Lucario's attack power (From a Japan blogger calc)

iRJi · Oct 23, 2009

I would like to state before hand that this is not my information. My Double's team member called me with this information that he found from a Japan player.

Here is his information.
__________________________________________________________________________
As everybody knows, lucario's attack power changes by % and stock count.
everything below is all the data for it.

// basic concept

lucario's strength changes by percentage, difference between the score (time battle) or stock (stock battle) count.
the more damage dealt to you and the less score/stock you have, the more power you get.

// base power

lucario's power is at standard position when its at 75% and the same score/stock as the opponent.
at this time, all move excluding the aura sphere (neutral special) is an integer.
this blog will call this "base power" from now.

// strength change from damage

the relation between "percentage X" and strength "P(X)" will look like the following.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

percentage X strength P(X)
0≦X≦20 P(X)＝P(75)x0.7
20≦X≦75 P(X)＝P(75)x[1＋(X−75)x0.3/55]
75≦X≦170 P(X)＝P(75)x[1＋(X−75)x0.4/95]
170＜X P(X)＝P(75)x1.4

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

example:
*P(75)＝10　 percentage X＝64％
damage for P(64) will be...

　 P(X)＝P(64)＝P(75)x[1＋(X−75)x0.3/55]
　　　　　　　　　　＝10x[1＋(64−75)x0.3/55]
　　　　　　　　　　＝10x[1＋(-11)x0.3/55]
　　　　　　　　　　＝10x(1−0.3/5)
　　　　　　　　　　＝10x0.94＝9.4

*P(75)＝10 percentage X＝94％
damage for P(94) will be...

　 P(X)＝P(94)＝P(75)x[1＋(X−75)x0.4/95]
　　　　　　　　　　＝10x[1＋(94−75)x0.4/95]
　　　　　　　　　　＝10x[1＋19x0.4/95]
　　　　　　　　　　＝10x(1＋0.4/5)
　　　　　　　　　　＝10x1.08＝10.8

// strength change from score/stock (for 2 players)

if (your score/stock) - (opponent's score/stock) = N
the strength will change like this

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

N (stock) N (time) strength change
-2 or less -5 or less x8/6
-1 -4 ~ -1 x8/7
±0 ±0 x8/8
+1 +1 ~ +4 x8/9
+2 or more +5 or more x8/10

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

strength change takes about 8 seconds to completely finish after the value for N changes

// strength change from score/stock (for 3 players)

find the difference between you and the other 2 players, and let the value be N1 and N2. (N1≦N2)
with the value of N1 and N2, the strength will change like the following.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

-if N1≦N2≦0 : strength will change only by the value of N1

N1 (stock) N1 (time) strength change
-2 or less -5 or less x8/5
-1 -4 ~ -1 x8/6.5
±0 ±0 x8/8 (=x1)

-if 0≦N1≦N2 : strength will change only by the value of N2

N3 (stock) N3 (time) strength change
±0 ±0 x8/8 (=x1)
+1 +1 ~ +4 x8/9.5
+2 or more +5 or more x8/11

-if N1<0<N2 : strength will change by both the value of N1 and N2

strength change = *8/k
k = ( -5N1 + 11N2 ) / ( -N1 + N2 )

#calculation is the same for both time and stock

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

// strength change from score/stock (for 4 players)

find the difference between you and all other players, and let each value be N1, N2, N3. (N1≦N2≦N3)
with the value of N1, N2, and N3, the strength will change like the following.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

-if N1≦N2≦N3≦0 : strength will change only by the value of N1

N1 (stock) N1 (time) strength change
-2 or less -5 or less x8/4 (=x2)
-1 -4 ~ -1 x8/6
±0 ±0 x8/8 (=x1)

-if 0≦N1≦N2≦N3 : strength will change only by the value of N3

N3 (stock) N3 (time) strength change
±0 ±0 x8/8 (=x1)
+1 +1 ~ +4 x8/10
+2 or more +5 or more x8/12

-if N1<0<N3 : strength will change only by the value of N1 and N3 (N2 does not affect)

strength change = *8/k
k = ( -4N1 + 12N3 ) / ( -N1 + N3 )

#calculation is the same for both time and stock

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

// calculations when somebody is out of the battle

when somebody loses all their stocks during a match, the number of players
playing will change, but the calculation does not change.
if it was a 4 player battle and somebody loses all their stock,
that player's stock is counted as 0.

this means that if somebody drops out during a match, lucario will
always have a factor that will decrease his strength until the end of the match.

// strength change calculation for team battle

for team, it is still the same calculation as a 4 player battle.
it checks if you have more score/stock than every other player including your teammate.
this means you can have your team be in the lead and still have lucario's power stronger.
but at the same time, if your teammate is in a worse position than where you are,
lucario's power might become weak and also be in a bad position as a team.

example:
*1P(red lucario) 2P(red) 3P(blue) 4P(blue) has 3, 6, 2, 2 stocks left.

red team : 3+6=9 stocks (in advantage)
blue team : 2+2=4 stocks

N1 = 3-6 = -3
N2 = 3-2 = 1
N3 = 3-2 = 1

N1 < 0 < N3, so...
strength change = 8/k

　　k＝[−4x(−3)＋12x1]/[−(−3)＋1]
　　　＝(12＋12)/4
　　　＝24/4＝6

thus, attack power is multiplied by 8/6 (increasing)

*1P(red lucario) 2P(red) 3P(blue) 4P(blue) has 4, 1, 5, 5 stocks left.

red team : 4+1= 5 stocks (in disadvantage)
blue team : 5+5=10 stocks

N1 = 4-5 = -1
N2 = 4-5 = -1
N3 = 4-1 = 3

N1 < 0 < N3, so...
strength change = 8/k

　　k＝[−4x(−1)＋12x3]/[−(−1)＋3]
　　　＝(4＋36)/4
　　　＝40/4＝10

thus, attack power is multiplied by 8/10 (decreasing)

// limit value

lucario has a limit for the max and the minimum value.

max = base power x 1.8
min = base power x 0.6

for example, for 2 player stock battle, if you are 2 stocks behind with 180%,
your power should be about 1.87 times(=1.4x8/6) your base power,
but this limit will restrict you to 1.8.

// exceptions

the following attacks do not change by stock, score, and percentage.
all attacks involving items are not affected as well.

-dash attack
-back throw
-down throw

#HBC | Red Ryu · Oct 23, 2009

Of course Lucario had to have math like this to screw with peoples minds.

This is good for making a chart in the future for the aura boost for every possible outcome.

Browny · Oct 23, 2009

What a horribly presented set of data, its unreadable in the current state.

Kitamerby · Oct 23, 2009

You didn't find this yourself? What kind of good player hasn't browsed Michael Hey's blogs?

Jeez. This is Michael Hey's data. Regardless of its presentation, it's reliable and extremely likely to be 100% correct. This dude knows his stuff.

Original Blog.

tedward2000 · Oct 23, 2009

Ya know, all of this information was like discovered like ages ago, but it was thrown away because it was on All is Brawl.

Just a little story.
-t2

hough123 · Oct 23, 2009

This seems correct, but is wrong.

As someone who has studied Lucario's aura boost, I take pride in saying that it is confusing. The boost seems to have different formulea for each different attack. Try this formula with aura sphere, and it'll come out wrong. THe boost might have been made different fo all attacks, as to even out the damage rates. (ie: Tilts should have different rates than smashes because they do different things.)

I'm starting to get a hunch, though. I'll do some research and post in the brainstorm thread.

Anyway, in short, this is correct on average, so I'll give it my approval for it's complicity.

Ignore this post please, I am a believer of this code now. Expect a summary today.

phi1ny3 · Oct 23, 2009

That being said, they should've given a better one for dtilt, because the damage output for that move sucks period <_<;

hough123 · Oct 25, 2009

Basic concept of the equation:
This equation if based off of the concept that Lucario, at 75% damage, is at his base power. This is entirely proven with data, as Lucario's boost slows down after 75% in all attacks, except for charged smashes. The next concept is that Lucario's strength is a function of his percent. That is agreed upon by all who have attempted to find a way to express his boost.

The codes:

Code:

0≦X≦20   |P(X)＝P(75)*0.7
20≦X≦75  |P(X)＝P(75)*[1＋(X−75)*0.3/55]
75≦X≦170 |P(X)＝P(75)*[1＋(X−75)*0.4/95]
170＜X    |P(X)＝P(75)*1.4

P(75)= Base damage. (Damage at 75 percent.)
P(x)= Damage dealt.
X= Percent

A quick example of solving the equation with what was done in bold:

Code:

Base damage= 6 (Uptilt) | Percent= 130
P(x)＝P(75)*[1＋(X−75)*0.4/95]
P(x)=[B]6[/B][1+([B]130[/B]-75)*0.4/95]
P(x)=6[1+[B]55[/B]*0.4/95]
P(x)=6[1+[B]22[/B]/95]
P(x)=6[1+ [B]0.23[/B]]
P(x)=6[[B]1.23[/B]]
P(x)=[B]7.38[/B]

Stock Boosts.
**Stock boosts take eight seconds to register**
For n, anything greater than 2, or less then -2, is the same as the the nearest value.
(ie: -5 would use -2's values.)

Code:

In a 1 v. 1:

Your score or stock - Opponent's score or stock = n
When n=
-2| Multiply damage dealt by 8/6.
-1| Multiply damage dealt by 8/7.
±0| Multiply damage dealt by 8/8.
+1| Multiply damage dealt by 8/9.
+2| Multiply damage dealt by 8/10.

Code:

In a 1 v. 1 v. 1:
Your score or stock - Opponent 1's score or stock = N1
Your score or stock - Opponent 2's score or stock = N2
(N1≦N2)

If N1≦N2≦0, the strength changes by the value of  N1.

When N1=
-2| Multiply damage dealt by 8/5.
-1| Multiply damage dealt by 8/6.5.
±0| Multiply damage dealt by 8/8.



If 0≦N1≦N2, the strength changes by the value of N2.

±0| Multiply damage dealt by 8/8.
+1| Multiply damage dealt by 8/9.5.
+2| Multiply damage dealt by  8/11.



If N1<0<N2, strength changes by the values of both N1, and N2.

Strength change= 8/k
k=(-5*N1+11*N2)/(-N1+N2)

Code:

In a 1 v. 1 v. 1 v. 1:
Your score or stock - Opponent 1's score or stock = N1
Your score or stock - Opponent 2's score or stock = N2
Your score or stock - Opponent 3's score or stock = N3
(N1≦N2≦N3)

If N1≦N2≦N3≦0, strength changes only by the value of N1.

-2| Multiply damage dealt by 8/4.
-1| Multiply damage dealt by8/6.
±0| Multiply damage dealt by 8/8.



If 0≦N1≦N2≦N3, the strength changes only by the value of N3.

±0| Multiply damage dealt by 8/8.
+1| Multiply damage dealt by 8/10.
+2| Multiply damage dealt by 8/12.



If N1<0<N3, the strength changes only by the values of N1 and N3. (N2 does not affect it.)

Strength change= 8/k
k= (-4*N1+12*N3)/(-N1+N3)

Other:
Calculations when an opponent is out of the battle:

When somebody loses of all their stocks during a match, the number of players
playing will change, but the calculation does not change. If it was a 4 player battle, and somebody loses all their stock,
that player's stock is counted as 0.

This means that if somebody drops out during a match, Lucario will
always have a factor that will decrease his strength until the end of the match.

Calculations in a team battle:

For team battles, it is the same calculation as a 4 player battle.
It checks if you have more score/stock than every other player, including your teammate.
This means that you can have your team be in the lead, and still have Lucario's power stronger. At the same time, if your teammate is in a worse position than where you are,
Lucario's power might become weak, putting you in a bad position as a team.

Limit values:

Lucario has a limit for the max and the minimum value.

Maximum= Base power x 1.8.
Minimum= Base power x 0.6.

For example, in a 2 player stock battle, if you are 2 stocks behind with 180%,
your power should be about 1.87 times, (1.4x8/6), your base power.
This limit will restrict you to 1.8.

Exceptions:

The following attacks do not change by stock, score, or percentage:

-Dash attack.
-Back throw.
-Down throw.

(All attacks involving items are not affected as well.)

All credit goes to Micheal Hey.
All I did was reword, and format the post.

hichez50 · Oct 28, 2009

This info was found well before now on an AIb blog.
http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=14256

phi1ny3 · Oct 28, 2009

^That's Michael Hey (check the profile name)

hough123 · Oct 28, 2009

tedward2000 said:
Ya know, all of this information was like discovered like ages ago, but it was thrown away because it was on All is Brawl.

Just a little story.
-t2

hichez50 said:
This info was found well before now on an AIb blog.
http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=14256

I know.

Plus, baaaaaaaw. I thought that someone else was going to discuss this with me =[

Rayku · Nov 8, 2009

I just use common sense and say the max aura boost is at 183% (There was an event match where Sakurai set you at "max aura," which put you at 183) and say each aura boost is 50%, 100%, 150%, 183.

Then I consider 1 stock = 1 boost, or maybe 1.5 boosts or something.

Too much stupid math for something really insignificant.

Alus · Nov 8, 2009

^^^

I do the same.

I don't really understand the value of knowing each and every unit of aura boost.

iRJi · Nov 8, 2009

This isn't for memorizing. This is just to know what it is. Everything found doesn't need to be applied to the game as if you needed it to win, but as a character board the duty is to try to find out all the aspects of the character. This, is what the post is representing.

hough123 · Nov 8, 2009

Lord Rayku said:
I just use common sense and say the max aura boost is at 183% (There was an event match where Sakurai set you at "max aura," which put you at 183) and say each aura boost is 50%, 100%, 150%, 183.

Then I consider 1 stock = 1 boost, or maybe 1.5 boosts or something.

Too much stupid math for something really insignificant.

It. Is. Not. 183.
It says, "SUPAH HIGH DAMAGE!1!!1oneityelevenz!!!11," not, and I repeat NOT max aura. Lucario's max aura is 170, this has been proven by EVRY BIT OF RESEARCH EVER. It makes me incredibly angry to hear people assume a max without testing it. No offence to you, but this flipped my

chillz.

Rayku · Nov 9, 2009

hough123 said:
It. Is. Not. 183.
It says, "SUPAH HIGH DAMAGE!1!!1oneityelevenz!!!11," not, and I repeat NOT max aura. Lucario's max aura is 170, this has been proven by EVRY BIT OF RESEARCH EVER. It makes me incredibly angry to hear people assume a max without testing it. No offence to you, but this flipped my

chillz.

Sakurai says it's 183, so I'm going to assume it's 183.

I also don't see any point in setting the damage to 183 in the event mode if that's not going to be the beginning of maximum aura. No other event has ever put a character at such an odd percent. I'm just going off logic.

None of the equations I've ever seen have made any sense to me because I don't want to sit in class and decipher it, so I would just suggest let me live in "ignorant bliss"

Browny · Nov 10, 2009

Hmm im not so sure about what the cap is, even though ive tested it myself, I do believe there is a sure-fire way to test this... get lucario to 170, grab pummel at least 50 times. do it again at 182. if theres no difference, then yep 170 it is lol

hough123 · Nov 10, 2009

Lord Rayku said:
Sakurai says it's 183, so I'm going to assume it's 183.

I also don't see any point in setting the damage to 183 in the event mode if that's not going to be the beginning of maximum aura. No other event has ever put a character at such an odd percent. I'm just going off logic.

None of the equations I've ever seen have made any sense to me because I don't want to sit in class and decipher it, so I would just suggest let me live in "ignorant bliss"

what is this i dont even

Fine, live in total ignorance instead of trusting an entire character board, or otherwise testing it yourself. >.<

Aurasmash14 · Nov 10, 2009

hough123 said:
what is this i dont even

Fine, live in total ignorance instead of trusting an entire character board, or otherwise testing it yourself. >.<

1. Do. No. Talk. As. If. He. Needs. Whipping.

2. and people wonder why others are leaving >_> even if he is wrong you can say it better than that. everybody deserves respect.

tedward2000 · Nov 10, 2009

. . .

Or perhaps guys, some moves max out at 170, and others in between 170 and 183%. Thus saying 183% is max max, and 170 is min max.
Because this has also been proven to be true. So in the long hall you all can be right, but whining and flipping out works to I guess.
-t2

phi1ny3 · Nov 10, 2009

Yeah, iirc different moves have different caps from the last study we worked on, let me see if I can find it.
Also, people gotta chill here, be nice guys D:

hough123 · Nov 10, 2009

I'd like to apologize, ever since we did debates in class, I've been finishing arguements as opposed to giving them up.

I'm normally very chill, but when someone comes in and disregards all of our studies, and refuses to rectify themselves while they put up a burlesque performence in an attempt to offer succor, I get angry.

Yes, my english teacher teaches wierd vocab. I also use large words when I get angry in an attempt to win out of connfusion.

Rayku · Nov 10, 2009

hough123 said:
I'm normally very chill, but when someone comes in and disregards all of our studies, and refuses to rectify themselves while they put up a burlesque performence in an attempt to offer succor, I get angry.

Stop trying to confuse me with your big words that probably don't exist lol

Does it HONESTLY matter at that percent? Your aura is going to be so huge at 170 or 183 that you can basically disregard staling anything. Something's going to kill. And your opponent is going to live in fear of you.

hough123 · Nov 10, 2009

Lord Rayku said:
Stop trying to confuse me with your big words that probably don't exist lol

Does it HONESTLY matter at that percent? Your aura is going to be so huge at 170 or 183 that you can basically disregard staling anything. Something's going to kill. And your opponent is going to live in fear of you.

All true, but you see, I have a curse.

I want to know things in terms of mathematics and science. An estimate means nothing to me in terms of a math problem such as the aura boost.

Regardless of that, let's start anew. To every (wo)man his own =)

RT · Nov 10, 2009

Reading all this gives me a headache...all I need to know is that Lucario gets stronger. I won't even be thinking about this stuff when playing an actual match. <_<

Alus · Nov 10, 2009

**** this thread.

I'm just going to single post link the OP (just in case) and be on my way.

hough123 · Nov 10, 2009

MooseAlus said:
**** this thread.

I'm just going to single post link the OP (just in case) and be on my way.

NO! Use my explained version.

Rayku · Nov 10, 2009

Rockettrainer said:
Reading all this gives me a headache...all I need to know is that Lucario gets stronger. I won't even be thinking about this stuff when playing an actual match. <_<

You and I are becoming better friends every time I see you post.

phi1ny3 · Nov 11, 2009

I kinda just gauge on estimate, so to a weak extent, seeing the numbers helps, but it doesn't outright affect my decisions on a percent-by-percent basis.

Aurasmash14 · Nov 11, 2009

I seriously didnt understand any of this.. Math makes me hurl.

all i know is, if the aura sphere is big, expect to deal hurt lol.

Lucario's attack power (From a Japan blogger calc)

Smash Champion

Red Fox Warrior

Smash Hater

Smash Hero

Smash Champion

Smash Ace

Not the Mama

Smash Ace

Smash Lord

Not the Mama

Smash Ace

Smash Lord

Smash Champion

Smash Champion

Smash Ace

Smash Lord

Smash Hater

Smash Ace

Smash Lord

Smash Champion

Not the Mama

Smash Ace

Smash Lord

Smash Ace

Smash Hero

Smash Champion

Smash Ace

Smash Lord

Not the Mama

Smash Lord

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