Yoshi's Island Ghosts Test

Remzi · Dec 5, 2009

I just ran a little test. I watched 3 matches where two players did not move at all and took notes on the times that the ghosts dropped to see if there was any consistency.

Unfortunately, it seems to be 100% random. There was absolutely no correlation between the 3 times. I watched the beginning of 5 more matches to check if at least the first ghost would appear at a similar time, but it never happened.

Not sure if people already knew this or what, just wanted to post my results here.

It's kind of silly to have a neutral with such a random mechanic in there that can literally save a match for someone, IMO. I personally feel like only having FD, BF, and SV as neutrals would be the best option, but I digress.

If anyone has any other findings about the ghosts or any other patterns on YI, feel free to post them here.

Holty · Dec 5, 2009

Yeah, I'm with you, especially when Smash Wiki also states that the support ghost appears and disappears at random. Interestingly, though, you can actually see the support ghost offscreen when you pause the game.

MJG · Dec 6, 2009

Good find. I've wondered about the ghost as well...at one point I thought the time in which the ghost came up was 4-5 seconds apart (either ghost would come up)

Anyways...this stage is dumb IMO

Splice · Dec 6, 2009

Smashville, Battlefield, Final Destination, Halberd, Yoshis Island.

Those are the stages i think that are closest to neutral out of all the others, in order from most neutral to not quite. Halberd has the things that try to kill you, but they are easily avoidable and the ghost can on Y.I can change much more than the weapons on Halberd. Plus the bumpy ground on Y.I and the edges can be silly.

I agree, SV, BF, and FD for three random neutrals.

Oh, did you do a test to see when the ghost on oneside pops up in correlation to the otherside? For example, say at 0:37 the ghost on the right pops up, will the one on the left always pop up in the next 10 seconds? That would be worthwhile to check on, imo.

teluoborg · Dec 6, 2009

So the first ghost appearance is random, but is the cycle random too ?

Remzi · Dec 6, 2009

the cycle is 100% random according to my 3 full tests.

a ghost can come up ten times on one side without it coming up on the other side once. its pretty ridiculous from what ive gathered

Noobicidal · Dec 6, 2009

I gathered the same results a few months back while working on Gerudo spiking (aerial side b into opponent on a edge-less side, opponent keeps falling after Ganon lands).

Prawn · Dec 17, 2009

lol if you have SV, BF, and FD on random ICs would be mad broken so yeah do it! lulz

mars16 · Dec 17, 2009

So like there's ghost in smash bros brawl

Are you talkinabout like racing your ghost to see if you can beat your record

Grim Tuesday · Dec 22, 2009

mars16 said:
So like there's ghost in smash bros brawl

Are you talkinabout like racing your ghost to see if you can beat your record

*facepalm*
*facepalm*
*facepalm*
*facepalm*
*facepalm*
*facepalm*
*facepalm*
*facepalm*
*facepalm*
*facepalm*
.
.
.
*facepalm*

The
support
ghost
on
Yoshi's
Island

-_skinny_- · Dec 31, 2009

mars16 said:
So like there's ghost in smash bros brawl

Are you talkinabout like racing your ghost to see if you can beat your record

WWWWOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWW
Did u hit ur head?

B.Link · Jan 2, 2010

The ghost always save my life its so weird =]

Rubberbandman · Jan 2, 2010

BengalsRZ said:
the cycle is 100% random according to my 3 full tests.

a ghost can come up ten times on one side without it coming up on the other side once. its pretty ridiculous from what ive gathered

Unless we can see the equation for how it works it looks like its just going to have to be like that, I dont see much of a problem with YI as a neutral imo.

6Mizu · Jan 2, 2010

aw....I was hoping to abuse tge gost...depending on when they appear.
BTW, everyone knows they're called Shy Guys...right?

Overswarm · Jan 11, 2010

Did you try it with different %?

It may be the ghost routinely appears to save the person at higher %, or perhaps it routinely appears only on the side with more players?

UberMario · Jan 11, 2010

6Mizu said:
BTW, everyone knows they're called Shy Guys...right?

Nope, they're called Support Ghosts and what you are referring to are the Fly Guys, which are a type of Shy Guy and are simple bg props that have almost no effect on gameplay. The Support Ghosts have usable platforms on their heads and appear every once-and-a-while below the ledges.

Kinzer · Jan 11, 2010

UberMario said:
Nope, they're called Support Ghosts and what you are referring to are the Fly Guys, which are a type of Shy Guy and are simple bg props that have almost no effect on gameplay. The Support Ghosts have usable platforms on their heads and appear every once-and-a-while below the ledges.

Doesn't hitting them use it stale move tallies?

Rubberbandman · Jan 11, 2010

Yes, because if we turned items on (Lol, Competitive Brawl) the flyguys would be holding food instead of floating around and doing nothing but letting you stale moves.

highfive · Jan 11, 2010

I did hear a while back that the maximum amount of time the support ghost will not appear on one side is 20 seconds. Although the information in the OP contradicts my statement.

Luxor · Jan 11, 2010

From looking at it again, I'm inclined to agree with Overswarm. The ghosts seem to want to help you recover. They at least appear when the fight moves to that edge.

Overswarm · Jan 12, 2010

You can't really "agree" with a question.

Zankoku · Jan 12, 2010

Holty said:
Interestingly, though, you can actually see the support ghost offscreen when you pause the game.

I believe this is important. If the Support Ghost is simply offscreen and moving back and forth, then the only random thing is when it decides to come up instead of continue moving, while the current possible location for it to pop up should have a straight answer.

If someone can hack the camera or if the normal replay camera can be exploited then this can probably be further verified.

Overswarm · Jan 12, 2010

Good catch, Ankoku.

Does anyone have a camera hack that allows them to see the support ghost at all times? It'd be interesting to see if you could determine any pattern to it.

I wonder if the tilting of the stage platform means anything...

solecalibur · Jan 12, 2010

I'd also take note of the weather and the characters have to stand still 100% of the time next time you test it

Overswarm · Jan 12, 2010

Potential variables:

Weather
Platform tilt
Player %
Player location
Ghost location (if it is a constant out of camera)

MysteriousSilver · Jan 12, 2010

Both ghosts are stationary and below camera at all times

/checked with camera hack

Number 28 · Jan 30, 2010

YI should be CP for the ghosts. A starter should not have any random element. I agree with the OP.

Ah except when the random element does not effect gameplay in competive settings like the SV balloons offcourse. In that case it's fine IMO.

OmegaXXII · Feb 1, 2010

Overswarm said:
Did you try it with different %?

It may be the ghost routinely appears to save the person at higher %, or perhaps it routinely appears only on the side with more players?

Hmm.. this seems like a good theory, but like Ankoku said, a camera hack would be the best way to determine this.

edit: nevermind, seems someone's already tested it.

mars16 said:
So like there's ghost in smash bros brawl

Are you talkinabout like racing your ghost to see if you can beat your record

lol... *facepalm* :laugh:

Amazing Ampharos · Feb 1, 2010

Number 28 said:
YI should be CP for the ghosts. A starter should not have any random element. I agree with the OP.

Ah except when the random element does not effect gameplay in competive settings like the SV balloons offcourse. In that case it's fine IMO.

I've seen Ness gimped by the Smashville balloon before. G&W can refresh his stale moves nearly completely off it if given a chance since the wind from his uair doesn't pop it but does enter the stale moves queue when making contact with the balloon. Everyone else can get their one stale move refreshed off it which can actually matter. It definitely is a non-negligible gameplay element; I guess Smashville isn't starter-grade either.

For that matter, the ground on Final Destination is basically a random element because you can randomly trip on it or pull random turnips or pikmin colors out of it with Peach and Olimar respectively. The same could be said of Battlefield. I guess Brawl has zero starters.

Really though, people should just suck some of this stuff up. The game has some randomness. This is true on every single stage. Some stages have a little more. Most of the time, it's not much. When it is legitimately not much, just deal with it. Play around it; if your actions are informed by the random elements existing, you will pretty much never lose a game because of them. If you do once in a very, very great while, you can still pretty much blame yourself. If the match was so phenomenally close that the only deciding factor was one random stage element going against you, you weren't going to win a very convincing victory in any case. You could also have lost to a single random trip or Peach pulling a single better item out of a turnip pull or any of that business, stuff that's more likely and can happen on every stage. There's definitely no ground to complain or blame the game.

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