• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

WASPING: Autocancelled Fair/Bair as a form of wavedashing. *Demo video is up*

LanceStern

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Messages
1,636
Location
San Diego, CA. (619)
Hey guys, I'm not very good with long introductions. I love reading eloquent intros to awesome discoveries and techniques, but I jsut get bored with them so here goes. I'm a Samus main. I enjoy using her but she has some crazy ridiculous matchups that when played correctly is almost unwinnable (coughOlimarcoughMetaknightcough). I decided to pick up Peach for fun because she has some cool mechanics. I was also inspired by Armada and his Genesis videos. I've been lurking and posting in this board for about 3 months now I think

While using Peach I don't know what made me do it, but I was practicing against a computer and accidently slid backwards with the bair. I realized it spaced me perfectly away from their fsmash and I was able to punish them with a slightly-boosted fsmash of my own. So I decided to keep trying.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WASPING...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_mRE3FWab4 - Demo video

What I found was the auto-cancelled (or float cancelled I don't know the technical term) is great for spacing backwards directly into a move. I kept trying and found it perfect for:

+ Spacing Marth fairs, lucario fsmashes, fox fsmashes, MK dsmashes etc.

It could also catch turnips and lead into grabs. Great for mindgames because it looks like a slightly slower version of the wavedash. Dash/run to the opponent then wasp backwards to freak them out. You can do it both ways (going fowards is an auto-cancelled fair) but you get more slide going backwards than forwards. Here's what I did:

How to do it

F-Wasp (Forward wasp)
Method #1:
1. Hold R (optional)
2. Hold down on the control stick and angle it forwards (diagonal forward)
3. While holding down, Jump
4. Immediately hit A.

*Method #2: (lets you hold turnips)
1. Hold down on the control stick and angle it forwards (diagonal forward)
2. Jump
3. Hit shield (R or L)
When I think about it, Method #2 is just like a wavedash motion in Melee.


You should slide the distance of about a fsmash tennis racket.

B-Wasp (Backwards wasp)

*Method #1:
1. Hold R (optional)
2. Hold down on the control stick and angle it backwards (diagonal back)
3. While holding down, Jump
4. Immediately hit A.

Method#2: (allows you to hold turnips but doesn't slide as far as method #1)
1. hold down on the control stick and angle it backwards
2. Jump
3. Immediately hit shield

* - Best method to use.


What happens is Peach does an abbreviated version of the bair with the slide distance of about her fsmash with the tennis racket. Only it's not a slide it's a jump that's floated into a bair. You should see her head popup and her yell "ha" like doing a bair.



Frequently Asked Questions

1. Why not just dash->powershield?
That's just it, you have to dash to get the block on an attack. With this bair spacing tool, you can be standing still and immediately have a way to space away from an approach/attack and come back with a punishment.

2. It puts you too far away from the opponent.
That's good in some ways, and not true in others. Check out the videos below and you'll see that the f/b wasp spaces you away from/towards the enemy enough to punish them, or mindgame them.

3. Is it viable?
I'm not sure but I think if people perfected it then yes! It's relatively easy to perform, almost like a wavedash (I can do it about 80% of the time in a game). Great for spacing and mindgames. It can be done moving forward too, you just get less distance. You can also hold a turnip to increase punishment options. Wasp forward/backwards then throw the turnip. Or hide your stitchface with a barrage of wasping and dashing.

I believe it is THAT technique that Peach needs to move up even just an inch in the tiers. She looks like the Peach from Melee, and it gives her a formiddable and FAST ground game...

There are combos/mindgames with it:
1. Jab x2 -> wasp toward the opponent -> jab -> grab
2. Wasp -> Dsmash (yes you can slide your dsmash now)
3. Techchase wasp -> Dsmash
4. Wasp mindgames back and forth -> usmash
5. Wasp to space yourself to or from a standing/attacking/falling opponent -> fsmash
6. Wasp back/forward -> dash attack
7. Wasp back -> Jab


Videos

Wasping Demo #1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_mRE3FWab4 - Demo video
Shows the wasping in training mode and some uses for it.


Wasping Demo #2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2RPFbVOu6U
vs. Lvl 9 CPU Marth... Looks like Melee Peach?

Things to look for at what time:
0:16 – 0:18 B-wasp space
0:26- 0:30 F-wasp space
0:36-0:40 B-wasp space
0:42 – 0:45 F-wasp -> Dsmash
2:11 – 2:16 F-wasp -> space -> fsmash


Wasping Demo #3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87KNfNlE5lk
vs. Lvl9 CPU Ike.... random combos and beatdowns plus chain grab
0:10 - 0:12 Bair Space
0:13 - 018 Down grab crain grab and ftilt lock
0:55 – 0:59 3x Bair Wasp -> Fair Wasp Dsmash (CAN’T DO THAT WITH DASHING SON!!!)
1:26 – 1:30 -> Bair Wasp space -> fsmash


Wasping Demos #4, 5, 6
These videos show how you can use the wasping to punish opponents, mindgame, or simply respace yourself when you wouldn't be able to otherwise

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0L5TR2K5c-U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vv4tnEdmJw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r72UAW_S0aM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcRWa5go42c - ( See time 00:40 - 00:45, wavedashing o_O )


You can also search at Youtube under the name "Peach wasping".




PS. - I noticed Peaches' movements remind me a lot like that of a wasp. They float and hover around enemies and move in to strike, then float back out. Peach has that same disturbing erratic floating motion. What are the odds of coining the phrase "wasping" to describe her floating techniques and patterns.

Rather than saying "work on your float techniques and how you space with floats", you could say "work on your wasping". Any thoughts?
 

White-Peach

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 4, 2003
Messages
832
Location
Waldorf, Maryland
I've already brought it up as something I call "counterspacing" because she has a lot of moves that move her hurtbox away and prime her for a counterattack (if the move itself doesnt act as a re-spacer and counterattack all in one).

Slap (Away)/DTilt/(Stutter step or not) FSmash/BAir/(maybe include backwards glide tosses too)

FAir moves her toward her opponent, not away initially, which is why i didnt include it. All of the above attacks move her hurtbox back, effectively re-spacing an opponent's approach. DTilt is probably the weakest, with FSmash being the most effective. You don't even have to really predict anything, because you essentially move yourself to a safer spot via movement/attack spacing, and counterattack. Spaced FSmashes are difficult to punish without a powershield, and heaven help you if you respace an aerial approach, because its safe.

I know I've been touting the amazingness of backwards stutter-stepped FSmashes since I started posting again, and Edreese made a post some time ago about moving your hurtbox while recovering with BAir, but I don't know if other players really caught on.
 

Razmakazi

Smash Champion
Joined
May 30, 2008
Messages
2,446
Location
Hawthorne, CA
well for aerial moves like marth's/squirtle's fair or wario's dair or w/e I just outspace those with stutter stepped fsmashes but for ground moves the bair thing could work, just have to be rly tight with the spacing so as not to run into something stupid. I've used bair to dodge moves while airborne before but I never really thought of this. I'd still rather powershield certain moves like lucario's fsmash coz it's hard to punish when you don't powershield it or other long ranged moves that can't really be punished hard without powershielding, resulting in just a dash atk.

cool idea to toy with though.
 

LanceStern

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Messages
1,636
Location
San Diego, CA. (619)
Yea there's definitley still room if you are dashing to powershield, this "wasping" is for either dashing or just standing still.

Using floats to space is perfect fine, especially if you want to punish with fair or nair. But if you want to keep those moves fresh or punish with a fsmash or dash attack and don't have room to dash -> shield, this is great for spacing back and punishing.

It's also really fast. I'm no frame-junkie though. If I can get this on an SD card would anyone be willing to upload videos?
 

Nicole

Smash Champion
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
2,868
Location
MIDWEST
I've been trying to perfect this bair thing also after watching a really old vid of Dark Peach doing some crazy ground floating stuff. Autocancelled ground floated Bairs are awesome. They look crazy. Which is good. It reminds me of Diddy dribbling with bananas - they're not actually doing anything to you, but you watch them anyway and are distracted, so they're more likely to hit you because you're less on guard. Misdirection, I think it's called.

This is really fast also, if it's done right. It's a great OOS option if your opponent is 2 and you are 1 (and you are both facing the same direction) - - - (1) 2
Bair has more range than Nair OOS, so you're able to punish characters with powerful, shield stunning moves (Lucario, Snake, Marth, MK's Dsmash, etc)

It's really cool, I think. I need to get much better at executing it before I can start experimenting with it at other times. I think it could potentially be pretty useful, it just takes some practice.
 

LanceStern

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Messages
1,636
Location
San Diego, CA. (619)
I'm sorry for the topic space, but guys this is LEGIT (imo). And I'm excitied. But I need help I have no way of getting videos up. I have dial up, no WFC, no SD cards (yet), no youtube... it hurts.

I have some pretty nice videos of it on my Wii. It's not just bair anymore it's fair-cancelling and bair cancelling to give the illusion of wavedashing, and I think it is that "sliding technique" that Peach needs to move up even just an inch in the tier (from top of C to bottom of B lol). She looks like the Peach from Melee...
 

Rickerdy-doo-da-day

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 13, 2008
Messages
4,861
Location
Toot Toot thrills in Green Hills (England, UK)
NNID
RicardoAvocado
It looks pretty flashy when done right but I'm not sure if it would move her up on the tier list

I'll try messing around with it in some matches but it looks like it could be pretty dangerous sometimes if you do this instead of sheilding/dodging only to find you misjudged the size of the attack coming at you. I'd feel much safer just doing a stutter step F Smash

Also, if you're after a truly autocancelled Bair, you have wait a sec (drop your Float near towards the end of whatever Peach is saying when doing the Bair) otherwise you'll drop down and do a laggy Bair...yea there isn't much lag when do a laggy Bair but that could still mean the difference between getting smash attacked and not
 

Meru.

I like spicy food
Joined
Dec 24, 2008
Messages
3,835
Location
The Netherlands, sometimes Japan
NNID
Merudi
3DS FC
0963-1622-2801
Actually, I have looked into it, but it certainly didn't look like Melee Peach. It wasn't as fast or she didn't slide far at all. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong. I'll try better. Can't wait for for video ;p

:053:
 

LanceStern

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Messages
1,636
Location
San Diego, CA. (619)
Maybe I just got superhyped about it. I'll tone it down. Like I was bursting to get them up. But they might get shot down, I don't know.

And Rickerdy you are right it can be VERY dangerous to yourself especially with Brawls' buffering system. It has some nice payoffs too, particularly punishing mistakes with ground attacks rather than just punishing with (Fair, Bair and grab, which are fine by themselves)
 

Rickerdy-doo-da-day

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 13, 2008
Messages
4,861
Location
Toot Toot thrills in Green Hills (England, UK)
NNID
RicardoAvocado
Lol no ones going to shoot you down. If it works and is useful, great, if not, oh well. Thats how we find out good things and help make a character better

The slide for the Bair autocancel is significant (it pretty much looks like you've sutter stepped) but until I can see someone put this into practice and make it look worthwhile/show it is viable and worthwhile I just don't see why stutter stepping wouldn't be better, bear in mind if you're on the ground you can sheild, theres no chance of you doing a laggy Bair/Fair and performing an aerial anyway gives you extra frames of landing lag (someone correct me on this one, I could have sworn I read somewhere it did that)
 

LanceStern

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Messages
1,636
Location
San Diego, CA. (619)
It's not just bair anymore it's fair-cancelling and bair cancelling to give the illusion of wavedashing, and I believe it is that "sliding technique" that Peach needs to move up even just an inch in the tiers. She looks like the Peach from Melee... and allows for some ground punishment that may not have been possible.

Probably the most notable things are:
1) You can now punish with Dsmash. I don't care how much it's been nerfed, it can still kick butt and lead to pain. Previously we could only do dsmash in place, but with the Wasp you can either slide forward or back and dsmash. I actually techchased a roll with this!

2) Wasp mindgames to fsmash. You can watch it in the video. It allows you to space away from the opponent and punish. This comes if you don't want to suffer shield lag/knockback. Plus if you're trying to get in on the opponent, you can't dash -> shield without major lag. Wasp -> shield or something is great.

It won't replace powershielding, but it does add options.

There are combos/mindgames with it:
1. Jab x2 -> wasp toward the opponent -> jab -> grab
2. Wasp -> Dsmash (yes you can slide your dsmash now)
3. Techchase wasp -> Dsmash
4. Wasp mindgames back and forth -> usmash
5. Wasp to space yourself to or from a standing/attacking/falling opponent -> fsmash
6. Wasp back/forward -> dash attack
7. Wasp back -> Jab


3. Videos?

Video is up
Wasping Demo #2 vs. Marth... Looks like Melee Peach?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2RPFbVOu6U

0:16 – 0:18 Bair space
0:26- 0:30 Fair space
0:36-0:40 Bair space
0:42 – 0:45 Fair -> Dsmash
2:11 – 2:16 Fair -> space -> fsmash

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87KNfNlE5lk
Wasping Demo #1 vs. Ike ... Random beatdown plus nice combos and tilt lock
0:10 - 0:12 Bair Space
0:13 - 018 Down grab crain grab and ftilt lock
0:55 – 0:59 3x Bair Wasp -> Fair Wasp Dsmash (CAN’T DO THAT WITH DASHING SON!!!)
1:26 – 1:30 -> Bair Wasp space -> fsmash



It is worth mentioning this is versus level 9 computers.
 

Rickerdy-doo-da-day

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 13, 2008
Messages
4,861
Location
Toot Toot thrills in Green Hills (England, UK)
NNID
RicardoAvocado
Maybe its just me but I'm still not entirely convinced, especially since you did it vs CPUs. Ironically, in your first vid at 2:21, you actually got killed for doing this wasping thing and the 2:11 -2:16 most definitly would not have worked if Marth had released his Neutral B. In your 2nd vid 1:21, you tried to wasp to F Smash and put your F Smash out of range whilst still being in Ikes jab range. The 1:26 - 1:30 Bair wasp F Smash thing wouldn't have worked had you not had invincibilty frames left over from when you died. In the same video at 2:06, you got Side B'ed by Ike for trying to do wasping (thats what it looked like anyway)

Punishing with D Smash is an interesting idea by moving your body with an aerial but again, if someone is going to roll, you could easily walk up to them and simply D Smash them to punish them if they're rolling that close to you. If they're rolling away fair enough but I would have though that a Dash Attack or Glide Tossed Turnip would have been more use rather than hitting them with D Smash which doesn't send them very far

On the subject of point 2, how does dash --> sheild give you major lag but wasping --> dash doesn't? I would have thought it'd give you more lag because you now have the extra lag of performing an aerial in the air and landing. Again, you could save yourself the hassle and just do a stutter step F Smash and cut out the middleman. This would generally be a lot safer since you don't have the lag of doing an aerial and you minimize chance of error by simply stutter stepping

Something I'm curious about is the Bair wasping you did. Those weren't autocancelled Bairs, they were laggy Bairs. To do an autocancelled Bair wasp, you have to perform the Bair and then wait about a second, then drop your float, otherwise you get those laggy Bairs you were showing in the video. Are you sure they would be safe since they do give you more lag than if you just either walked or simply Floated away?


I don't want to strike myself off as an arse but I personally am still not quite feeling this. Maybe moving yourself when running away from your opponent throwing it out once and moving your body away whilst ground Float as a one time trick but if you're running away, why not Bone Walk instead? Also, your opponent will be incredibly wary if you're ground Floating as such a distance away anyway. Trying to do this up close in the heat of the battle is just screaming for incorrect inputs. Not only that, it adds more lag and elimantes sheilding for longer than needed which I don't think is a good idea, especially up close

If you think I'm talking rubbish by all means please say so but I personally still don't see this as massively game changing
 

Eddie G

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
Messages
9,123
Location
Cleveland, OH
NNID
neohmarth216
It looks alright, but I'll stick to defensive play with bone-walking and retreating with pivot glidetosses for now. I'll definitely keep an eye out for any new developments with this though. It never hurts to have another trick at my disposal. :)
 

LanceStern

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Messages
1,636
Location
San Diego, CA. (619)
I appreciate both inputs. I'll respond later.

And yes I mentioned I think in the original topic that I don't know the actual correct term for the bair I'm doing if it was autocancelled or what

Rickerdy doo da day said:
Maybe its just me but I'm still not entirely convinced, especially since you did it vs CPUs. Ironically, in your first vid at 2:21, you actually got killed for doing this wasping thing and the 2:11 -2:16 most definitly would not have worked if Marth had released his Neutral B. In your 2nd vid 1:21, you tried to wasp to F Smash and put your F Smash out of range whilst still being in Ikes jab range. The 1:26 - 1:30 Bair wasp F Smash thing wouldn't have worked had you not had invincibilty frames left over from when you died. In the same video at 2:06, you got Side B'ed by Ike for trying to do wasping (thats what it looked like anyway)
I am a completely agressive Peach, and I think this might best be used with "Up in your face" Peaches who like a risk. I definitely understand the fear of being punished, and I need to eprfect doing it on command (you see a lot of rising airdodges from mistakes).

If you do it wrong, it can definitely put you in a bad position. But so can Dragonic Reversing, or even Bone Walking.


Punishing with D Smash is an interesting idea by moving your body with an aerial but again, if someone is going to roll, you could easily walk up to them and simply D Smash them to punish them if they're rolling that close to you. If they're rolling away fair enough but I would have though that a Dash Attack or Glide Tossed Turnip would have been more use rather than hitting them with D Smash which doesn't send them very far
I'd say again it's great for agression. If you look at 0:42-0:45 Marth approached with a short hop but then shielded as a mixup. I was a distance away but wasp forward let me approach and dsmash his shield to pieces. A stutter stepped fsmash would work too, but it's another option. I like punishing with Dsmash

Then again at 0:55 - 0:58 in video1 vs. Ike, MAYBE a stutter stepped golf club could reach the fair by Ike. But you'd have to get away from the fair first, which the wasp (narrowly) escaped.

On the subject of point 2, how does dash --> sheild give you major lag but wasping --> dash doesn't? I would have thought it'd give you more lag because you now have the extra lag of performing an aerial in the air and landing. Again, you could save yourself the hassle and just do a stutter step F Smash and cut out the middleman. This would generally be a lot safer since you don't have the lag of doing an aerial and you minimize chance of error by simply stutter stepping
I'm talking about a dash (not a run). If I try to dash a short distance and shield, there is a LOT of lag to wait for the dash animation to end.
Am I doing stutter step fsmash wrong? because it doesn't give me that much space between the opponent. Not as much as wasping at least?

Something I'm curious about is the Bair wasping you did. Those weren't autocancelled Bairs, they were laggy Bairs. To do an autocancelled Bair wasp, you have to perform the Bair and then wait about a second, then drop your float, otherwise you get those laggy Bairs you were showing in the video. Are you sure they would be safe since they do give you more lag than if you just either walked or simply Floated away?
I'm not seeing the difference? Wasping is supposed to cancel some of the Bair ending animation by doing it into the floor. The way you say sounds different


I don't want to strike myself off as an arse but I personally am still not quite feeling this. Maybe moving yourself when running away from your opponent throwing it out once and moving your body away whilst ground Float as a one time trick but if you're running away, why not Bone Walk instead? Also, your opponent will be incredibly wary if you're ground Floating as such a distance away anyway. Trying to do this up close in the heat of the battle is just screaming for incorrect inputs. Not only that, it adds more lag and elimantes sheilding for longer than needed which I don't think is a good idea, especially up close

If you think I'm talking rubbish by all means please say so but I personally still don't see this as massively game changing
I don't think you are rude at all, I value the input. I wanted tos ee what people think of it
 

Gadiel_VaStar

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Messages
2,066
Location
Atlanta, GA
NNID
GadielVaStar
This may be useful, but there are a lot of other things most Peaches could be doing. I don't think anyone has mastered their mindgaming and risk/reward decision making yet. This is a good fake-out, but should only be implemented into the games of top Peach players. The beginning Peaches like me need to focus on the above before we focus on Wasping.
 

Dekar173

Justice Man
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
3,126
Location
Albuquerque, NM
Your demonstration video shouldn't be you doing it against a CPU.

It should just be a demo of you doing it 8-10 times in a row on FD, demonstrating the exact amount of space it yields when used.

People can think of applications of this sort of thing on their own, what they need is "what does it do? how do i do it?"

and that's it.


Otherwise, nice stuff :)
 

LanceStern

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Messages
1,636
Location
San Diego, CA. (619)
I have no hard numerical data to answer that.

And I meant to say I'm very sorry I logged off last night. My internet connection died, I meant to ask how you have been? But I'll do that later lol.
 

hotgarbage

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 15, 2007
Messages
1,028
Location
PA
1 simple question is all I need to decide if this is good or not:

Frames wise, is this faster than simply ground floating back??
Nah; a maximum length "wasp" takes 19 frames to do at minimum. You'll actually travel a little further if you just float backwards for 19 frames. The catch here is that when you land from the bair you "teleport" backwards a noticeable distance. This makes it so you'll initially cover more ground by doing this than simply floating backwards, which in turn makes it more useful if you want to quickly get out of the way of something.

My personal take is that while this is better than I thought it's not super good either; it's just a bit too slow. Using this OoS is pretty neat I think, as is using it from a dash. Using it for pure movement purposes though makes no sense as "peachdashing" is much faster.
 

LanceStern

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Messages
1,636
Location
San Diego, CA. (619)
Amen, hotgarbage! Did you do the frame testing already, cause it certainly looks faster than floating. I think the way she teleports moves her hurtbox like a bair too. Cause when I move back with floating I get hit, I don't think it covers the ground that fast and can retaliate. But not sure.

Again I use wasping for:
- Immediately spacing away while facing the opponent to punish
- Punishing with dsmash (again I love dsmash)
- Bair -> jab/dsmash/upsmash/fsmash

I love floating, but then I could only punish with aerials. I like ground punishment too.
 

hotgarbage

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 15, 2007
Messages
1,028
Location
PA
Amen, hotgarbage! Did you do the frame testing already, cause it certainly looks faster than floating.
Yes I did, buuuuuuuut
You'll actually travel a little further if you just float backwards for 19 frames.
After looking at it again this is incorrect. You actually go a tiny bit further doing this than by just floating for the same amount of time. I wasn't buffering things correctly when I first tested it.
 

LanceStern

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Messages
1,636
Location
San Diego, CA. (619)
Wasping is something that's quite recent? Ive known and done this since mid-last year...
Both forwards and backwards? What did you use it for?

After looking at it again this is incorrect. You actually go a tiny bit further doing this than by just floating for the same amount of time. I wasn't buffering things correctly when I first tested it.
So wasping is faster, moves you further and you can punish with ground moves... I like it!

I think it buffers the shield faster too. Just hold shield and wasp while never releasing shield and it comes up instantly.
 

Rickerdy-doo-da-day

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 13, 2008
Messages
4,861
Location
Toot Toot thrills in Green Hills (England, UK)
NNID
RicardoAvocado
Well if it makes you feel any better, I actually try this out on a random whim in one of my matches and 'wasped' with a Bair out the way of an aerial and F Smashed my opponent xD

I'm still concerned about the landing lag it can give you, paticularly Bair which is much more helpful than Fair. If you try doing vs a character that suddenly uses a rather long range move, the lag could cause you to get hit...and, well, die :x
 

Excel_Zero

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
1,201
Location
Puerto Rico
I love floating, but then I could only punish with aerials. I like ground punishment too.
You can actually punish with ground moves if you float and land.

I'd say this technique is somewhat situational. But I would personally prefer to simply groundfloat since I can control my spacing better with it.
 

Sky`

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
1,774
Location
Gilroy CA
I don't like this for a couple of reasons.

1. I thought this was already known?

2. If you try to 'wavedash' in brawl with Peach, she does this movement, and it's cute but Not exactly the best option to do in most cases.
 

gantrain05

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
3,840
Location
Maxwell, IA
i didn't know this had a name, i've been doing it forever, basically "wasping" into opponents and shield stabbing with a Dsmash after, works wonders when your camping warios actually. i don't use it to space tho, i do that with turnips lol.
 

Niko_K

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
4,797
Location
Oshawa 905
When you float and bair ending animation brings you backwards. Fair brings you forwards.

It's brawls momentum mechanics.

Not an AT.
 

LanceStern

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Messages
1,636
Location
San Diego, CA. (619)
Hm, I don't recall ever calling it an AT, but it certainly is something that I challenge you to get really good at and tell me if it's easy to do?

I just found I can do this with a turnip in hand for the fair->wasp, just hit R instead of A. The bair->wasp w/turnip is possible but you lose some space. I'd say maybe glide toss.

But it certainly is a great technique. I'm definitely going to keep promoting it. I'm trying to get more videos up. It's just a great mindgame and spacing tool. Plus you really get some great jab/dsmash/fsmash punishments with this technique.
 

Metatitan

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 3, 2008
Messages
3,576
Location
Six Feet Under
That's really not anything helpful, sorry D:

As others have told you it's probably better to just float backwards and drop down or even flap.

Can a mod close this thread? I think it's pretty much over
 

White-Peach

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 4, 2003
Messages
832
Location
Waldorf, Maryland
I don't know. If you have the foresight to even use this movement technique, why not powershield instead? It requires less frames, has no ending lag, and gives you the frame advantage while keeping you in range. This "wasping" has startup, ending lag, and puts you further away, limiting your punishment options :/
 

LanceStern

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Messages
1,636
Location
San Diego, CA. (619)
I don't know. If you have the foresight to even use this movement technique, why not powershield instead? It requires less frames, has no ending lag, and gives you the frame advantage while keeping you in range. This "wasping" has startup, ending lag, and puts you further away, limiting your punishment options :/
If you mess up the power shield you're going to get shield stun. Also you can't shield immediately out of a dash (not a run, a dash) so how would you defend yourself besides respacing? Wasping is faster than floating out of harms way. I think it would be great for agressive Peaches.

And you can also use wasping to approach and punish. A few of the videos show the forward-wasp to dsmash, fsmash, dash attack, upsmash and ftilt punish. The demo video I showed also has her doing a jab punishment. This wouldn't be possible with any other approach from the ground I think.

But here's a few more videos. Rather than moving you further away, i like to say it puts you out of harms way and you can still punish. They can be found by just searching youtube "Peach wasping":


Wasping Demos #4, 5, 6
These videos show how you can use the wasping to punish opponents, mindgame, or simply respace yourself when you wouldn't be able to otherwise

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0L5TR2K5c-U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vv4tnEdmJw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r72UAW_S0aM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcRWa5go42c - ( See time 00:40 - 00:45, wavedashing o_O )

But you are not limited I gurantee you.

I won't talk too much about it more cause people have seen it and made some opinions on it. Hopefully it catches on to SOMEONE.
 
Top Bottom