PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

How do you guys respond in the Falco ditto when there's a sort of "laser stalemate" in which both falcos can put out a laser, thus forcing both falcos to deal with the laser? Is the optimal thing to do just lasering toward each other until other options come into play or is there another route some of you might have found? I realize you can go to the platforms but that seems like a weaker position if the other falco is just patient and takes center stage

I know falcos often full jump double laser on FD to avoid the SHL and establish their own, but the scenario i'm thinking of is one that happens with some regularity on Dreamland

oliman said:

How do you guys respond in the Falco ditto when there's a sort of "laser stalemate" in which both falcos can put out a laser, thus forcing both falcos to deal with the laser? Is the optimal thing to do just lasering toward each other until other options come into play or is there another route some of you might have found? I realize you can go to the platforms but that seems like a weaker position if the other falco is just patient and takes center stage

I know falcos often full jump double laser on FD to avoid the SHL and establish their own, but the scenario i'm thinking of is one that happens with some regularity on Dreamland

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If we're talking about Dreamland, I personally think taking to a platform is fine. You have plenty of time to respond if the other Falco tries to approach you, and I even think that the upper Falco has an advantage if the game is neutral. I say so because it's quite easy to jump off of a platform and approach with an L-Canceled nair or dair. If that opportunity is missed, you could shield drop through the platform and jump back up in order to catch your opponent with a shine of your own.

Stride said:

You can't shine during jumpsquat. You input the shine on the last frame of jumpsquat since inputs take effect the frame after they are made, but the shine doesn't cancel the jumpsquat; it interrupts your upwards velocity from the jump so you end up falling from very close to the ground (i.e. you are not grounded for the shine).

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Yeah i know, just didnt want to make him think that falco has to be visibly in the air for the shine :v

But yeah thats the elaborated /correct answer.

oos grounded shine is done by inputting the shine on the first airborne frame of the jump, the same way a double shine is input. you leave the ground then return to it before you are able to act again (3 frames? idk check the double shine frame data sticky). In Regards to which is more optimal, it depends on the situation. The grounded shine oos is safer if you're facing tight shield pressure because it is out the fastest, the non grounded shine is safer during weak shield pressure or if you want to double jump to a platform. both are fine to do, the latter will be more consistent because you won't input the shine during jumpsquat as much.

In terms of laser control during falco dittos, if you're trading lasers that's fine. If you don't want to, you can full dump double laser fast fall (covers top and side platforms) and then dropdown laser (covers the stage). However, I would recommend learning to powershield and wavedash oos because those options don't lose you any stage control.

oliman said:

How do you guys respond in the Falco ditto when there's a sort of "laser stalemate" in which both falcos can put out a laser, thus forcing both falcos to deal with the laser? Is the optimal thing to do just lasering toward each other until other options come into play or is there another route some of you might have found? I realize you can go to the platforms but that seems like a weaker position if the other falco is just patient and takes center stage

I know falcos often full jump double laser on FD to avoid the SHL and establish their own, but the scenario i'm thinking of is one that happens with some regularity on Dreamland

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This is something I've really wanted to talk about with Falco's irl because this is where I feel the Falco is underdeveloped to a massive degree. imo, play footsies. Stop shooting lasers. Play the other person instead trying to top tier your way to victory. The problem with this is Falco's don't play footsies. They seem to have no idea how to play neutral without literally pulling the trigger. I hate the ditto for the most part because it reaches this situation and I start to feel like the other person isn't playing me. They seem to bullheadedly press their buttons instead of interacting with the person sitting next to them. A majority of the Falcos I've played will reach this situation and be completely stumped when I stop lasering and let them approach. Their only answer to footsie situations is to hadouken rofl when I see a Falco shoot lasers when someone's on a platform, they look stupid. You shooting lasers does nothing but commit to something without reason. Stay on the ground. Position to bait things. Position to make it hard for the other Falco to laser, so you have a nair in his face when he tries to laser you! If they're really so bullheaded to only shoot lasers, take to plat and hang out. Let them be dumb shooting lasers below you. Falco doesn't have anything that's truly safe on another Falco on plat, as long as you know your OoS options coughmovementcough when you see an opportunity to land, do so in a way such that you have as much stage as possible (sometimes you do get boxed into corners. deal with it) and either with a landing laser or slick movement to punish any attempted lasers. You can also continue to eat/shoot lasers, but I'm not into colonial era warfare myself.


@ Stalled sometimes sacrificing stage is the way to go. Once you've won stage in any given situation, you can use it to retreat and let the other person whiff for a whiff punish. I often see Falco's choose to whiff punish with lasers which makes no sense. Yeah it's "safe" but the risk/reward is so much more in your favor if you actually practice tightening up your spacing and dashdance game and getting say a Sheik to whiff an ftilt and punishing with a shine or dair over some safe lasers or a grab.

tl;dr work on movement, not pewpewing ftw

I sense a FALCO CHALLENGE:

For the next couple of weeks everyone should try playing without lasers at all and see what you learn!

I've tried doing this a couple of times and once I got past the routine shooting and the compulsion to laser, I started to feel situations where "damn, a laser would be absolutely perfect at this specific spacing".

I already did that to work on footsies.
Then i threw out a laser when someone was falling, and / or wanted to stop their DD
Slowly my laser game got way better and footsies + spacing greatly improoved.
Plus they dont know what you are gonna do if you Sh, compared to shooting a laser every sh.
Do that, it really helps

In addition to trying out minimal lasers, pressuring shields with minimal hitboxes is a good exercise too. Kinda makes you realize how much bigger and exploitable pressure situations are when you trust that they're scared over having to keep the most frame tight pressure on them. Getting them in shield (however that may be) then pressuring and covering options with DD is really fun and it seems pretty good as a mixup. It's hard for people to beat it once their shield's up and you're familiar with their oos options

Hubkun said:

I already did that to work on footsies.
Then i threw out a laser when someone was falling, and / or wanted to stop their DD
Slowly my laser game got way better and footsies + spacing greatly improoved.
Plus they dont know what you are gonna do if you Sh, compared to shooting a laser every sh.
Do that, it really helps

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My question to you is if you're putting the laser out to hit them as they're falling, why not hit them with, say, a nair instead? I'll do this and string nairs/fairs together (fair is SUPER disjointed btw) which gets me a lot more than a single laser or laser grab.

I wrote a thing. Beware, this is long as **** and pretty rambly but bare with it and call me a fraud if you feel like it. Was prompted by a reddit post asking to explain lasers then it got out of control. Straight copy pasted.



Lasers are super deep and hard to fully understand. I don't fully understand 100% of their utility, but I have a pretty good idea of what roles they play. Lasers force you (the person having lasers shot at them) to either approach to beat the laser coming out, eat the laser and take percent, shield, jump, roll, spotdodge, or go to ledge. Beating the laser can be hard to do (but isn't always possible). When a Falco shoots a laser from the corner, he hard commits to something that takes a while to get a hitbox out and leaves him in the air where he can't CC. However, if the laser connects, the other person is stopped in their tracks (barring powershielding).

The threat alone of lasers can make opponents antsy (so they approach a lot due to not wanting to be lasered) or highly passive (don't want to run into big strong Falco hitboxes like the unCCable dair). There's a whole spectrum inbetween as well. I think more power lies in being able to manipulate where the opponent lies in that spectrum with my laser usage. Many things go into how much laser spam I can get away with (MU as different characters have different tools to deal with lasers, space between characters, powershielding ability of the opponent, how much stage I have behind me, etc). If someone backs up to ledge, I by all rights can laser spam to 999% if they don't do anything about it. Sure this works, but where's the fun in that

IMO it's more constructive to play into a scenario where I have the majority of stage to play with while they have a sliver, then stop lasering particularly if I have the lead (this is where I think a lot of players might disagree). I have all of stage to work with. I have forced you into a situation where your options are hugely limited. My mere presence now applies immense amounts of pressure. I can stand a roll's length away and with good conditioning and such, turn you into my puppet. Lasers have done their job. Now I can smother you. Sometimes, I feel as though you'll weasel your way out. But guess what? I HAVE THE ENTIRE STAGE. I can fall back to wherever I want, whenever I want, and continue to exert as much pressure as I want (retreating lasers, feint movement back then approach, play with spacing etc).

Now it gets tricky. This is where you have to pick apart how the other person plays. How do they drop shield? Were they even shielding? Do they jump to plat? Do they empty jump? Do they fall back to ledge? Do they roll? Do they attack OoS? Do they WD OoS and throw out attacks? Do they advancing WD OoS back into shield? Do they start throwing attacks out? You can beat all of these incredibly hard by letting yourself lose total control in exchange for observing their counterplay to how you're pressuring them. But even when you drop the pressure, you can still have enough stage to regain control at any time. As you practice this more, you pick up on habits faster. You start reading rolls and applying shieldpressure that baits counterattacks for you to punish and stuffing movement. But in doing all this, you have to remain unpredictable and able to shift gears in an instant.

The part where this gets even more absurd is when Falco grabs ledge. You conceded 100% of stage for w/e reason. This is bad right? Not even. When Falco grabs ledge, he should be back onstage instantly and better yet, INVINCIBLY. Invincible edgedash is super broken. Super hugely immensely Brawl MK levels of broken. You can invincibly return to stage and put out (pretty much) any hitbox you want WHILE STILL INVINCIBLE AS THE HITBOX COMES OUT.

Or.

You can stand there and walk forward. Falco's walk is scary. Falco's movement as a whole should be scary, but I think it's done an injustice in the meta. Dash > WD is fast. DD is actually useful enough to microspace and subtly create situations where you can outspace just about anything with dash > WD. Outspacing things isn't free by any means, you have to be smart and the opponent can always call out your movement by going in deeper and snagging you.

Hold up. You can get people in the corner and smother their shield or you can fall all the way back. What about the inbetween? This is where things REALLY get fun. If your ledge mechanics and shield pressure are good, you now get to play the onstage game. Footsie with them. Make them ask questions and doubt themselves. Is he coming in? Is he retreating? Will he laser again? Will he stuff my movement? Can I catch him? Is this a bait? Instill that fear. Make them guess. More importantly, make them guess wrong. Don't let them guess wrong, MAKE them guess wrong. Obviously this gets more difficult the better the player you're up against, but there isn't a player alive who doesn't have to deal with the tools you have. Make them work. If all you do is dance around with lasers, they're going to know that all you do is move in and out with lasers and you'll get read, stuffed, and killed. If you never shoot lasers, you can get steamrolled. If you use the threat of lasers, shieldpressure, baiting, etc, the other player can't stay comfortable. You get to dictate how the mixup game is played. You control what tools they have to use. But you cannot laser everything. You have to take risks, otherwise you'll never learn when just to run instead of retreating laser. What if they'd have whiffed something if you outspaced as opposed to retreating lasered? You could have killed them for it, but instead you shot a laser, did 3% and gave them the chance to collect themselves because you lasered them out of their endlag which may have sacrificed frame advantage.

This has gone on too long. Quote bits and ask questions if things need clarifying. Call me an idiot if you feel like it, just do it so it leads to discussion. I really love Falco as a character and want to push him in directions no one else has. I feel as if there's soooo much room for improvement but no one's thrown anything new into the mix. Cheers.

Edit: HOLY **** I DIDN'T REALIZE I HAD WRITTEN SO MUCH. Hopefully it's useful. This turned into How I Think About Falco 438 instead of How to Laser. didn't even touch on platforms. Way too late

I don't explain why lasering in the corner is (usually) bad but i hope that's obvious. This is only dealing with the ground game. Getting someone to jump imo means you're winning 99% of the time so you just have to capitalize. Idk w/e i'm tired lemme sleep hope to chat tomorrow :D

Dude, can you please format your post? I.e. Break it into paragraphs.

Hopefully that's a bit easier to digest

tl;dr

JK it's pretty insightful

I'll try to start getting footage so I can have examples of certain things. Tbh i was really inspired by leffen's falco on his stream a few months ago. He did quick little DDs for max spaced nair approaches that were incredibly safe on shield and bullied the other person around more than locking him down with lasers

mas_torque said:

My question to you is if you're putting the laser out to hit them as they're falling, why not hit them with, say, a nair instead? I'll do this and string nairs/fairs together (fair is SUPER disjointed btw) which gets me a lot more than a single laser or laser grab.

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Great question, the answer is simple, my falco is a ppmd kind of falco, with more pressure and multishines for swag lol.

I think that getting a nair to a marth that shorthopped 1 dashattack lenght away from me is risky and might be a bait. I rather space a laser, medium height, and dash attack, which leads into a reverse bair>dair if hes at mid%, at low% just dair to pillar, and high% reverse bair to edgeguard.

Also, low laser>fsmash to a falling marth is awesome, done it a while. Works perfect as a mixup.

Plus i prefer getting a grab, putting the enemy on a bad position, and going in, doing pressure or more grabs, baits, dd, whatever really. Like you said, movement is scary and usually ppl react out of fear.

For me
stage position>percent

mas_torque said:

I'll try to start getting footage so I can have examples of certain things. Tbh i was really inspired by leffen's falco on his stream a few months ago. He did quick little DDs for max spaced nair approaches that were incredibly safe on shield and bullied the other person around more than locking him down with lasers

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I could help you with this if you wanted, although my vids will be smartphone cam quality lmao

Once someone jumps, there's a window where you should be able to come in with a shffl since his attacks won't come out as he's landing, there's 4 frames of unavoidable landlag, and startup frames on grounded attacks (fastest grounded move is 4 frames for his jab). The right nair will exploit this window and cover him shielding as it will be safe from shieldgrab. Shooting a laser gives him a chance to sdi and avoid followups or even turn the situation around by scoring a grab out of the sdi'd laser. It might sound like a stretch, but if you/we are trying to improve the character and as players, shouldn't we account for things like this? Then again, this game is has so much room for creativity I definitely can't say you're wrong, as you obviously have a solid decision tree worked out and there's so many damn variable to take into consideration

mas_torque said:

Once someone jumps, there's a window where you should be able to come in with a shffl since his attacks won't come out as he's landing, there's 4 frames of unavoidable landlag, and startup frames on grounded attacks (fastest grounded move is 4 frames for his jab). The right nair will exploit this window and cover him shielding as it will be safe from shieldgrab. Shooting a laser gives him a chance to sdi and avoid followups or even turn the situation around by scoring a grab out of the sdi'd laser. It might sound like a stretch, but if you/we are trying to improve the character and as players, shouldn't we account for things like this? Then again, this game is has so much room for creativity I definitely can't say you're wrong, as you obviously have a solid decision tree worked out and there's so many damn variable to take into consideration

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Totally agree with you, since a nair is a confirmed hit, more % and such, but for it to be safe id have to be at perfect spacing, then come in with a nair, at a distance or timing that marth cant react fair, waveland down or clutch counter (lol). That fox cant ff, sheild my attack and shine oos or grab, maybe waveland back, fsmash.

Ive done dd>shffl low nair>shine>pillar but theres always the risk of retaliation. Like you said, i have a solid decision tree worked out, and a spaced laser can lead into so many things, including fadeaway nair, leaving me safe and with stage control

Looooots of variables.

Hubkun said:

Looooots of variables.

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Welcome to Melee

What's the importance of stage control and how do you abuse it as falco?

Use it to let the other person whiff. Use it to space approaches better. Use it so when you get hit there's stage still under you instead of being offstage. Use it to be patient and force commitments out of the other player.

While playing against a Samus main last week I figured out that I can combo him using dair-rising dair-rising dair etc... till he pops up and then tech-chase him. While playing in Tournament I used this "combo" against a Puff player and it worked like a charm. I never saw this "combo" in any match i watched.. Is this actually legit or were they just too bad to get out? Can't test it this week cuz no weeklies :/

Jim_P said:

While playing against a Samus main last week I figured out that I can combo him using dair-rising dair-rising dair etc... till he pops up and then tech-chase him. While playing in Tournament I used this "combo" against a Puff player and it worked like a charm. I never saw this "combo" in any match i watched.. Is this actually legit or were they just too bad to get out? Can't test it this week cuz no weeklies :/

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If you daired them while they were bouncing back up, they were consistently missing techs. I highly doubt it's a true combo

Jim_P said:

While playing against a Samus main last week I figured out that I can combo him using dair-rising dair-rising dair etc... till he pops up and then tech-chase him. While playing in Tournament I used this "combo" against a Puff player and it worked like a charm. I never saw this "combo" in any match i watched.. Is this actually legit or were they just too bad to get out? Can't test it this week cuz no weeklies :/

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I actually think 3 consecutive dairs could work on a grounded tall character before knockdown%. The way I would go at it is first doing a late dair, then doing a delayed early dair, or maybe a mid jump dair and after that an early dair. I have to calculate and test this later, but initially it seems like it should work if you can get the high dair to hit.

Late dair -> rising dair definitely works, and you can probably get a shine / utilt afterwards.

So I've read some of PP's posts and the post on this page. about lasers but I'm still at a loss about properly integrating lasers into my DD as falco. I've been a Fox/Falcon player forever but I finally would like to learn Falco if for no other reason than he is fun. However, I've found myself either mindlessly spamming lasers when they are far away, approaching with them and hoping the player is incompetent vs lasers, or just doing my normal DD (which is surprisingly effective given how I've never seen a Falco really DD/use DWDs much lol). What types of movement do lasers replace, what purpose do they serve from the perspective of a "normal" DD? It's strange because I've fought so much against Falco and now that I'm playing him he seems much different than I expected.

furta said:

So I've read some of PP's posts and the post on this page. about lasers but I'm still at a loss about properly integrating lasers into my DD as falco. I've been a Fox/Falcon player forever but I finally would like to learn Falco if for no other reason than he is fun. However, I've found myself either mindlessly spamming lasers when they are far away, approaching with them and hoping the player is incompetent vs lasers, or just doing my normal DD (which is surprisingly effective given how I've never seen a Falco really DD/use DWDs much lol). What types of movement do lasers replace, what purpose do they serve from the perspective of a "normal" DD? It's strange because I've fought so much against Falco and now that I'm playing him he seems much different than I expected.

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From what I understand, you should use them to lock down your opponents movement and to interrupt them while recovering

furta said:

So I've read some of PP's posts and the post on this page. about lasers but I'm still at a loss about properly integrating lasers into my DD as falco. I've been a Fox/Falcon player forever but I finally would like to learn Falco if for no other reason than he is fun. However, I've found myself either mindlessly spamming lasers when they are far away, approaching with them and hoping the player is incompetent vs lasers, or just doing my normal DD (which is surprisingly effective given how I've never seen a Falco really DD/use DWDs much lol). What types of movement do lasers replace, what purpose do they serve from the perspective of a "normal" DD? It's strange because I've fought so much against Falco and now that I'm playing him he seems much different than I expected.

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I'm not going to lie, but if you're not gonna play Falco that seriously, its not worth it. There's a reason pocket Falcos are one of the rarest breeds.

You use lasers to get yourself in a situation where they're scared and shield, or they think you'll continue advancing so they throw something out. You DD to microspace to make them whiff or to put yourself somewhere so that your next laser will land you somewhere safe and advantageous

victinivcreate1 said:

I'm not going to lie, but if you're not gonna play Falco that seriously, its not worth it. There's a reason pocket Falcos are one of the rarest breeds.

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I'd like to main Falco if I get comfortable with him. Hands are only getting worse and worse with Fox and I dislike how I've found myself playing Falcon the better I've gotten with him.

How do you guys set up the different laser -> something set ups? Like laser grab, laser jab, laser ftilt etc. I've been laser jabbing floaties to get up KO opportunities, laser ftitling for corner pressure but I'm not sure when to laser grab. I recognize it's probably when they're scared in shield but I'm having trouble implementing it. Any tips? It's probably just play more and spam til u get the hang of it and I'm probably just struggling learning how to condition my opponents into shielding the pressure (mostly do repeated nair shines or nair shine grab with fox so this is quite different)

I have a pocket Falco currently, but I doubt I'll ever break him out. Just kinda trying to learn some stuff with him when I'm screwing around or when I'm struggling a lot with growth for my Marth.

furta said:

I'd like to main Falco if I get comfortable with him. Hands are only getting worse and worse with Fox and I dislike how I've found myself playing Falcon the better I've gotten with him.

How do you guys set up the different laser -> something set ups? Like laser grab, laser jab, laser ftilt etc. I've been laser jabbing floaties to get up KO opportunities, laser ftitling for corner pressure but I'm not sure when to laser grab. I recognize it's probably when they're scared in shield but I'm having trouble implementing it. Any tips? It's probably just play more and spam til u get the hang of it and I'm probably just struggling learning how to condition my opponents into shielding the pressure (mostly do repeated nair shines or nair shine grab with fox so this is quite different)

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Same as everything else. It's a mixup that hard counters shield

furta said:

I'd like to main Falco if I get comfortable with him. Hands are only getting worse and worse with Fox and I dislike how I've found myself playing Falcon the better I've gotten with him.

How do you guys set up the different laser -> something set ups? Like laser grab, laser jab, laser ftilt etc. I've been laser jabbing floaties to get up KO opportunities, laser ftitling for corner pressure but I'm not sure when to laser grab. I recognize it's probably when they're scared in shield but I'm having trouble implementing it. Any tips? It's probably just play more and spam til u get the hang of it and I'm probably just struggling learning how to condition my opponents into shielding the pressure (mostly do repeated nair shines or nair shine grab with fox so this is quite different)

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Lasers are unreliable, and it's only getting worse as time goes on. Falcos need to move away from lasering except in particular scenarios, such as covering recovery options, protecting yourself when coming down from plats, and occasionally building damage. In neutral, good players are either going to PS and use them against you or at the very least simply shield and jump/WD out without missing a beat. It can occasionally help you to restrict their movement in neutral if they want to move in, but overall they are extremely risky because of the huge startup, and most Falcos try to use them to approach which will never work vs. good players, even on hit.

Bones0 said:

Lasers are unreliable, and it's only getting worse as time goes on. Falcos need to move away from lasering except in particular scenarios, such as covering recovery options, protecting yourself when coming down from plats, and occasionally building damage. In neutral, good players are either going to PS and use them against you or at the very least simply shield and jump/WD out without missing a beat. It can occasionally help you to restrict their movement in neutral if they want to move in, but overall they are extremely risky because of the huge startup, and most Falcos try to use them to approach which will never work vs. good players, even on hit.

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I felt the pain of this since i was such a laser heavy falco, and all my approaches were laser based. So i worked soooo hard on movemenr and dashdance. Im telling you, its so good, because it holds so many threats, and yeah the dd is short, but lasers!!! They force the other DD guy to stop for a moment and give you a chance to inch a lil forward. Maybe grab em if they shield in panic.

So you gotta really think, about every laser that you shoot, where, how and when. Always try to win space and control. If youre mindlessly lasering with a rythm, theyll pick a spot to ps your laser (a spot theyve practiced a lot) hinder your rythm and go in.

Now if you space lasers, mix in dd, and each laser has a purpose, its harder to get in. So try and think about your lasers and if you can, play some matches laser free. It helps a lot

Other than nair and dair to shine, shine oos, and shield pressure, are there any other ways to shine people?
Relating to that, when should Falco shield?
I've noticed that I shield too often in scenarios where simply repositioning myself or anti-airing would be suitable, and much, much better given my lack of command over shine oos, though I need to change that as well and probably first. I then get stuck in shield and can't get out fast enough to avoid the poke or grab.

blargh257 said:

Other than nair and dair to shine, shine oos, and shield pressure, are there any other ways to shine people?
Relating to that, when should Falco shield?
I've noticed that I shield too often in scenarios where simply repositioning myself or anti-airing would be suitable, and much, much better given my lack of command over shine oos, though I need to change that as well and probably first. I then get stuck in shield and can't get out fast enough to avoid the poke or grab.

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upthrow leads to a shine if they dont react to it with jump or aerial, uptilt at percents under 30 i think, jab if they di towards you, jab on foaties on high percent, sour hit on the upair, there are lots of setups. And you can just sh shine lol.

I think you just panic and leave sheild on. Happened to me a lot before. Everytime you feel like sheilding, dd away and try to cover your feathery ass with bair. Imo falco should shield when hes gonna retaliate with shine oos or hes over cc percent, maybe to block a laggy move to punish with wd oos>anything.

But that question is too vague too :/ just experiment with your sheild and remember, wiff punish is better than a block punish or a cc punish. (Unless the cc leads to a 60%combo)

I live in the UK, in an area with no melee scene whatsoever. As a result I'm stuck practicing against 20XX CPUs. What I'd like to know is if there's anything that those CPUs tend to do which no real players would ever do against Falco, so I know more of what to expect if I ever play against real people.

bluesoup10 said:

I live in the UK, in an area with no melee scene whatsoever. As a result I'm stuck practicing against 20XX CPUs. What I'd like to know is if there's anything that those CPUs tend to do which no real players would ever do against Falco, so I know more of what to expect if I ever play against real people.

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20xx CPUs don't really fight differently, they just have random DI and random techs.

I was messing around with Falco on FD (on the 20XX pack) and I grabbed the ledge after comboing the cpu offstage. I tried to ledgehop, but I like immediately wall jumped, as if he did a Doraki Wall Jump. I actually SD'd out of surprise so i unfortunately never got the chance to see if Falco had his doublejump.

I'm aware that Falco can instant wall jump on Melee Congo jungle, but I thought he couldn't Doraki on FD. Can he Doraki? And if he can, what are the inputs? I know I saw a wall jump off the ledge. Is it possible that I did a ledgedrop on frame 8 and wall jumped on frame 9, like a Scar Jump?

Yo, I'm new the Melee scene so I guess I should introduce myself. Only about a week ago I decided to start practicing for real on Melee, so my tech skill is near non-existent but everyone's gotta start somewhere. I picked up Falco because he's just plain cool. His combos in my opinion are cooler than Fox's to watch and perform. I love hitting people with shines and soaring into the air to beat on them with his aerials and his tech wont murder my hands like Fox' does.

The only other character as satisfying in my opinion is Marth, but I've just been practicing with Falco non-stop so much I'm forgetting how to play Marth. Falco is just too much damn fun. So uh, hi. Sorry if this is the wrong thread to introduce myself in.