Official Olimar Stage Discussion

DtJ Hilt · Oct 30, 2009

Olimar Stage Discussion

Directory

Stage Discussion is probably one of the biggest and most debatable aspects in Olimar's game is how he performs on which stages. Every Olimar main has different likes and dislikes, but what are actually good for Olimar and what's bias? What stages would we ban against certain characters and what stages would we CP them to? Maybe a stage that's normally bad for us, we would counterpick against certain characters. This is an extremely important part of Olimar's metagame, and for awhile, discussion of stages has been stagnant.

So I plan to try to revive it.

I'm not entirely sure what order I'm going to go by for this. I'll probably take care of the four main neutrals first, and then hit the other stages in a shift between Olimar's bad, good, and average stages.

During this I'm not only going to list what the pros and cons about each stage are, but also who you should cp, ban, or strike the stages against. However, for this character list I'm only going to go through the first twenty characters on the tier list, all the way down to luigi. Reason being, I'm not going to list ganon on every stage just because Olimar ***** him everywhere. However, in cases where there's an important counterpick against a character that we don't utterly destroy, such as counterpicking Wolf to lylat, for instance, I will include these. But any character ranked 21 and worse will not be as common in the lists in this thread. I feel that the first fourteen characters (all the way down through lucario) are the ones you'll be seeing in tournaments the most, while Toon Link and DK are still common, so I decided to include all of B tier. However, Luigi and Peach are two of Olimar's bad matchups, so I felt it necessary to include them as well. If there's a specific character you feel should be on the list, let me know.

DtJ Hilt · Oct 30, 2009

reserved for stuff

yoshq · Oct 30, 2009

i think it's a good cp against luigi, because you can camp him there, and with his air speed he can't get to you.

BOB SAGET! · Oct 30, 2009

If im completely wrong and sound ******** tell me.

PROS: IMO this is a good stage to camp on. Good stage pick against chars who have no projectile u make it hard for them to approach. It's good because it's easy to stay mid range while still maintaining presure on the opponent. Easy to space with olimas long ranged attacks.

CONS: Chars with long ranged projectiles such as falco have an easier time in a camping war with all the space. Because of this depending on the char it can be hard to stay mid range. Its harder to juggle because of the large space, no platforms so u cant uair through to juggle and pressure.

DtJ Hilt · Oct 30, 2009

The thing is that Falco's lasers don't outcamp us. If they did, it would be a much bigger problem on this stage. However, I actually don't mind this stage against Falco, regardless of it being one of his best. In that matchup, platforms help him just as much or more than they do us. Battlefield is worse for us against falco than FD, imo

Edit: Also yes, FD is great against Luigi. Actually FD isn't that great of a stage for luigi in general and the ability to have more room to run the hell away from him (which is what you HAVE to do against luigi) makes things a bit easier. Also, being on a platform against Luigi is ****in terrible, whether he's on there too or not >.>

Llumys · Oct 30, 2009

Final Destination is obviously great for camping. Most importantly, it makes our worst match-ups slightly more bearable. They love platforms, and the lack of the latter is a great tool. Our best match-ups also become even easier.

I'm curious about what you guys think about certain even match-ups. I love playing Falco on Final Destination 'cause he definitely doesn't out-camp us. There's a lot more breathing room. I want to know what you guys think of Diddy Kong, Snake and Wario here.

I don't strike or ban this stage.

DtJ Hilt · Oct 30, 2009

Diddy kong is the only character I'll ban this stage against. However, fox does really well here as well against us, and so does sonic, tbh, but it's not that bad against him. But I always ban this stage against Diddy. I don't mind fighting Ice Climbers here, it's not that big of a deal, same with Falco. Read my post about stages in the Falco Matchup thread, iirc I go on a short rant about why FD isn't bad against Falco (I'm too tired right now to repost @_@)

Dabuz · Oct 30, 2009

second favorite neutral stage right here, unless i am fighting falco, ics, or maybe diddy (doing experiments on how good oli is vs diddy on this stage) i will always try to get this, ( everyone ****ing strikes YI)

olimar is just way too annoying to approach and fight on this stage and makes the run away, throw pikmin, run to other side, throw more pikmin, strategy waaaay to good

Dyyne · Oct 31, 2009

Hey Dabuz, remember that time when I said FD might not be that bad for Diddy, and you called me dumb?
Grats, you're ridiculous.

Good luck with this thread Hilt. I never wanted my thread to die, just people would post so rarely. I really wanted to continue it, but oh well. I think people will post more with it being your thread, anyway.

Dabuz · Oct 31, 2009

Dyyne said:
Hey Dabuz, remember that time when I said FD might not be that bad for Diddy, and you called me dumb?
Grats, you're ridiculous.

Good luck with this thread Hilt. I never wanted my thread to die, just people would post so rarely. I really wanted to continue it, but oh well. I think people will post more with it being your thread, anyway.

yes, but then i realized how you can abuse this vs diddy, btw, i hven't said for sure if its good, just saying it might be good (at least better than stupid BF)

The_Altrox · Oct 31, 2009

I don't hate it, but no matter what character I play, I HATE fighting any sort of projectile character on this stage. Truth be told, if it weren't for Rainbow Cruise, I'd probably ban it against projec characters.
That being said, I don't mind playing vs. non-projec characters, but I've always prefered to have some sort of platform. That's why I'd choose smashville over this place.

BOB SAGET! · Oct 31, 2009

This is my fav stage to use against peach. I seem to find it extremly easy to out camp and out space her. Plus with out the platforms i find it easier to stay grounded without being caught in the air and screwed up with her deadly aerials.

Noa. · Oct 31, 2009

Final Destination. One of Oli's better stages imo.

This is a great stage for campiness. Characters that usually have trouble against Oli's camping game do pretty badly on this stage. Fd is also good since it provides a lot of room. It's good in matchups that rely on a lot of pivot grabbing since there's so much running space. It's easier to stay away from characters with close combat games that destroy Olimar, like Snake or Falco. I like Fd a lot.

As far as disadvantages go, I can't think of any that come to mind. Perhaps there's one, but I can't recall it now.

I'm also not entirely sure if Fd should be banned against Diddy. Oli is pretty good at handling bananas, thought I'm not sure enough if it's safe to use against Diddy. I would imagine it not working too badly against Icies. Pivot grabbing is one of the few ways to get around the blizzard, and there's ton of room just to retreat and pivot grab. I like to take Snake here since it's easier to maintain spacing with fsmash.

Dyyne · Oct 31, 2009

dabuz said:
yes, but then i realized how you can abuse this vs diddy, btw, i hven't said for sure if its good, just saying it might be good (at least better than stupid BF)

If you're trying to somehow turn this around on me, you're failing because that's exactly what I said about it.
Thanks for the apology.

Here's my summary on the stage from my thread.
"
Final Destination is a great stage for camping since it is so wide. Olimars often get carried away with their retreating pikmin tosses, but you must remain wary of how close you are to the edge to prevent any possible gimps. Final Destination is now infamous in Brawl for its bull**** edges. Fortunately, olimar's tether isn't too effected by this, since it auto-targets the edge anyway. So as long as you are not directly under the lip of the stage, it shouldn't matter too much.
Although he doesn't have the vertical comboility (lul wut? don't know what word to use lul) available on battlefield, he does have room for simple dthrow combos. As stated, olimar's camping game is superb on this stage. Keep pivot grabbing in mind. The width of FD allows you to patiently camp waiting for the opportunity to punish by pivot grabbing.
This level is boring, but those details are often crucial in matches.
"

Dabuz · Nov 1, 2009

Dyyne said:
If you're trying to somehow turn this around on me, you're failing because that's exactly what I said about it.
Thanks for the apology.

Here's my summary on the stage from my thread.
"
Final Destination is a great stage for camping since it is so wide. Olimars often get carried away with their retreating pikmin tosses, but you must remain wary of how close you are to the edge to prevent any possible gimps. Final Destination is now infamous in Brawl for its bull**** edges. Fortunately, olimar's tether isn't too effected by this, since it auto-targets the edge anyway. So as long as you are not directly under the lip of the stage, it shouldn't matter too much.
Although he doesn't have the vertical comboility (lul wut? don't know what word to use lul) available on battlefield, he does have room for simple dthrow combos. As stated, olimar's camping game is superb on this stage. Keep pivot grabbing in mind. The width of FD allows you to patiently camp waiting for the opportunity to punish by pivot grabbing.
This level is boring, but those details are often crucial in matches.
"

sooooo, im confused, why were you angry at me for changing my decision on a stage through experience?

IcyLight · Nov 1, 2009

who cares dabuz

i have had good experience on thsi stage vs. diddy. it allows you to grab his banana and side b spam from a distance, and it's hard for him to approach because of the stage size. i like to bring falcos here because of our ability to out camp him, and also my second favorite neutral (next to yoshis or battlefield)

everyone pretty much said everything, but this is my favorite stage to CP if rainbow is banned

DtJ Hilt · Nov 3, 2009

I really can't see FD being good against Diddy, to be honest :/

I'm just not seeing it. If he gets banana control, we're ****ed on this stage. There's no platforms to escape to, or to mess up his flow. This isn't the case on battlefield, or smashville to an extent. He just out does us here. And i'm not seeing a reason why we would ban anything over this against diddy lol. If we do well against him here, we should **** him everywhere else, but we don't. Diddy is the only character that I would ban, FD against, and ICs are the only ones I wouldn't like and would even consider banning, though I probably wouldn't.

What characters (that you see often in tournament) would you necessarily CP FD against? And I'm talking about you getting a noticeable advantage against teh character there. I wouldn't take ICs there for obvious reasons, but I woudln't necessarily ban it against them. Same with Falco, to be honest.

Denti · Nov 3, 2009

-Hilt- said:
Diddy kong is the only character I'll ban this stage against. However, fox does really well here as well against us, and so does sonic, tbh, but it's not that bad against him. But I always ban this stage against Diddy. I don't mind fighting Ice Climbers here, it's not that big of a deal, same with Falco. Read my post about stages in the Falco Matchup thread, iirc I go on a short rant about why FD isn't bad against Falco (I'm too tired right now to repost @_@)

Sonic isn't good here if you play olimar cheap enough. In the sonic match up here short hop to pikmin toss when you two are far away but when sonic is closer F smashes (pivot grabs = fantastic also) i played a sonic here that was very good and i 3 stocked him, though it was a 7 minute round lol. F smash and pikmin toss allow super camp on FD against sonic.

Falco vs. olimar is good/okay on this stage because you can run around. on a small stage when you two move around olimar is pressured into bad situations that falco isn't. think of it like this, falco wins at close range and at long range, if you two are running around and constantly being put in different spacing situations falco is ADV 2-3 of the time, stage position wise of course. FD allows more spacing control for olimar to be at mid range, falco is easier to deal with on this stage.

Diddy kong - doesn't bother me as much on this stage, but i can't think of a stage he'd be better at so it would make sense to ban this stage, but this stage isn't horrible in this match up because olimar can run and camp.

Iceclimbers - i'd ban this stage fast. when i play against IC i play very, awkward. I constantly am spamming pikmin toss and jumping from platforms to stage to avoid their grab. doing this lets me see a point where i can separate them with a grab or down smash. This is the only stage where i wouldn't have a platform to be my savior from death grabs.

Metaknight - I like this matchup here because I can spam pikmin toss and f smash space. I piviot grab his tornado and side B because i have running space. I think this and BF could be the best stages for olimar against MK.

Snake - I would personally be afraid of playing a snake here. snake doesn't have other variable to consider, just a straight up flat stage. I'm not saying this is set up for olimar failure, I'm saying BF, YI, and PS1 are better choices imo because snake can't maneuver well threw stage interference/blockage when olimar is pressuring him.

Peach - this is a great neutral to take peach. you can camp and run away from situations you wont win. peach must quickly approach olimar to avoid massive damage from pikmin toss, this promotes bad spacing and panic for peach. my point is you have options here against peach that get you out of bad situations due to the stage being long.

this is the camping stage, keep that in mind against other characters that out camp olimar

Tin Man · Nov 3, 2009

I say, don't bring the following characters to FD because they can out camp u or the lack of platforms helps their meta game to much.

Falco
Diddy
Not sure about Pikachu
Ice Climbers
Not sure about Toon Link
Pit
Fox
Not sure about Samus.

Bring every other character here, one of Olimar's strongest counterpicks.

Llumys · Nov 3, 2009

Kirby's better on Final Destination.

<_<;

DtJ Hilt · Nov 3, 2009

Pit I can see, Fox as well, Toon Link... meh. Kirby? Explain please. I've never had a reason to not play kirby on FD. It gives me plenty of room to not get close range on the ground against him which is never where I want to be. And platforms help him so much in this matchup. Mayab if he gets our power, sure, but that's only because he's able to outcamp us and platforms could make it easier for us to get around him.

Dyyne · Nov 3, 2009

-Hilt- said:
I really can't see FD being good against Diddy, to be honest :/

I'm just not seeing it. If he gets banana control, we're ****ed on this stage. There's no platforms to escape to, or to mess up his flow. This isn't the case on battlefield, or smashville to an extent. He just out does us here. And i'm not seeing a reason why we would ban anything over this against diddy lol.

I think that platforms against diddy are actually not as useful as they seem (at least not battlefields, smashville's work pretty well). People seem to forget the fact that Diddy ***** olimar in the air (aside from oli's uair, of course). If you try to "escape" to a platform, you're just setting yourself up. Not to mention how cramped the whole thing is...there's just no room to work. (Smashville is probably better than both of these stages lol...)

BOB SAGET! · Nov 3, 2009

FD is a good stage to out camp Snake. Olimar can outcamp snake on a flat simple stage. Snake is a lot harder to face on bf or yi. He can just put his grenades on top of platforms right above us; pressuring us. It ****s up our approach to mid range.

FD against diddy is dependant on the player. If the olimar player is really good with bananna control then go to FD aslong as you know how to use bannans and make sure diddy doesnt take control of them first. It'd be a lot simpler to just go to another stage where bananna control isn't as important and we can still camp well and juggle without being as messed up with bananna control. We can basiclly still stick with olimars main game.

Denti · Nov 3, 2009

Tin man - i agree with those characters, but i believe toonlink not so much.

Llumys - I think kirby plays well here but i don't see a disadvantage, we out camp him and can run away. explain please :0

Dyyne - yes! platforms plus a smaller stage

people like to get away from our sexy grab range but a smaller stage will show them we wont let that happen ;D

Bob saget - i can see olimar out camping snake. and i agree with the diddy kong on FD isn't awful if you don't let them get banana control, but it would just be less of a pain just to ban it and go to an easier stage.

BOB SAGET! · Nov 3, 2009

Denti said:
Bob saget - but it would just be less of a pain just to ban it and go to an easier stage.

That is exactly what I said, we have an advantage against diddy without banannas already, making the banannas less important is a lot easier than having to always worry about banannas and put all your focus on banannas.

Denti · Nov 3, 2009

true that mister saget! where would you take diddy kong? i still have not yet found a real cp for him yet, i take him to RC.. haha

Fino · Nov 4, 2009

Denti said:
true that mister saget! where would you take diddy kong? i still have not yet found a real cp for him yet, i take him to RC.. haha

Stages like Yoshi's island are good against diddy... but the current topic is FD.

~Fino

Denti · Nov 4, 2009

of course, just thought i should get a few answers while I'm at it ;D I should have asked you on the ask a question thing but i was too lazy and interested in what bob saget did for diddy.

Llumys · Nov 4, 2009

Kirby just plays better on Final Destination. It has nothing to do with Olimar. It'd be a better idea to take him to Battlefield or Yoshi's.

DanGR · Nov 4, 2009

Kirby sucks on any stage he plays Olimar on, lol. All he can do is... I don't even know. Kirby doesn't have anything if you keep him out well enough. Shield, pivotgrab, and upair a ton when he's in the air and never shield when he's on the ground. Spam pikmin, grabs, spaced fsmashes, and anticipate rolls and he's not quick enough to get in.

What really screws Kirby over is a lot of space. FD gives you a lot of room to move around and play safely. At the same time, platforms force Kirby to play grounded. Pick whatever stage you want, really.

Denti · Nov 4, 2009

i was going to say that! but you beat me to it! lol. yea kirby doesn't have.. anything.. lol i personally do better on BF but FD would be fine.

Llumys · Nov 4, 2009

Kirby doesn't have anything on Olimar, no. I still think that Final Destination doesn't guarantee a win as much as Battlefield.

professor mgw · Nov 4, 2009

I myself HATE BF, when someone combos ALL credit goes to the stage really. FD I'll play on with any character. Olimar plays pretty well on FD.

Llumys · Nov 4, 2009

While Battlefield does hurt Olimar's air dodge punishing game and whatnot, it's still a decent stage against certain characters. Juggling with aerials and platform pressure is amazing here. Obviously, you don't want to be here against Luigi, Marth, Peach, Meta Knight, etc.

Anyway, that's off-topic. <_<;

PSIQuasi · Nov 5, 2009

In the end, it all depends on the match-up. If you're really campy, this stage would definitely do, due to the space, size and platform factor. Even though there aren't platforms, I never liked them. They could get in the way of your pikmin tosses, and its larger(....?) giving you a good survivability. But overall, its based on the character, probably to someone with a bad-no projectile, unless you're pikmin feel like being martyrs......(~~I'm talking to YOU White Pikmin....so much hate......~~)

Denti · Nov 6, 2009

i gave my thoughts about the stage now i'll give it my opinion on when to chose it.

Choose FD when you can out Camp your opponent, enough said. FD isn't a just some flat fair stage, it's a run away stage where campers and fragile strategies make sweet love.

DtJ Hilt · Nov 6, 2009

Final Destination

Summary: Considered to be one of our best stages, Final Destination is arguably our best Neutral for a very good reason. FD's flatness gives us plenty of room to avoid our opponent without fear of being cornered easily, since Olimar is at a huge, huge, disadvantage when backed against a ledge. Characters that Olimar can outcamp, we do extremely well against on this stage, however, juggling the opponent isn't as easy as on, say, battlefield, due to the lack of platforms. Many Olimar mains don't mind trading this for the size and simplicity of the stage, though.

Pros:
-With more room we're able to avoid those opponents that dominate us at close range.
-Pivot grabbing is more effective, as running out of room doesn't happen as often.
-Olimar is not affected by the shape of FD's sides, as several other characters are.
-Juggling Olimar is made a bit more difficult with the lack of platforms, however this is not as big of a pro as the others.

Cons:
-For those rare matchups that Olimar gets out camped in (wolf?), the size can be a problem.

Counterpick:

Neutral: All of the above

Ban:

(both of these charcters are controversial. Many players consider Olimar to do fine on this stage against both of these characters, however since there isn't a known better ban we can use against them, FD is the best choice for ban.

Strike Against: Falco, Pikachu, Pit

Pluck Percentages
Main Stage: 23%, 23%, 23%, 15%, 15%

Return to Stage Directory

Llumys · Nov 6, 2009

Our bad match-ups are easier here.

BOB SAGET! · Nov 6, 2009

It's funny that all of our bad matchup ups have either no projectile or a very medicore one compared to pikmn throw. FD is amazing!

Llumys · Nov 6, 2009

It's funny that all of our bad match-ups can deal with our projectile fairly easily.

Official Olimar Stage Discussion

Little Lizard

Little Lizard

Smash Master

Smash Lord

Little Lizard

Smash Champion

Little Lizard

Fraud at Smash

Smash Ace

Fraud at Smash

Smash Lord

Smash Lord

Smash Master

Smash Ace

Fraud at Smash

Smash Lord

Little Lizard

Smash Master

Smash Hero

Smash Champion

Little Lizard

Smash Ace

Smash Lord

Smash Master

Smash Lord

Smash Master

Smash Master

Smash Master

Smash Champion

BRoomer

Smash Master

Smash Champion

Smash Champion

Smash Champion

Smash Cadet

Smash Master

Little Lizard

Smash Champion

Smash Lord

Smash Champion

Information

Network