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The Mario Rediscussion Thread. Currently Rediscussing: Diddy Kong

A2ZOMG

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he multiple kill moves that aren't hard to hit especially his Utilt.
He has multiple moves that only kill if fresh, or are very situational. He's pretty bad at consistently KOing at respectable percents. The only thing making him good is his grab game, which only does massive damage, and doesn't actually kill, not to mention his good edgeguard options, but if you don't get gimped and just learn to avoid certain things, he has no real way of killing you early.

It's an amazing kill move that's fast and can kill very easily.
DDD's U-tilt is easily avoided. He can only use it at very specific angles and he has to be on the ground. It's not even that spectacularly fast at frame 12. If you're getting hit by this move consistently, you need to work on your spacing.

He also has fair to kill and his I'm not 100% sure of his smashes.
F-air only kills if fresh, and is avoidable on reaction. His Smashes are also all avoidable on reaction, and generally quite punishable.

Also remember that Dedede is extremely heavy (I believe he's 2nd behind Bowser and yes that includes vertical KOs) and can rack up insane damage. A bair can do 13%, his Bthrow can do 16%, and his CG will rack up quite a bit. Luckily we can outcamp him though it's not easy. His waddles can be a pain.
DDD's weight and Mario's relatively low KO power is really the only reason he has a significant advantage, because it takes much longer for Mario to kill him, and most of the time you have to be playing really campy and conservatively. DDD is in fact the heaviest character vertically.

Yeah...you can't screw around with getting back on the stage. That match should have been **** in favor of Mario. I like the use of upB.
Play Balanced Brawl and kill DDD at 128% with Up-smash or at 123% with D-smash. =P
 

Matador

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bclsPf1IAuM

fyi t'was a friendly

and wall of bairs is mad gay.

upb > utilt.
You played that fantastically. That Bair thing second stock was silly though :laugh:

Really, just watch for the bair edgeguard, space well, fireball at safe distances, and know the Utilt KO percentages.

D3 has a few wildcards like the inhale release -> Utilt and Dthow CG -> DA, but in general, you can avoid most of his shiz with proper spacing and knowledge of the match-up. I've seen Boss **** this match-up first-hand and have done it a few times myself.

YI is decent for this match-up as Hippy's vid demonstrated. UpB's safer because of the platform, and the sides make Fsmash/Dsmash better for KOs. The high ceiling allows you to live a tad longer from Utilt as well, so the whole weight difference makes a little less of an impact.

Also, don't do things that grabs can obviously punish. Don't run directly at D3, don't hit his shield, don't be predictable.
 

mars16

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King D3

I treat D3 like he's just another Bowser with Projectile,

More fireballs and reflcting his weedle De's

What makes harder then Bowser is his Range and......stuff

His Weight...Mario's low killing Power

Also the chain grab stuff
 

Big-Omar

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Wi-Fi D3s suck ballz. I 2 stocked one and took out his first stock without taking damage. I make the Match up seem 60:40 Mario on Wi-Fi.....

But in all serious bussiness, space well, never approach, and camp like a *****. CP him to either brinstar or Lylat. And be SURE to strike/ban FD (duh lol).
 

Javon89

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Same as ICs, Don't get grabbed?

I had this idea where you pressure him offstage with Nair, plus in the air he's easy to hit cause I personally think his air-speed is pretty slow.
 

Inferno3044

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OK. I'm gonna tell you guys how to fight him in a really simple manner. Start out by doing massive fireballs to approach. There are some things that are really good about fireballs especially against Dedede. One is that they have a good speed for you to follow them which is something characters like Falco and Pit can't do. Second is that it forces some sort of reaction. It can be him shielding, hitting it, getting hit by it, it doesn't matter. It's something that he's will have lag on. While making an opening use things like ftilt, utilt, dthrow, etc to get him open and preferably above you. Once he's above you, stay in and don't leave. Comboing properly can definitely get him to at least 60% with one long string of hits. Now unfortunately, he has some things that can stop us from starting combos like inhale, his broken bair, or his broken grab range. On top of that, his waddles can hinder our fireballs a bit, but not enough to stop them of course. Remember that Mario is so much incredibly faster than D3. Once he gets in, he is gonna stay in for a bit. A piece of advice for this MU is don't rely on your shield. If you shield and he doesn't land a hit on you, he gets a free grab. If you see an attack coming then PS it and punish but don't use it at any other time on this character. Getting a reliable kill move on this guy will be a pain. You can get punished for not perfectly spacing Fsmash and his extremely heavy weight will stop Usmash KOs. He can easily get KOs on you though and at low percents.

I still think this is 60:40 Dedede. On the other hand about MUs, he says that he goes even or actually beats Lucario. I'm a little tentative about him winning right now, but I can agree with even.
 

Pr0phetic

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I don't seem to have much problem with fireballs as DeDeDe's Bair can handle them RAR'd and OoS.
DeDede's best attributes are obviously:

- Weight
- Gimping ability (Mario can be seriously screwed with something as simple as a Fthrow --> Bair)
- CG

Mario wins on the ground with his speed, but will get beat in the air due to d3 having a superior aerial. Combos from Mario are a *****, but DIing up helps that.

60:40 D3, don't mind debating/answering questions! Btw, I was really rusty in that vid, no johns but Wi-Fi conversion lol
 

Big-Omar

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Well, no one has posted since the last few days... So Im guessing we're just about done.

60:40 D3 IMO


Wi-Fi- 60:40 Big-O's Mario LOL
 

HeroMystic

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I'm still not sure how it's 60:40, but I guess I'll just have to get better at the match-up to find out.

Peach knowledge is limited, but Up-B OOS on her D-air works well. They can space with F-air though.
 

A2ZOMG

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You can camp her, Up-smash/Up-B beat most of her aerial approaches (save Up-smash for kills, and try to get off sliding Up-smashes too when she jumps), F-smash outranges her, Jab D-smash is a legit combo on her, I think it's a fine matchup honestly.
 

mars16

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What annoy's me the most is when she starts floating and downing her High priority aerial attacks

But yea up B works
 

A2ZOMG

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Fighting Peach is like fighting Marth a lil bit imo.
Now that I think about it...I kinda can see the parallels.

The main difference is Peach is better offstage, while she's easier to handle on stage. Mario combos her a lot more effectively and can trap her into juggles more easily, while on the other hand...you really aren't going to gimp her.
 

Big-Omar

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From my experiences, Yoshi's Island is the best nuetral to fight Peach on. Idk why, but its probably cus of the platform.
 
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Now that I think about it...I kinda can see the parallels.

The main difference is Peach is better offstage, while she's easier to handle on stage. Mario combos her a lot more effectively and can trap her into juggles more easily, while on the other hand...you really aren't going to gimp her.
She can go aggressive or defensive w/ her spacing when she's on stage and we really have to keep up w/ her to maintain to beat her. Peach is too difficult to gimp w/ Mario. We have a slight chance of spiking if we're lucky enough to do it. SRRY FOR DOUBLE POSTING, crap -____-
 

A2ZOMG

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Yeah, let's do someone other than Peach.

I'd say Falco...that one is actually driving me nuts.
 

A2ZOMG

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Guys, I actually need serious help against Falco.

DEHF kicked my butt in tournament, and the playstyle my friend uses for his Falco is REALLY driving me insane.
 

Sleek Media

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Falco doesn't seem complicated. You can upB out of the chaingrab, and FLUDD/cape is extremely dangerous to his recovery. Just control lasers with the cape, and force him to make mistakes.
 

Matt07

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I'd say Dedede vs Mario is 65:35.

I say we do Falco next. We discussed Peach quite a few times, and recentley discussed her.
 

BSP

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For me, the hardest thing about falco is his up close game, He can jab and pretty much negate anything you were about to do (except spaced fsmash). And if you shield, you get CG'd or put into a bad position. He can reflect fireballs, and getting shieldgrabbed is pretty dangerous. I think your best bet is to space bairs, and dair and jump away.

Peach at 60/40 sounds about right.
 
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DDD still ***** Mario, I'll say 65/35. We can leave Peach alone. I'll talk about Falco. Yeah, he's gonna try to outcamp us, we can duck or cape his lazers. Falco, like Fox and Wolf, we have to approach and we can juggle him. If he tries to jab, we can up-b out of it. Falco is predictable when he tries to recover which is somewhat easy to gimp him. Mariobrouser is right. Space w/ b-air and d-air and don't forget the cape, we have to space w/ the cape.
 
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