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Midwest-West Stage discussion: Lylat

Distant Planet legality

  • Yes, make it a counterpick

    Votes: 5 33.3%
  • No, keep it where it is.

    Votes: 10 66.7%

  • Total voters
    15
  • Poll closed .

fragbait

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 12, 2007
Messages
4,230
Location
Over the skies of Emeria.
Hey everyone. Most of you won't know me, but I'm Fragbait from KS. I've recently become interested in running tournaments, as our normal TO, The Real Inferno, has stepped down.

In doing some preliminary research in Midwest tourneys, I've found that there are two major gripes. One of these gripes will be addressed here.

Stagelist. Yes, everyone's second favorite argument.

The intent of this thread is to get a majority consensus on which stages should, and should not be allowed, in future tournaments.

As it stood after NO KOAST, here's the stagelist, copied from the Midwest-West thread.

Neutral Stages:

- Battlefield
- Final Destination
- Yoshi's Island
- Pokemon Stadium 1
- Smashville

Counterpicks:

-Lylat Cruise
-Delphino Plaza
-Halberd
-Norfair
-Frigate Orpheon
-Pokemon Stadium 2
-Castle Siege
-PictoChat
-Jungle Japes
-Rainbow Cruise
-Brinstar


Here's my proposal.
Send me a PM with a stage you would like moved to 1 spot either up or down. This means

Ban moves to Counter Pick
Counter Pick moves to Neutral

And the same applies in Reverse

I would like to structure this similarly to Match up discussion in the Character thread, if we could.

Let's keep it clean guys, here's some ground rules.

1) No flaming or personal attacks will be tolerated. I won't have this thread derailed by it. I won't hesitate to report anyone. If this means losing tourney attendance, so be it.
2) Everyone's opinion is equal. Yes, that means Lain's/M2K/Other major player's word is as good as someone's who's never made it out of pools. If you can't handle it, don't post. Simple.
3) Keep thoughts organized, easy to read. No posts just to say "I agree with XXX post." If you have to reply to a post, make it either a supporting point or a counterpoint.
4) PM me proposals. I don't want someone insulted for wanting a stage moved.
5) Stages will only be moved one tier per discussion, with exceptions for heavy majority. There will be no set number on "Heavy" majority. I will try to use my best judgment on this one, but a rough estimate will be more than 80% vote one way.
6) Participation in this discussion is limited to
a)Midwest-West residents
b) Attendees of Midwest-West events

7)Please structure posts in this format for ease of navigation

A) Your position (Yes/No)
B) Supporting Details
C) TL;DR version (summarize)


At the end of a few days, or until it seems no new arguments are being made, I'll open it to a vote. The vote, ultimately will determine if a stage stays or goes.
These discussions will only take effect at the next tournament to the last discussion.

If a stage's status is not challenged before the next tournament, it will remain at it's spot. No exceptions.


I hope you will all look past the fact that I have little to no credibility at this point, and are willing to try this new system. Thank you, and happy debate!
~[EFUJ] Fragbait
 

fragbait

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 12, 2007
Messages
4,230
Location
Over the skies of Emeria.
CURRENT DISCUSSION
Lylat Cruise

Fox, Falco, and Wolf all call this game world home. With 3 top platforms and a slightly slanted bottom platform, and a constantly moving , this stage can cause some problems for inexperienced players.

A passed vote in this case will move Lylat Cruise from CounterPick to Neutral

Remember the rules, guys!

PAST RESULTS
Distant Planet

RESULT: No change
 

Trent

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
2,305
Location
New York, NY
Honestly never played on Distant Planet in a tourney before, so have no clue about it.
 

chewyy

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
763
Location
Springfield, Illinois
It might be smarter to start with a more common or controversial stage so that people will post/subscribe. Personally, I see distant planet and I want to ignore this thread.
 

fragbait

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 12, 2007
Messages
4,230
Location
Over the skies of Emeria.
The only reason I started with DPlanet is because it was the first stage PMed to me. I'll be closing that discussion in a day or two, after we get some opinion here.
For the record, I have a list of 4 more stages already for discussion.
 

The Real Inferno

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
5,506
Location
Wichita, KS
You probably shouldn't be holding votes for this right now, but really I think if we just drop Norfair from the old list, any other complaints are probably just by people who suck on counterpicks.
 

bobson

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 28, 2008
Messages
1,674
Distant Planet is an obviously fine stage. Why it's banned anywhere is beyond me.

The common "argument" for banning the stage is because King Dedede can just camp and chaingrab you off the left side. Here's why this is wrong: first, he has to get a percent or stock advantage, or he's just dooming himself. Second, out of the 27 people he can chaingrab, 19 of them have some type of projectile they can camp him with if he does decide to camp. So that's 8 matchups it might actually effect. Third, in those 8 (out of something like 1600 possible) matchups, involving DK, Bowser, Ganon, Ike, Marth, Wario, Sonic, and Captain Falcon, 2 are infinited by him already, 2 are almost guaranteed to lose anyway, 2 have the range to compete with grab camping, and the other 2 have unnaturally powerful means of getting around and projectiles that, while not great, will still put the camper at a disadvantage. Fourth, it frequently rains, during which you cannot possibly grab camp the left side. Fifth, camping on the left side puts you at a disadvantage in the first place by being very close to the blastlines. Sixth, the stage itself gives you projectiles to throw at him if you're desperate.

So, in a total of 8 matchups, 4 of which are largely already pre-determined on the character selection screen, King Dedede can place himself in an inherently riskier position, and, if he has a percent/stock advantage, can camp there, except when it rains and he can't, and, risking projectiles which the stage gives to the other player, possibly chaingrab those characters off the side for a stock, if he's facing the right way when he grabs.
I think that's something we can stomach.
 

MJG

Smash Hero
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Messages
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Distant planet is Auto Win for some characters IMO (Definitely Yoshi's playground)

I dont mind it but all I will do is camp and I dont like to camp unless i have to due to me getting ***** at CQC
 

fragbait

Smash Master
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Messages
4,230
Location
Over the skies of Emeria.
You probably shouldn't be holding votes for this right now, but really I think if we just drop Norfair from the old list, any other complaints are probably just by people who suck on counterpicks.
Reason I'm doing this now is so we have a chance to run through any and all stages that MW-W has gripes about before the first event. Besides, my policy is learning by experience, and nothing is a better lesson than being gayed on the very stage you thought was a good one ;)
 

bobson

Smash Lord
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Messages
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Distant planet is Auto Win for some characters IMO (Definitely Yoshi's playground)

I dont mind it but all I will do is camp and I dont like to camp unless i have to due to me getting ***** at CQC
It would be helpful if you backed this up at all. Who are these characters it's an "auto win" for, and why are they unbeatable? How can you camp the entire time?

Yoshi? Seriously? He can sort of egg camp the bit under the platform to the left if you are Ganondorf or some similarly terrible character and some of his chaingrabs still work up the slope. Big deal.
 

fragbait

Smash Master
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It would be helpful if you backed this up at all. Who are these characters it's an "auto win" for, and why are they unbeatable? How can you camp the entire time?

Yoshi? Seriously? He can sort of egg camp the bit under the platform to the left if you are Ganondorf or some similarly terrible character and some of his chaingrabs still work up the slope. Big deal.
Most of this post is Okay, but some is borderline flaming. Please be careful, I want to keep this civilized.
 

DotHack

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
Messages
189
To keep it on topic, I'll just go ahead and say I've never really understood why distant planet was banned. It's a pretty good stage overall and has no major flaws. Just a bunch of tiny ones, which really....comparing to say...Melee Pokefloats? Distant Planet should definitely be allowed. >_>
 

fragbait

Smash Master
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Why the **** do we need another one of these topics?

I hate the midwest sometimes....
Because we need a change, that's why. I wanted to give you guys the most control possible over the environment you will play in. I think it's a lot better than one guy controlling it all, as I've always believed that the Players should have the highest possible level of control over their game.

Voting starts soon on Distant Planet guys, please get your final thoughts in.
 

TheKiest

Smash Champion
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Worthington, Ohio
While in theory this seems like a good idea, but the problem with these polls is that ANYONE can vote: even those who wouldn't go to our tournaments.

All the tournaments I run are SBR legal (except in the Circuit Director says other wise).

I did vote btw, heh.
 

fragbait

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Messages
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Over the skies of Emeria.
While in theory this seems like a good idea, but the problem with these polls is that ANYONE can vote: even those who wouldn't go to our tournaments.

All the tournaments I run are SBR legal (except in the Circuit Director says other wise).

I did vote btw, heh.
I can see who voted and I'll eliminate the votes that are not this region.

As per some requests, though, I may be changing the format of this.
 

MJG

Smash Hero
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It would be helpful if you backed this up at all. Who are these characters it's an "auto win" for, and why are they unbeatable? How can you camp the entire time?

Yoshi? Seriously? He can sort of egg camp the bit under the platform to the left if you are Ganondorf or some similarly terrible character and some of his chaingrabs still work up the slope. Big deal.
Sorry i responded to this so late

But play a good yoshi on this stage and then tell me who you feel afterwards. There is more to this stage than just egg camping XD.

What stage are we discussing next?
 

fragbait

Smash Master
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Messages
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Over the skies of Emeria.
Sorry i responded to this so late

But play a good yoshi on this stage and then tell me who you feel afterwards. There is more to this stage than just egg camping XD.

What stage are we discussing next?
Lylat Cruise, moved from CounterPick to Neutral.
Please spread the word about this thread to your main TOs in your region, everyone.
 

bobson

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
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This thread's going as well as I thought it would. A couple randoms say what they think about the stages with maybe one or two good points overall and then a bunch of *******s ride in for the vote and vote on whether they like or don't like the stage without paying any attention to the thread. I just hope nobody takes it seriously.

Lylat for neutral. Ledge problems are nothing but inexperience johns. Not gonna waste my time with an in-depth explanation that'll be ignored.

But play a good yoshi on this stage and then tell me who you feel afterwards. There is more to this stage than just egg camping XD.
This means nothing. Compare "you'll know why FD should be banned when you play a good Diddy there." If the broken aspect of the stage cannot be explained in objective terms, it's almost definitely not really broken.
 

fragbait

Smash Master
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Messages
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Over the skies of Emeria.
So you're saying that if a large majority of the people vote for Lylat to stay where it is, it'll be banned?

Hooray for logic.
Not at all, although I understand where you are coming from. The original idea was if a major number votes one way it would be moved down, but that doesn't make much sense now that I think about it. Forget that part.
 

MJG

Smash Hero
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This thread's going as well as I thought it would. A couple randoms say what they think about the stages with maybe one or two good points overall and then a bunch of *******s ride in for the vote and vote on whether they like or don't like the stage without paying any attention to the thread. I just hope nobody takes it seriously.

Lylat for neutral. Ledge problems are nothing but inexperience johns. Not gonna waste my time with an in-depth explanation that'll be ignored.



This means nothing. Compare "you'll know why FD should be banned when you play a good Diddy there." If the broken aspect of the stage cannot be explained in objective terms, it's almost definitely not really broken.
What do you say to diddy on a stage like mansion then? or even snake? its legal in some areas in the midwest unfortunately >_>..ill probably just stop respoding after this because i can see this lashing out to an argument.

Lylat Cruise is not a terrible stage IMO. It messes up some aspects for certain characters but thats why it is a counter pick after all...
 
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