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Character Matchups & Strategies, v.2

ElNoNombreHombre

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Pikachu's Character Matchups & Strategies

Welcome to the central thread for Pikachu's matchup strategies! Directly below you will find a chart listing all of Pika's MU ratios vs. the rest of the cast, and below that is a list of write-ups with more detailed information. Keep in mind that these numbers and summaries are subject to change as the metagame continues to develop.

If you would like to see a particular character discussed, feel free to make a suggestion. We are currently in the process of re-discussing all of our matchups.

- How to read the chart -
The first number represents Pikachu; the second number represents the opponent's character. 50:50 is an even matchup. Higher numbers show an advantage, and, naturally, lower numbers show a disadvantage.

These are not percentages. 40:60 does not mean you will win 40% of the time. It simply means that Pikachu has a definite disadvantage, and you will have to outplay your opponent to win.




Best Matchups: Captain Falcon, Fox, Ganondorf, Sheik
Worst Matchups: Marth, G&W, Diddy, Olimar

Specific Character Threads:
Currently Discussing: Bowser - Donkey Kong - Falco - Kirby - Meta Knight - Zero Suit Samus

Diddy Kong - Ice Climbers - Ike - King Dedede - Lucario - Luigi - Marth - Mario - Mr. Game & Watch - Olimar - Peach - Toon Link - Wario

[collapse=Upcoming Discussion Queue]
Going forward, we'll be discussing two characters every two weeks (Zelda/Sheik will be bundled as "one" character, despite having two separate threads for this purpose, so one two-week block will have "three" characters). If this pace turns out to be to aggressive, then I'll scale it back. If it's too glacial, I'll intensify it.

The order presented below is not set in stone, but is roughly ordered by my preference. It can be modified by votes from other pikas, or if another character board starts discussing us before we get to them, then it'll get pushed back (by at least a month from the start of their discussion).

Code:
PRIORITY CHARACTER                DATE
--------------------------------------
      1. Wolf.................10/06/10
      2. Pit..................10/06/10
      3. R.O.B................10/20/10
      4. Ness.................10/20/10
      5. Lucas................11/03/10
      6. Snake................11/03/10
      7. Yoshi................11/17/10
      8. Jigglypuff...........11/17/10
      9. Sonic................12/01/10
     10. Fox..................12/01/10
     11. Captain Falcon.......12/15/10
     12. Zelda................12/15/10
     13. Sheik................12/15/10
     14. Pokémon Trainer......12/29/10
     15. Samus................12/29/10
     16. Ganondorf............01/12/10
     17. Link.................01/12/10
[/collapse]
Outdated Discussions:

Captain Falcon - Fox - Ganondorf - Jigglypuff - Link - Lucas - Ness - Pit - Pokémon Trainer - R.O.B. - Samus - Sheik - Snake - Sonic - Wolf - Yoshi - Zelda

Requesting Lock
Bowser - Donkey Kong - Falco - Kirby - Meta Knight - Zero Suit Samus

Who's Talking About Us:

:lucario: Lucario

Major thanks to everyone who's contributed!
 

KayLo!

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Thanks. =D

I decided to break from the intervals-of-5 system because the numbering shenanigans we had before were kind of.... confusing and unnecessary.

This way, you can clearly see which MUs are relatively harder than others (as opposed to having like..... 9 MUs at the same 45:55 ratio, for example), but it's still in the ratio format people are familiar with.

If anybody's confused, ignoring the second number in the ratio helps. So instead of reading "52:48," just focus on the 52.
 

Legendary Pikachu

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*sees and thinks that 1-2 of my numbers were the majority of the X's* T_T....

J/k... ^_^

I must either do exceptionally well, or my opponents exeptionally suck then... :p


I like the layout
 

KayLo!

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Hehe, only 3 numbers were x'd out, and I'm pretty sure they all came from different people. Or maybe not. I can't remember, tbh. x.x
 

Alphicans

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Pika boards ****, I gotta admit. However, some of these match-ups seem a tad off, but this is really good compared to the other boards.
 

KayLo!

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Personally, I agree that Ness should be a bit harder, but not by much.

But if you think Charizard is that hard, you're doing it wrong.
 

Zee725

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I play FOW on a regular basis, and i can tell you that Ness vs Pikachu is not fun for pikachu lol, magnet cancelling destroys your projectile game, no grab releases and ness has more range/priority and a much higher kill potential.
 

KayLo!

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I play FOW on a regular basis, and i can tell you that Ness vs Pikachu is not fun for pikachu lol, magnet cancelling destroys your projectile game, no grab releases and ness has more range/priority and a much higher kill potential.
Wellll, since you never submitted any ratios (:mad:), if you have a number for Ness, I can add it in and modify the overall ratio.
 

bigman40

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I play FOW on a regular basis, and i can tell you that Ness vs Pikachu is not fun for pikachu lol, magnet cancelling destroys your projectile game, no grab releases and ness has more range/priority and a much higher kill potential.
I concur with this. I didn't have to play Prime a lot to understand how tough this MU goes against Pikachu. Can't camp. Can't approach either. Ness it basically that semi-heavy counter to Pikachu imo.


~Mieu
 

KayLo!

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Protip, guys: If you don't contribute, the final results aren't going to reflect your opinions. Saying you disagree after the fact doesn't really help.

Just throwing that out there. :)
 

Mike G

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Wow, I must say that this chart looks extra sexy! Awesome work there, KayLo! :bigthumbu


bigman40: No johns.
 

bigman40

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Wow, I must say that this chart looks extra sexy! Awesome work there, KayLo! :bigthumbu


bigman40: No johns.
Wtf? You don't even main Pika. You can't jump in randomly telling me no johns. I admitted that I was wrong, so there was no point in saying it again.


~Mieu
 

Mike G

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you do know that I was Joking right...

I didn't know the term "no johns" was serious business these days lol


and,

"Touche. Too bad I don't check the boards often enough." <----no johns lol

<3 Bigman
 

KuroKitt10

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Thanks. =D

I decided to break from the intervals-of-5 system because the numbering shenanigans we had before were kind of.... confusing and unnecessary.

This way, you can clearly see which MUs are relatively harder than others (as opposed to having like..... 9 MUs at the same 45:55 ratio, for example), but it's still in the ratio format people are familiar with.

If anybody's confused, ignoring the second number in the ratio helps. So instead of reading "52:48," just focus on the 52.
I like the "new" numbering system. It's a good compromise. Though, for presentations sake, it might look a little nicer to simply display the first number, and have small disclaimer saying the second number was left off because it's not necessary and can easily be inferred. Or even just making the first number much larger.

Mew.
 

Alphicans

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Such as?

They aren't up for debate, mind you, I'm just curious.
I don't understand why T.link has any advantage over pika, and I think the pika vs marth match-up could easily be a solid 60-40. I like the MK match-up though, it sums it up pretty well.
 

Wiscus

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This layout and chart are very pretty and clean looking + easy to understand.
Sexy chart Kaylo!
 

[FBC] ESAM

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I don't think you people realize that whatever the ratio says, the MU is still the same as it is...also...charizard is easy lol. If you get them at 0, you can just CG them to 80 with buffering. If not...its more annoying but still easy.
 

KayLo!

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Wow, I must say that this chart looks extra sexy! Awesome work there, KayLo! :bigthumbu
<3 Mike G. Thanks. =D

I like the "new" numbering system. It's a good compromise. Though, for presentations sake, it might look a little nicer to simply display the first number, and have small disclaimer saying the second number was left off because it's not necessary and can easily be inferred.
The problem with that approach is that a) people are easily confused by the unfamiliar, and b) people don't read. You learn these things after making a number of threads on SWF.

I thought about putting only one number and adding a note explaining what it meant, but I guarantee people would still ask, "What do the numbers mean??? How do I read them?!"

This way looks slightly more cluttered but is probably the easiest to understand for the average reader.


This layout and chart are very pretty and clean looking + easy to understand.
Sexy chart Kaylo!
Ty, Wiscus. :)

I don't think you people realize that whatever the ratio says, the MU is still the same as it is...
This.

New numbers don't mean the MUs have changed any, and depending on a number of things (your region, your playstyle, whether you play in a high-, mid-, or low-level metagame, etc.), certain MUs seem easier for some than they do for others.

Think of the numbers as guidelines, not The Law.
 

KuroKitt10

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The problem with that approach is that a) people are easily confused by the unfamiliar, and b) people don't read. You learn these things after making a number of threads on SWF.

I thought about putting only one number and adding a note explaining what it meant, but I guarantee people would still ask, "What do the numbers mean??? How do I read them?!"

This way looks slightly more cluttered but is probably the easiest to understand for the average reader.
If you ask me, the picture should be a simple way of reviewing the information, and it shouldn't be the main way to express it. I think it's reasonable to expect people to read a little, and equally reasonable to be a bit short with those who clearly didn't bother. If someone is so insanely lazy and impatient that they can't be bothered to read a few words after a picture, then that's their own fault, and they aren't the sort of people a presentation should be catered too.

Side note: It might also be nicer if the matchups were ordered from hardest to easiest, rather than in tier order. That's just my personal opinion - When I go to look at a match up chart I don't care so much how Pikachu fares against the top tier (and, that should really be reflected in his tier placement to begin with), but more which characters he's good against, and which are good against him.

Disclaimer: I don't mean to belittle your awesome chart Kaylo, I think it's great! And I really love that you broke from the rigid 5 point system. I'm just throwing some suggestions out there that I think would help improve it and make it great squared =) So no hard feelings <3

Meow!
 

KayLo!

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Fair enough. However:

If you ask me, the picture should be a simple way of reviewing the information, and it shouldn't be the main way to express it. I think it's reasonable to expect people to read a little, and equally reasonable to be a bit short with those who clearly didn't bother. If someone is so insanely lazy and impatient that they can't be bothered to read a few words after a picture, then that's their own fault, and they aren't the sort of people a presentation should be catered too.
This type of attitude doesn't really work on the character boards. The people who will be reading this chart are primarily newer players or people new to this forum, and I would bet you all my savings that most people only look at the picture -- and then read the write-ups for the characters they play against on a regular basis.

Trust me, I used to think people read "a little" too. But like I said, after being on this forum a while and making multiple threads, you learn that people don't. They really don't (in general, not pointing at any Pikas in particular), and it saves us a lot of headache and *facepalm* questions to make things easy to understand from the start.


Side note: It might also be nicer if the matchups were ordered from hardest to easiest, rather than in tier order. That's just my personal opinion - When I go to look at a match up chart I don't care so much how Pikachu fares against the top tier (and, that should really be reflected in his tier placement to begin with), but more which characters he's good against, and which are good against him.
Well, here's the thing. In competitive play, the top/high tiers are the most common, which is why it's beneficial to have them listed first. If we listed the chart from easiest to hardest, it'd be low tiers + Fox/Wolf/Sheik/etc. listed first, but it's very rare that you'll ever face those characters in tournament. Those MUs generally don't matter, tbqh.

Disclaimer: I don't mean to belittle your awesome chart Kaylo, I think it's great! And I really love that you broke from the rigid 5 point system. I'm just throwing some suggestions out there that I think would help improve it and make it great squared =) So no hard feelings <3
It's all good. I appreciate the input, just giving you my reasons for why I did it how I did it. I thought about everything you're bringing up, trust me.... I'll keep it all in mind for next time.
 

Frio

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Ignore Alphicans. For some reason he keeps telling IRL that Pika is better than Marth. I think he's just trying to start stuff >_>

PS: Very nice chart. Not going by 5 was a good choice
 

Pikabunz

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I don't think you people realize that whatever the ratio says, the MU is still the same as it is...also...charizard is easy lol. If you get them at 0, you can just CG them to 80 with buffering. If not...its more annoying but still easy.
You know Charizard can escape the dthrow cg with a footstool right?
 

Razek

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It is a true chain grab if they don't DI it perfect and buffer a jump like snake and his gaynades. Reflex was getting out of it at the Halloween Bash. I am going to test it when my doubles parter comes over to make 100% sure.


So I've tested the charizard CG, it seems that it is possible to buffer a footstool with correct DI. but if they don't footstool after about 30% or so it becomes impossible until 72%.


And I really don't think Marth is as bad as a match-up as you all are saying. Marth can be tough but it's not THAT bad. I think that its more like 45:55. His moves may out range you but they also have lag. Just need to space well, play defensive, and power shield.
 

Frio

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Kaylo is it possible you could put the links to the charcter speicific match up guides in the original post? I'm lost without them :(
 

Alphicans

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It is a true chain grab if they don't DI it perfect and buffer a jump like snake and his gaynades. Reflex was getting out of it at the Halloween Bash. I am going to test it when my doubles parter comes over to make 100% sure.


So I've tested the charizard CG, it seems that it is possible to buffer a footstool with correct DI. but if they don't footstool after about 30% or so it becomes impossible until 72%.


And I really don't think Marth is as bad as a match-up as you all are saying. Marth can be tough but it's not THAT bad. I think that its more like 45:55. His moves may out range you but they also have lag. Just need to space well, play defensive, and power shield.
I 100% agree with the marth portion of this post.
 

KayLo!

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Argh, I hate SWF. Marking posts read that I haven't looked at yet.... almost missed these. ><

And I really don't think Marth is as bad as a match-up as you all are saying. Marth can be tough but it's not THAT bad. I think that its more like 45:55. His moves may out range you but they also have lag. Just need to space well, play defensive, and power shield.
So if he's perfectly spacing SH'd fairs, what do you plan on doing? He'll eat tjolts, and good luck trying to approach through his sword.

The likelihood of that happening for an entire match is low, but in terms of a MU discussion, we're talking pure matchup -- no mindgames, assuming perfect spacing, etc.

I think Marth is a MU where in theory it's harder than it is in practice -- opposite of the Peach MU, which is evenish in theory but can be considerably harder in practice.

Personally, it seems 40:60 to me. *shrug*


Kaylo is it possible you could put the links to the charcter speicific match up guides in the original post? I'm lost without them :(
Yeah, I'll do that soon. The other character MU OP is still on the first page, btw, and that has all the char-specific links in it.

Most of them are grossly outdated, though.
 

Razek

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From KayLo!:
So if he's perfectly spacing SH'd fairs, what do you plan on doing? He'll eat tjolts, and good luck trying to approach through his sword.

The likelihood of that happening for an entire match is low, but in terms of a MU discussion, we're talking pure matchup -- no mindgames, assuming perfect spacing, etc.

I think Marth is a MU where in theory it's harder than it is in practice -- opposite of the Peach MU, which is evenish in theory but can be considerably harder in practice.

Personally, it seems 40:60 to me. *shrug*


If marth swings a sword and you power shield it you'll have frame advantage. You have a projectile on him. Marth has lag in most of his attacks. So in theory all you have to do is t-jolt until he approaches and then power shield one little sword and you get free dmg because the power shield gives you a frame advantage on the marth. On the ledge pikachu is one of, if not THE safest character. Marth simple can not combat you there so if he does push you back just retreat for the time being.

In my mind with no mindgames, assuming perfect spacing, etc. Even if Marth has perfect spacing he has no control over the pikachu perfect spacing with a shield. Pikachu has an advantage on the ledge. Pikachu has some nice damage combos till about 55 with forward throw. Marth does out range us and packs more killing power to boot, but he is in no way our worst match up. With the whole perfect spacing theory then MK would by FAR be a harder fight because if MK is spacing perfect and there is no mind games then he could be perfectly safe at all times, because he, unlike Marth, has several options that have no lag, out range us. And is the only character that makes pikachu worry off the ledge.

Me vs Chaz
(Chaz being a Marth main and a florida PR who has Esam practice.)
Enjoy My first posted video!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40fleij_3s4

 
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