his lasers and then try to punish.
Up-smash is incredible in this matchup. Predict his DI and you can get one off really easy especially if you're good at outtiming air dodges.
So anyhow, watch out for lasers, and his tilts. Those are probably his hardest attacks to get past if he's smart about using them. And keep in mind, he can be a nasty juggler too. Getting regrabbed after a D-throw is not cool.
watch out for nair, dsmash, dtilt and lazers
jab cancels, using follow-up options (dsmash, tilts, upb etc) Is easier to use because of robs size and weight.if you manage to get a hold of the gyro you can glide toss into some deadly results like any smash attack, upb also...but that's more of a side note thing shouldn't always be going for the glide toss, too predictable.
ok if Rob ledgecamps, I usually wait for him to use his gyro. Once he throws it out, try to catch it to limit him and spam fireballs to put more pressure on him. The laser does have a recharge time so try to get him then. :O
Luigi vs. Rob:
Make sure your not gimped well.
As Biglou said….fireballs work pretty well and back air is great vs. his recovery. Up air works well on platforms and tap a combos work well.
If you get close, up b combos work well and so does down throw to up air.
Abuse platforms. Seriously, if you want to beat a good Rob on a neutral, Battlefield is your best bet. Up air on platforms help a lot. Either that or Yoshi’s due to the low ceiling
Best neutral is Battlefield or Yoshi’s
Worst neutral is FD by far probably followed by Smashville
Lylat is fine…if the stage is allowed for neutrals
Ban FD and Frigate Orpheon
Counterpick stages with a low ceiling or something that allows luigi to recover better by aid of hazards. I personally like Norfair, Haliberd, and for neutrals BF.
Rob- bait the spotdodge. Luigis jab comes out before rob can do anything out of the spotdodge so its pretty much an instant up b. I like to spam bair in this matchup, a well spaced bair beats robs nair. It also owns his recovery. Robs really easy to combo too. Fireballs can help in this matchup but robs fair can just swat it away, if your smart with it though it can set up for up bs.
In this match-up, Luigi must be moderately aggressive but also conscious of spacing himself properly so as to not get punished. R.O.B. has his Laser beam and Gyro projectiles; they cannot be stopped with fireballs but luckily are not spammable. The Gyro is canceled by your tornado. Beware of horizontal recovery as R.O.B.'s F-air can gimp you pretty easily. Also, his ground attacks have very little start up lag; they come out at you lighting quick, especially his D-smash. U-smash is also very deadly. He is heavier and can be juggled fairly well, but be weary of his D-air. Most of your aerials have higher priority as well, so take advantage of fighting in the air. Note that it is very difficult to edgeguard against R.O.B. as his recovery is extremely versatile. For the most part the match-up is even, but R.O.B. does have a slight advantage in his recovery and ability to gimp yours.
ROB's Advantages:
Luigi slides a lot. Down smashing his shield is safe.
ROB outranges luigi by a lot. Camp hard, tilt a lot.
Good edgeguarding game.
ROB's Disadvantages:
Luigi can combo ROB pretty hard because he's floaty and his aerials are so fast.
Forward smash also kills early. About 90% pre hit with good DI if tilted up.
Luigi can also air dodge to the ground almost seamlessly, if he does this expect him to grab or attack immediately. If he gets in on you I simply recommend rolling away -- it'll minimize the combo.
What ROB should try to do:
Camp and poke until mid-high percents. Then edgeguard. Be wary of misfires (Fair out prioritizes a misfire though, you just have to react); avoid combos, don't spotdodge/airdodge predictably or you'll eat an early death. Don't be above luigi -- obvious I would think. Upair beats everything he has if he approaches from above. Constantly space by moving in and out of ftilt range. Note that attacking his shield is especially safe.
Counterpicks :
ROB should pick Frigate Orpheon.
Bans:
ROB should ban Battlefield or Halberd. Always strike Battlefield first.
Preferred Neutral:
I think Final Destination is our best neutral for this matchup. I don't like Yoshi's Island, but I don't think it's ban worthy.
Jab to Nair works only if ROB SDI into Luigi
Jab to Cyclone always hit ROB if it hits on the first hit box of the jab.
Jab to Up b almost always works, but if the jab hits on the 3rd hit box it might not work
Jab to grab is the same as Up b
Jab to Dsmash, Dtilt, and Ftilt work the same way as Up b and Grab
Stages for Luigi
BF
SV
Yoshi's Island
Ban
Frigate
FD[/COLLAPSE]
____________________________________________
[COLLAPSE=Game and watch]
#16: Game and Watch
Ratio:
55-45 G&w's favor
This is a match where it pays off to play defensively. You need to be more cautious about using fireballs in your approach/projectile, as he can bucket them (G&W's Down-B, the bucket, catches projectiles. After it catches 3 projectiles, it becomes a powerful attack). Instead of using your fireballs as a projectile or a tool in an approach, use it to set up combos. Even if the G&W does bucket it, the Fireball is a surprisingly good set-up attack for combos. Note that when G&W buckets one of your fireballs, he has considerable lag; this is an opportune moment to use Up-b (if he is greater than 45%) This may cause your opponent to be wary of catching fireballs and you could turn some mindgames on him. Additionally, G&W has a number of good options to use against you, whether in the air or on the ground. It is important to play defensively and find openings to attack, as G&W is extremely light and is very susceptible to a FireJumpPunch or an Up-angled F-smash. You may also notice that, unlike other characters, G&W does not seem to be able to block after a quick jab. This can be used to your advantage with a Jab > Up-B combo. Patience is key in this match; look for the ending lag on G&W's moves (especially his ground moves) and then proceed to punish. Be aware of G&W's projectile (chef) as an edguard, they will cancel out your tornado and hurt your recovery. Also note that your aerials come out faster than his, but his D-air and B-air should be avoided. Also take note of G&W's F-Air; not his best move but not to be overlooked either. Spacing your aerials is crucial; don't leave yourself open for punishment because of lag in the air. Luigi can do two aerials in one SH, so you can "fake" the first and land a second. In this case, N-air is very effective, as it will open up a few options for you. Your U-tilt becomes less useful in this match, as it puts him in good position to use his D-air. A more ground-based approach in this match-up might work as many of G&W's ground attacks have very punishable lag. Overall this match is about playing conservatively; stay on the defensive and wait for the opportune time to attack.
Priority and range are not luigi's forte at all. If anything his tornado has the most priority of his attacks. Bair probably has the most range, but not enough priority to pierce gw's attacks.
His main kill moves are probably the fsmash and up b. Beyond that nairs, upsmash/dsmashes, misfires, and maybe bairs will make up the rest of his kills. Mainly you need to watch out for the first two, up b will kill you at 40% on most stages, and the fsmash probably in the 70's.
Luigi probably can't edgeguard you very well. Fireballs work against most characters to pressure them, but those can be bucketed off stage. Nair/Up b will probably be able to take out any aerial attempts.
Luigi can be tricky to edgeguard, your best bet is probably to dair him on his way up, fair attempts off the stage will work to interrupt his side b as well.
Bucket with caution, if at max range, or if your on a platform, you might be able to avoid taking serious damage, but if your too close, the up b will find its way to you. When off the stage, you are likely to only take an aerial for bucketing.
Make sure you up b to get out of his combos, its your best bet. Don't worry about trying to interrupt him with keys, just regroup and start pressuring at range again.
Remember that the dtilt can help if you want to play defensively.
Game and Watch is so-so. You're disadvantages- G&W has insane smash attacks and pretty good aerials.
You're advantages- G&W is very lightweight. So you should be able to KO each other around the same %. G&W might have some great aerials, he doesn't have as much aerial mobility as you, so the trick is is to see things like the bair coming and simply getting out of the way. You can't punish his bair, but in the long run that's okay.
I am a Luigi main and I will like to put in a little bit of input
Luigi's Slide works both ways. It helps him out of combos but makes it harder for him to punish opponents with definite note to game and watch's f-smash and Down Smash.
GaW Strengths
GaW smashes over luigi smash's in terms of priority
Down air has INSANE priority
Up Smash over Luigi Down air
At longer ranges, Luigi can't fireball camp due to Bucket
Better recovery overall than Luigi in terms of abusing it.
Luigi Floatiness + Game and Watch Float Moves (up air, up B) = annoyance.
Better overall Priority.
Up tilt combos don't work well vs lighter chars like game and watch.
If your opponent can't DI out of turtles abuse it.
Luigi Strengths
He is heavier and can escape aerial combos due to floatiness.
Up B Kills ridiculously fast.
Tilted F-Smash kills Game and watch incredibly fast and is an incredibly good shield poke
Back air helps immensely
Game and Watch's Shield is Horrible. Abuse it Well.
Luigi's N-air also kills well and does reasonably well vs all of Game and Watch's aerials.
Better recovery in terms of range
Grab combos don't work well vs Luigi.
DI out of the turtle, PLEASE.
Game and Watch strategies: Abuse your hitboxes. Abuse Game and Watch's priority. Abuse Down air and the extra hitboxes.
Luigi strategies: When you need a Kill, GET IT. Up B combos, Back air, N-Air, and F-Smash are incredibly good at killing. DI out of the turtle.
Game and Watch stages
Anything without a short ceiling. ban Haliberd. For neutrals, ban Yoshi's due to lower ceiling or Lylat. BF is a good stage or any stage with a good high ceiling like FD.
Luigi Stages: ban any stage with a high ceiling. I personally ban FD.
yoshq said:
I don't use luigi for this matchup, it's too hard. Tips I have are use jab upb and jab mindgames in general... all you can do against his dair is oos jab or dsmash... you can't do **** vs his nair, bair you can sdi and nair. Grab comboes are your friend, you can't edgegaurd him, or counter his smashes. Use fireballs sometimes as mindgames, if you know they're going to bucket you can walk up and upb in their lag. Nado is probably your best move in this mu...
SDI G&w bair because that moves does a lot of damage. Move the control stick up and down rapidly you should end up behind g&w.
Jab1 to up b is guaranteed on the first hitbox.
Jab to dmash, dtilt, and Ftilt always work.
You actually can counter G&w's dair with a well spaced bair after he does it and use up tilt as a quick kill move or at least a "get out of my face" move
Stages
BF
SV
Ban
FD
YI[/COLLAPSE]
____________________________________________
[COLLAPSE=Ike]
#17: Ike
Ratio:
55-45 Ike's favor
Use Fireballs, everytime, until he is forced to approach you.
Luigi's main strategy should be "wait and punish." Many of Ike's moves have considerable ending lag and are highly susceptible to punishment. Although Ike greatly outranges you with his sword, you never have to approach him; keep pressure on with fireballs until he approaches you, then launch your attack on his ending lag. If your opponent refuses to approach you can do an empty SH and Double jump backwards avoiding any attack, and then punish the lag. Note that in this match-up, spamming fireballs is of great use, as Ike has no way to counter it. His F-smash, though deadly if it connects (can kill you at 40%, but can be survived up to 60% if DI'ed properly) has a large amount of ending lag, leaving him open to a Fire Jump Punch, which kills Ike at 60%. Because Ike is heavy, he is easily juggled and combo'ed into higher percents. It is also fairly easy to edgeguard Ike's recovery; push him offstage with B-airs. To gimp his Foward-B recovery all you have to do is be in front of him and airdodge at the right time; he will strike out at you, miss, and fall short of the edge. Ike's jab combo is vital for him in this match (because of Luigi's fireballs), but it forces him into a very predictable pattern. Note that Ike's jab has higher priority than a fireball or a tornado, but clanks with U-tilt. Overall, this match is about being patient and playing intelligently. Spam fireballs, gimp his recovery, and punish punish punish!
The main problem is landing a KO move on Ike because it's fairly unsafe to completely miss him due to his long range and high KO power on other moves, and his Jab combo does outspeed your KO moves.
Recovering from below is BEGGING for a D-Tilt spike, and if you're sloppy, Ike can D-Air spike you.
Fireballs are used to annoy an Ike who keeps waiting for you to rush into his moves. But if you fireball carelessly you do make yourself an easy target(in contrast to spamming aerials carelessly, you don't actually give a lot of openings), so you need to use them sparingly. They aren't an all-dominating projectile to be used aggressively. Luigi is as fast as hell in his attacks, but he doesn't have high mobility outside of the tornado.
Not a lot of info on ike but I'll try to sum it all up.
-Fireballs can be used to force Ike to approach, but it will only help you punish moves.
-You can combo ike, but be careful since some of the ike's that I have played manage to squeeze out a nair and or a strong move. Also Ike will use counter stop any more combos.
- Always stay alert when playing ike because one wrong move and fsmash or Upsmash will take one of your stocks.
- mix up recovery options since Ike can stop Luigi from sweet spotting the edge with Fair.
- Not a lot of our jab follow ups work on Ike. Most of them are only possible if Ike SDI into us. We can Jab to Cyclone, Up b, Dsmash, dtilt, and Ftilt.
- Because of Ike's weight we have a short Fthrow CG till 20%, but you can mix it up since two grabs will get Ike to 20%. You can consider the 2nd grab as a free grab to do a combo of your choosing.
Stages
BF
Ban
FD[/COLLAPSE]
____________________________________________
[COLLAPSE=Toon Link]
#18: Toon Link
Ratio:
55-45 Toonlink's favor
Toon Link has the spamy arrows, bombs, and the boomerang. Don't underestimate his projectiles espically the boomerang, as it can go pretty far distance. The projectiles may tick you off but try to keep your cool.
The reason I say the projectiles are only a minor hassle is because all of Luigi's aerials can cancel or catch all of Toon Link's projectiles(and catching a bomb with a fair is faster than an airdodge too), and he can't spam projectiles faster than Luigi can attack nor does it put Luigi in a bad position. In addition, an aerial tornado will eat boomerangs and arrows and on the ground will clank with everything else Toon Link has except bombs. This means a shorthop aerial can cancel one projectile while giving you flexible spacing and no punishable lag, a falling aerial tornado can cancel out a second projectile and Luigi can tornado towards the opponent where at best the third attack or projectile will clank.
In addition, the aerial tornado's priority over Link's projectiles counters the effect of projectiles aiming at Luigi while off the stage. When you're off the stage Link's projectiles are a problem because they will interrupt your attempts to green missile for distance, you'll lose height quickly and fall to your death. However instead of come in low with the green missile and using the second jump, tornado and up-B to rise back up to the stage, a second jump to a rising tornado both gives you defense against projectiles and lifts you out of his projectile zone so you can fall and charge a green missile to sweet spot the ledge or come over the stage.
Toon Link is one of the few characters that can potentially successfully ledge hog a green missile sweetspot through his tether recovery invincibility, and that means you need to be prepared to up-B after the green missile, or sometimes it means you can end up underneath the lip of the stage on the green missile lag. These last two points- link's tether edge hogging and projectiles gimping your recovery.
Toon Link's aerials aren't so much as better than Luigi's Aerials as they are equal. Both Luigi and Toon Link have fantastic aerials. For the most part, Toon Link's Aerials aren't as fast as Luigi's because they have more after-lag, his bair being the exception. But in the Air Toon link out ranges Luigi with some of his aerials.
Boomerang and Arrow clash with Luigi's tornado. Don't pull out a bomb near Luigi or you'll be punished pretty hard, pull it out when away.
Also, Luigi kills us at 73% with F-smash angled up.
Reverse Aerial rush Bair is a good way to approach. Use the tornado or just hit and run with tornado to stop Toon link's camping.
obviously any flat stage TL excels on and anything with platforms helps luigi with some combo game.
Best Stage to fight Luigi on:
Worst Stage to fight Luigi on:
Luigi has very good aerials. His upair is a very deadly juggling tool, his nair is a frame 3 gtfo move with a lot of priority, his fair has almost no cooldown lag, his back air has a lot of range and his dair is also very good and can spike.
Toon Link must play very careful and not use any lag inducing moves even less than in other matchups. Never ever try to grab in this matchup as it will lead to an early upB kill for Luigi if you happen to miss. The risk outweighs the reward, even if you are sure that you will grab him do not do it and go for something else.
Our projectiles give him a lot of trouble when he is trying to approach. Luigi will often try to get past your projectiles with his downb (tornado) because it travels fast and cancels arrows. Just throw a bomb at him if he's doing that or zair him out of it, you can also shield it and nair OoS. He might also approach with short hopped fireballs.
What gives Luigi a lot of trouble in the matchup is getting past our projectile brickwall (mainly angled up boomerang for aerial approaches and bombs/arrows/forward rang/zair for ground approaching) without eating a lot of damage in the process
Ban stages with platforms like battlefield/Halberd as it aids Luigi in his combo/juggling game. Counterpick flat stages with a lot of space to keep our camping game going like Final Destination and Delfino Plaza. If you get hit by his jab at 50 to 60 percent, make sure to DI it down or away.
Luigi vs. Toon Link: Intro
Another spacing based match…..the good thing is that the majority of your move prevent toon link’s projectiles from hitting. Ill go over each of TL’s projectiles and how to get through them
Moves that cancel out Toon link’s arrow/boomerang: Back air, Down air, original hit box of n-air
The other way of getting around them is through your own projectiles, by air dodging,
and by down b. Fireballs are very useful for arrows and down b stalls with TL’s Boomerang. Air dodge over the bombs or approach them right. You can also use your fireballs vs. Toon Link’s bombs to hit them slightly, causing them to explode on a slightly different angle.
How to deal with Toon Link’s aerials:
Your back air has better range and better priority than Toon Link’s Back air. If you do get hit, jump back and down air. If your opponent doesn’t space right, you can also, fast fall N-air at low percentages.
Similarly, Your back air beat’s toon link’s n-air. Fireballs work here as well
If toon link approachs from too high with a back air, up air
Toon link’s down air has high ending lag, if you want to trade hits, your up smash will trade hits with Toon Link’s down air. Also, although harder to hit with, Luigi’s f-smash can also be used here to trade hits.
Do not get right above toon link or in a space where toon link’s head is where your feet are. This leads to Z-air’s and up airs. Toon Link’s up air is really useful in this matchup, as it has just high enough priority to be nuisance and to prevent Luigi from approaching with down airs.
Always watch out for z-air combos. Z-air to up smash is a great combo for Toon Link to finish off. I’ve seen this as one of Toon Link’s main finishers to floaties like luigi. Z-air leads to virtually all aerials for Toon Link and it has just enough hitstun to allow these combos. The majorty of your moves outprioritize the z-air, so abuse them well. I normally like using fireballs vs. Z-air spamming toon links.
Recovery:
Luigi vs. Toon Link’s recovery: Toon Link’s up b has moderately low priority. Luigi’s down air helps tremendously. Also, it is possible for luigi to down smash toon link if he goes above the ledge. This seems more possible on slanted stages like Yoshi’s Island and Lylat. Back air works vs. Toon Link’s z-air recovery. Fireballs to space and repeat back airs and down airs. Be careful going off the stage due to the projectiles. Toon Link’s bombs might be a problem off stage. If he holds a bomb…force him to recover below the stage. Grab the ledge, force toon link to either up b or throw the bomb. If Toon Link throws the bomb….fall down and down b. Down b knocks toon link away similar to diddy….but its less useful than the diddy matchup.
Toon Link vs. Luigi’s recovery: Toon link can use projectiles to force luigi to use his forward b or down b. Toon Link’s n-air and back air work well vs. Luigi’s recovery. Toon Link can also go below the stage, allow luigi to recover above him, and then up air. Luigi’s down b has low priority, so many of Toon link’s moves go right through. Watch out for z-air regrabs when using up b
Killing moves and “combos”:
For luigi, f-smash tilted kills at incredibly low percentages. Like normal, up b combos should only be used when possible. N-air kills at moderately low percentages. Back air provides gimps. Up Smash is also quite useful for kills. Up tilts are also possible kills.
For Toon Link: Z-air to up smash, f-smash and various boomerang and bomb combos are the normal kills. Expect Z-air to up smash for kills….a lot.
Up tilt combos at low percentage and down throw up air is very useful at lower percentages. Sneak in throw combos when you can because they are very useful.
Luigi excels at close range vs. toon link. Get right up and close while spacing vs. back airs.
Toon link excels at long range and can kill from short to medium range.
Stages:
Toon Link kills vertically pretty well. Stay away from huge stages or high ceiling stages. Platforms are fine but be careful for platform combos.
Neutrals:
Lylat Cruise: Probably better for Luigi, the odd incline is good and bad. The bad is due to the odd down smash “glitch” of toon link and that fireballs are weaker here. Its good due to Luigi being able to down smash toon link’s recovery and the slant helps vs. the majority of projectiles. The height of the stage is a moderate issue.
Yoshi’s: Very low ceiling and one main platform. The curve of the stage similar to Lylat allows the down smash “glitch.” Probably my favorite neutral or second favorite vs. toon link because of the height and the small boundaries. Toon Link can’t space too well here and Luigi’s back air kills well here
Battlefield: Good stage, a whole lot of platforms, problem is the moderately high ceiling. Platforms allow good platform combos such as with down throw. Fireballs aren’t as useful here and the stage is not curved so you shouldn’t worry about down smash problems. Toon Link has moderate problems using projectiles here due to the platforms. Overall best neutral for Luigi in this matchup and a viable counterpick as well
Smashville: Here is where you enter the flat stages. There is a platform but is small and it doesn’t always help. It is better to play on than FD. It is not so large like FD that the projectiles are an incredible nuisance. Also, *balloon pop*
Final Destination: The best stage ever for projectile users. Toon Link uses projectiles. Combine the 2 and you have a really good stage for toon link. The huge boundaries allow toon link to survive forever and the curved inside forces luigi to recover differently. Not recommended. I ban this stage simply from the size.
For counterpicks, go with stages that either have low-ish ceilings, a stage that is not flat, and a stage that has a lot of platforms, or a stage that messes with Toon Link’s recovery. I am a big fan of Norfair if the stage is allowed and Frigate Orpheon. If you believe you can kill the toon link quicker, haliberd is fine but the height of the stage is low enough that even toon link will be killing at low percentages. Other possible choices are Brinstar and Battlefield/Yoshi’s if you like neutrals.
Overall: Your killing quicker but toon link has better spacing. If Toon link had better priority/range or if Luigi had a much better approach, this matchup would go to the respected side. 50/50. Even.
Jab to Nair works on TL only if he SDI's into you. Very helpful at high percents.
Jab to Down B works on TL only if he SDI's into you.
jab to Shoruyken always works on the first hit box of jab. If any other hit box hits it will only work if TL SDI's into you.
Jab to Dsmash, Dtilt, and Ftilt always works on both Hit box 1 and 2. Hit box 3 needs SDI to work
Stages
BF
Yoshi's Island(brawl)
Ban
FD
Delfino
[/COLLAPSE]
____________________________________________
[COLLAPSE=Fox]
#19: Fox
Ratio:
55-45 Fox's favor
Stage Striking: Battlefield, Yoshi's Island(brawl)
Stage Banning: Brinstar
Stage CP'ing: FD, PS1,
Luigi:
Jab Frame 2
AAA Frames 2, 3, 5
U-tilt Frame 5
D-tilt Frame 5
Nair Frame 3
Fair Frame 7
Dair Frame 10
Bair Frame 6
Uair Frame 5
Fsmash Frame 12
Dsmash Frame 5 *Front* Frame 14 *Back*
Usmash Frame 9
Up-B Frame 6
Approach/Ground Game/Killing: Your approach to luigi is to camp, Don't hit him with dash attack below 40%, it will result in you getting Nair'd before you shield and/or U-tilt. You can have a jab battle with him but be careful,he jabs just as fast as you do and his jab has slightly more hitstun. Dthrow him early to rack up massive damage. Lasers lasers lasers, again this opens him up alot and must be abused in this match-up. Shield grabbing luigi is highly reccommended as well. JJC'ing is a problem too because he can't hit you back before you start another JJC so if you connect with the first one shine afterwards(JJCS). Once you hit him with that he'll get sent flying and now you can start you laser game all over again.U-smash is your answer, and since luigi has these wacky physics to him using Dair to trip him into U-smash is easier than normal.
Laser Technique: SHDL
Summary: Play the camp game, Dance around him to open holes, NO JJC'ing instead use JJCS. Grab ALOT, U-smash is you kill answer.
Defense: Your defense is your approach technically. seriously don't be afraid to just run away. Your too fast and luigi can't catch up Defensive moves like F-tilt are great, as soon as your in F-tilt range just hit him with it and he'll get sent flying. It's a great spacing tool so use it.
Aerial Game: In a aerial confrontation Fox leaves the ground faster than luigi does. Hitting luigi with fair is awesome and there is not much luigi can do about it. Multi hit moves hurt him a lot, spacing Uair underneth luigi is great, and it may even get you a KO. Both of your Bair's look like they have the same range but here's the catch since luigi has crazy aerial manuverability his bair's are edge guarding tools as to your bair is a KO shot. Stay away from his Uair and Fair they both are crazy combo tools. All in all you don't have to meet him in the air if you don't want to. Just run underneth him or SHDL everytime he is in the air.
Edge Game: You can't play the edge game against luigi it's that simple. You can time his options of recoveries that he has though and find a way to shine him to death. His edge game is crazy and he has several options edge guarding you if you recover wrong. Just get back onto the stage as fast as you can because luigi can make quick work with wrong decisions on the ledge.
I actually got to play Nakat so most of the info here is right. Luigi's best way to counter Fox's short hop laser is to punish him before he lands with down b. Then from there we have to stay inside pounding on fox.
None of our Jab combos work on Fox because he falls to fast but don't be afraid to pull them out since your opponent might not shield it. Jab cancel to Jab still works. Also because of Fox's weight we can fthrow chaingrab him to 20%. Lastly Fox has RCO lag so if he does side b onto the stage or grabs the edge with Up b or side b be ready to up b his landing lag.
Stages
BF
Bans
FD[/COLLAPSE]
____________________________________________
[COLLAPSE=Wolf]
#20: Wolf
Ratio:
55-45 Wolf's favor
his blaster beats everything we have, so our only approach options are shielding/dodging or a short hopping aerial approach, both of which are somewhat predictable.
Luigi's up b kils around 60%
Luigis :
Floaty, overall better air game, craptard ground game compared to wolf's, combos, slightly safer recovery.
Wolfs:
Superior ground game, better defensive options, ***** hard with range.
At most, luigi's problems is mostly wolf's ground game and specifcally, ftilt, fsmash, blaster. At times, wolf's shine can break some combos out of luigi's. The problem is that if you are going to follow up a combo after you've landed a shine, luigi's traction screws himself over and slides too far.
There is like no info on this mu at all so I'll add some more info. I've only played two wolf mains pane and Seagullman.
Wolf can really put up a wall on us with his lasers, but Luigi can approach by powershielding or at least shielding the lasers. Mix in some jumping with the shielding and bair, fireball, dair, or down b to attack wolf. OOS options work too as you approach wolf. Be cautious though because Wolf will see that you're approaching and he'll attack you with a Bair or Fair. Don't ever try to approach with down b because Wolf can just shine it. Also try to keep your cool in this match up because most of the time when you start comboing wolf he'll just shine it breaking the combo.
jab to grab really helps in this match up for combos because even though none of our jab to(dsmash, up b, or etc) work we can still do this since it won't be blocked. Just don't be surprised if wolf pulls a shine in the middle of the combo. Just like fox and other heavy characters we have a short fthrow cg on Wolf up till 20%. Also do jab to ftilt. It may and may not work, but it creates space between you both when it does work.
This is where it gets tough to stay inside. Once you're inside rack up some damage with up tilt juggling and finish with Upsmash then get out before Wolf shines you. Bair can be a major problem when wolf isn't shooting lasers since a good wolf will space it right and it will hit you all of the time. The only way Luigi can counter the bairs is to either predict it, jump away, and counter with an aerial of your own or Powershield it to grab. Fireball can be used against wolf, but only as a fake to get him to shield or reflect the fireball. Wolf sometimes fsmashes or dsmashes after a bair landing so be careful of that.
Once wolf is around 60% look for the up b. NO not jab to up b it won't work because wolf will either shine or shield it. I would recommend air dodge into up b or dodge to up b. But if you have foresight like boss you could up b wolf during his roll. Also fsmash kills wolf around 90% and upsmash kills wolf around 110%.
At edge: When you're sent off stage use Luigi's missile to move towards the stage and if you can sweet spot the stage, but chances are wolf will shoot lasers to interrupt your recovery and wolf can stop Luigi's side b with bair. Rising cyclone isn't a bad choice to recover, but rise gently and not too much otherwise you'll eat a dsmash from wolf(Seagull got me with this and I was O_O never knew wolf could do that). Up b works to just be careful of RCO and try get back on the stage safely. Get rid of the RCO with a landing nair or a short hop since its much more safer than a hard landing with 30 frames. This is just asking wolf to kill you. At high percents(100%) don't be afraid to get up attack since this move has range and is like a "Give me some space" move.
Wolf is at the edge: There are three things you can do
1. Stay near the edge and wait for wolf to get back on the stage and attack him with a nair or dair. Doesn't matter if the nair is lagged you get some damage.
2. shoot fireballs, but don't stand to close to the edge or wolf with come back on the stage reflecting the fireballs into your face.
3. When wolf is coming towards the stage use luigi Cyclone to mess up his recovery. If you don't know how to do this look at Samboner v.s Amari.
Lastly as wolf gets back on the stage if he used up b or side b to grab the edge. He will have some RCO lag on him so try to watch where Wolf lands and fsmash him or up b him.
Stages
BF
Ban
FD[/COLLAPSE]
____________________________________________
[COLLAPSE=Donkey kong]
#21: Donkey Kong
Ratio:
55-45 DK's favor
Things to watch out for-
-Double aerials
-Fireballs (better than you think)
-Nair break
- Jab cancels
-SHORYUKEN!!!!!!!!!
Luigi can basically keep connecting moves until you are around 50% and then he's going to go for more grab combos.up tilt will be his main juggle move then he'll take to the air and hit you with a couple up aerials. You'll want to spam bair all day long. luigi can't punish bair because of how far he slides and if he unshields to tornado you can f tilt before he reaches you or you can bair again. just spam bair.
Killing power for luigi is sooooo good it's not even funny. up angled Fsmash and Shoryuken can kill DK before he even reaches 80%. what's even worse is that jab cancels lead up to these moves and luigi gets us to that % really fast with his combos. sometimes luigis will bait a grab by attacking your shield with one aerial and then backing off so they can F-smash you. you should not have to worry about this because DK can actually punish luigi's shield pressure. as soon as he hits your shield with an attack you should shield drop to a aerial.
DK outranges Luigi on the ground, take the fight into the air. At least from there you don't have to deal with a Headbutt+Pitfalled => FSmash/Giant Punch Combo. Some of DK's Aerials, like his BAir, NAir and UAir are as fast as yours, so try to get him in front.
Recovery is where it get s a little hairy. Always try to stay above DK, that means even the side somewhat hinders you. Your BAir < His BAir because it outranges you (I think, otherwise they're equal) and recovering from below literally asks you to be DAir Spiked.
DK has some decent range on the ground and has some big hitboxs espically for his smashs. Take it to the air by starting off with a tornado or Dthrow. juggle him with u-tilts, then combo him with aerials Fair,Nair,Dair, Bair. Throw fireballs at DK so you can pressure him and he'll be forced to approach you.
Learn to tech off the stage when he does the cargo throw, I'm pretty sure every good DK main does that. The one I play against does, but I've learned how to tech the stage so I don't get spiked and die. Luigi can recover anywhere if he techs the stage, even on the bottom.
Just to add more info to this. Watch out for the Charge punch because DK players like Will just use it to counter your moves since a fully charged punch has super armor. Also DK has awesome DI so try to kill with Up b, fsmash, or upsmash.
Jab combos that Need SDI
Jab to Nair
Jab to Cyclone
Jab to Shoruyken
Jab combos that don't need SDI
Jab to Dsmash, Ftilt, Dtilt. (has to be hitbox 1 to work)
Stages
BF
Ban
Delfino
Yoshi's island (brawl)[/COLLAPSE]
____________________________________________
[COLLAPSE=Kirby]
#22: Kirby
Ratio:
55-45 Kirby's favor
Kirby has a great aerial game almost relatively equal to Luigi's and has a great ground game as well. Throwing a shorthop fireballs and some grounded fireballs can pressure Kirby and forcing him to approach you. Also a SH fireball to a tornado is a great racking up damage as well as utilts.
You must approach carefully when their near the edge because they can inhale you, drop down and spit you out underthe stage where you can't possibly recover or they'll just suicide.
Also Kirby's pretty lightweight and Luigi has alot of killing power against Kirby espically with his shoryuken. It kills Kirby around 41% so that's pretty early. Watch out for Kirby's Fsmash and hammar as they can kill and have decent range
Approaching him: Might as well use the Fireball/Tornado Approach
Kirby is an aerial monster much like Luigi, his FAir can't be Air Dodged for the whole duration and his BAir is much like your BAir, except your BAir slightly outranges Kirby to a small amount. Use it.
Don't stay on the ground too much. Kirby's FSmash lunges forward and has a deceptive hitbox. DThrow into FAir/BAir=>UAir. Keep him above or behind you. The occasional NAir will screw up momentum for Kirby.
DO NOT LET HIM COPY YOUR ABILITY; Heck, don't even let him inhale you. He's a lot better at spamming your Fireballs. Dodge Final Cutter and the projectile if necessary and Punish with a FIRE PUNCH (If you're close enough!) Or a grab or an FSmash.
Don't even try to edgeguard him. If you're gonna try, try a DAir Spike; you might get lucky and KO him off the side instead.
Kirby’s Pros and Cons:
+ Great gimper.
+ Solid defensive options
+ Strong kill moves
- Light = lower % kills
- Lack of useful projectile
Luigi's Pros and Cons:
+ Lightness helps avoid chaingrabs
+ Spammable projectile
+ Useful repertoire of moves
- Crappy recovery
- Predictable approach
- One/Two kill options
- Lightness = early kills as well
Watch out for:
Angled Up FSmash – It's his kill move, incredibly predictable but fast and deadly. Once you reach that 80% range, make sure to limit aerial approaches to insure a longer life.
NAir – Out of inhale, or even as an approach; it's fast and combos into itself easily. Kirby's Ftilt is useful to counter this attack.
Luigi Cyclone. It helps Luigi in recovery and as an approach, and has a surprisingly long duration. Kirby AAA jab combo beats/ clashes.
Fireballs – Don't eat damage unnecessarily.
UpB – Shoyruken!! Get *****. Or once you get to 80% avoid the aerial approach when possible.
How to win:
Gimp. – Do it. Luigi gets beat by Dair spike, or rock, or hammer. Use Dair spike though to avoid any chance of possible recovery.
Grab and jab – Grabs is a easy way to rack damage especially with a pummel thrown in for lulz. Dont bother chaingrabbing as Nair comes out extremely fast and with Luigi's general lightness you won't get the second grab.
Spit out or Swallow?
It's your choice. Spit for the added damage or gimp set-up off stage, or swallow and have an effective approach/ defensive option. Watch out for the Nair that follows a copy of Luigi's power.
YI – Easy killing as far as gimping goes. The small indent helps to avoid fireballs while the platform gives you a way to approach without eating too much damage.
FD – Flat and open is never fun. It's not really bad though since it limits Luigi's approach as much as it hinders Kirby's.[/INDENT]
all kirby has to do is bair.....and luigi cant do anything....GG
The hard part about dealing with Luigi is that we have to stop our habits of running up to the opponent and continuing our strings, since your nair either clashes with us or beats us while we're starting up attacks due to how fast it is. We have to hit you guys at small intervals, so that you don't nair and hit us but we still hit you.
Jab combos that need SDI
Jab to Nair
Jab to Cyclone
Jab to up b
These jabs sometimes work and sometimes don't.
Kirby's and Jigglypuff's landing animations have them squish down and will duck under some things. All 4 frames of their landing they are low like this, so if an attack would normally hit during this time and doesn't reach low enough it will miss.
Jab combos that always work
Jab to Dsmash, Ftilt, and Dtilt
Stages
BF
SV
Ban
Yoshi's island(brawl)[/COLLAPSE]
____________________________________________
[COLLAPSE=Sonic]
#23: Sonic
Ratio:
50-50 even
you really gotta abuse the high priority/long ranged moves here. When you catch luigi hanging on the ledge almost everything he does is punishable since his get up attack is seriously bad you can just sit outside his range, as soon as invincibility wears off begin the b-air spam and drop a spring on his head or usmash him if he wont get up. Fireball spam is annoying but extremely punishable. Dthrow like crazy, it sends luigi across entire stages and if you grab him at the edge, pummel-release for an easy b-air stage spike.
Play a grounded game and abuse your Uair. That is the only move that can reasonably beat out Luigi's in terms of priority. Bair might work in a few instances but overall, just stay to the ground. once he starts chucking fireballs, you've limited him and you can approach safely. Just beware the Utilt traps and his Dsmashes.
Sonic's ground game, the aerial just won't cut. Luigi will stay in air, but he can't stay there forever. Block aerials, shieldgrab if possible. F-smash should be saved for kills.
not a lot of info on this mu. I have never played a pro sonic(should have played one of the sonics at Ktar6) But all I can say for now is this.
Spring gimps can work on Luigi
If it is a really good sonic prepare for a long match so be patient.
Jab combos that need SDI
Jab to Cyclone works only on the first hitbox of the jab
Jab to up b, turn around up tilt, grab
Jab to dsmash, ftilt, dtilt
Stages
BF
Ban
Yoshi's Island
FD[/COLLAPSE]
____________________________________________
[COLLAPSE=Sheik]#24:Sheik
Ratio#
60-40 Luigi's favor
Luigi can NOT kill you with his jab > up B if you react in time. Sheik is able to shield or jab in time before Luigi can hit with the up B.
Forward smash is devastating. Especially if he tilts it up, which can kill you at around 70% I believe. Maybe even earlier.
luigi has some pretty gigantic priority and some projectiles and some completely absurd kill moves while your kill moves wont be able to kill him until way later I would say luigi has a pretty solid advantage on sheik. To win this match exploit luigis recovery by using shieks excellent gimping tools, another thing to watch out for is luigis Fsmash cant really be punished and he can even cover it with Dsmash if u try to roll behind him.
The only thing's that let luigi break the jab/tilt combos early are nair/upB. The thing about nair though, is that as sheik you can avoid it in the middle of a f-tilt combo by making sure to never try to follow after luigi is knocked too far. Only go for the tilt combo's like 0-60 or so. Also the luigi nair is very easy to bait by either throwing out a tilt and then buffering a shield or to start rapid jabs and also buffer a power shield. It works pretty much every time for me.
DownB can be shielded easily and punished afterwards if they finish near you. Also his fireball's hit boxes are kind of disjointed and can be difficult to powershield if you don't know the timing exactly.
Otherwise luigi is decently easy to gimp using sheik's aerials, also very safe to approach against with nair. If luigi starts doing retreating bair's to nair's approach from below and nair, if he plays the ground, avoid any fireballs and nair from above. I believe sheik's nair out prioritizes luigi's ground options other than F-smash/Charged u-smash. Also if luigi doesn't approach, needles stop everything except fireballs, that includes lugi's downB.
Bottom line, luigi has some very fast early killing high priority moves, but has little range, and almost no run speed. So it comes down to how good the sheik is at baiting and how good the luigi player is at getting close.
Any sheik experienced in jab/tilt combo's if you just experiment a little bit, you will discover which ones you can buffer properly to land on luigi. The important thing is to never chase directly into him after a tilt after like 60% because it will be an easy nair, though again this is easy to bait.
Spaced bair beats everything luigi has in the air.
bair space her, she doesnt have anything to stop it really. nair breaks her tilt combos, easy air combos, and super light so smashes kill early
This is a pretty even match up, but not a lot of info on it.
No jab combos work on Sheik.
Stage
BF
SV
Ban
FD[/COLLAPSE]
____________________________________________
[COLLAPSE=Pit]#25
it
Ratio#
60-40 Pit's favor
My opinions about Luigi vs Pit.
Strike FD cuz you know guys already that Luigi sucks on FD against ppl w/ projectiles. Pit is floaty and light weight and we can juggle him. We got better combos, strength, DI, and killing power than Pit. Just PS his arrows as you attempt to approach him. Watch out for his Bair and his smashes.
His smashes are weak, we can handle his smash attacks rly well cuz we got beasty DI, his best smash is side smash. Pit will have trouble killing off Luigi, we got all the tools to take off a stock off of him which is our smashes and back throw. His knockback is not that gud @ all.
What neutral stages we should bring Pit:
BF, YI, and SV (if you're comfortable playing him on that stage)
What CPs we should bring Pit:
Frigate & Brinstar.
What stages to ban:
FD and RC
My opinion for this MU: 50/50 or Luigi's favor 55/45
You can shoot a fireball to hit him out of his recovery on any stage in the same similar fashion, and its risky to try to gimp pit in most instances.
From what I am understanding of your suggestion to using this stage vs pit is:
1) Sometimes the stage can mess him up. Well, this is true for any instance vs any character and it can happen to pit. But it can also happen to any character as well, so this shouldn't be a thought that goes through your mind when counter picking pit.
2) Frigate is one of the hardest stages for Luigi to land a gimp on. The risk/reward is extremely tilted into the risk section. When exactly would you try and gimp pit on this level, that is not different from other stationary levels? What is the difference between gimping pit on a neutral, compared to any other neutral in the game. The only difference here is that Luigi is put into a horrible position should the stage cause Luigi to go off the level.
It can be very hard to avoid a gimp from pit, and because of the level switching and putting Luigi in a vulnerable spot in the air, it's just risking too much vs Pit.
This is actually not a bad counter pick for Luigi in a good bit of match-ups, but not vs characters that can fly, have 5 jumps and an up b recovery with quite a bit of mobility.
I would recommend a neutral vs pit in general, or a counter pick a small boundary and level terrain such as brinstar.
I personally like Halberd, Yoshi's, or BF vs Pit. Basically any small stage, platform stage, or low ceiling.
Pick a stage that prevents Pit from camping. DI out of his f-smash and Pit has trouble killing. use a lot of back air, down b, and fireballs.
well in md/va we only hav two or three pits and everytime i play them they want to goto fd,bf,rc,and ps1.
pits love to arrow loop to any smash attack at you so watch for that
To pressure a pit main just mind game him dont be predictable then he can not approach nor hurt you. Spacing bairs and fairs are a good way to pressure pit
Jab combos that need SDI to work
jab to nair
Jab to cyclone
Jab combos that always work
Jab to up b or grab
Jab to dsmash, ftilt, dtilt
Stages
BF
Ban
FD
PS1[/COLLAPSE]
____________________________________________
[COLLAPSE=Lucas]#26:Lucas
Summary
Ratio#
55-45 Lucas' favor
His Nair cancels our PKT however PKT gets him out of his Missle and Tornado and since the Tornado can only be used once before he gets back onto the stage. this puts him a bad position if he is far away/below the stage.
Luigi has horrible approach so camping him is ideal (though he could PS it all and get in) and if he gets in our defense.
Watch out for his tornado approaches that are quite annoying since they stop PKF.
However Luigi can rack damage up nicely and with his early KO moves can kill us pretty easily. And his Shoryuken is dangerous
This matchup is pretty even. Lucas can try to out-camp Luigi, but Luigi can just powershield PK fire, but I know Lucas can out-space Luigi because of Lucas's range is better than Luigi's.
OK, IMO lucas has a small advantage in this match. The first reason is that he has good, low lag aerials with more range than luigi's.
The biggest thing to take advantage of though, is their HUGE vulnerability on a couple of moves. The first is usmash. Lucas leaves himself completely open when he misses it, however it's easy to get yourself caught up in the back end of it in trying to punish. So be careful. The second is pk thunder. Lucas is immobile and vulnerable for at least a second, to a second and a half, when he uses pk thunder. This is especially because he has absolutely no expectation that you'll approach him from the front when he uses it, since it can be such a devastating attack. Get your shoryuken timing right and this should get you at least one easy KO in any match.
You simply can not be spammy with fireballs in this match. Psi magnet will take too much advantage of this.
The general strategy is stay airborne, if there are platforms, stay above him, and feign vulnerability. Being airborne will allow you to use your air supremacy and be aggressive. Staying above will bait him into using his laggy moves. If you can get right into his face, you want to, just like everyone (except snake). Just stay away from the 1-2 meters away, right in front of him (PK fire) range and you should do fine.
Luigi can ftlit pk fire and he won't get hurt.
Also be careful of dsmash while you recover to the edge. Luigi can Lucas at low percentages and stop his recovery with a fireball or with down b. Lucas can pk thunder Luigi's recover proving a stage spike or ruining his chance at recovery.
Jab combos that need SDI to work
Jab to nair
Jab to cyclone
Jab to up b or grab
Jab combos that always work
Jab to dsmash, ftilt, dtilt(works only on the first hitbox of the jab)
Stages for Luigi
BF
YI
SV
Ban
FD
Brinstar[/COLLAPSE]
____________________________________________
[COLLAPSE=Ganondorf]
#27:Ganondorf
Summary
Ratio#
60-40 Luigi's favor
Both of us are solid killers, Luigi can N-air ganon out of virtually everything. Main thing to say is that Luigi's priority overwhelms. Just be really careful of the pesky down air and up air. Don't down b too often as your asking for a down air.
Luigi's camping also doesn't really threaten Ganon a whole ton because he'll be able to powershield it most of the time, and Jab -> Up-B is blockable.
Ganondorf's best neutral: Final Destination. Luigi can probably do some nasty stuff on platforms, so it's best to have Ganon in a long stage so that he can avoid Luigi's comboes easier. If you ban FD, Ganon would probably like Smashville as an alternative option.
Luigi's best neutral: Yoshi's Island. I hate this stage with a passion as Ganondorf, especially if it's against a character with as good of a CQC game as Luigi. Luigi can just pressure him and **** him all day long, Ganondorf doesn't have the room to do anything. I, in particular, almost always ban Yoshi's Island, so your next best neutral is Lylat (if it's a neutral).
Counterpicks: Nothing particular comes to mind, just keep note that Ganondorf wants long stages so he doesn't get zoned as easy, and Luigi wants stages with small areas so that he can trap Ganondorf into huge amounts of damage/death.
Possible side b follow ups:
1.) side b > Down Tilt
2.) side b > Forward Tilt
3.) side b> Jab (If he try's to do anything but roll behind you)
4.) side b > Dash Attack
Luigi's range is almost close to Mario's, a bit more. His KO power's higher then Mario's though. Be out of his range, we out range most of his attacks. Stay around Mid-range, use D-tilts for quick pokes.
If Luigi tries to approach from the air, I expect Ftilt and Uair can take him out, but odds are they won't approach that way.
the tornado can be countered with Dtilts
Jab combos that need SDI to work
Jab to up b on the first hit box
jab to dsmash, ftilt, dtilt
Stages
BF
YI
Ban
FD[/COLLAPSE]
____________________________________________
[COLLAPSE=Mario]#28:Mario
summary
Ratio#
50-50 even
~Approach~
Mario is one tough cookie to approach. Anything you can do, he can do better, he can do anything better than you~!
- Fireball Approaches are a big no-no. His Fireball > Yours and Cape just doesn't help.
- Fireballs cancel out your tornado. By the time you're done colliding with every fireball he throws at you you're in the perfect position for a combo start.
- Aerial Approaches probably have a better stand against Mario. The classic DAir => NAir helps.
~Patterns And Moves~
Mario has a very wide arsenal of moves to retaliate.
- All Smashes: They all outrange you slightly to outright looong. A Stutter Stepped FSmash has quite the range. DSmash and USmash outrange your own by a smidegen.
- UAirs from Marios usually will lead to an FSmash onstage or an FAir Offstage. Be wary of those chains; break em with NAir!
- Marios have Jab => Move combos like us, so be wary! Jab => Grab and Jab => DSmash can be hard to predict, but don't forget you can do it too!
- BAirs are just as deadly combo wise. Except to see a good Mario use this as much as you should use YOURS <_<
- Super Jump Punch (Mario's) is much like Dolphin Slash (Marth) as it has invincibility frames, can be done OOS quite effectively and it's unexpectiedness in a battle.
~Style Adjustment~
Battling against the man in red requires some momentum. It's more evident in this matchup than other ones.
- Offensive: Don't be afraid to take the offensive when you have the upper hand. Get in his face, and be smart about it. Your Fireball may not be as good as his, but it's not USELESS. Use it, just not a obviously as you would though.
- Defensive: If you start to feel the pressure, start mixing in some FTilts to get some breathing room and think about your next move.
The key is being dynamic in style, adjust according to the Mario's agressiveness and tactics.
~Ground Game~
- As said before, Mario's Smashes > Yours. Both of you can be deadly when you're up close, but you have the upper hand in that case. Jab to Grab => DThrow into FAirs/BAirs will work wonders! Whatever the Mario does to you, you can do back to him, but stronger!
- UTilt juggling will rack up damage a tad faster. If you're stuck in Mario's UTilt though, SDI outta it pronto!
- Play normally, but a bit more defensive the clsoer you are to the edge. The farther away you're from the edge, the better.
~Air Game~
- Battle of the combo kings! Apply your own UAir/DAir/FAir/BAir combos. Remember though; Mario's Tornado has quite the priority, But Luigi's NAir will rival that. Use the Tornado Infinite Jump (It DOES have a purpose, you know!) to stay in the air and keep Mario on his toes...in the air...yeah, perfect sense.
- Fight a Mario in the Air much like a Luigi. Better mindgames and better spacing will win you the fight.
- Be wary of the FAir Paounch. Other than the spike, it can send you horizontially pretty far... And you thought Dr. Mario was dead.
~Edgeguarding~
- Face it, Mario can edggaurd you better, and he has ANTI Edguarding strats too. Be smart about Fireball Spam and the like. He can throw his own fireballs back at you, and suddenly turn the tables!
- Tornado, Tornado, Tornado.
- Super Jump Punch can be thrown at you almost any time to stop your attempts!
- When YOU'RE being edgeguard, be wary of Green Missiling, as the FLUDD will stop you form moving forward and the Cape will send you off to your doom. Tornado at the right time.
~Killing Options~
- Luigi is much better at killing than Mario. That, and a lot of his great kills are vertical, so you don't need to worry about edgeguarding!
- Fire Punch is punishable with Cape if a Mario is smart to see it coming. Take caution.
- Up Tilted FSmash is wonderful here, however. Very awesome.
- NAir, BAir chains and the like also work wonders.
I've said it a million times. vs Luigi is even.
Mario has an edge camping, and to a lesser extent edgeguarding, while Luigi has an edge KOing ridiculously early if he can land one of his short ranged KO moves, and then some of his combos do slightly more damage.
Luigi's N-air is very manageable if you know what to expect. Just U-tilt whenever he's above you. It will always beat his N-air or D-air. And I do in fact mean it when I say "always".
The hardest thing to deal with in this matchup is just Tornado, since he will generally use it to punish your ending lag on stuff. Fireballs can stop it in its tracks, and if you predict it, F-smash can beat it.
Mentioning F-smash, Mario's F-smash is so ridiculously good in this matchup, it very much makes up for Luigi's crazy KO power by being a solid counter to a lot of his moveset and physics. F-smash is safe on block in this matchup, and it outranges Luigi's entire movepool. This allows you to consistently mindgame the **** out of him for some clutch KOs in this matchup. If Mario's F-smash KOed just a little earlier, this matchup would swing to Mario's favor. It's that good in this matchup.
In short, both combo the heck out of each other, and while Luigi may have some dirty tricks up his sleeve, Mario can F-smash him in the nuts to put him back in his place.
Fireballs destroy Luigi's ForawrdB recovery...It's the same thing as hitting a brick wall.
Jab combos that need SDI
Jab to Nair
jab to Cyclone
Jab to Shoruyken
Jab combos that always work
Jab to Dsmash, Ftilt, and Dtilt
Stages
BF
Ban
FD
Brinstar[/COLLAPSE]
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[COLLAPSE=Link]#29:Link
summary
Ratio#
55-45 Luigi's favor
55:45 luigi on platforms
5/5 flat stages give or take
luigi ps everything, link should go aggro camping with alot of zair spacing
once luigi stays inside, he'll stay for a while, link's spaced jab and his frame 5 dsmash is the general distance he wants
link's options when knocked off stage is reduced greatly
- Ducking Link's z-air gives you a little more time to react to it.
-This rarely happens, but Link's boomerang + Weegee's traction= a faster approach if done correctly.
-spaced back-airs tend to beat out most of his aerials.
Luigi's best tools for gimping is back air. Link's f-smash and z-air are a pain to get bye. This is one of the few matchups I struggle to kill, mostly due to Link's wtf good momentum cancels. Luigi want's a down throw or an up tilt to start something. Link has to space and camp. I also personally like Luigi's down smash in this matchup, it seems quite useful vs heavy character.
Luigi's fireballs stay even with boomerang I think + a bunch of other moves while virtually all of our aerials goes even with the arrows. Use the slight lag at the end of z-airs and approach. Its the main way I have approached Link and it seems to work fine. Also, this is one of the few matchups where Luigi does better on a non-vertical kill stage, mostly because Link can also kill way too quickly. Go to BF, YI, or PS1/LC. Ban FD, strike Smashville. I personally am a big fan of Frigate in this matchup. The switching of the stage forces Link to approach. Link can also down air Luigi out of down b, so be careful recovering.
Pick small stages or platforms.
I'd say this is 55 : 45 for Luigi, unless you're on a flat stage, then it's even. Link has the tools to keep Luigi at bay. He has arrows, boomerang, bombs, and that stupid z air. The first three aren't that bad, but that z air is really annoying, coupled with the fact that link has no lag from landing with it. Link's sword is also a problem since it'll beat some of Luigi's aerials if spaced properly (maybe not bair). Luigi has to fight to get close and try to start racking damage on link, while Link has to keep luigi away. With good DI, link won't be getting gimped easily, and he won't die early either.
Jab combos that need SDI to work
Jab to Cyclone
Jab to Shoruyken
Jab to Dsmash, ftilt, and Dtilt
Stages
BF
Ban
FD[/COLLAPSE]
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[COLLAPSE=Captain falcon]#30:Captain falcon
Summary
Ratio#
55-45 Luigi's favor
has a lot of run speed, so he can play a bait and punish game, and his U-air is a GREAT juggle tool.
At best Falcon will be an annoyance if he uses his air mobility to play "gay".
Getting Luigi above Falcon is the best option. Luigi's air game is definantly one of the best in the game and it can be extremely stressful for a Falcon to get around it if Luigi forces us above him. Uair is our best friend when going against Luigi in the air. Quick, range, best option for spacing and easily spammable.
For our ground game, don't do anything that's easily punishable. As much as I love using Raptor Boost, avoid using it in this match-up. Utilt, Jab, Grab and Shield.
I like FD. Just because I end up going there in most matches anyways. Sure Luigi has odd knockback properties, but I think FD is the easiest place to handle him.
However, Brinstar and stages like it do limit his approaches. He won't be able to ground-nado his way, and adding two more levels on which you can stand causes fireballs to be easier to evade. What this stage does add is a chance to approach vertically, but because I find falcon moving from place to place relatively fast in competitive play, green machine would have a hard time doing that so its no issue.
If we can get under luigi, then that's good. Brinstar and BF are stages to try.
in this matchup your best move is utilt, followed closely by dsmash and uair. the jab is also significantly less useful against luigi than other chars.
. What Falcon takes advantage in this MU is his bad mobility, and that he doesn't have a jab shoryuken set up on Falcon.
The big thing of this matchup is that Luigi can combo us, they can break our combos with nair, he might space with bair. We can block his tornado with jab, so he shouldn't approach with it. Our best way to deal with this matchup is to make him approach, because of his mobility and most of our moves are safe on shield, because his traction.
Up-tilt, F-tilt (angle), bair, up+ b, down-tilt will cause hindrance to Luigi, just keep him away, if he get to close, they will get a chance to **** us. His projectile is not that useful against Falcon. Just don't stay in one place for a long period of time. If we both take the air, he will usually win the fight.
Most of our moves are safe on shield so we can pressure better. This matchup is still a disadvantage for Falcon. If everyone wants, I can bring some of the Luigi players to discuss the matchup in their perspective.
Try not to use Falcon Kick. They can punish it with a shoryuken. Only use it if you are sure they can't punish it, or offstage.
Jab to dsmash, ftilt, and dtilt is the only jab combo that works and it needs SDI to work on the first hitbox of the jab.
Stages
BF
Ban
FD[/COLLAPSE]
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[COLLAPSE=Pokemon trainer]#31 Pokemon trainer
Summary
Ratio#
60-40 Pokemon trainer's favor
The basic strategy vs Luigi: Hit and run. You can't outright challenge him, but since squirtle is fast enough, you can use his speed to keep some momentum. Bair spacing is fairly good from what I know.
For Squirtle, it mostly depends on how campy you're willing to be. This is definitely a matchup where your safest moves make a world of difference. F-Tilt should be your best friend, even more so than usual.
Feel free to run away with shellshifting and hydroplaned stuff. Simply moving a bit helps a whole lot, like walking or using shorthop N-Air in place, as his jab (the most threatening thing in his arsenal) outranges most of your stuff, but moving in and out of Luigi's range will help you a lot. He'll be rolling toward you, spotdodging in your face, throwing out jabs, and using Down-B to get in. Because none of these options are very good, using moves with very low cooldown, such as F-Tilt and quick aerials, will allow you to anticipate and punish his approach attempt without much trouble.
Do yourself a favor and don't be above him when he's on the ground. If you find yourself in such a situation, you need to move away unless it's too late. Try not to challenge him in the air unless you're in a great position to do so, like from under a platform. Trades are bad in this matchup, and the Luigi has to mess up for aerial fights not to trade. Edgeguarding isn't difficult; I usually find myself knocking Luigi after his Forward-B by using D-Air if he's low. If not, get the F-Air and repeat the process, since F-Air will put him back where he started, and you can repeat it. Water Gun completely stops his Forward-B, so it's good to keep it charged for that.
If I can stress anything in this matchup, it's that you need to be really patient. Don't fish for grabs or worry about fatigue; you don't need to be very aggressive until he's off the stage.
Charizard: Charizard can out range Luigi by a lot with his Fair, Bair, and his move with a lot of priority Rock smash. Luigi beats Charizard with his speed, but most of the time Luigi is going to have to approach. Charizard's size helps in some combos. Luigi can prevent Charizard from returning onto the stage by comboing Charizard off the stage with fair, fair, fair and finish it off with Luigi cyclone. The luigi cyclone will send charizard more further from the stage, but charizard can save himself if he uses the cyclone and DIs toward the stage. Watch for flamethrower at the edge because that can mess up Luigi's recovery.
Ivysaur: Ivysaur like Charizard can be comboed easily and can out range Luigi. Razor leaf has a decent amount of damage as a camping tool, bullet seed can stop a grounded cyclone because of the hit box at the beginning of bullet seed will pull Luigi in, and Ivy's grab range just like Charizard is long which can help in pokemon changes. Most of the time a PKT won't fight you with Ivysaur because Luigi can beat Ivysaur in speed and in the air, but be aware of ivy's Fsmash and upair since they are main kill moves for Ivysaur.
Squirtle: Squirtle wins no contest against Luigi in speed both in the air and the ground which is why this is the part of the mu that give Luigi a disadvantage. Squirtle's dashing can be used in a massive amount of ways against Luigi.
1. set up combos with grab
2. it moves squirtle to a certain part of the stage in no time.
3. Aerials are spaced better
4. Upsmash kills are hard to predict
5. moves in general are hard to predict
6. Luigi has to time his moves to make sure they hit and don't get PS to grab.
With all of this speed that Squirtle has he can pummel Luigi with attacks like crazy. Luigi should either read where Squirtle is going to be to hit him or stop his dashing with Cyclone. There is no right way to really combat squirtle, but if you can figure the way the pkt is using Squirtle's dash you can counter some of Squirtle's moves with Fsmash. Squirtle's will mostly be hitting you with fairs and nairs. When Luigi is at a high percent prepare for incoming upsmashes and offstage watch for dair's since they can kill Luigi. Lastly if Squirtle can't get the upsmash kills or dair kills on Luigi, he will use his dashing to grab Luigi and Kill him with Dthrow with it's massive knockback.
Pkt's will always start against you as squirtle to rack up any damage or take any stocks. When you kill squirtle you'll won't see much of Ivysaur, but when you kill ivy. Charizard is going to give you a hard time and possibly take a take a stock. Not mention Charizard is going to stock tank since out of the 3 he has the best DI.
Jab combos that need SDI to work on charizard
jab to nair
jab to cyclone
jab to shoruyken or grab
Jab to dsmash, ftilt, dtilt
Jab combos that need SDI to work on Ivysaur
Jab to nair
jab to cyclone
jab to shoruyken or grab
Jab combos that always work on Ivysaur
Jab to dsmash, ftilt, dtilt
Jab combos that need SDI to work on Squirtle
jab to shoruyken or grab
jab to dsmash, ftilt, dtilt
Stages
BF
Halberd
Bans
FD[/COLLAPSE]
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[COLLAPSE=Ness]#32 Ness
summary
Ratio#
50-50 even
Don't underestimate his ground game. His up-angled fsmash has half the lag of his regular one and will kill in the early eighties with DI, he's got good jab-canceling options, landing a utilt or a dthrow at low percents will almost always guarantee a followup, and of course you can't forget the grounded up-B.
The cyclone should be stopped by anything disjointed, like your dash attack or fair.
Luigi also has an airgame similar to Ness's to a certain level. However, Ness has more range and is in fact faster than Luigi in this aspect also. Luigi beats Ness frame-wise, but since he lacks the speed and range.
~Luigi and Ness are both aerial fighters that depend on their air game to be efficient. Their aerials both have good priority and this matchup will be in the air most of the time where they both excel.
~A Ness can **** Luigi's recovery; D-air, F-air, B-air... same here with ness >_> Luigi is easy to gimp when in his rocket recovery, and makes the Cazcombo (Airborne PK Fire to D-air) a very viable option to get a very early kill when edgeguarding Luigi or just edgeguarding in general.
~They can both kill each other at extremely early percents;
Luigi: Up B, misfire(unlikely), Dair hip spike(HARD TO LAND).
Ness: PKT2(somewhat hard to land), Dair.
Ness has only two reliable kill moves. His bair and bthrow (and his uair and spike on the occasions you can actually hit with them). His bat would be there if it had enough speed and range to actually be useful half the time.
Wigi has his reliable forward smash, upsmash, downsmash, Shoryuken, his nair, his bthrow kills as well (not quite as well as Ness's though). All of his kill moves are faster and stronger then Ness's.
Jab combos that need SDI to work
Jab to nair
jab to cyclone
jab to shoruyken or grab
Jab combos that always work
Jab to dsmash, dtilt, ftilt
Stages
BF
YI
Ban
FD[/COLLAPSE]
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[COLLAPSE=Samus]#33 Samus
Summary
Ratio#
50-50 even
The matchup is more or less even imo. The trick really as people probably already know is to keep luigi out. Unfortunatly for samus, she is so floaty that Luigi has an easier time getting near her then against other characters with a good projectile game.
I faced a good Samus by me a few tournaments ago (Rhyme).
Luigi has issues spacing vs Samus's z-air. The issue is KO'ing for Samus but Samus can gimp quite easily due to Samus's d-air being dumb vs Luigi's green missile/up b/down b. Though as said, once we can get in, we deal massive damage. The main issue is that Luigi's floatiness gets in the way of us approaching as well.
Pick stages that Luigi has issues approaching (the more room and the less platforms the better), I auto-ban FD vs. Samus mains. I believe Rhyme won on PS1 and maybe SV (?). I like Yoshi's or BF as platforms help.
I believe I counter picked frigate Orpheon to force approaches and won there. Overall I thought the matchup is probably 60-40 Samus (slight advantage) due to Luigi having a difficult time approaching and Samus having a moderately easy time gimping (to make up for having difficulty killing).
I find that Samus's bombs can also be useful in the matchup, they prevent our down b approaches.
Okay this matchup is going to be one where if you are a generally spammy/campy Samus, you will BRING IN THE BENEFITS. Luigi has an issue with his traction, do the slightest move on him or his shield, and he goes SPEEDING away, now you can obviously think of what im suggesting. CAMP. Yes camp. Spam your missles and zair against him, especially when he's shielding because he will have much greater pushback then other characters. Luigi has to get in to rack up damage, he cannot camp and his best approach options in this match up are to powershield or use his down B to quickly outprioritise our missles and get in, but even then, we can OoS UpB ALL of his aerials, just not his smashes, so we are pretty safe here.
Luigi's airgame is far better then ours, I'll come out with it now. Equipped with fair, he can chop through our spam and give us a real damage racking by forcing us offstage or just getting into our area. When Luigi is in, get him out ASAP, otherwise, he will have a variety of chains on you, and since Samus is tall and floaty, his uair and utilt strings are BEASTLY. Luigi's nair, dair and bair attacks can all clank with charge shot so it just goes past him rather then damaging him, so please just try and hit him while he's grounded. If Luigi doesnt powershield this, he is being sent back about the third of FD's length, so yeah, keep that pressure on. Luigi's dair has a very small spike hitbox on it that is pretty weak but can catch you off guard, and even if the spike doesn't kill, it can set Luigi up to gimp you.
Luigi's jab can be cancelled into a variety of moves, including his Up B which is a MONSTER of a killing move and will end us around 60, so please be careful, also note that if we are slightly airborne when he jabs, we cannot avoid it, and are simply going to eat an Up B. Luigi will attackn us at low percentages with jabs or even tilts/smashes. On this point, Luigi's ground game just destroys us outside of our ftilt, it outranges all of his moves.
A word of warning, DO NOT FOLLOW UP A DTHROW WITH A CLOSE RANGE AERIAL. Luigi's neutral aerial is a very strong kill move, especially when it's used as a rising move OoS, it's extremely destructive and is quite difficult to DI.
Another cool thing about this match up is Samus' jab. Her jab naturally has a large amount of pushback, so when it's used on Luigi he goes SOARING away, so jab cancels are not very useful here, the gtfo option is totally worth the exchange. Luigi should be taking a minimum of about 20 damage before he gets in. Luigi can also attempt to approach from the air however, he will be discouraged to do this because he has a very poor air speed, poor mobility and an average airdodge, so simply zairing will knock him out of the sky and he will be forced to try another method to approach.
Missile to grab combos work wonders on Luigi because of the pushback the missle has, it puts him in a perfect position to get grabbed, where we can use a fthrow or bthrow to rack up some damage.
Samus will need to counterpick FD against Luigi, he suffers very very hard on this stage due to the lack of obstructions and it's far easier to gimp him here.Pokemon stadium is also an option.
Jab combos that need SDI to work
jab to nair
Jab combos that always work
Jab to cyclone
jab to shoruyken or grab
jab to dsmash, ftilt, and dtilt
Stages
BF
YI
Ban
FD[/COLLAPSE]
____________________________________________
[COLLAPSE=Zelda]#34 Zelda
Summary
Ratio#
60-40 Luigi's favor
it is a pure spacing match-up. Zelda has utilize her range and stay on the ground or under Luigi if in the air.
If she can stay grounded, she should win this match-up more than.
Anyways, you can potentially outcamp Zelda if your smart and patient. Learn how to PS, it's not hard to PS her stuff anyways.
Never approach dead on with SHs against Zelda. it doesnt work on zelda because of her OOS upsmash. Instead learn how to mix it up with SH aerials to airdodges buffers when you conditioned them with SH double aerials. Trust me it works, its matter of out thinking your oppenent.
Position yourself a little outside the range of her attacks, but too close to safely use Din's. Camp her at this range with empty shorthops mixed with occasional b-airs, down-bs, fireballs, airdodge to turnaround jabs, walk to shield/jab/crawldash back mixup, etc. Whenever she does just about any move you'll be able to punish it unless you needed to shield it. Down-b is especially easy to punish with, but also walk to jab (to d-smash, or up-b at KO percents) and b-air are good. For the jab you can use the boost from a turnaround walk after landing to get in quicker.
You can mix up random immediate offensive down-bs (follow if it connects and retreat it immediately if you see it blocked) with down-b in place just out of range to bait and see what they do. If they react by trying to hit you out of it then move in with the down-b during the lag, or retreat it if they don't.
Your ability to zone her like this and abuse the unsafe nature of her ranged attacks then KO with a jab up-b or f-smash at very low percents is what I feel makes the matchup a bit in his favor.
Jab combos that need SDI to work
Jab to nair
Jab to cyclone
Jab combos that always work
jab to shoruyken, grab, or turn around up tilt
Jab to dsmash, dtilt, and ftilt
stages
Halberd
BF
Ban
FD[/COLLAPSE]
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[COLLAPSE=Jigglypuff]#35 Jigglypuff
Summary
Ratio#
55-45 Luigi's favor
There is nothing on this mu. Yay input from me.
-Jiggz and Luigi are even in the air
-Luigi should approach Jiggz with well spaced bairs and Luigi cyclone
-It is best to play defensive against Jiggz because pound goes through most of Luigi's moves. Fireballs help in racking up damage and creating space between jiggz. Be careful of pound because it can go through the fireball hitting luigi and it can go through the cyclone.
-Luigi's cyclone can stop Jiggz's rollout, but it will either clank or hit jiggz.
- Don't ever try to chase Jiggz off stage because she'll punish Luigi like mk.
- when off stage grab the edge as quickly as possible or jiggz will damage Luigi a lot before he comes back onto the stage. Recovering above Jiggz is the best alternative to avoid damage.
-Luigi's missle can be stopped by Jiggz's fair and IIRC it can stop the misfire to.
-watch out for rest. I'm not really sure about the set ups, but be cautious
-Shoruyken kills around 43%
-Fsmash kills around 80%
-up tilt kills around 110%
Kirby's and Jigglypuff's landing animations have them squish down and will duck under some things. All 4 frames of their landing they are low like this, so if an attack would normally hit during this time and doesn't reach low enough it will miss.
For example, you can't really Jab->Up-B Kirby on flat ground despite having enough time to get it out before he's able to block since he 'ducks' underneath the sweetspot and you'll always get the coin hit on him instead. However, if you can connect with it before they even land it will work, which you can still do on Jigglypuff for the most part. You can Jab->Up-B these two when the advantage listed is 10 or higher. Jiggs has this normally on Hits 1 & 2 (11 and 10 respectively), but for Kirby they need to be holding up when they get jabbed and ASDI it upwards.
Jab combos that need SDI to work
jab to nair
Jab combos that always work
Jab to cyclone
Jab to shoryuken, grab, turn around up tilt
Jab to dsmash, ftilt, dtilt
Stages
BF
Halberd
Ban
FD[/COLLAPSE]
____________________________________________
[COLLAPSE=Bowser]
#36 Bowser
Summary
Ratio#
60-40 Luigi's favor
Coming from the side of the stage is even worse, because Luigi's torpedo is usually so slow it can be hit with an fair by Bowser.
On the flip side, edgeguarding Bowser is very easy with fireballs and quick bairs. Gimping Bowser is similar to gimping DK because their moves don't have too much climb to their animations, making it smart to hit them to the lower part of the off-stage.
stay out of the air. Luigi will utterly **** Bowser with Bairs, Uairs, and Nairs otherwise. Watch out for falling Nairs as well, since these can lead into Utilt juggling at lower percents, or aerial juggling at higher percents.
-Bowser's main kills moves on luigi are fsmash, fair, and upair.
- be careful of the upsmash because after Bowser rises up there is a hit box at his stomach at the end of the up smash when he touches the ground.
- Luigi's nairs are good to use against Bowser if you want to get up into the air.
- As slow as bowser is don't go to offensive or bowser will grab you. Bowser can do some good follow ups after his grab
-If you are grabbed near the edge and you're at high percentages don't press jump. Bowser can fair you after the grab release
-Approach with caution or Bowser can sheild your attacks and counter with OOS moves or grabs
-Luigi cyclone is a good edge guard on Bowser
-Luigi fire balls are good to to rack up damage or to play defensive
-Luigi has a Fthrow cg on bowser until 20%
Jab combos that need SDI to work
Jab to cyclone
jab to shoruyken, grab, or turn around up tilt
Jab to dsmash, ftilt, or dtilt
Jab combos that work
Stages
BF
Ban
[/COLLAPSE]
