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Weekly Matchup Discussion - Mr. Game & Watch

DtJ Hilt

Little Lizard
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Mr. Game & Watch


Really... don't know what to say about Game and Watch >.>. This is a character that's rarely brought up to discussion. Most of what GW does is well known to everyone and is very basic, although he does have a few tricks that are difficult for us to deal with. However, does this mean that we shouldn't have a hard time with him? Is it really as simple as people are making it out to be? Is this discussion just a waste of time? :p

So, with that said:

DISCUSS!
 

Tin Man

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1st post :bee:

Long range: We win cause we can out camp him, forcing him to approach

Medium range: We still win with our grab range, F smash, spam

Short range: G&W wins, grab -> Dthrow -> Dsmash works if we don't tech. G&W Bair out prioritizes anything we have (not our upB) and eats our tiny sheild away. G&W can easily gimp us.

G&W advantages: G&W is overall faster, on the ground an in the air. We won't keep him away forever. His U air can work wonders against us.

Olimar advantages: Pivot grab all G&W's aerial approaches, his ground approaches aren't that amazing.

In the Air: G&W wins, Whistling doesn't work vs Bair, and he can Uair juggle us. Has superior air speed, and we have no momentum shift moves, therefore we can virtually not escape it.
 

Dabuz

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the only thing that i find noteworthy enouugh to talk about in this matchup is, now that G&W can up-b after the bair before we can punish OOS, how can we punish his up-b quickly enough OOS?
 

IcyLight

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you can SDI downwards and smash him through his bair, as long as you do it before the last hit comes out.
 

Sky Pirate

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So G&W has predictable moves and few good tricks. So why is this matchup usually called at almost even?
If it's such a simple matchup, why isn't it incredibly skewed in our favor?
 

DanGR

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I usually just SDI up and out of the turtle. I'll have to try DIing down (into a dsmash I suppose? Jab maybe?), Icylight.

Also, don't focus on punishing the turtle, guys. Focus on preventing it from hitting your shield in the first place. That means pivotgrabbing it if they space it incorrectly, or if you're REALLY confident in your ability to DI out of if, even jumping straight into it could work in your favor. Then you can immediately begin to DI up and out into a nair or something.

Dabuz, I haven't actually tried this yet, but against turtle->upb would jumping [back] out of shield-> upb be a good way to punish it? I suppose it really just depends on which way they upb. If they space the turtle really well and upb straight out and away from you, you may be able to jump at them and do it. *shrugs*
 

Noa.

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A way to punish G&W's bair to parachute is jumping OoS and into the draft that sends you upward. Of course, you have to space very well so that you don't get hit by the hitbox and still get drawn up by the draft. G&W has invincibility frames during upB, but at the peak and while he's taking out the parachute you can use an aerial on him, depending on spacing.

Punishing bair in general. Depends on the variation. You shouldn't try to shield it and should try pivot grabbing it or jumping into it and SDIing it to punish. If he full hops the bair, after it leaves your shield shorthop and uair.

When it comes to camping, if you shorhop camp, G&W might be able to dtilt the pikmin before the pikmin hit him due to spacing. Just make sure to aim a little higher and for his head if he's using dtilt. G&W can handle pikmin traveling to his head by using nair, but then his underside is vulnerable. G&W can handle pikmin, but switching your aiming often you'll be able to get some damage on him with it.

When you're in close range, G&W's fastest option is jab, which is 4 frames, the same as ours. Jab is you think he isn't going to shield.

Something I've been wondering. ZSS's jab is shield grabbable if they do the full jab, just like ours. But G&W can't shieldgrab their full grab, due to weight, size and etc. I'm wondering if G&W is also vulnerable to our full jab.

To tech the dthrow, shield right after the beep that G&W's produces when he slams you. Or when you're reaching the last frame where you're shrunken. The shield button has to be hit right before you hit the ground, but you should be able to predict it since it takes a while for G&W to actually throw. Practice it a little. I can tech G&W's dthrow with most characters since I'm so good at it. =p

I'll post some more later, but this is in Oli's favor imo. I've played this matchup on both sides, and G&W's approaches are extremely limited in this matchup.
 

Fino

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the only thing that i find noteworthy enouugh to talk about in this matchup is, now that G&W can up-b after the bair before we can punish OOS, how can we punish his up-b quickly enough OOS?
If you know he's going to do it... just jump up (towards him) and uair
eats our tiny sheild away.
Olimar has one of the best shields in the game iirc
I usually just SDI up and out of the turtle.

Also, don't focus on punishing the turtle, guys. Focus on preventing it from hitting your shield in the first place. That means pivotgrabbing it if they space it incorrectly, or if you're REALLY confident in your ability to DI out of if, even jumping straight into it could work in your favor.
THIS THIS THIS a million times THIS. Having problems with the turtle... 3 options
1) if he spaces it high, you aren't going to be able to pivot grab... beat this with fsmash
2) if he spaces it low, you aren't going to be able to fsmash him... beat this with fsmash
3) let him hit you, di into it so that you pop above him - Nair + c-stick. I didn't this hundreds of times against UTD
if he bair's when he's about 80%... just let it hit you - lol
*insert MU discussion face **** here*
Good job draco :D


~Fino
 

Noa.

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Lol, thanks Fino. I've actually played this matchup only a handful of times, but I studied it extensively as a G&W main since it's so difficult for G&W. x.x

G&W isn't too hard a character to deconstruct. Despite what the G&W boards say. >.>
 

IcyLight

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i used to vs. OBM a lot in my region before he went inactive, and all i would do is not get hit by bair and tech his dthrow and i had no problems with anything G&W could do. spamming pivot grabs really destroys gnw, and try to bring him to yoshis it's my favorite stage to fight gnw on


can you utilt through his bair?
 

IcyLight

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always save double jump and whistle as you jump towards the edge, his dtilt will destroy you if you don't, and try to use quick tethered WAC into nair as your recovery option, but not too predictable

quick tether > jump > whistle > nair > smash/utilt/run away

you just want to stay away from him, don't focus so much on sideb in this matchup, just like the mk matchup. he has too many moves to get rid of it too quickly, and his priority is crazy. just use it when you know you will be safe or sniping a white, or combos with purp :p
 

Noa.

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Fair and UpB are other edgeguarding options G&W has. If you see G&W positioning himself under you then just be wary of UpB. It's pretty telegraphed though. When G&W is approacing you horizontally or diagonally he'll probably use fair. Fair kills early offstage, but only when they sweetspot it, which is within the first few frames.

I played a G&W yesterday. Pivot grab just ***** G&W. Really badly. If he dairs, pivot grab. If he bairs pivot grab. Ground approaches are easy to deal with.

Use jab when he's near so that he can't use smashes. If you see him charging a smash, just wait for it to end, or just run in and shield.
 

Noa.

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Basically.

All we need to do now is determine a ratio.

I say that Olimar has a solid advantage against G&W. Oli has consistent answers to all of G&W's options, but G&W can win if he knows the matchup and stays patient for openings. There isn't much G&W can do, but it's not a **** matchup.
 

MJG

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Wow..Olimar match up discussions are so much more productive than the TL boards.

Pivot Grab is useful in this match up.

Noa/Fino covered mostly everything..

GnW's move-set is pretty telegraphed.

After a certain percent for toonlink, GnW cannot down smash toonlink after a down throw. Is this the same case with olimar? If so, then you might want to tech his down throw as icy stated earlier (I usually just get up and use U-tilt/Bair); you might even want to get ready to use your c stick if the GnW tech chases you. I usually press "A" to jab in order to prevent getting Up Smashed, but I think olimar's jab would get severely punished by GnW's Up Smash..

I think battlefield would be pretty even for both olimar and GnW in this match up seeing as how you can hit GnW easily when he is on the platform and GnW has his Nair combo's when you are standing on the platform.

I know some of you are comfortable with playing on RC, but I would recommend banning it against Olimar. Frigate isn't too bad of a stage to play GnW on..Stay on the left side of the beginning transformation and control the middle of the second transformation.

A big stage that would allow you to spam Side - B would be ideal in this match up ;o

<3 you all.

EDIT: GnW's Dair will out range olimar's up air (Im sure you all knew this), unless you hit him at a certain angle but that is still very hard.
 

Noa.

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Fino's best friend Tink is right. Except for misspelling my name. >.>

How can it be in G&W's favor? The only advantages that I see here are his gimping, not too bad since he doesn't have too many options when it comes to gimping, his tech chase, which is easy to get around, and his juggle game, which is only useful for refreshing his moves, and is not too damaging.

Both of the characters close range games are medicore at best.

Olimar outcamps G&W. We kill him earlier since if you play safely, G&W has an incredibly difficult time killing. G&W doesn't have any solid approach options.

What more could you want from a matchup so that it's advantageous?
 

Noa.

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I agree with Icy. The Tink:Oli matchup certainly isn't bad at all. 55:45 Oli. Tink is fast enough and the projectiles present enough to make it evenish.
 

Dabuz

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don't fall for the trap to discuss an irrelevant and unimportant matchup yet... we will discuss toonlink last, wario is more important :mad:
 

Fino

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don't fall for the trap to discuss an irrelevant and unimportant matchup yet... we will discuss toonlink last, wario is more important :mad:
dang
u mad?????
daaaaannnngg
wario is so easy to fight dabuz, you have trouble with him?
daaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnggg

Yeah, wario is pretty straight forward imo. TL has a lot more to discuss than wario.


Wario MU:
Is wario attacking?
yes- utilt
no: Is he near you?
yes- utilt
no- throw pikmin

Did you hit him with utilt?
no- do it again
yes: profit


~Fino
 

IcyLight

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i just spam pivot grab like it's the gnw mu, it's pretty much the same thing but replace gnw bair with wario dair. oh an you can grab him off his bike LAWLZ
 

Dabuz

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ok, we discussed generic easy aggressive wario, now lets discuss super careful camping wario that stops all side b damage and stalls a match for as long as they want (AKA, stall till fart build up, get one lucky random move off, fart while oli is in air for 30-40%+possible kill)
 

MJG

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you still dont have to approach...you know that wario players like to use their second jump. they also like to air dodge into the ground (that might be hard to punish considering he has one of the best air dodges in the game). Your character can handle wario way easier than mine >_>
 

IcyLight

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dabuz, you aren't supposed to let wario camp you that long. you play a pretty defensive olimar, me always being super aggressive i can usually approach him pretty well with some fox trot pivot grabs and stuff, my problem is i don't camp enough :-D just be really cautious in this mu, try to chose mid size stages like BF so they can't camp you too badly, and they can't approach either. i like to bring wario to brinstar, bf, or fd usually. im sure halberd will work too
 
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