TLMSheikant
Smash Master
Another rediscussion.
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Toon Link Matchup Rediscussion #17: Sheik
- Thread starter TLMSheikant
- Start date
saviorslegacy
My avater is not a Sheik avatar.
The essence of Sheik is punishing and comboing.
Toon Link can try and avoid such things but we have enough speed to penetrate any of your walls.
When it come's down to it, we really can't combo you like we do other characters. So that is your advantage.
However, we can Bair you without a lot of worry since we out range you. Our Bair also destroys your projectiles (except of bombs) so I see us cutting our way into you a lot.
The best way to beat Sheik is to try and keep a wall up and force her to Bair/shield and then try and punish that. Also Zair, that is a spacing option that we have little answers too.
Beware of her juggling though, you have few options to cover under you except for a bomb and that can be seen coming, so be careful.
Oh, and try to gimp us, that is a good way to get a KO on Sheik.
Other than that remember to grab. It is a very good options since it out ranges us on a lot of our moves.
The best time to do this is when you can escape a f-tilt lock cuz most Sheiks will either u-tilt/DSmash and both can be grabbed.
I say that the match up is 55 - 45 Sheik mainly because we can go through your walls and out speed you up close.
Toon Link can try and avoid such things but we have enough speed to penetrate any of your walls.
When it come's down to it, we really can't combo you like we do other characters. So that is your advantage.
However, we can Bair you without a lot of worry since we out range you. Our Bair also destroys your projectiles (except of bombs) so I see us cutting our way into you a lot.
The best way to beat Sheik is to try and keep a wall up and force her to Bair/shield and then try and punish that. Also Zair, that is a spacing option that we have little answers too.
Beware of her juggling though, you have few options to cover under you except for a bomb and that can be seen coming, so be careful.
Oh, and try to gimp us, that is a good way to get a KO on Sheik.
Other than that remember to grab. It is a very good options since it out ranges us on a lot of our moves.
The best time to do this is when you can escape a f-tilt lock cuz most Sheiks will either u-tilt/DSmash and both can be grabbed.
I say that the match up is 55 - 45 Sheik mainly because we can go through your walls and out speed you up close.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
tlink with a good zair game is mad hard
i think this matchup is even, BARELY in sheik's favor if anything, like 51:49
but on stages with lots of breathing room for tlink it's even
tlink has a lot of mixups that sheik has to worry about, like zair and that aerial -> land arrow thing. power shield everything and throw needles between the projectiles. throw needles when tlink is holding a bomb, forces him to throw it
tlink is a lot more mobile but sheik can adapt and play pretty patiently. they both have approach games against each other, tlinks are more reliable but none of them really put him in a position to KO. usually to KO sheik u either need to nick her in the air with a spaced aerial, or random usmash. random tlink usmash is too good
tlink does have a lot of strong points but sheiks frame data is just ridiculous up close and many of her moves... ftilt dtilt utilt jab dsmash... outspeed many of tlink's ground moves, heck even his jab. tlink has SLIGHTLY more range and much better air movement, so he kinda has to run away more (which im sure he is used to) sheik can kinda sorta catch up. she cant maneuver through tlink's projectiles as well as peach or metaknight can, but sheik can still get close. when she's close it's pretty ****, but it's not like sheik can deal any huge combos to tlink. it usually just comes down to mixups like ftilt -> fair -> follow up
sheik can actually edgeguard tlink which is pretty cool. needles + chain ledge guards. just use the invincibility from a chain edge hog and drop bair
very even matchup to me, and very fun. there are a lot of mixups and the matchup is very fast paced and leads to high damage because neither of them really have safe KO approaches. heck i usually kill tlink with sheik's bair or fair at like 150
oh and sheik players, watch out for tlink's utilt/usmash combos at low percent that **** is annoying lol
i think this matchup is even, BARELY in sheik's favor if anything, like 51:49
but on stages with lots of breathing room for tlink it's even
tlink has a lot of mixups that sheik has to worry about, like zair and that aerial -> land arrow thing. power shield everything and throw needles between the projectiles. throw needles when tlink is holding a bomb, forces him to throw it
tlink is a lot more mobile but sheik can adapt and play pretty patiently. they both have approach games against each other, tlinks are more reliable but none of them really put him in a position to KO. usually to KO sheik u either need to nick her in the air with a spaced aerial, or random usmash. random tlink usmash is too good
tlink does have a lot of strong points but sheiks frame data is just ridiculous up close and many of her moves... ftilt dtilt utilt jab dsmash... outspeed many of tlink's ground moves, heck even his jab. tlink has SLIGHTLY more range and much better air movement, so he kinda has to run away more (which im sure he is used to) sheik can kinda sorta catch up. she cant maneuver through tlink's projectiles as well as peach or metaknight can, but sheik can still get close. when she's close it's pretty ****, but it's not like sheik can deal any huge combos to tlink. it usually just comes down to mixups like ftilt -> fair -> follow up
sheik can actually edgeguard tlink which is pretty cool. needles + chain ledge guards. just use the invincibility from a chain edge hog and drop bair
very even matchup to me, and very fun. there are a lot of mixups and the matchup is very fast paced and leads to high damage because neither of them really have safe KO approaches. heck i usually kill tlink with sheik's bair or fair at like 150
oh and sheik players, watch out for tlink's utilt/usmash combos at low percent that **** is annoying lol
Lol. that last sentence. Let me paraphrase "I think the match up is about even because we **** you."
no, toon link is too slow and too east to punish for every attack he throws out between grabs and needles its going to be hard to jump around and not take large amounts of damage. we are faster in the air faster on the ground. you just have to be patient and not run into T links set ups and projectiles.
I the sheik plays intelegently and patiently there is very little reason to lose. I don't really believe in ratios much any more since play styles and all that crap make so much of a difference. but id say it's in sheiks favor by a decent margine.
no, toon link is too slow and too east to punish for every attack he throws out between grabs and needles its going to be hard to jump around and not take large amounts of damage. we are faster in the air faster on the ground. you just have to be patient and not run into T links set ups and projectiles.
I the sheik plays intelegently and patiently there is very little reason to lose. I don't really believe in ratios much any more since play styles and all that crap make so much of a difference. but id say it's in sheiks favor by a decent margine.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
man tlink does have approaches though like that nair-> arrow or zair. his zair is tough to deal with sometimes if he spaces it right, forces ur shield up and its hard to powershield cuz u dont always see it coming
when i shield too much i get grabbed and even tho tlinks grab sucks it still sucks to take a throw and then be put in a bad position (like above tlink)
he is NOT easy to punish for his attacks. there are definitely ways to punish his moves like dair and bair, but zair and nair (LMAO sounds like a poem) are pretty hard, and also those bair-> arrow, bomb->arrow, nair->arrow, fair->arrow can kinda stuff ur punishment sometimes
i just play this matchup like a lot of other ones and just needle to force an approach then **** at close range
same as peach wario gw sonic marth lols. wow im starting to think needles are the best projectile in the game LOL
well they arent spammable but when fully charged it basically nullifies the other characters ground game, and sheik gets a lot of chances to charge needles cuz no one likes coming close to her, and she can ftilt to like 50 and knock someone away for more time anyway
ahh needle ****
when i shield too much i get grabbed and even tho tlinks grab sucks it still sucks to take a throw and then be put in a bad position (like above tlink)
he is NOT easy to punish for his attacks. there are definitely ways to punish his moves like dair and bair, but zair and nair (LMAO sounds like a poem) are pretty hard, and also those bair-> arrow, bomb->arrow, nair->arrow, fair->arrow can kinda stuff ur punishment sometimes
i just play this matchup like a lot of other ones and just needle to force an approach then **** at close range
same as peach wario gw sonic marth lols. wow im starting to think needles are the best projectile in the game LOL
well they arent spammable but when fully charged it basically nullifies the other characters ground game, and sheik gets a lot of chances to charge needles cuz no one likes coming close to her, and she can ftilt to like 50 and knock someone away for more time anyway
ahh needle ****
A~Kid/ToonethLinkage
Wants His Own Custom Title
Uair chains and Bair is all I know. I can't fight Sheik, period. IMO its slightly its advantage because of its ridiculous speed and stuff and a retardedly good DACUS. I'll just wait for a summary.
Dcold
Smash Lord
The matchup really is even.
If we get in, you're in for a while, and some good damage to boot
If we stay away we bair you but you have probably the most annoying projectiles in the game to create a wall from getting close. Most tls know to keep a bomb out at almost all times, so with that, arrows, zair, and boomerang, you guys beat us from far away (except our bair). A TL who knows how to Zair well, gives the matchup in your favor, but if not, it's even or Sheik's favor by a little, i may be a little biased, but Sheik has to matchup barely.
If we're on a big stage or one where you can do your things, then it's even, if it's a small stage that we can control our favor.
55:45 us if we can control
Even if you have breathing room.
If we get in, you're in for a while, and some good damage to boot
If we stay away we bair you but you have probably the most annoying projectiles in the game to create a wall from getting close. Most tls know to keep a bomb out at almost all times, so with that, arrows, zair, and boomerang, you guys beat us from far away (except our bair). A TL who knows how to Zair well, gives the matchup in your favor, but if not, it's even or Sheik's favor by a little, i may be a little biased, but Sheik has to matchup barely.
If we're on a big stage or one where you can do your things, then it's even, if it's a small stage that we can control our favor.
55:45 us if we can control
Even if you have breathing room.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
just power shield all of tlinks stuff when u are far away
the main problem is it is hard to powershield zair, and if u block a bomb it just pops up and makes it harder to approach
the main problem is it is hard to powershield zair, and if u block a bomb it just pops up and makes it harder to approach
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2008
- Messages
- 10,050
I don't know much about Sheik, but after watching a couple of videos, I can tell that one of the moves that we should watch out for is her DACUS. It's beast. Also, she's really fast, so we always have to be on our toes. However, Toon Link excels when Sheik is off the stage. Her recovery is easy to overcome. If she lands on the stage, it's a free grab, or just a free hit. According to the Santi video that I watched, the regular Dsmash gimp is actually really, really effective.
Where should we DI to get out of the utilt (?) chain? Up? Away? Up and away?
Oh, and by the way, the aerial land arrow thing is called a Quickdraw (QD) or an Arrow Cancel.
Where should we DI to get out of the utilt (?) chain? Up? Away? Up and away?
Oh, and by the way, the aerial land arrow thing is called a Quickdraw (QD) or an Arrow Cancel.
iLight
Smash Lord
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D77RWBdVqYM&feature=related
here is the other decent match of the set that twink is refering too
I believe this match up to be either 50/50 or 55/45 sheiks favor
In response to "her recovery is easy to overcome" tbh i wasn't necessarily playing at what would now be my best recovery, you notice i let him very easily bait me into air dodges etc. Sheik and TLink's recoveries are comparable tbh. Not to mention both sheiks gimps and tlinks gimps are comparable. Its just as easy for me to trick you into bad DI near the ledge as sheik as it is for you to potentially get me into your dsmash trap. Most attacks between sheik/tlink won't clink other than a few ground attacks, so generally the match up comes down to speed/combos/spacing/powershielding/ledgeguarding well i've already said i believe the gimping capabilities/recovery of the 2 characters are comparable if both players are being patient. So we can discount ledgeguarding. Power shielding/Spacing, also a function of simply being a competent player who can predict and I also said we have comparable cross ups, we can also discount those. So in the end if the 2 players are both reasonably competent and playing patiently it will come down to when they do decide to clash heads which can combo better/move faster. I'm not exactly sure what Tlinks best combo's are, but I know that sheik even after initial f-tilt combo to u-smash can almost always do f-tilt to fair or nair on tlink safely getting a free 20 damage depending on decay. And hands down sheik just moves so much faster than tlink, so though 2 players might both be reasonably confident in their spacing, sheik has a slight advantage here because she can move so much faster than tlink.
These are just my ideas and reasons behind what i think of this match up
here is the other decent match of the set that twink is refering too
I believe this match up to be either 50/50 or 55/45 sheiks favor
In response to "her recovery is easy to overcome" tbh i wasn't necessarily playing at what would now be my best recovery, you notice i let him very easily bait me into air dodges etc. Sheik and TLink's recoveries are comparable tbh. Not to mention both sheiks gimps and tlinks gimps are comparable. Its just as easy for me to trick you into bad DI near the ledge as sheik as it is for you to potentially get me into your dsmash trap. Most attacks between sheik/tlink won't clink other than a few ground attacks, so generally the match up comes down to speed/combos/spacing/powershielding/ledgeguarding well i've already said i believe the gimping capabilities/recovery of the 2 characters are comparable if both players are being patient. So we can discount ledgeguarding. Power shielding/Spacing, also a function of simply being a competent player who can predict and I also said we have comparable cross ups, we can also discount those. So in the end if the 2 players are both reasonably competent and playing patiently it will come down to when they do decide to clash heads which can combo better/move faster. I'm not exactly sure what Tlinks best combo's are, but I know that sheik even after initial f-tilt combo to u-smash can almost always do f-tilt to fair or nair on tlink safely getting a free 20 damage depending on decay. And hands down sheik just moves so much faster than tlink, so though 2 players might both be reasonably confident in their spacing, sheik has a slight advantage here because she can move so much faster than tlink.
These are just my ideas and reasons behind what i think of this match up
Lobos
Smash Master
That video is old....sheiks have alot to say in this match up ^.^.......I haven't played any sheiks since I played light ^^^^^ at apex :/
Radori Nighthawk
Smash Apprentice
Even matchup is even. Space well so you don't get punished.
iLight
Smash Lord
<3 lobo we should play again, i bet we both got better
Chip.
you know what to do
I come into the TL boards to find that so far the general consensus for the TL vs Sheik matchup is in their favor.
Gosh, ... now I remember why I don't come here anymore.
Play a good, camping TL and Sheik wont do so hot most of the time. I can like go into auto-pilot sometimes vs a good Sheik and still win. Not being mean, just blunt.
Gosh, ... now I remember why I don't come here anymore.
Play a good, camping TL and Sheik wont do so hot most of the time. I can like go into auto-pilot sometimes vs a good Sheik and still win. Not being mean, just blunt
.
TLMSheikant
Smash Master
I havent decided on a ratio yet chip. Do ppl really think that in this game speed beats range? And yeah, Sheik has a LOT of trouble killing and switching to zelda isnt an option to get the kill since it means free proyectiles and zairs lol. DACUS is hard to land at times. Especially when u got so many proyectiles and stuffz coming at you. Btw, yes sheiks u have the advantage upclose. But itll be very difficult to approach a good TL. Its not just powershield dash and ur in, since bombs are very hard to get through (cant be powershielded and its our main proyectile) and we got boomerang if u want to take to the air . We also got arrows which will confuse u even more. U gotta take a different approach to all of our proyectiles which makes it very hard to enter a good TL. AND after u enter, u gotta fear his range with zair, nair, fair, bair and heck even utitlt can give u trouble upclose. I say this is 55-45 TL.
. We also got arrows which will confuse u even more. U gotta take a different approach to all of our proyectiles which makes it very hard to enter a good TL. AND after u enter, u gotta fear his range with zair, nair, fair, bair and heck even utitlt can give u trouble upclose. I say this is 55-45 TL.
demonictoonlink
Smash Master
Honestly, 55-45 to 60-40 Tink.
If we are playing it right, yain't getting past our walls and yain't getting past our Zair>Nairs
If we are playing it right, yain't getting past our walls and yain't getting past our Zair>Nairs
iLight
Smash Lord
@chip I highly doubt anyone could take me in 'auto-pilot' mode much less in a match up i feel extremely comfortable in, unless their name is m2k/ally/lain . so no offense but i would gladly take your money anyday if you want in this match up
any of which i would feel fairly confident i could land on a toonlink that say even knew how to fight sheik other than dacus which is fairly predictable.
In response to your "projectile" wall that's like saying i'm going to make a wall that is unstoppable by a character with high ground speed that also has the capability of crawling, has a good shield dash, high priority aerials that can grab bombs and strong mix ups once at mid range... zair gives you 1 or 2 extra cross ups thats about it and is extremely difficult to hit a crawling sheik with not to mention if I think you will do it I will just powershield it, because it you have to go so low to the ground. I honestly have little to no difficulty getting kills against any character anymore, its simply a matter of whether or not I will get ledge guarded by a better player or a ******** match up. Which in this case as I stated in my previous post our recoveries are highly comparable.
I still say match up 55/45 sheik or 50/50
Sheik has as much trouble killing here as she does at any time. All it takes is one sweet spotted nair/any bad DI/high percent fair/slightly less decayed downsmash/dacus/sweet spot u-airI havent decided on a ratio yet chip. Do ppl really think that in this game speed beats range? And yeah, Sheik has a LOT of trouble killing and switching to zelda isnt an option to get the kill since it means free proyectiles and zairs lol. DACUS is hard to land at times. Especially when u got so many proyectiles and stuffz coming at you. Btw, yes sheiks u have the advantage upclose. But itll be very difficult to approach a good TL. Its not just powershield dash and ur in, since bombs are very hard to get through (cant be powershielded and its our main proyectile) and we got boomerang if u want to take to the air
any of which i would feel fairly confident i could land on a toonlink that say even knew how to fight sheik other than dacus which is fairly predictable.
In response to your "projectile" wall that's like saying i'm going to make a wall that is unstoppable by a character with high ground speed that also has the capability of crawling, has a good shield dash, high priority aerials that can grab bombs and strong mix ups once at mid range... zair gives you 1 or 2 extra cross ups thats about it and is extremely difficult to hit a crawling sheik with not to mention if I think you will do it I will just powershield it, because it you have to go so low to the ground. I honestly have little to no difficulty getting kills against any character anymore, its simply a matter of whether or not I will get ledge guarded by a better player or a ******** match up. Which in this case as I stated in my previous post our recoveries are highly comparable.
I still say match up 55/45 sheik or 50/50
Heavy Metal KiLLeR
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2009
- Messages
- 37
Don't think sheik can beat our spacing.
She hasn't a good range in her atacks, she is fast, but if she approachs, we can throw bombs while we are above her. We can also break some of her combos using DI, and c-c-c-combo break with Nair.
Can't see where sheik will get advantage...
TL 60 40 Sheik
She hasn't a good range in her atacks, she is fast, but if she approachs, we can throw bombs while we are above her. We can also break some of her combos using DI, and c-c-c-combo break with Nair.
Can't see where sheik will get advantage...
TL 60 40 Sheik
Good one.
If sheik is approaching you won't be above her.
bombs don't stop approaches.
nair doesn't break anything.
Zair is beastly, but the rest of your air game is painfully slow, just like your ground game. While admittedly it does take patients to weave through your projectiles. you still can; once we are inside there is really nothing at all to dear anymore. toon link doesn't really have any tools to get pressure off of him.
You are right this match up is far from even. But it is defenitely not in TLs favor.
Chip.
you know what to do
<3
You guys have no idea what a sheik is huh? Where is the closest competent TL to FL? I'll go wreck em for you guys.
Lobos
Smash Master
^^^ That won't prove much, beating 1 TL doesn't make or break this match up. From my personally experience playing sheiks this favors in TL.....must remember this is brawl and approaching can lead to lots of damage before reaching the target. Sheik is faster than TL but lacks KO power and is light. TL has a better recover than sheik's, his upB doesn't have the same distance and the tether recovery is easy to read/gimp. Our floatyness also allows us to get out of sheik's combos early.
In short sheik is fast and fun to play but I don't see her as a threat 60-40 TL
In short sheik is fast and fun to play but I don't see her as a threat 60-40 TL
I'm guessing you are one of those TLs with no sheik match up experience?
Toon Links projectile game isn't strong at all against sheik.his air game is horrible. his ground game is realy slow as well. no to mention we out range him in both of those situations. every jump and Tlink jumps a lot. can be punished with needles 100% of the time.
As long as the sheik isn't blindly rushing into damage this match up should always be Sheik's. there is no reason to take damage from projectiles as a sheik.
Our recovery is way better than yours. Even in that lame one dimensional example.
Toon Links projectile game isn't strong at all against sheik.his air game is horrible. his ground game is realy slow as well. no to mention we out range him in both of those situations. every jump and Tlink jumps a lot. can be punished with needles 100% of the time.
As long as the sheik isn't blindly rushing into damage this match up should always be Sheik's. there is no reason to take damage from projectiles as a sheik.
Our recovery is way better than yours. Even in that lame one dimensional example.
TLMSheikant
Smash Master
wow. Just...wow. So now sheiks think her recovery is good...when u can just hang on the ledge and its a free hit.
thats funny we can do the same thing to you.
EDIT:
below 100 we can use the explosion to force you off the edge and grab it ourselves. You let go too early we auto sweet spot, wait too long you get hit. time it just right once we re-appear you are off edge.
Above 100 we have the option of going to a plat to avoid high high knock back folow ups or auto canceling the upB so we land with no lag. there is also the option of going straigh up and fast falling back to the ledge which I think caouldn't be punished by TL rolling attack or standing on.
Again remember if you are letting go of the stage we grab it before the explosion.
In situations where you have to land on stage LTs only strong options are fair and uair neither of which will kill with good DI till pretty high percents. but that situation will pop up so little in this match up since TL doesn't have any low angle knock backs in the first place. (spare the Dsmash thing)
Sheik should also be saving her jumps which again adds so much more depth to her recover game whien combined with needles and fair.Top level MKs don't kill me from my recovery. I'm not worried about TL, you can fair/catch all of his projectiles while recovering.
EDIT:
below 100 we can use the explosion to force you off the edge and grab it ourselves. You let go too early we auto sweet spot, wait too long you get hit. time it just right once we re-appear you are off edge.
Above 100 we have the option of going to a plat to avoid high high knock back folow ups or auto canceling the upB so we land with no lag. there is also the option of going straigh up and fast falling back to the ledge which I think caouldn't be punished by TL rolling attack or standing on.
Again remember if you are letting go of the stage we grab it before the explosion.
In situations where you have to land on stage LTs only strong options are fair and uair neither of which will kill with good DI till pretty high percents. but that situation will pop up so little in this match up since TL doesn't have any low angle knock backs in the first place. (spare the Dsmash thing)
Sheik should also be saving her jumps which again adds so much more depth to her recover game whien combined with needles and fair.Top level MKs don't kill me from my recovery. I'm not worried about TL, you can fair/catch all of his projectiles while recovering.
Kaffei
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2008
- Messages
- 7,048
Elaborate. Why is his projectile game not strong? Don't just say it and leave it at that. Back up your statement. Why is his air game horrible? You don't outrange Z-Air and Z-Air has a disjointed hitbox.
Explain why your recovery is better.
This is a match up thread, not a "omg sheik >>>>>>>>>>> TL!! tl sux" thread.
You mean the tether hog thing? In that case you are probably right.<3 said:
We have DA and Ftilt for low angled KB, but those are slow as hell. Just saying. Sheik would most likely hit us before we got a chance to connect.
You can fair an arrow while a boomerang follows right behind it. You'd get hit, but such a situation isn't always realistic. Again, just saying.
Lobos
Smash Master
nah I have plenty of good sheik experience....and as far as I know FL has no good TL mains...but thats besides the point...sheikant has it right
Truth. I will. I just touched on sheik's recovery.
As far as projectiles. sheik has the best sheild dash in the game I believe. that means the time between her starting her run and her putting out her sheild is the smallest by large amounts. this will let you advance through unexpected zair's that would shut down a lot of advancing characters and continue to pressure.
She's run in genearl. she has a crazy high acceleration and reaches top speed almost instantly. she leans forward when she runs which rivals a lot of character's crouches.
fair, a five frame move with very low lag, beats out all of your projectiles and catches bombs very well.
Zair is really good but it requires taht you be in the air to use it. most TLs won't use it while rising either which again makes the move easier to predict and thus easier to react to. if TL is on the ground you don't have to look out for Zair.
Tls air game is nice in a lot of match ups. his disjointed moves and his air movement set up for a lot and makes it pretty safe to throw out a nair or a bair verus a lot of the cast. this isn't true against sheik.every aerial into the ground can be punished every time with needles.
Air to Air sheik has superior speed and in many cases range do to bair. you can throw out a move an not fear disjointed hit boxes because you move so fast as sheik. TL has issuse covering the angle below him and infront. sheik eats characters like this from below with her supeiors speed. you can always see TL's dair and fair coming and pull back if need be to avoid the hit and follow up with an attack. Bombs can't be throw at 45% angels that thats rarely a problem either.
On the ground we definitely out speed him. at low percents zair may save you from a tilt lock situation but after 30% you really have to just accept the damage and follow up.
TLs floatiness and laggy projectiles make punishing him with needles very easy and safe on any stage.
Wow. This is an argument waiting to happen but, oh well. -_-;;
I'd say more but it's 2:00 AM. *yawn* I'll post more later. Also, other TLs feel free to correct anything I said out of line. Thanks.
Not exactly. Zair gives openings, it outranges Shiek's moves and Zairs usually come out in a short-hop. Its not all that easy predicting what anyone is gonna do. This is true for both sides, okay? But in a sense you're right. Zair is a pretty predictable move for those who don't know how to mix it up so a Sheik should try to look out for it and try to punish a missed one. Also TL is usually in the air.
No, TL doesn't. Bair is fast. It covers TL's entire side. Angled Boomerang and Zair these lead to combos. And about the bombs, you said Sheik would be coming from below so I guess iBomb would work wonders in that situation.
Yes, I agree. Sheik is faster than TL on the ground. But TL's floatiness could prolly save him from Sheik's comboing. Could. Not for sure, k? Plus, we don't to just accept the damage. We can do something about it. Zair. Yeah I said it. I think Zair is the key to this match-up. Just a thought.
I'd say more but it's 2:00 AM. *yawn* I'll post more later. Also, other TLs feel free to correct anything I said out of line. Thanks.
bair doesn't hit in front of link.
Zair doesn't break combos. angle boomer is also slow and easy to read and still gets eatten by fair.
Zair doesn't break combos. angle boomer is also slow and easy to read and still gets eatten by fair.
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If toon link is facing backwards of Sheik then bair will hit infront of Sheik. Dash>Pivot>SH>Bair
Zair breaks combos it outranges Sheik's moves and autocancels if we hit the ground. And go ahead waste your fair eating all TL's projectiles so you can stale it. Im just saying that you shouldn't rely on fair to beat projectiles too much. It'd be using all its uses for close range combat. Also, I meant the return of a Boomerang, my bad! So guess you win that one cuz that won't always happen. -.-
If toon link is facing backwards of Sheik then bair will hit infront of Sheik. Dash>Pivot>SH>Bair
Zair breaks combos it outranges Sheik's moves and autocancels if we hit the ground. And go ahead waste your fair eating all TL's projectiles so you can stale it. Im just saying that you shouldn't rely on fair to beat projectiles too much. It'd be using all its uses for close range combat. Also, I meant the return of a Boomerang, my bad! So guess you win that one cuz that won't always happen. -.-
Sosuke
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Jerm/ Chip, I'm sorry if I ever said you guys should contribute to match up discussions.
Really, really sorry.
think thats the wrong link?...
Instead of discrediting me and ignoring my posts why not just prove me wrong; I couldn't say anything then. The whole point of match up discussion is to discus the overall performance of a character and ultimately decide who has the advantage. If I've made my opinion based on untruths do me a favor and correct them.
Instead of discrediting me and ignoring my posts why not just prove me wrong; I couldn't say anything then. The whole point of match up discussion is to discus the overall performance of a character and ultimately decide who has the advantage. If I've made my opinion based on untruths do me a favor and correct them.