Stage Discussion - Level 1-2: Pokemon Stadium 1

DTP · Sep 28, 2009

Here we'll be discussing the various stages that brawl has to offer. We'll look at what works in Luigi's favor, what works against him, and what to ban/counter-pick when it comes to certain characters.

Don't be afraid to ask any stage related questions you may have. You may not be the only one with the same question. And of course feel free to share any tips and tricks that you may have developed along the way.

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-How to rate-

This will be how I rate the stages in regards to how well they work for us. Yeah I could just use numbers, but that's boring lol

- Stages will be rated best out of 10!
- Please give a legitimate reason as to why you gave the score you did. Simply stating that a stage deserves a score of 10 isn't enough.
- Be realistic

- 10 Weegee's for a perfect score!
These are stages that we should always try and go to in a match.

- 1 Weegee for the worst stages possible.
These should be banned in most, if not all matches.

- 1/2 a Weegee for those stages that you have trouble coming up with a score for.

-Stage List-(Excluding Banned Stages)

Starter
- Battlefield
- Final Destination
- Smashville
- Yoshi's Island

Starter/Counter
- Castle Siege
- Halberd
- Lylat Cruise
- Pokémon Stadium 1

Counter
- Brinstar
- Delfino
- Frigate Orpheon
- Jungle Japes
- Pictochat
- Pirate Ship
- Pokémon Stadium 2
- Rainbow Cruise

Counter/Banned
- Distant Planet
- Green Greens
- Luigi's Mansion
- Norfair
- Port Town Aero Dive
- Yoshi's Island (Pipes)

Stages will not be discussed in that order. It's just the current brawl stage list copied from the SBR.
We will not be discussing banned stages. Waste of time lol
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Level 1-1: Final Destination

Rating:

Summary:

All in all, FD isn't that bad for Luigi, but it's not exactly good for us either. Campy/Spammy characters can thrive here, making the battle for us much more difficult than it has to be. Avoid this stage against characters like that, unless you want a long annoying fight on your hands.

Hit and runs can also, be a problem here. Think Snake's DACUS and Falco's Phantasm.
Basically any characters that can easily escape you have potential to cause a troublesome fight.

Now we don't do terribly bad against characters with no projectiles or projectiles worse than ours. We still have options, even with out platforms.

elheber said:
At first glance, platforms on stages seem like they'll help extend combos, but in the end, I feel they just give the opponent more places to land and shield. Like, if I were to try a standard dThrow setup under a platform, my grounded followups like regrabbing, hyphen smashing, or even uTilting, are all out the window; and I'd only be left with aerials.

They still help you have more options on how to approach, and let you shield poke from below. But I think flat solid ground is more combo friendly than platforms.

Platforms are still generally considered better overall for Luigi though.
Try not to get caught under the lip of FD. This shouldn't be too much of a problem though.

Overall, more characters will end up having an easier time on this stage than Luigi. It allows more advantages to the opponent than it does for Luigi, generally speaking.
Not the best stage for Luigi.

It's still a good idea to play here though. Knowing how to play on a stage leaves you prepared for when it matters. You never know when you'll be forced to go to this stage in a tournament.

LuigiKing said:
FD is really good against characters like DK, and I like it against MK better as well. I actually counterpick it against those two.

elheber said:
I use FD against Marth and MK. I definitely wouldn't chose this stage against anyone who can outspam Luigi (which is most of the cast), at least not if I really want to win. I pick it just to be fair. The lack of moving platforms and dangers means it's a little easier to keep combos going longer. Even though more characters have a slightly better time on this stage than Luigi, I still give it a 6/10 because it's combo-friendly.

CR4SH said:
I think this is one of luigi's 3 worst legal stages, along with japes and mansion. Sure some other characters are bad here too, and you might want to take them here because they stink, it doesn't make this a good luigi stage. There are NO PLATFORMS, this is the only stage in the whole smash series like this, aside from eldin which is a total joke. Characters on platforms is easily the most advantageous situation for luigi.

A2ZOMG said:
Imo, this stage is good against Ike, Kirby, Bowser, DK, Marth, Ganondorf, and Captain Falcon.

Especially Ike, Bowser, DK, and Ganondorf. These ppl suck at getting back to the ground, and you can camp them. Bowser and DK are also VERY easy to edgeguard when there are no platforms.

In general it's a good stage against people with limited options for escaping juggles, and against people you can camp.

chic said:
this is the first stage i strike in tournaments. theres no point in going here especially when you have bf, yoshis for starters. if someone ever cps this stage against me i focus on good use of tornado for approaching, using oos attacks and being really really observant. campers/projectile users love this stage. also, will probably get shield grabbed alot if you don't have a good spacing game

KoRoBeNiKi said:
FD is a nice choice....if characters didn't have projectiles.

That being said....who doesn't have a projectile. I don't prefer this stage as my first stage vs anyone but characters who Luigi seriously needs to space vs. This means, MK, Marth, Ike, and very slightly GaW.

__________________

Level 1-2: Pokemon Stadium 1

DTP · Sep 28, 2009

-Reserved-

CR4SH · Sep 29, 2009

Stinks. I hate this stage.

DTP · Sep 29, 2009

Yeah, Luigi really has nothing going for him on this stage at all. I mean, it's not like he does terrible here, but there are lots of character that do soooo much better on FD than him =/

Blah, still working on the OP

CR4SH · Sep 29, 2009

Not just luigi. This stage stinks in general, and has absolutely no business on a starters list.

LuigiKing · Sep 29, 2009

FD is really good against characters like DK, and I like it against MK better as well. I actually counterpick it against those two.

WIGI · Sep 29, 2009

if your smarter than your opponent by far, take them here. and outsmart them.

elheber · Sep 29, 2009

I use FD against Marth and MK. I definitely wouldn't chose this stage against anyone who can outspam Luigi (which is most of the cast), at least not if I really want to win. I pick it just to be fair. The lack of moving platforms and dangers means it's a little easier to keep combos going longer. Even though more characters have a slightly better time on this stage than Luigi, I still give it a 6/10 because it's combo-friendly.

kirbywizard · Sep 29, 2009

I love this stage >_>

..................................

Pick this stage when fighting characters that have little or no projectiles. Mainly Marth Dk and a few others. It isn't to great, but it doesn't effect to bad unless he is fighting heavy weights like Snake, or campers like ROB. I would just go BF, better damage racker. This stage has it's perks but I thing the ceiling is high enough to make some opponents last longer when hit with an up B. Fun stage, but BF is was better.

I feel that no platforms on this stage make for lesser comobos. But thats just me. It has no obstacles that may stop combos like in SV. . . .

elheber · Sep 29, 2009

At first glance, platforms on stages seem like they'll help extend combos, but in the end, I feel they just give the opponent more places to land and shield. Like, if I were to try a standard dThrow setup under a platform, my grounded followups like regrabbing, hyphen smashing, or even uTilting, are all out the window; and I'd only be left with aerials.

They still help you have more options on how to approach, and let you shield poke from below. But I think flat solid ground is more combo friendly than platforms.

kirbywizard · Sep 29, 2009

elheber said:
At first glance, platforms on stages seem like they'll help extend combos, but in the end, I feel they just give the opponent more places to land and shield. Like, if I were to try a standard dThrow setup under a platform, my grounded followups like regrabbing, hyphen smashing, or even uTilting, are all out the window; and I'd only be left with aerials.

They still help you have more options on how to approach, and let you shield poke from below. But I think flat solid ground is more combo friendly than platforms.

That may be true, but one thing I feel can damage Luigi on this stage is the large width of it. Sure we can easily camp, or approach a good majority of the cast but with projectiles like Falco's Lazer, ROB's ****s, and grenades just add more trouble for Luigi. Also is the ceiling and blast zones farther away, because of they are then that can be another problem. Then again if flat stage equals easier combos then this might just even out. I don't think this deserves higher then a six. I feel this stage can give to many pros towards the opposing side to many times against Luigi.

CR4SH · Sep 29, 2009

I think this is one of luigi's 3 worst legal stages, along with japes and mansion. Sure some other characters are bad here too, and you might want to take them here because they stink, it doesn't make this a good luigi stage. There are NO PLATFORMS, this is the only stage in the whole smash series like this, aside from eldin which is a total joke. Characters on platforms is easily the most advantageous situation for luigi.

@elhber if they're shielding on a platform, HIT THEIR SHIELD. It's a suuuuuper sketchy situation for anyone. Two uairs ona shield and then you dj and poke them. Or by that time you've knocked them off and you have a free ANYTHING. Who's gonna sit there that long with their shield up? Plus most of the time they're forced to tech or getup on the platform, and with you waiting (with a brain) thats a hit. Ten times better than playing paper rock airdodge. Not to mention, the hit you got from the platform, worst case scenario, leads into the same situation you get out of a dthrow.

Plus, what are you doing playing marth or mk with luigi. On that note, what are you doing taking DK here? Frigate bro, FRIGATE. Or if he bans frigate, freakin' cruise!

elheber · Sep 29, 2009

CR4SH said:
Plus, what are you doing playing marth or mk with luigi.

Because if I were to switch to another character, I couldn't give tips for Luigi's matchups/stages.

I mean, if you went into a matchup guide and under a particularly hard matchup it said, "pick another character" then it would be a pretty horrible matchup guide. Besides, Marth isn't very hard for me. I have more trouble with the ICs and Samus.

LuigiKing · Sep 29, 2009

Hey elheber, have you finally shown up to some tournies in Cali? I just noticed you live in LA, so you have noooooooo excuses =]

A2ZOMG · Sep 29, 2009

Imo, this stage is good against Ike, Kirby, Bowser, DK, Marth, Ganondorf, and Captain Falcon.

Especially Ike, Bowser, DK, and Ganondorf. These ppl suck at getting back to the ground, and you can camp them. Bowser and DK are also VERY easy to edgeguard when there are no platforms.

In general it's a good stage against people with limited options for escaping juggles, and against people you can camp.

chic · Sep 29, 2009

this is the first stage i strike in tournaments. theres no point in going here especially when you have bf, yoshis for starters. if someone ever cps this stage against me i focus on good use of tornado for approaching, using oos attacks and being really really observant. campers/projectile users love this stage. also, will probably get shield grabbed alot if you don't have a good spacing game

CR4SH · Sep 29, 2009

A2ZOMG said:
In general it's a good stage against people with limited options for escaping juggles, and against people you can camp.

You mean...like luigi?

TreK · Sep 29, 2009

I usually only pick FD if (I'm playing Diddy) if I'm against someone that's extremely good at juggling, because it's one of my personnal weaknesses... This stage has nothing for Luigi really=/

four weegees

- 1/2 a Weegee for those stages that you have trouble coming up with a score for.

OMFG YOU MURDERED WEEGEE !!!

DTP · Sep 29, 2009

teneban said:
OMFG YOU MURDERED WEEGEE !!!

ROFL !! xD

DTP · Oct 1, 2009

I think it's safe to say that we're basically finished with FD correct?
There's not much to discuss with this stage in the first place, not for us anyways.

Any last words or ratings before we move on?

KoRoBeNiKi · Oct 1, 2009

FD is a nice choice....if characters didn't have projectiles.

That being said....who doesn't have a projectile. I don't prefer this stage as my first stage vs anyone but characters who Luigi seriously needs to space vs. This means, MK, Marth, Ike, and very slightly GaW.

For overall:

elheber · Oct 2, 2009

I think we all agree FD is fine against chars with no projectiles, or with projectiles that suck more than Luigi's fireball (like G&W for example), and bad otherwise. That's probably the best simple conclusion to make of it.

hippiedude92 · Oct 2, 2009

Hit and runs are fun in this stage lol. People who can hit and run and escape you on this stage is very gay for Luigi like Snake's DAC and Falco's phantasm. l rather go smashville for first pick choices. Oh and never go to this stage when Diddy Kong is there lawl.

DTP · Oct 5, 2009

Sorry for not updating >__<
I will be doing that tomorrow though

We'll also be starting on the next stage. I have yet to decide which one, but I'll make it a more interesting one
lawl

FD is boring.......

kigbariom · Oct 5, 2009

FD makes me feel vulnerable. There are no platforms for me to rest or camp on. I don't like it. Unless I'm facing Lucas. It helps me avoid his up smash in that case because he's not waiting under platforms like in Battlefield or something.

elheber · Oct 5, 2009

Battlefield: Luigi's greatest starter stage.

DTP · Oct 5, 2009

kigbariom said:
FD makes me feel vulnerable. There are no platforms for me to rest or camp on. I don't like it.

Ah too true lol

Anyways, I've decided on the next stage that we'll be discussing!

Pokemon Stadium 1

I personally love this stage. Only thing I hate is when I get screwed over by the ledge......
lawl

So, what options do we have here.
Remember there are 5 different settings here

Standard - The one we start on (My favorite)
Water - Windmill......
Fire - Can get gayed by wall infinites
Ground - Campy
Grass - Uh..... it has trees? This one is a basic transformation

Who should we avoid here, who should we take here, should we be going here i the first place.

Personally I feel Luigi does really well here. Luigi isn't good or bad on any stages really and same applies to these transformations, imo.

EDIT: Ugh.... posting in Orange and green makes my posts look like a carrot. I should stop

TreK · Oct 5, 2009

Standard -> a better BF, which is my best stage anyway xD
Water -> lots of tricks to do here... take the control of the left part AS SOON AS you see the water part announced. utilt or nair your opponent if possible, because this is juggle-city XD
Fireball is kinda broken here, depends on the opponent.
Fire -> there's a safe place on the middle of the slope right before the house ; be sure to control it or make your opponent not control it. You will be KIND of safe from projectiles, will outrange most grabs, will make aerials miss just by walking left or right, blah blah blah. If you're leading, you could try to gay the opponent by just waiting him on the left part. Unless it's ZSS ._.
Ground -> fireballs can bounce on slopes, profit of it as much as you can here. You don't want to get infinited so wait until it changes back to normal. The left part of the stage is actually a bad position, you will be pressured when the transition occurs... And we know Luigi's ledge game ; you really don't want to be there.
Grass -> treat it like halberd.

Whenever the stage transitions, everyone will fall off a small step at the half of it ; and this will cancel some grounded moves (A moves and landing lags, mostly, but we have no landing lag so A moves

). Be sure to be grabbing your opponent there, because our jab is faster than a shield. Free shoryuken on some characters, yup :V

SEVEN weegees !
Would be 5 normally but the blastzones are Luigi-friendly <3

hippiedude92 · Oct 6, 2009

Things you should be aware off: DO NOT GET STUCK RECOVERING UNDER THE STAGE! Some people have missed the sweetspot and ended up under the edge and lost so many stocks because PS1's edge is really ****ing dumb as ****. So becareful when aiming for sweetspot the edge.

I do and don't like this stage because from past experiences l've won like equally as much as l lost.

Wall infinites aren't your friend here since many of the top tiers can abuse the walls on you. Also know that, by hitting yourself to the wall, you can gradually stop your momentum maybe saving you from getting killed.

My favorite part is the grass stage mostly because of the well placed platforms. Upairs/utilts are tasty on the platforms. Shoryukens/aerial kills on top of the grass platform kills slightly early too as well.

oh and try to be good in wall teching because you'll be getting stage spiked alot.

DTP · Oct 10, 2009

Is that really all we have for Pokemon Stadium >__>
lol

Maniclysane · Oct 10, 2009

I don't really know. The grass part is sex, and I do like the water part a lot too, but I rarely do well on the rock part.

I'd pick this stage a lot when I mained D3. I really don't have much to say as far as PS1 goes.

CR4SH · Oct 11, 2009

I honestly don't give much thought to ps1. It's basically a pretty bland stage for luigi. You don't really have to do anything special or watch out for anything in particular. It doesn't really change any matchups not named dedede.

Ummm, if you get lipped on the edge during an upb don't give up. Hold up and towards the edge and most of the time luigi will grab it, very similar to lylat. Luigi ***** the windmill against anyone but like rob, dk and specific diddys (ones very familiar with it). So utilt like a madman, spam it if you want since alot of the time the blades will force people to you. Basically people have a hard time getting away from you and utilt will lock at any %. Look for failed rolls (to avoid getting pushed by the windmill blades) and you can get some really easy hits.

Grass- Play luigi.
Fire- camp, stay away from the right side of the tree.

Ground- Don't go to the left side. It looks like paradise but really its just a gimp invitation. Someone hits your shield there and they get a chance to gimp you since you slide off the stage. Lots of characters think they're safe or clever to camp in the middle of the scaffolding. If they're not rob, diddy or d3, go teach them a lesson. Most characters should not be that comfortable being close to luigi.

On the neutral part, play luigi. Tornado works better than normal, edges are harsher than normal. If they get caught on a platform throw aerials at them. Expect them to shield and get knocked off for a free hit. If they don't shield, cheer. Halfway through a match people will get wise and start using their dj instead of landing. Exploit this and go grab them where they land.

Basically, if this is a stage you know really well from another character and you won the neutral, no reason not to take a person here. If this stage is on your strikes list and the other person doesn't play ddd, diddy, rob or DK, no reason to ever strike this unless BF or yosh is left open on the last two and you have a strike left to give.

Honestly what I use this stage for is to mask my counterpicks. I use 3 different characters in tournament (luigi and the monkeys) and this is a stage they're all very soild on.

For instance. I played overswarm yesterday at the regional tournament and played his mk tough with my diddy in the first game. I had lots of options for counterpicks but this one looked like the most ambiguous and the matchup I wanted to play was luigi-rob. Since I knew he thinks his rob ***** diddy, I went to a stage that looked reasonable for diddy but I knew also worked for luigi, but would still put me at an advantage if he stayed MK. He went rob, I went luigi and I won. It's a good tool overall, but nothing you should rely on if you go solid luigi.

Edit, I forgot ratings on this and fd, so I'll do them here.
FD:

because its not japes or mansion.
PS1:

Nothing special, but overall solid.

yoshq · Oct 15, 2009

I'm not going to post anything intelligent here, except it's not good against dk, he can wall infinite here!

but I just wanted to say this:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c216/yoshq/Untitled2.gif

KoRoBeNiKi · Oct 15, 2009

For PS1, It really matters who your facing...its much better than FD or SV vs projectile characters. It's in the middle for me when its a neutral. Outside of neutral, its a reasonable counterpick but nothnig special.

better than FD and SV, worse than BF and YI usually.

5 weegee's

Stage Discussion - Level 1-2: Pokemon Stadium 1

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L o s t - in reality~

L o s t - in reality~

Smash Hero

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L o s t - in reality~

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Is "that guy"

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