• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Diddy and his Ledge Options

Dekar173

Justice Man
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
3,126
Location
Albuquerque, NM
Video archive (incomplete)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCnZ28uQn_M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRsvGFU1JBA

Terminology:

Ledgehop- Dropping from the ledge, then performing a double jump.

Ledgejump- Inputting a jump while hanging from the ledge.

Get up attack- Inputting a smash or attack while on the ledge (they both produce the same thing)

Regular get up- Inputting forward while hanging from the ledge, it causes you to just stand up on top of the ledge.





Basic ledge options-

Get up attack (0-99%):

Pros:
•average get up attack speed
•decent range
•set knock back that will position you to recover

Cons:
•If they shield it, they have a free grab
•Marth's fsmash can tipper you safely from get up attack
•Blizzard easily outspaces this
•DK's fsmash
•It is slow in comparison to just getting up onto the stage

Get up attack (100%+):

Pros:
•Invincible until the hitbox is out
•set knock back allowing you to recover
•VERY good range

Cons:
•If they shield it, they have free (insert lots of moves)
•Marth fsmash, again, can tipper you safely from get up attack
•Blizzard
•It is VERY slow

Roll (0-99%):

Pros:
•Decently fast, for a roll
•puts you on the stage
•messes up the spacing of some attacks, and gives you time to DI if they catch you

Cons:
•Being that it's a roll, it's still SLOW and therefore-
•Easy to punish
•invincible for little over half of the roll

Roll (100%):

Pros:
•lots of invincibility
•puts you on the stage
•again, gives you time to DI retaliatory attacks, and messes up spacing

Cons:
•It's like rolling, but as if your opponent has shadow and the timer ****** your speed. SLOW
•VERY easy to punish, unless if they mess up the spacing
•lots of dead frames where you can get punished

Regular get up (0-99%)

Pros:
•Fast
•decent amount of invincibility frames
•puts you at a 1-2 frame disadvantage against a shielding opponent (for ledge options, that's good)

Cons:
•No active hitbox
•you're still at a frame disadvantage
•Places you in tipper range against a Marth who knows how to edgeguard
•If they're charging a smash, you're probably going to eat it
•Lingering hitboxes

Regular get up (100%+):

Pros:
•Good invincibility frames

Cons:
•No active hitbox
•Sloooow (huge disadvantage framewise)
•Tipper
•Charged smashes/lingering hitboxes will **** this option

Ledgejump (0-99%):

Pros:
•Mix-ups
•Fast, more difficult to read/predict than most other options
•gives you more options than the others, and doesn't give you a frame disadvantage

Cons:
•it puts you in the air, ABOVE a ledgeguarding opponent (positional disadvantage)
•lingering hitboxes will **** this option

Ledgejump (100%+):

Pros:
•Mix-ups
•Moderately fast
•again, no frame disadvantage
•If you buffer uair, you can both hit an unwary opponent and grab a naner if it's close to the edge

Cons:

•positional disadvantage
•lingering hitboxes

Ledge dropping (to my knowledge this is unaffected by %):

Pros:
•Mix-ups
•Tends to "force" reactions
•Punishes impatient opponents

Cons:
•Liable to fall into a pattern
•Ledge grab limit!



Advanced options (AKA, mix-ups ;)):



Ledgedrop Options

These are options that include a ledgedrop (pushing away from the ledge or down) and then something else.

Ledgehop > Walljump

The desired result is to drop, and then almost immediately walljump, this allows you to naner pluck while being edgeguarded, placing a banana on the stage.

Input- rotate the directional stick from down to up, rotating TOWARDS the stage in between your down to up inputs, double jumping almost immediately and then walljumping afterward.

Example: if you're hanging from the left side of FD, you press down, then rotate the directional stick counter-clockwise to the up position, DJing and then walljumping.

It takes practice.

Pros:
•Your back is towards the opponent, bair/naner pluck territory
•positionally it places you away from the opponent (theoretically, unless if they are chasing you)

Cons:
•Uses your Double Jump
•Places you offstage and even closer to the blastzone
•Does not work on Smashville

Ledgehop > Diddy Hump:

Pros:
A good mix-up for grabbing a shield happy opponent, and getting their pressure off of you

Cons:
The con is that it's rather slow, and easy to punish if your opponent has good range

Ledgehop > Diddy Kick:

Pros:
•A good mix-up for pushing an opponent into a naner, or punishing careless opponents

Cons:
•Again, rather slow and punishable

Drop > Diddy Hump > Walljump (Final Destination, assuming you actually get to play it XD):

Pros:
•gives you the opportunity to naner pluck
•bair poor edgeguarders
•still have your DJ

Cons:
•can be stagespiked if used poorly
•dtilts similar to Ike's will spike you

Drop > Barrel > DON'T grab ledge

Input: Drop (down) > upB > hold down

The effect will be you barreling past the ledge

Pros:
•Hits opponents attempting to fastgrab the ledge
•will barrel cancel against certain attacks
•if hit, you still have your DJ

Cons:
•Can theoretically be edgehogged
•tipperbait

Ledgehop > Wavebounced PGC (popgun cancel):

Inputs: rotate your directional stick from down to back (double jumping in the process) then letting the stick hit the neutral position, neutral B (popgun,) then jam the directional stick forward and press shield almost simultaneously

The desired effect is you dropping, then jumping almost directly onto the stage, with 0 lag

Pros:
•Misleading to your opponent
•Small frame disadvantage
•(if you have a naner in your hand) leads into trip > insert **** against a careless opponent

Cons:
•No doublejump if they intercept you before touching the ground
•Though it is small, you still have a frame disadvantage



Ledgejump options

Options that include pressing jump while on the ledge. REMEMBER- the timing on a ledgejump DIFFER depending on what your percentage is at. 0-99% is FASTER than 100%+

Ledgejump > Buffered Wavebounced PGC:

Inputs: Jump and RIGHT before you jump input your neutral B, then jam your directional stick backwards from the stage, pressing shield to cancel the popgun.

VISUAL Example around 1:25

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cF7rvLu2QI&feature=related

Pros:
•Saves your DJ
•No frame disadvantage
•Places you away from the opponent
•Gives you the opportunity to naner pluck
•Still have Diddy Hump/Kick

Cons:
•Places you in the air
•It's a ledgehop, so lingering hitboxes punish it

Ledgejump > Buffered aerial

Inputs: Jump, then RIGHT before Diddy jumps, input an aerial.

Pros:
•Saves your DJ
•Hits opponents standing on the edge
•Main advantage: it picks up naners laying near the ledge

Cons:
•Lingering hitboxes
•Moderate frame disadvantage, reactive opponents will easily punish it

(Smashville only) Ledgejump > Waveland on platform

Inputs: Jump, and then on the instant that Diddy's frame is on top of the platform, input a dair or downB.

You will ledgejump, but will then be instantly grounded on top of the platform, with 0 lag (if you dair) or with a banana coming out of who knows where, if you input a downB :D

Pros:
•Saves your DJ
•No frame disadvantage
•Gives you the opportunity to naner pluck
•GROUNDS YOU
•Great mix-up, it is so fast that it is very difficult to punish

Cons:
•You are above the opponent
•Most characters are capable of this
•Lingering hitboxes punish it



Options good for when there is a naner near the ledge:

Jedgejump > Buffered Z-catch

Inputs: Jump, then RIGHT before Diddy jumps, press grab, or shield + A
You will jump from the ledge, and the naner (it must be at least somewhat near the ledge) will be instantly placed in your hand.

Pros:
•You have a naner in your hand!
•You are at no frame disadvantage
•You have your DJ
•You have your sideB
•You can pluck naners

Cons:
•You are placed above the opponent
•Lingering hitboxes punish it
•Pretty technical

Ledgehop > instant throw

Pros:
•Relatively safe
•Often unexpected
•Great for mix-ups
•Pressures the edgeguarder

Cons:
•Uses your DJ
•People with good OoS options easily punish
•Naner can be caught when an opponents dash attack or aerials



Options WITH a naner in hand

(Naner in hand) Drop > smash throw naner up > DJ > instant throw naner

Inputs: Drop, then up on c-stick, double jump, and air-dodge cancelled throw the naner forward, up, etc.

Pros:
•Very safe
•Good for pressuring from the ledge
•Allows you to regrab the ledge
•Stalling option
•Good for mix-ups, you can catch the naner instead

Cons:
•Uses your DJ
•Opponents good with items can instant throw the naner back at you
•Does not place you back on the stage

"Instant" walljump > Smash naner pluck > DJ > throw naner on stage (again, can NOT be done on Smashville!)

Pros:
•Pretty safe
•Places you away from the opponent, while simultaneously pressuring them
•Allows you to regrab the ledge
•Great for giving yourself a better position

Cons:
•Uses DJ
•Character specific moves **** this option
•Naners can be taken by opponent





Things that, if practiced, will help you with your ledge options:

wavebounced PGC
B-reversed Diddy Hump
"instant" walljumping
Buffering aerials out of ledgehops (remember, the timing to buffer when you're between 0-99% and when you're at 100%+ are different)
"Autolanding" on moving platforms (as close to wavelanding as Brawl's current metagame allows)


Good luck Diddys, no more complaining about getting ***** on the ledge! :D
 

Dekar173

Justice Man
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
3,126
Location
Albuquerque, NM
Not sure whether it's a wavebounced or b-reversed diddy hump- input goes sideB > input backwards

probably a wavebounce ;D
 

Coyn3Masta

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
355
Location
NJ
Not sure whether it's a wavebounced or b-reversed diddy hump- input goes sideB > input backwards

probably a wavebounce ;D
Do you have a video of this o.O?

Nice thread btw, i suck at the ledge.
 

Dekar173

Justice Man
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
3,126
Location
Albuquerque, NM
Do you have a wii you can practice on?

I'd suggest starting up trying it with Captain Falcon, the input is

leftB > Right


You'll notice a different animation.

With Diddy, after seeing how CF does it, I think it'll be easier to see whether you're doing it properly or not.
 

Hobs

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 22, 2008
Messages
390
Location
Mississauga, Canada (Hobs crk)
Can you clarify something?
I always thought ledgehop was: tap back > jump
and ledgejump was just pressing jump.
Did you miss ledgehop aerial?

I don't even know what Diddy's gu attack looks like. :p 95% of the time it's ledgehop aerial (?), roll, or ledgejump (?). Is that bad?
 

Coyn3Masta

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
355
Location
NJ
Do you have a wii you can practice on?

I'd suggest starting up trying it with Captain Falcon, the input is

leftB > Right


You'll notice a different animation.

With Diddy, after seeing how CF does it, I think it'll be easier to see whether you're doing it properly or not.
Okay, I'm gonna try it later tonight thx =P
 

Dekar173

Justice Man
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
3,126
Location
Albuquerque, NM
Can you clarify something?
I always thought ledgehop was: tap back > jump
and ledgejump was just pressing jump.
Did you miss ledgehop aerial?

I don't even know what Diddy's gu attack looks like. :p 95% of the time it's ledgehop aerial (?), roll, or ledgejump (?). Is that bad?
Heh thanks, I was a bit iffy on the terminology, no wonder, I was wrong ;p

as for what you're asking, it depends- are you getting punished on the ledge most of the time? If so, you're definitely doing something wrong :X
 

Hobs

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 22, 2008
Messages
390
Location
Mississauga, Canada (Hobs crk)
Heh thanks, I was a bit iffy on the terminology, no wonder, I was wrong ;p

as for what you're asking, it depends- are you getting punished on the ledge most of the time? If so, you're definitely doing something wrong :X
I was just wondering what Diddys think are the best options.
 

Dekar173

Justice Man
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
3,126
Location
Albuquerque, NM
Honestly, I don't think there's a "best" option, though there most certainly is a WORST option- rolling.

Unless if your opponent has attention deficit disorder (and sometimes that isn't even enough) you're going to get punished for rolling.

Then again, there are definitely some moments when you can roll. It's just, extremely situational :D
 

sai_:)

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
826
the wavebounced PGC is something ive never seen before. it seems really cool and helpful...and most of all flashy ;). thanks for this thread. i suck SOOOOO bad at the ledge and ive just seen a new option. more so i expect people to expand upon this thread with what they personally like to do from the ledge....not that we diddy's can do much anyway lol
 

Conti

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
839
Location
Philadelphia, PA
EDIT: Nvm... lol, the last option is very nice....... That was the exact ledge option i was trying to figure out... going to learn this ASAP...
 

TreK

Is "that guy"
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
2,960
Location
France
I can't get the timing for the last one =/

Maybe you should add what you can do with a nana in hand (I've seen ADHD drop down and throw it up which looks suuuuuper cool (until people learn instathrows xD))
 

Dekar173

Justice Man
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
3,126
Location
Albuquerque, NM
I'll be adding a bit more when I've got the time, I'll also be making different sections depending on the scenario at hand, sort of like a flow chart =O
 

chimpact

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
1,300
Location
South Jersey
3DS FC
0361-7166-1377
Certain characters also destroy some options like marth beats everything by just standing there :( . And ledge jumping in general will get you bair/fai r'd by dk, ddd, marth, peach etc..
 

seven7xenon

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
Messages
21
Location
Birmingham, U.K.
One I do sometimes is drop by flicking back, then diddy flipping away from the stage to a jump and banana pluck to get a banana on stage. Normally doesn't work against aggressive edgeguarders but it gets a banana on stage if you get the chance to use it.

The instant walljump can also be used to bair and then diddy flip straight onto the stage which is good if you are haviing trouble getting up from the ledge.
 

DUB

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 7, 2008
Messages
1,514
Location
Wilmington, NC
This was a much needed thread if ya ask me.

Next time you update Dekar don't forget ledge hop instant tossing! Too good
 
Top Bottom