Lucario vs. Zelda (33) Export

Zelda

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Veggie123 said:

some last minute Z input,

It is very difficult for Zelda to approach a Lucario playing campy/defensive. A Zelda that is forced to take the initiative is hindered by the fact that her approaches are predictable and otherwise terrible. Like stated earlier, Lucario's fsmash is extremely hard to punish for Zelda, which only adds to the problem of closing the distance. She's also easy to juggle in the air, mainly relying on airdodges to safely get back onto the stage (charged fsmash says hi). A well timed aura sphere can also make recovering a nightmare due to its sluggish nature, not that Lucario has any trouble gimping her anyway.

I disagree about Zelda having trouble killing Lucario. Bair out of shield can prove to be quite gruesome and can net that strategic early kill. Dsmash, while not as strong as some of the other moves within her arsenal, has almost all horizontal knockback and will put Lucario in an unfavorable position that can usually can force an up b, which iirc isn't the best recovery in the game. Uair and fair also kill very early, but are significantly harder to land than the aforementioned (uair is more believable if a Lucario mispaces a dair or something). Fresh dtilts at higher percents can pop Lucario up and can lead into a usmash/utilt which are also reliable kill moves. Lucario can try to dair her after he gets hit by a dtilt, but a smart Zelda can just shield and punish. Dair outranges usmash and trades with utilt, but it kind of just leaves Lucario up out in the open just waiting to eat a usmash/tilt if shielded.

Regardless, it's pretty bad for Zelda. Not hard counter bad, but any character that can force Zelda to approach give her some trouble.

6:4 Lucario's favor

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JigglyZelda003 said:

I think Zelda vs Lucario is about 60:40 Lucario. you can/should camp to your hearts content cause Zelda can stop approaches, but can't approach very well. her dtilt can cancel out non charged aura spears and i think that goes until lucario gets to <70%. i haven't fought many lucarios though, mostly just rollycarios who camp and wall out w/ Fsmash. i only know approaches w/ Fair, but does he have any others?

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MythTrainerInfinity said:

Stay away from the edge if she's trying to kill you with her FSmash, since its multi-hit you can get pushed off and hit without much of a chance to SDI at all.

Her Utilt kills somewhat early. If she is using her Up B she might try to hit you out of it, but if you're in the air it'll be pretty hard for her to hit you when doing that. She might also try to use it to space, but it is somewhat laggy, so you can Aura Sphere her out of it.

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JigglyZelda003 said:

lol i forgot about that thread, but i was just focusing on the camping since thats mostly what i've delt w/ against lucarios.

if you jump at her Zelda will probably attempt to Usmash or jab you. as for nayrus, yes it does have invincibility frames, i forget where they start, but i'd use it only if you have AS charged in attempts to reflect, or you get rolly.


thats why i wouldn't really attempt a SHFair/Bair often. zelda can only really win air combat if your above her.


naw upB proably won't be used to hit unless you were hanging on the edge or something and not invincible, or ledgewarping, Zelda can space around better just by running/walking.

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Half-Split Soul said:

It has invincibility frames and is good for punishing rolls/spotdodges + can also be used for momentum canceling, but otherwise you shouldn't be too afraid of this move. It won't kill or cause too much damage and can't be used to approach. It also is highly punishable by virtually anything if you shield it or if she uses it at a wrong time.



If Dtilt trips at low percents, Zelda'll probably follow with grab as that's her most damaging option. If you know she's going to use Dsmash instead (happens mostly when you're at the higher percents) DI down and tech it. SDI away to escape her Dtilt lock.



Also watch out for jab => Dtilt near the edge. It's quaranteed and might spike you/make you open for punishment.



Any good Zelda'll never try to hit you with Farore's Wind, especially if you're in the air. The move has half a second lag both on startup and cooldown, so whenever she's forced to use it get ready to punish. She can cancel the ending lag by teleporting to the ledge from a correct distance away (the ledgewarping Jiggly was referring to) but that's not a huge concern. It's mostly used for landing a surprise power aerial.


Lucario's Fsmash isn't too big of a problem. It's highly unpunishable, but the slow-ish startup prevents it from being too dangerous. Zelda's Fsmash also has farely good range and is quicker on startup than yours, so in to successively hold her off with your Fsmash alone your spacing would have to be perfect.

Likewise, Zelda's Utilt can actually outrange your Dair (vertically) but is extremely hard to time for that.

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FlameWaveK said:

Don't misspace your fairs in front of a grounded zelda either, thats just asking for a lightning kick to the crouch.

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MythTrainerInfinity said:

Against Zelda you want to play wisely on the ground, don't be too hasty to jump at her when she's on the ground because she will hit ya easily (one of her smashes, her neutral B, or SH lightning kicks). Her Neutral B is a pretty good GTFO move and I think it has invincibility frames, but I'm not sure. Just don't spam Aura Spheres mindlessly.

Your air attacks > her air attacks. You can SDI out of Zelda's FSmash and USmash. Watch out for her Dtilt (causes tripping) to DSmash (SDI away when hit by her Dtilt). You outprioritize her Din's Fire with FAir and UAir too I think. Din's Fire is generally pretty laggy and will put her in a helpless state if she's in the air (don't expect her to do it in the air much). Keep an Aura Sphere handy if you have the opportunity to hit her out of Din's Fire. If you can read it well enough you can use a Reverse Double Team to get closer to her.

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FlameWaveK said:

if you want to be cool you can DI dsmash into the ground and tech it if your hit from inside the stage x3

Zelda is fairly light and cannot kill you very reliably so the match-up isn't really that hard. its definitely our advantage.

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Finman702 said:

Zeldas dtilt can get dangerous as a lock around 50%, and will pop you up at about 100+ which when that happens I go to utilt ftw, in short dtilt is something to watch out for.

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MythTrainerInfinity said:

Overall though as far as CQC goes your FSmash outranges her and gives her a really hard time. Don't get too DAir happy if she's grounded because she can easily punish you for it with her USmash, Utilt, or Uair.

When I think about spacing against her its really similar to fighting Snake (slow, easy to juggle, can't DAir spam due to Up tilts killing early, etc.). If you know what you're doing and can space the match-up is probably around 60:40 or 65:35 Lucario's favor.

Half-Split Soul said:

When she's recovering she'll most likely try to sweetspot the ledge, so time your edgehog to kill her or force her to land on stage. You can also punish her startup with your aerials or AS.

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FlameWaveK said:

Zelda
If you keep zelda in fsmash tipper range the only way she can punish/outspeed it is with dash attack or stutterstep forward fsmash, and the latter trades hits which is really bad for zelda considering hers is a multihit. The former is just plain easy to shieldgrab and doesn't even reward much on hit.

Stay on the ground, keep yourself away from dsmash & [running] upsmash range and zelda is going to have a hard time killing you.

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Stages:

Finman702 said:

As a Zelda, stage wise, I personally hate japes. I always have a hard time getting out of the water with FWs long start up I fall right back in.

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MythTrainerInfinity said:

Also ban/strike BF and other stages that let her harass you with her utilt, usmash, etc.

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Half-Split Soul said:

If it's legal, ban Luigi's. It's clearly her best stage.

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FlameWaveK said:

As for stages:
Final Destination is just good in general for us.
Frigate can force her into her to land onstage with her recovery which is really bad for her.

and I always recommend castle siege, just because <3

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Disclaimer: This thread is made for the sole purpose of keeping matchup discussing clean and organized. If people wish to discuss a past matchup, they may do so in this thread without cluttering the current discussion.

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phi1ny3 said:

That picture made my day :D
lolpun

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