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Judge Rules Nintendo Illegally Protects Systems, Should be Like Windows

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Gardevior

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http://www.maxconsole.net/?mode=news&newsid=38047:

"We have just heard that Nintendo has today lost a major court case against the Divineo group in the main court of Paris. Nintendo originally took the group to court over DS flash carts, however the judge today has ruled against Nintendo and suggested that they are purposely locking out developers from their consoles and things should be more like Windows where ANYONE can develop any application if they wish to.

The ramifications of this are huge, as it indicates that flash carts are actually legal. Moroever, it could have bigger implications for developers and the like because Nintendo is deemed to be 'illegally' protecting their system by locking users out. Therefore, developers should not actually require separate development kits and should just be able to develop applications as they wish on retail versions of Nintendo's consoles.

And on a final note, this truly was a HUGE court case, up in the main court of Paris France and seems likely to be relevant to the whole of Europe.

Essentially, if people have to 'hack' the system and use Flash Cards to do develop, then it's all fine because Nintendo has left them with little other choice and the system should not be protected in such a restrictive way.

Full court documents will be available soon."​


What are the implications of this and wii homebrew? Does this mean Nintendo will try to stop killing it?
 

Shadic

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Unfortunately, corporations are protected against the consumer in America, so I doubt we'll ever see such a ruling made here.

In fact, I'm pretty sure they're quasi-illegal here. (Modchips and flashcarts).

While awesome for France, I don't think it'll effect these boards at all, considering they're run by MLG now.
 

Kei_Takaro

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I hope Ninty stops killing Homebrew, I mean GOD why don't you just give us a chance!?! lol

I hope they find something 'bout Square-Enix too, I still want that Fanmade 3d Chrono Trigger Game
 

Dsull

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i havent tried it yet because my connection wouldnt last long enough to download any, but do you use Homebrew to play downloaded Wii games too, either on a disc or on a harddrive? If so, that might be why they hate homebrew so much. If not, i dont get why they want to get rid of it so bad.
In my case, i play ANY NES game on my wii cuz i like the classical feel of the held-sideways wiimote vs my xbox360 i use on my computer. Very few NES games, if any, that i play are actually available via Wii Shop.

Of course i do B+ too. But you atleast need the original game first, which eliminates any claims to piracy.
 

STUFF2o

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i havent tried it yet because my connection wouldnt last long enough to download any, but do you use Homebrew to play downloaded Wii games too, either on a disc or on a harddrive? If so, that might be why they hate homebrew so much. If not, i dont get why they want to get rid of it so bad.
In my case, i play ANY NES game on my wii cuz i like the classical feel of the held-sideways wiimote vs my xbox360 i use on my computer. Very few NES games, if any, that i play are actually available via Wii Shop.

Of course i do B+ too. But you atleast need the original game first, which eliminates any claims to piracy.
Umm... there's tons of NES games on the Wii Shop Channel. All the NES games I care about, anyway.
 

Dsull

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Umm... there's tons of NES games on the Wii Shop Channel. All the NES games I care about, anyway.
True that, but not Shatterhand, Blastermaster, Spy vs Spy, or Solar Jetman. Touche, my friend, lol
 

A17

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They would be as good selling as the ps2 if they weren't so uptight about hacking consoles.

PS2's sold very well bck then because sony barely gave a crap if you sold pirated games, when i bought a ps2, the old and fat one, the guy had put in a modchip and from then on, i've been buying games from him. Bought probably 50+ games from him. ..... this guy had a store in small mall for probably 9 or 10 years, from the day I bought my ps2 (premodded there) til the day he started selling 360 and wii pirated copies, then he eventually got booked and closed down.

Maybe the developers didn't profit, but now I am exposed to the game and I know what good games exist and what don't. If i didn't get a modchip I wouldn't have known about the great ps2 games that exist and wouldn't be looking forward to investing in next installments on the ps3, it's like an advertisement almost.

I wouldn't have known about God of War, Gran Turismo, Killzone and Tekken just to name a few. Although I don't have a ps3, if I spontaneously win the lottery, for sure I see myself with a ps3 and GOW and GT.
 

IndigoFenix

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I'm fairly certain the main problem is the fact that you can use it to get free games. While some programmers might not like their games to be touched because their design feels 'sacred' to them, as far as money (the power behind the market) is concerned, a person will probably be more willing to buy a game if they know that buying one game is like buying several, when you include all the mods they can get for it. Won't sales for Brawl go up if people know that their favorite character who was not included in the official game can now be hacked into it? Or if they want FUN, SPEED, ACTIVATE and can only get that through B+?

Or maybe that's the problem? Sales depend on the fact that people will get bored with their old games and want to buy new ones? Infinite replay value is a bad thing for game designers? IT'S A CONSPIRACY, I TELL YOU!!!

Naah... I think it's the free games problem. THAT is perfectly justifiable on Nintendo's part.
 

Isatis

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What are the implications of this and wii homebrew? Does this mean Nintendo will try to stop killing it?
Actually, they may stop killing it in France (or Europe) due to this court order, but they have little reason to stop in America, so don't expect the homebrew-killing updates to stop. The DMCA would likely rule in Nintendo's favor over here anyway.

[side-note: while nobody has done it yet, PLEASE don't link to sites that enable/discuss piracy or else I'll have to lock, thanks]
 

Kei_Takaro

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I wish homebrew would be made for "homebrew" itself and not on games, I do not support Nintendo on that matter, and as far as I'm concerned, why don't they try "being and feeling" like a Gamer does?
It doesn't concern the fact that we need homebrew, but none of that would be there in the first place if they would just offer up better if not good enough, things. Brawl would have to be a good example, (although this might be on the case of Sakurai) it would have lasted more than 8 years for an Updated Brawl, covering up every glitch, balancing the game, adding more characters (by some means of increasing the wii's hard drive), better online and the list goes on.
All they do now is for the money, it may not seem that bad but I personally feel downed by that.

[side-note: while nobody has done it yet, PLEASE don't link to sites that enable/discuss piracy or else I'll have to lock, thanks]
Hmm, can we still talk about piracy in a political point of view?
 

A17

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no discussing? didn't I just do that in my previous post?

I think a chunk of wii's being sold are made because we know about the homebrew channel and its capabilities, can modify MANY things within the Wii, down to themes, who wouldn't want personalizing to be an extra feature?
 

Stoney

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The pirates, they are dancing in the streets. I bet if you glanced at a torrent site right now you'd see a huge increase in the number of leechers for Wii PAL ISOs.

On the upside, this could really help motivate the Wii homebrew scene in Europe, and since we all use the internet, anything they make can be obtained and used by Americans. On the downside, anything they make will be for PAL consoles, not those crazy NTSC-U ones.

On the other upside, if Nintendo abides by this court order they might start releasing Wii updates in Europe without all the homebrew-killing functionality, which could then be patched and ported to American/Japanese consoles.

On the other downside, if Nintendo decides to instead act like...well, Nintendo...they might start shunning France altogether because of this and just sell to the other European countries. Which would do nothing to dissuade the French from Wii piracy, but hey, it seems like something Big N would do.

Actually, they may stop killing it in France (or Europe) due to this court order, but they have little reason to stop in America, so don't expect the homebrew-killing updates to stop. The DMCA would likely rule in Nintendo's favor over here anyway.
*HISSSSS*

I loathe the DMCA. It was a stupid piece of legislation passed by stupid politicians in the pocket of special interests groups to restrict how consumers use products they have legitimately paid for. By and large it has failed to be used for the original reasons it was created and has instead wound up being abused by corporations. If you ever try to watch an American DVD movie and find yourself unable to skip past the advertisements/previews in the beginning, you have the DMCA to thank for that.
 

luigiman1928

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When i first saw this i lol'd. Sooo hard. How do you Illegally protect their Legal stuff from Illegal stuff. Wow that judge is a ******. But maybe that will mean that they'll stop stopping us. What next, them taking our game request's?
 

Plum

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Its really sad that Nintendo has always had this stance.
It is perfectly reasonable, and in this day and era expected for a company to prevent pirating.

I'm guilty of doing some of it myself, but that doesn't change my opinion that Nintendo has every right to stop pirating. But when those efforts extend into shutting out user made content then it is just a shame.

In the perfect world Nintendo would encourage user made content, and give developers whatever they need to generate content to their heart's content. The only actions they would take is to shut out pirating. Nintendo could easily come out with their own variant of the Homebrew Channel that allows developers to post their own content for download among other Wii users. That would allow them to focus on shutting out pirating.

But no. Nintendo isn't cool enough. Another reason for me to love Valve.
 

SymphonicSage12

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luigiman, think of it this way....

if a robber robs your house, and then you're worried he'll do it again, is it legal to find where he lives, go up to his bedroom, and shoot him in the chest 3 times?

Hell no. Trying to protect yourself from something illegal can be illegal in itself.
 

Isatis

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The debate over who's right or wrong comes down to principles and practicalities. In principle, homebrew designers would seem to have the high ground under the "open development" precept: What's different, they'll argue, in theory, between a pocket-sized computer, and one that sits under your desk? In practice, of course, Nintendo can point to mind-boggling piracy numbers to make the argument that a preponderance of flash-cartridge owners are simply using the things to brute-force pirate stuff.

[...]

Don't hold your breath waiting for the rest of the world to follow suit. According to Nintendo's anti-piracy site, the company's been involved in "over 600 actions (including customs seizures, law enforcement actions, initiating civil proceedings, etc.) in 16 countries, confiscating over a half million DS game copiers."

Were I Nintendo, I'd nip the whole 'design' argument in the bud by extending a friendly hand to wannabe-developers along the lines of what Microsoft's put together with its XNA game development initiative. Create an open, flexible, affordable path to indie/homebrew on the DS or Wii, and a mechanism for redistributing the really quality stuff. Currently, you have to jump through all kinds of hoops just to get accepted, and fork over between $2,000 and $10,000 for a dev kit.

$45-$50 for a flash card, or two to 10-large in development kit costs? If I wanted to try my hand at amateur game design, I know which I'd pick.
It wouldn't be so much piracy as it is they've got data to prove it as well as far as flashcarts go (PCWorld Article). But everyone's in agreement, including the author of linked article, that they do need to open up their software though. Not just that, but bushing said himself that there were several ways to stop piracy altogether and contacted Nintendo to say what they were doing, and Nintendo flat out ignored them.
 

Ledger_Damayn

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I think Nintendo is against fun and interesting. Instead they release the same content a million times in a row, when they could have easily made more mascots, they just wanted to milk the Mario cash cow.
 

Alphatron

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luigiman, think of it this way....

if a robber robs your house, and then you're worried he'll do it again, is it legal to find where he lives, go up to his bedroom, and shoot him in the chest 3 times?

Hell no. Trying to protect yourself from something illegal can be illegal in itself.
This is a pretty terrible comparison. Nintendo isn't purposely bricking Wiis and DSes.
 

SymphonicSage12

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That is perfectly arguable, Alphatron....


They obviously didn't sneak a thing in the updates that makes homebrew not work...I mean, it just HAPPENS to be that the update can screw over homebrew if you don't update homebrew before the update....
 
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I think Nintendo is against fun and interesting. Instead they release the same content a million times in a row, when they could have easily made more mascots, they just wanted to milk the Mario cash cow.
Indeed. It makes total sense that they'd want to shut out creativity in the sense of recreating their games.

I would remove the homebrew channel from my wii immediately, and remove all other things that come with it (yes, even BootMii, which is purely beneficial!) if nintendo released a gecko OS version, even just for brawl. It's that simple. Brawl just isn't as fun as Brawl+ or Brawl- (well, when it comes out).

Let's try a little thought experiment.

What percentage of homebrew users use homebrew exclusively for things like Brawl+, BBrawl, homemade chars; in general, brawl hacking?
What percentage of homebrew users come to hacked games over this?
What percentage of homebrew users pirate games?
How many people are more interested in the wii because of brawl+, the homebrew channel, and game modification (not pirating, just changing things) in general?
How many people buy the wii for one or two choice titles?
How many people would be more interested in these titles if they could personalize it, make it weirder and more fun (mario cart items that are more crazy, bizarre luigi physics in NSMB, brawl+, sick as **** songs on Guitar Hero World Tour, which blew, just a few examples (okay, bad example due to DLC, but you get my point!))

Now let's try to look at these percents and figure out exactly how much money nintendo could GAIN through all of this, and how much they lose.

Let's see.
  1. How many people would buy this? If they sell a built-in homebrew channel and/or Gecko APP, especially if it has USBGecko-like capabilities, on the shop channel, they could make a lot of money off of that. Or they could just include it just like that, but that wouldn't maximize win. At the same time, it would lower the motivation of people like Team Twiizers who create the hacks for the system patches (and these hacks allow piracy!) because less people would be interested in them. Money win either way for nintendo.
  2. More people would be interested in buying the wii. I don't think any gamer who's really looked at it can deny that Wii is the worst console of this generation, and that by a long shot. It still moves a lot of consoles, but the number of original games that are worth getting is low, and the number of original ideas is close to zero. And I don't mean original in the sense "totally new concept" I mean new as in "isn't an utterly ****ed-off franchise". But now imagine if you can take these bizarre franchise games and do crazy **** to them? Boom, instant win. Nintendo has turned itself into a freelance console for people who like their games different-HUGE step from "Let's make mario again and again".
  3. More "bad" games move. Let's take a look at some nintendo titles which utterly failed. How many of them could be saved with a patch of some sort? Or a slight retweak of the engine? With this, nintendo could say "screw patching" (they can't do it) and leave it up to the individual. So that means GHWT doesn't have the most ********-*** difficulty curve in the history of GH (yes, 3 was way less stupid believe it or not), some FPSs get improved wiimote support (which they seem to need in some cases). Extend this argument to already very good games, and you can still do great things like tweak the difficulty, make the physics silly, or make the game more competitively fair. So add More "good" games move too.
  4. More people develop for the wii. Granted, this is an after-effect of 1 and 2, but think about it. You are a game designer with a good concept and an impressive portfolio and want to bring out this incredible new bestseller. The wii is the console with the worst graphical capabilities, doesn't move as many units, and guess what-you can pirate it. So what if all of a sudden it sells more, can't be pirated as easily, and players can do half the work of balancing your game for you, making it even possible to release a second version of the game very soon after the last, milking the costumer.

TBH there's no reason against this other than developer's pride. It would stop hacking in a lot of cases, make less people ***** about system updates, and make more people buy/develop for the wii. So why not? Well, because nintendo sucks.

Also, it's true. Nintendo has stifled creativity, but at the same time ****ed off the same **** franchises so hard and so long that its figurative **** is ready to fall off. So this is probably the most refreshing and productive thing nintendo could do. Obviously, it will not happen. >.>
 

Dsull

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I think Nintendo is against fun and interesting. Instead they release the same content a million times in a row, when they could have easily made more mascots, they just wanted to milk the Mario cash cow.
i totally agree.
When was the last game universe for nintendo made anyway? i THINK it was Pokemon and holy crap thats old too.
Nintendo isn't all about the fun, quirky gameplay that the Mario series became. Metroid is a perfect example, its pretty indepth and non-cartoony. In fact, i think Mario and his buddies are the only "fun and quirky" universe Nintendo has. Star Fox is on the line, Metroid i already mentioned, Donkey Kong pretty much is the Mario universe now, Fire Emblem is a Turn-Based Strat (far from fun in my opinion...i dislike turnbased games), and i havent seen a Kirby game since N64 and that one sucked


EDIT: i take that kirby one back i forgot he had a DS game that was pretty amusing.
 

Alphatron

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That is perfectly arguable, Alphatron....


They obviously didn't sneak a thing in the updates that makes homebrew not work...I mean, it just HAPPENS to be that the update can screw over homebrew if you don't update homebrew before the update....
You're comparing killing a man to disabling our means to customize or steal. It's a bad comparison because they don't release updates that brick wiis once finding the HBC. =/

I can see what you were getting at though.
 

darksamus77

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Indeed. It makes total sense that they'd want to shut out creativity in the sense of recreating their games.

I would remove the homebrew channel from my wii immediately, and remove all other things that come with it (yes, even BootMii, which is purely beneficial!) if nintendo released a gecko OS version, even just for brawl. It's that simple. Brawl just isn't as fun as Brawl+ or Brawl- (well, when it comes out).

Let's try a little thought experiment.

What percentage of homebrew users use homebrew exclusively for things like Brawl+, BBrawl, homemade chars; in general, brawl hacking?
What percentage of homebrew users come to hacked games over this?
What percentage of homebrew users pirate games?
How many people are more interested in the wii because of brawl+, the homebrew channel, and game modification (not pirating, just changing things) in general?
How many people buy the wii for one or two choice titles?
How many people would be more interested in these titles if they could personalize it, make it weirder and more fun (mario cart items that are more crazy, bizarre luigi physics in NSMB, brawl+, sick as **** songs on Guitar Hero World Tour, which blew, just a few examples (okay, bad example due to DLC, but you get my point!))

Now let's try to look at these percents and figure out exactly how much money nintendo could GAIN through all of this, and how much they lose.

Let's see.
  1. How many people would buy this? If they sell a built-in homebrew channel and/or Gecko APP, especially if it has USBGecko-like capabilities, on the shop channel, they could make a lot of money off of that. Or they could just include it just like that, but that wouldn't maximize win. At the same time, it would lower the motivation of people like Team Twiizers who create the hacks for the system patches (and these hacks allow piracy!) because less people would be interested in them. Money win either way for nintendo.
  2. More people would be interested in buying the wii. I don't think any gamer who's really looked at it can deny that Wii is the worst console of this generation, and that by a long shot. It still moves a lot of consoles, but the number of original games that are worth getting is low, and the number of original ideas is close to zero. And I don't mean original in the sense "totally new concept" I mean new as in "isn't an utterly ****ed-off franchise". But now imagine if you can take these bizarre franchise games and do crazy **** to them? Boom, instant win. Nintendo has turned itself into a freelance console for people who like their games different-HUGE step from "Let's make mario again and again".
  3. More "bad" games move. Let's take a look at some nintendo titles which utterly failed. How many of them could be saved with a patch of some sort? Or a slight retweak of the engine? With this, nintendo could say "screw patching" (they can't do it) and leave it up to the individual. So that means GHWT doesn't have the most ********-*** difficulty curve in the history of GH (yes, 3 was way less stupid believe it or not), some FPSs get improved wiimote support (which they seem to need in some cases). Extend this argument to already very good games, and you can still do great things like tweak the difficulty, make the physics silly, or make the game more competitively fair. So add More "good" games move too.
  4. More people develop for the wii. Granted, this is an after-effect of 1 and 2, but think about it. You are a game designer with a good concept and an impressive portfolio and want to bring out this incredible new bestseller. The wii is the console with the worst graphical capabilities, doesn't move as many units, and guess what-you can pirate it. So what if all of a sudden it sells more, can't be pirated as easily, and players can do half the work of balancing your game for you, making it even possible to release a second version of the game very soon after the last, milking the costumer.

TBH there's no reason against this other than developer's pride. It would stop hacking in a lot of cases, make less people ***** about system updates, and make more people buy/develop for the wii. So why not? Well, because nintendo sucks.

Also, it's true. Nintendo has stifled creativity, but at the same time ****ed off the same **** franchises so hard and so long that its figurative **** is ready to fall off. So this is probably the most refreshing and productive thing nintendo could do. Obviously, it will not happen. >.>
This is a very good thought, and I would certainly back it up. First off, saving games that failed (I believe something like Metroid Prime Hunters is a prime example, pardon the pun) due to either a lack of effort, not enough time, or poor gameplay in general would be great!!! It could really bring the lesser-known Wii games out from nowhere and make them just as fun as any Mario game. And let's be quite honest here, whether Nintendo's just milking the Mario cash cow or not, you can't deny that there were too many good games between that and Brawl for the Wii (I can only think of Metroid Prime Trilogy, and even that's a rehash of GC games). Nintendo is limiting its options by going back to the same series over and over again. I think one great secondary series was Pikmin, but Nintendo never went back to that except to re-release the original with Wii controls. They're becoming less and less original, and not only that, but by trying to block homebrew, they're also limiting the gamer's options. I believe that even a casual gamer would have plenty of fun if they knew they could put stuff they wanted into a game. I don't believe anyone liked Brawl as much as Brawl+ or Brawl- because in short, it gave them the freedom to put what they wanted into Brawl. If Nintendo extended this sort of freedom to all their games, I bet many more games could be more enjoyable to gamers.
 

Blank Mauser

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Its about time Ninty's strict rules were looked at.

IIRC the dev kits can't even be taken out of a studio. Makes me wonder how so many shovelware companies even make it through their cumbersome system.
 

BEES

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This is a pretty terrible comparison. Nintendo isn't purposely bricking Wiis and DSes.
It's a pretty bad analogy, and Nintendo isn't bricking their hardware, but Microsoft is. They have been purposely, knowingly bricking 360s in their attempts to stop their own Homebrew hackers.

On the other hand, they have a console that you don't have to hack to put good games on, so you decide who is more evil.
 

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It's a pretty bad analogy, and Nintendo isn't bricking their hardware, but Microsoft is. They have been purposely, knowingly bricking 360s in their attempts to stop their own Homebrew hackers.

On the other hand, they have a console that you don't have to hack to put good games on, so you decide who is more evil.
Nintendo, cause in their failed efforts to stop actual pirates, they block the people who just use hombrew for B+ and stuff like that
 
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Has anyone ever considered starting a petition to get nintendo to change their stance on the HBC? It's less a "change or we'll **** you up" thing, and more a "change and you'll make more money" thing, so I think they're more likely to listen...
 

DQP

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ninty could've just stuck with stubbing IOS222, 223, and 249, and that would've made the piracy issue a whole lot.
 

Evilagram

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**** YEAR!

Awesome justice.

Let's hope ninty recalls their last update, or is forced to by court order at some point or another.
 

Veril

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When i first saw this i lol'd. Sooo hard. How do you Illegally protect their Legal stuff from Illegal stuff. Wow that judge is a ******. But maybe that will mean that they'll stop stopping us. What next, them taking our game request's?
Don't be obtuse. "Illegal stuff" is a meaningless term. The judge is taking a really brave and necessary step in setting this legal precedent. Nintendo tries to exert far too much control over their product. Even if this occurred in France, it is still a very good sign.
 

PKNintendo

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Its really sad that Nintendo has always had this stance.
It is perfectly reasonable, and in this day and era expected for a company to prevent pirating.

I'm guilty of doing some of it myself, but that doesn't change my opinion that Nintendo has every right to stop pirating. But when those efforts extend into shutting out user made content then it is just a shame.

In the perfect world Nintendo would encourage user made content, and give developers whatever they need to generate content to their heart's content. The only actions they would take is to shut out pirating. Nintendo could easily come out with their own variant of the Homebrew Channel that allows developers to post their own content for download among other Wii users. That would allow them to focus on shutting out pirating.

But no. Nintendo isn't cool enough. Another reason for me to love Valve.
Sometimes I think your TOO good of a poster. >_>

But still I completely agree with you. Long live valve. If only every company was like them.
 

Veril

Frame Savant
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,062
Location
Kent Lakes, New York
Stopping pirating isn't possible. I don't think its morally or legally defensible to pirate games any more than I think its right to shoplift, but quite frankly Nintendo needs a strategy that isn't based on trying to kill the unkillable.

I used to absolutely love Nintendo and their stance on hacking has really diminished my affections. They'd do better if they tried to compromise with the hacking community. Of course, that won't likely happen, and they will continue to fail abysmally at controlling the problem of piracy while alienating the very people who could help them most.
 

libertyernie

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
929
Location
Eau Claire, WI
I ought to write a letter to my senators and representatives encouraging them to support open development laws and homebrew. I don't expect them to act on it, but I'm not helping if I don't say anything.
 

bobson

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 28, 2008
Messages
1,674
It wouldn't be so much piracy as it is they've got data to prove it as well as far as flashcarts go (PCWorld Article). But everyone's in agreement, including the author of linked article, that they do need to open up their software though. Not just that, but bushing said himself that there were several ways to stop piracy altogether and contacted Nintendo to say what they were doing, and Nintendo flat out ignored them.
I've had a hunch for a long time that Nintendo has only been producing "homebrew-killer" updates to satisfy the shareholders who want them to "protect" their systems and this seems to give that idea more credence.
 

MaRRoK

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 20, 2009
Messages
207
Location
Los Angeles
I dont know about you guys, but I only became a pirate so I could break the law... now that its legal.. it just....i dont know.... it just doesnt seem worth it........ nothing seems worth it anymore..... im gonna go do my homework.

jp. in all seriousness, I'm going to do some more research. The open source development transition of videogame concosoles was inevitable, i just never thought it would happen so soon, and especially with the economy in the condition it is. but at the same time, I am glad that people are begining to use logic again. think about all the developments and hard work we have put into Brawl. imagine if we (or at least the main contributors) were compensated for their work? Itunes (ergo, Apple) has the exact open source programing policy that is ideal for the hacking community. applications are built from a build once aproved by the corporation, the application (game) is created with full artistic freedom of the artist, the game is aproved or denied by the corporation as being in compliance with all copyright and trade laws, the programer is compensated in direct corilation to the sucess of the application or program. Everyone profits as long as people actuially buy the applications.
 
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