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Weekly Matchup Discussion - Falco

DtJ Hilt

Little Lizard
Joined
Feb 28, 2008
Messages
8,531
Location
Minnow Brook
Falco

^credit to Dan for finding this piece of awesome


Ahhh falco. A lot of Olimar mains I've talked to hate this matchup, usually not because of its difficulty, but because of how annoying it can be to lose a stock just from one grab, at low percents. Not only that though, but with falco's amazing close combat that shuts olimar down at close range, and ability to actually give Olimar a difficult time at long range, can make this an extremely annoying fight.

So, who actually outcamps whom? Do we have any viable options close range? How do we deal with Falco's approach? How do we approach him? And how do we deal with the chain grab, both in avoiding it and after we've been grabbed?

So, with that said:

DISCUSS!
 

clowsui

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
10,184
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Just a note that Hilt and I are currently at 0-4 in sets in Hilt's favor (maybe 0-5) but each set has been close. I think it's because he goes to more tourneys + has a Wii + has more time than me, LOL. I've also played countless friendlies with him, and he's played more than his fair share of sets against the other, better Falco in Ohio and currently is at...2-2 in sets I think. Trust your local mod on this one =) I can also contribute to the discussion if necessary...even though nobody knows who I am XD
 

DanGR

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
6,860
If you've been grabbed, don't attempt to jump out before the 3rd regrab. You'll just lose your second jump if they grab you out of it. Then they'll get to chaingrab you longer.

If you're about to get spiked, begin to QCDI towards the stage. To do this, you wiggle the CONTROL stick towards the stage in an up-diagonal-> middle-> down-diagonal-> middle-> etc. motion. You'll teleport on stage. If you're at high enough a percent, you'll want to tech the top of the stage and roll (tech-roll) away from him. Falcos will usually jab or attempt to regrab you if they know you'll land on stage.

Get good at this! You'll feel much more comfortable taking... maybe ~40% if you tech-roll than 60%+ from followups, or a death from the spike.

Besides learning to QCDI the spike, I'm not entirely sure of anything else. :/ I'm one of the people that needs a lot of help in this matchup.
 

Weruop

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Messages
543
Location
Tri-Cities Washington
id say 40 60. ( if top olimars played top falcos, falcos would win about 60% of matches)
chain grabs give olimar a really tough time but our edgeguarding game is good, we get 2 free downt hrows at zero percent into f smash, upsmash, fair, etc
they also should almost neeever kill u with an aerial excluding a spike if ur grabbed
 

clowsui

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
10,184
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Falco vs. Olimar

CLOSE RANGE:

Falco wins. I don't even have to talk about this in great detail unless you honestly have no idea how Falco works, in which case you ask Hilt.

MID RANGE:

Olimar wins HANDS DOWN. If we're defining mid-range as slightly beyond Falco ftilt to the end of Phantasm, Olimar at max range for the Pik Toss can just do a bunch of Pikmin tosses and Falco has no way of beating it other than getting the Piks off of him and trying to laser through the stupid wall of Piks. Phantasm at close mid-range is a viable option since the first 1/3 of Phantasm is invincible but if Olimar shields it, if he walks forward towards Falco it's a reset iirc.

LONG RANGE:

Even, maybe slight Falco advantage due to temporal transcendence of lasers (i.e. they don't fizzle out due to a time limit). Falco has no real way of putting a lot of a smartly camping Olimar as Pikmin just take lasers easy and it takes like...5-7 lasers to kill Pikmins iirc.

IN THE AIR:

Both juggle each other really well.

Falco has 0 offensive options on the way down vs. Olimar and sucks, like most non-multi jump characters in this game, getting out of Olimar's superior juggling options. Just spam a lot of pivot grab, predict a landing point and try to USmash. Sometimes the Falco will get a little tricky with Phantasm...but that's why the random USmashes will work to discourage that. If you're doing it right in most cases Falco shouldn't be able to punish you that well anyways for the USmash, iirc.

At the same time remember that Olimar is insanely weak to horizontal and vertical juggle traps due to the fact that Dair trades w/ Falco's UAir (iirc, again), most color FAirs (save Yellow, Hilt tells me) will lose to BAir (also note that Fair loses in speed to Bair), and in the case of a purple Pikmin toss...IDK, I haven't been hit by too many of these for some odd reason. Whistle is a powerful option, I'll admit, but Falco's fast fall speed and the speed of his DJ are highly useful in juggling and baiting.

It's even in the air.

ON THE LEDGE:

Olimar and Falco can put some bad ledge traps on one another. Olimar can just stand beyond Phantasm invincible range and work his USmash and grab option carefully, and when the Falco starts rolling USmash, Falco ledge jump react w/ Uair or just juggle him if you can, Falco gets up normally Pik Toss/walk forward FSmash...meanwhile Falco's double laser -> Ftilt max range puts Olimar in a terrible position and since Falco has options to punish roll/getup/ledge jump/ledgehop aerials/etc. it's an even position. Neither character wants on the ledge, PERIOD!

It's overall pretty even. Falco's CG isn't really an edge as Pikmin can quickly put on the same 30-45% : ( However, Falco's throws are easy to set up b/c jab cancel + Falco's HUGE ability to bait shields using lasers, jabs, and phantasms etc. and he gets a good position off of most of them save Fthrow (Bthrow juggle, UThrow also juggle, Dthrow...complex trap)
If you consider Hilt and I as mid-level players, then I'd consider 50:50 to be a good ratio for mid-level. I haven't seen a lot of high level Falco v. Olimar play, so the ratio might be different at higher levels, really.
 

Noa.

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 2, 2008
Messages
3,758
Location
Orlando, Florida
I have two big problems in this matchup.

I have trouble avoiding the chaingrab. Others have said that it's best to just play extremely safe and campy until you hit 30%. It's important to play patiently with Falco at low percents. Dan just posted how to deal with the chaingrab when you're in it, but we should also discuss how to avoid it in the first place.

The second problem with this matchup close range. Falco just ***** us at close range. His jab, grab, and spotdodge keep him really safe, and mixups with nairs and lasers are just...x.x Falco covers us well since our options in close range are nair, whistle, shield, spotdodge, and jab. Whistle and jab get grabbed, jab gets shielded, spotdodge gets jabbed, and nair can be interrupted before it starts. What's the usefulness of dtilt against Falco? Oli's strange change in hurtbox and the high priority of dtilt might make it go through Falco's jab. Dtilt outlasts the spotdodge, and it beats Falco's grab if he doesn't start grab before us. Dtilt is bad if shielded, but the Falcos I've played don't tend to shield at close range.
 

Llumys

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
2,905
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Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
I play a Falco quite often, and I have a lot to say about this match-up.

I'll start with camping. Olimar's Pikmin stop their their tracks when they come in contact with one of Falco's lasers, and Falco's lasers completely disappear when they hit a Pikmin. When camping against Falco, I don't recommend jumping. It's best to just walk and toss Pikmin. This way, there will always be a Pikmin in front of you, and Falco will be forced to approach. There's no way Falco will out camp Olimar if they're both on opposite sides of the stage.

I'm not sure about how many regrabs Falco gets on Olimar during his chaingrab, but it's at least 3. As Dan mentioned, don't jump out of Falco's chaingrab. If he chainspikes you, just use QCDI; Dan explained how to do so. If possible, tech the stage. From that position, you have the advantage.

At low percentages, be sure to always have at least 5 Pikmin. This is because if you fail to DI Falco's chaingrab, your tether should work perfectly. Falco can immediately grab the edge after SH dairing, but you should have enough time. Also, try to avoid Falco at all costs when at low percents.

Falco's jab completely destroys Olimar. You cannot shieldgrab it, and I'm not sure about the frame data for dodging. If Falco's get at your shield, you're in a lot of trouble. You don't have time to shield grab, and I think most of your reactions can be punished with ease.

I think this match-up is even, if not slightly in Falco's favour. In order to stay safe, you have to zone tremendously and play really patiently.
 

DanGR

BRoomer
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Messages
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Dan just posted how to deal with the chaingrab when you're in it, but we should also discuss how to avoid it in the first place.
I skipped that part for a reason... >.>

<___<

edit:
Falco has 0 offensive options on the way down vs. Olimar and sucks, like most non-multi jump characters in this game, getting out of Olimar's superior juggling options.
Phantasm away. There's a good chance you're playing on a stage with at least one platform too. You've got a really safe instant get away option on Smashville, for example.

Also, if you know they'll just pivotgrab you, act like you're about to land on the stage and immediately phantasm just above Oli's grab and knock him into the air.
 

Noa.

Smash Master
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Messages
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Orlando, Florida
I skipped that part for a reason... >.>

<___<

edit:

Phantasm away. There's a good chance you're playing on a stage with at least one platform too. You've got a really safe instant get away option on Smashville, for example.
I don't know how to avoid it either. It's soooooooo important though. Not gettng 30~40% in one go would really help.

Shhhhhh! Don't tell them what they're supposed to do. :urg:
 

clowsui

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
10,184
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Chapel Hill, NC
@Dan: I edited in something regarding phantasm, you probably didn't see it b/c I have a wall of text lmao. Random USmashes wil fix that problem b/c it forces the Falco to think very carefully about the two-three options he has lol.
 

DtJ Hilt

Little Lizard
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Feb 28, 2008
Messages
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Minnow Brook
As clowsui said, I've played him and Champ (high level falco from Ohio), who I'm currently 2-2 against his Falco (and 0-1 against his ICs @_@). I haven't had the opportunity to play any top level Falcos, though. So my advice.

Phantasm was mentioned earlier. Keep in mind that it's oftentimes easy to shield (or powershield) and punish with a dash grab, as the falco is landing, if the phantasm is predicted.

And yes, ledge games are EXTREMELY important in this matchup. Falco is amazing at punishing us when we get off of the ledge, or while we're backed against it. Though, you can say the same for us, although we don't get nearly as much of an advantage, backing Falco against a ledge, but when he's getting off of it, we do.

Yellow Dair mixups work wonders in this matchup. Seriously. Fair as well, but I've really been using yellow dair a lot in most matcups, trying it out, and this is one where it really makes a difference. I'm not completely sure if it beats out Falco's uair, though I really don't think it would, but a FF'd yellow dair is hard to read and can oftentimes give you an electric shield to stop his juggles.

But normal matchup discussion isn't what I'm good at. My area of expertise is Stage Matchups.

(The rest of my post is going to be entirely about stages. If you don't care too much about this at this moment, I highly suggest you skip the rest of this post, as this is going to be long. But if you're interested in the counterpick stages used for this matchup, by all means read :D)

Ban: Japes. This is probably the only character I will ever outright ban japes against (except for maybe peach, but I'm not sure). Falco's ability on japes gives an obvious reason for its ban. I'm still not COMPLETELY convinced that he gets an auto win against us here, and I'm not completely sure that we would HAVE to ban it, but just to be on the safe side, ban the **** outta japes. If Japes isn't legal at your tournament, I don't know what else you would want to ban. I personally would ban Battlefield, and I'll get to that later.

Stages Falco Will Take you to, Thinking It's a Smart Choice

FD: Probably my second favorite neutral for the matchup. I'll actually recommend going to FD if the falco strikes smashville. Falco does NOT wreck Olimar on this stage like he does to other characters, because his lazers are not nearly as big of a problem against Olimar as they are to other characters. Thus, Falco is forced to approach, and Olimar has more room to do ****. Most of all, Falco is AMAZING at platform traps, and platforms actually make our recovering from the ledge harder on us against falco. Granted, platforms also work well in our juggling and ledge games against him, but not to the same degree. FD is a good stage for Olimar against falco, and an amazing stage for us in general. Don't be afraid to face him here.

Smashville: The best neutral to face falco on for one reason. That platform. At the very start of every one of my stocks, I camp the **** out of that platform. The way I see it, as long as I don't get grabbed, on the main stage, I still have a stock. So, if he wants to shoot me with lasers while I'm up there? That's fine. He wants to nair or bair while I'm up there? Cool. Granted, I'm not LETTING him hit me, I'm still tossing pikmin as well, and shielding the obvious nair when I see it coming, or shield his lasers if I have to. But when I DO reach 30% or whatever, even if I only took him to 15%, I still have that stock. And the fact that the platform moves, his approaches from under us are easier to avoid and shield through, as we're not stuck in the same spot afterwards. And if he decides he wants to hang out with us on the platform too, dropping through this platform, vs dropping through battlefield's is much easier, and we can usualy punish his chase with fair easier than we would on a non-moving platform. It keeps things moving. And above all else, Falco wants us to set still, right next to him. So do whatever you can to not let that happen.

Other Neutrals: Battlefield seems like a good choice for the matchup, and I'll admit, it's not a bad one, but it's really not the neutral you're going to want to go to for this. Most Olimars tend to strike both FD and SV while the Falco strikes the other two leading to BF and... battlefield is actually a pretty good stage for falco, over all. As I said earlier, the platforms benefit him more than they do us in this matchup, and small size of the stage make our ability to run away from him, limited. Other than that, it's not that bad of a stage for us in the matchup, but those are two legitimate reasons why SV would definitley be a better choice. Or FD even, to be honest. As for Lylat and Yoshi's Island, YI is an alright stage for us, the dips don't help Olimar against falco as much as they do other characters, and the small size, again, makes it harder on us, but over all the platform, being the way it is, helps our end of the matchup more than his. Lylat is a battle of who can keep the low ground. Whoever does, has an advantage for the time being. Lylat does **** up falco's recovery to a degree, but is not as bad as Fox, or wolf, or even the mother kids. Not to mention, like battlefield, the platforms are great for him, although they're okay for us as well.

Frigate Orpheon: I'm back and forth about this stage, to be honest. The first section is bad for both characters for the same reason, due to the right side, though the close area because of this is rough on us. If you're good at using the different heights of the right side, as it moves up or (more importantly) down, frigate can be an alright stage to face falco on. I'd definitely rather face him here than battlefield. It's still a bad stage for us against him though :/ The second phase, though, is great for us. Though, like lylat, it's a game of who can keep the low ground, the dip. Falco isn't the best edge guarding us off stage, so the mercy platforms work better at saving us and we can rely on them a bit better. The size of the second phase is of great benefit as well. All in all, it's a bad stage for the matchup, but not one you'd have to worry about so much that you'd need to use your ban on it.

Rainbow Cruise: I don't even need to talk about this lol. It's a really dumb choice for falco to take you here. All of his advantages disappear on this stage, as he's not able to corner you. This stage actually is in Olimar's favor in this matchup, and I don't really think it's that good for falco anyways.

Norfair: Someone fill me in on how this would work, I don't know >.>

Delfino Plaza: Without a doubt, in my opinion, the best stage for the matchup. I really don't want to go into another of my Delfino rants, but I'll try to explain. Differen't altitudes, especially slants give Olimar a huge edge in this matchup. Falco is forced to approach Olimar at awkward angles that are very punishable. Falco's lasers become much less effective, more so when Olimar, again, has the low ground.There are rarely any areas to immediately CG Spike an easy stock off of us, due to the section either being a walkoff, or there being water present. At the very start of the matchup, Olimar is most vulnerable to the chain grab, as we are at a fresh stock and it is the platform section. However, the two platforms above us will make it easy for us to avoid him until it either goes to the Eastern Beach, or the Street section, the two sections it will always go to at the start of the game (although I think it may sometimes go to the Western Beach, I'll have to check it out, although this would be the same situation, though not as helpful for us). The size of most of the areas of Delfino give us plent of room and the main platform ****s up his recovery, obviousy. The pillar section makes running from having to face him close range easier, since we have an easy accessible ledge, and don't have to go towards him when getting off of it, due to another ledge and a pillar behind us, most of the time, unless we're conered against the outermost ledges @_@. Purple pikmin work great against falco, when having to deal with him at close-mid range, and, as I've said alot, Delfino has three sections that give an increase to purples, one of which being the main platform that you spend roughly half of the time on. I've ranted enough about Delfino though @_@. I'll be making a longer post about the stage and why it's it's easily one of our best soon, in another thread. There's just too much in the stage for me to try to explain lol.

Oh yeah, halberd's good for the matchup as well, so is pictochat (for reasons similar to FD and Delfino). Sorry for the long post about stages in the middle of the regular matchup discussion >.>

TL;DR
Counterpicks: Delfino, Halberd, Pictochat, smashville
Maybe Counterpick?: YI, Lylat Cruise, Rainbow Cruise?
Other Stages that Aren't That Bad: FD, Frigate, Pokemon Stadium.
Don't go Here: Battlefield
Ban that ****: Japes
 

Denti

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
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Brawl Monsters Club House
good stuff hilt! the stage part helped me the most! i can safely say there are just a few characters where the stage matters the most and falco is one of them. i agree delfino all the way. and about norfair i dont know if i could see myself taking a falco there because it would turn into one giant camp fest as lava and **** covers the screen. Falco's phantasm would wreck us there is spaced perfect IMO, so i wouldn't take a falco there also because of easy CG Dair combos that can still happen even tho the platforms are like 4 feet long hahaha but yes ban japes, been taken there by a falco and regret it, japes is my nightmare course for this match up!


so far some useful stuf i've read! QCDI is somthing i've needed to know in this match up! now i know a combo down throw down throw F smash, so that helps. i also enjoy down tilt very much in this MU, down tilt folowed by up smash or Fair, not extreamly creative but effective i suppose. F smash beats phantasm head on always, even white pikmin stop it, vey useful for puting falco's in a tight situation about recovery and ledge game. yellow pikmin don't die from the lazers or have any knockback from them, so you'll probably get stacked with yellow pikmin more because they will survive through lazers, this is good because i like hitbox and priority with yellow pikmin :) yellow pikmin up smash beats falco Dair, none of the other pikmin do, so use the yellows to your ADV. from what i can gather yellow pikmin are the bomb in this match up :chuckle:


this is the 2nd match up i know the least, so i can't give much more info than that.


could we get some videos of olimar ****** on this match up? it would be much apreciated! it's hard to see all of this come together sometimes with just talk :)
 

Tin Man

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Messages
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Belconnen, ACT, Australia
Falco does win close range cause of chain grab, jab combo, and good aerials, what we can do it try to hit falco out of the air with our aerials, like fai and nair.

At medium range yes Olimar wins, he is within our grab range and he is pretty easy to combo from our grabs.

At Long range eventually Falco will out camp you, I'm sure that this will force Olimar into medium range combat.

Falco can jab Olimar from the edge so basically don't stay there a lot.

Repeatedly Dtilting Falco is BS, it doesn't work like "it should". It can be escaped, don't rely on it.

When grabbed, at least DI up to try and escape it before the re grab (I'm not entirely sure on how this works, whenever I use oli vs falco I always get regrabbed when I DI up then jump from 0 %, when I use falco vs oli, the oli always escapes above me regrab, wtf man >.<)

Yallow U smash, Fairs (kinda hard to use purples cause of the short distance), Utilt, and Nair all go through the phantasm, great edge guarding tools.

Falco is also pretty light so Killing with throws is more reliable.
 

Greward

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
1,429
Location
Barcelona, EU
close range we get *****, jab to grab or everything.
falco can outcamps us but its pretty difficult for him, as it is for us.
falco has a horrible time killing us.
His CG will deal more damage to us that what we will give to him with dthrow combos, just for the Dthrows + dair + jab + grab + something, even killing us at low percent.
When approaching, falco will usually go for an aerial approach, if we try to pivot grab he can land lasering and follow with a dash attack for example, and if we try to shieldgrab he will do a nair/dair to jab and well probably fail the shieldgrab because of his incredibly fast jab. He can jab to grab if we continue shielding.
If he gets us on the air he will give us a lot of damage because his amazing Bair, plus he jumps really high and FF too fast for getting an opportunity to get out of his bairs, so well probably finish whistling 2-3 bairs.

When falco Dthrow u at mid percentages, the best option is to DI away and fair if hes coming to us with dacus or dash attack, but dont be predictable because falco can punish us if he predict it easily.

Killing him is easy, and he has a horrible time getting the kill. we have good combos on him, his cg deals more damage but its more difficult for falco to land a grab than to us (its still not that difficult for him), hes gimpable (not as much as us but we can gimp him lol) and the camping game is about even or in his advantage (shine still exists, and if hes good he will see to our line and see when he should go laser and when he should shine) and he has an easily time approaching than olimar.
Dont underestimate falco at mid range, his ftilt is insanely good and some falcos will ftilt ur shield, jump backwards and laser if u try to shieldgrab, maybe follow the laser with a dash attack / dacus.

i like ftilt or nair to stop the phantasm because of the disjointed hitboxes.

6-4 falco at the very least.

about cp, i like lylat cruise and halberd. yoshis is ok too.
 

Noa.

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 2, 2008
Messages
3,758
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Orlando, Florida
I think that we all seem to say that the camping is more or less even, with one side just having a smidgen of an advantage.

It's important to camp correctly. Don't shorthop when tossing. Stay just outside of reflector range. If a pikmin gets onto you, whistle it off unless Falco already has two or more pikmin on him. It's good to keep a steady stream of tosses to not let go of the pressure. Stay outside of the range of the invincible phantasm, and if you see Falco start to phantasm, hold shield and just punish afterward.
 

Hai Im Fearless

Smash Lord
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Mar 4, 2008
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1,298
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Orlando, FL
nair > falco side-b

I've always been able to whistle out of the CG - zerodeath

it worked against hrnut's falco and keitaro's falco so unless there's something they were missing it seems pretty reliable... whistling the dair that is
 

BOB SAGET!

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 26, 2009
Messages
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CANADA
his relector is annoying as hell we gotta firce him to do a move that has enough lag to get him with a grab or smash. We should stay mid range and try to juggle.
 

clowsui

Smash Legend
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Feb 14, 2007
Messages
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Chapel Hill, NC
down b is unsafe
be intelligent about pik throw and it's not even a problem for olimar. reasoning for not using reflector is pretty similar to not using marth counter - risk/reward is not very even
 

toobusytocare

Smash Lord
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Feb 17, 2009
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Seattle, Washington
nair > falco side-b

I've always been able to whistle out of the CG - zerodeath

it worked against hrnut's falco and keitaro's falco so unless there's something they were missing it seems pretty reliable... whistling the dair that is
you can just up b to recover from the spike

its too fast for falco to do anything about...
 

Noa.

Smash Master
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Orlando, Florida
Wer, what do you do in close range with Falco? Rich always says you have a very good close range game, so what do you do when Falco gets in?
 

Greward

Smash Lord
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Wer, what do you do in close range with Falco? Rich always says you have a very good close range game, so what do you do when Falco gets in?
go away ;D
olimar cant deal with falco on close range. his jab just beat all ur options.
im not weruop though
i dunno if u can whistle the dair, i think if they time correctly u cant. not sure though, maybe % dependant.

falco's shine should be used when oli throw a purple pikmin, maybe with whites/yellow. not against all the pikmins.

if u edgecancel the spike after the cg, i think falco can FF and hit u before u get to the edge.
 

BOB SAGET!

Smash Lord
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Mar 26, 2009
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CANADA
On some stages such as delfino where your seperated u can reflect away without getting ****ed by the after lag.
 

Weruop

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Messages
543
Location
Tri-Cities Washington
there are 2 very different types of close range with falco. when ur about 40%+, and when ur about 40%-.
at below 40percent, u wanna get away from them. if ur kinda spaced well and can react b4 they grab u, running away and pivot grabbing works, especially if they try and roll behind u so that they can grab u.
u just have to be VERY VERY VERY unpredictable but efficient at low percent. also, if they want to use reflector on your pikmin and ur below 40 percent... u know how it goes

after ur out of grab to spike percent, the matchup is quite easy. when theyre near u at 40+ percent u dont have to worry as much about grabbing so dnot play as evasively and just kind of treat the matchup more like u would others.

at higher percentages we can outcamp them i think if we get very far away and full hop. if they kind of start creeping on you, then id start short hopping the throws. sort of slowly, barely approaching as theyre lasering can get them to side b. so u can approach a little and then run back and pivot grab the phantasm, predict it with a shield into f smash behind urself, etc.

whistling and air dodging both start invincibility on frame 2 but i know that in hit stun the first thing that u can do is air dodge, but i dont think this applies to throws..
the best thing to do though is to DI the spikeand then tech it if possible, of course.
edgeguarding is very easy
if ur running up towards the edge kinda like ur gunna edgehog them, falcos will almost always sideb onto the stage. eeeeeasy baiting.
also, double d throw into f smash is a fun mixup thats possible in this matchup. the occasional 'throw them off of the edge and use ur superior range to edgeguard their fast falling and crappy recovering' is effective as well.
 

Dabuz

Fraud at Smash
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Being the most hated
i would just like to note olimar can use up-b with all 6 pikmin in line to stop falco's spike or chain grab spike 100% of the time


uptilt>his dair

uptilt>falco at close up

don't jump once your out of chain grab damage range

dtilt goes under reflector

nair->smash is useless if they DI down and shield

whistle>everything he has in the air

he kills around 125%, we kill around 110%

throwing pikmin on him at start of Up-B extends the startup time

don't pick halberd or YI, im serious

BF is our best CP IMHO, with delflino coming as two, lylat as a solid third

jab>our standing grab+pivot grab

dtilt>jab

dtilt<fsmash

boost pivot grab (learn this technique!~!~!~!~!~!~!) > JAB, FSMASH, DSMASH, FTILT, MAYBE PHANTASM?
 

Llumys

Smash Champion
Joined
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Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
Cancel your dash attack with a pivot grab. It lets you pivot grab from your standing position. Without it, you need to run a little before being able to slide as you grab.
 

Tin Man

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Messages
6,874
Location
Belconnen, ACT, Australia
you can just up b to recover from the spike

its too fast for falco to do anything about...
U need to have enough pikmin in your chain, If u don't think u have enough, whistle, if u do, then upB, cause if u dont' and u upB, then u die =[

Not so far. There still hasn't been advice on what to do in close range though.

>.>
Don't go there
 

DanGR

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
6,860
Cancel your dash attack with a pivot grab. It lets you pivot grab from your standing position. Without it, you need to run a little before being able to slide as you grab.
Let's break this down...

To pivotgrab,
1. Dash.
2. Grab.
3. Press back on the control stick.

To boost pivotgrab,
1. Dash.
2. Dash attack.
3. Grab.
4. Press back on the control stick.

You're adding an extra input. Regular pivotgrabbing is quicker.
 

Noa.

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 2, 2008
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Location
Orlando, Florida
Pivot grabbing has more range than normal grabs right? I've never been exactly sure, but it does seem like that.
 

DanGR

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
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The grab begins when you... do exactly that. Grab. From the time you grab and when you stop sliding- that's the extra range you get on it. So, yes.
 

BOB SAGET!

Smash Lord
Joined
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You get some extra range. Its better than pivot grabbing in soe situations. Fox's reversed boosted pivot grab is insane.
 

Denti

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
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Brawl Monsters Club House
i feel more comfortable about this match up now after reading people's stuff, and i will Uptilt more at close range, i feel that as reliable and unexpected because the falco is just waiting for you to go close range so you can uptilt and punish him for getting too greedy and impatient.

i would like to make a list of everything i feel important in how I'm going to approach this match up and should remember. anyone jump in and tell me if I'm forgetting something! :)

LIST INFORMATION FACLO vs. OLIMAR

Olimar generally kills falco at 110%


Falco generally kills olimar at 125%

Olimar gets out camped at long range

Olimar is best at mid range, just don't short hop or jump

Olimar loses at close range, Uptilt is effective for olimar in a close range situation

F smash beats phantasm

Yellow pikmin don't get hurt by lasers

whistle when in the air, falco will crush you if not

ducking and down tilt are effective for laser avoidance.

down throw combos are better than normal in the match up for olimar because falco is heavy

yellow pikmin up smash beats falco Dair, no other pikmin does, use this well because when spaced like this they are probably going for DAIR Jab then Grab

CG happens from 0-35%ish and CG ***** olimar, best not to fight him so much with risky moves until you reach this percentage

STAGES: CP Delfino or smashvile, mabye rainbow cruise or lylat. best Neutrals are smashvile, YI, or FD. Ban JAPES :)

this one is my personal opinion and strategy, but when falco is recovering don't go for the gimp as much as going for more damage and re hitting back off with F smash and grabs, but go for the gimp if they use up B because that SUCKS



i feel like i could be missing something?
 

BOB SAGET!

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
1,125
Location
CANADA
In a close range situation jab combo seems to work really well after a spotdodge. It always seems to work. Falcos seem to like to jab u a bit then reach for a grab. Spotdodge at close range in my opinion then counter with grab, utilt, or jab combo.
 

Noa.

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 2, 2008
Messages
3,758
Location
Orlando, Florida
Saget, that's the most beautiful post I've seen from you ever. Good job on the grammar and punctuation.

Still, I find spotdodging to be very risky against opponents, especially Falco. Spotdodges are easy to read and you can get grabbed.
 
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