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Why is Corneria banned?

Rybaia

Rybaia

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I'm not here to question the ban of Corneria.
Personally I hate this stage expecially for the Arwings, but I wanna know the reasons why it's banned.
It's just for the permanent wall or there are other reasons for the ban?
 
Kinzer

Kinzer

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As far as I know, it's the Arwings disrupting gameplay, and nobody has gone out of their way to make it public that they have a predictable pattern; meaning they fiyah lazahs at random, in random directions.

The permanent wall certainly doesn't help its case.

The stage having a low boundary line is not an excuse for it to be banned. In terms of counterpicking, it would be a perfectly legitimate counter for characters who can kill at a low %, or against really light characters who are not very resistant to knockback.
 
KillerJawz

KillerJawz

...
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I think it's the wall. It's VERY difficult to get out of a jab locks next to that wall, D3 can just camp down there until your forced to approach.
 
bobson

bobson

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Kinzer said:
As far as I know, it's the Arwings disrupting gameplay, and nobody has gone out of their way to make it public that they have a predictable pattern; meaning they fiyah lazahs at random, in random directions.
Click to expand...
While I wouldn't put it past someone to try and ban it for that, that's not at all the reason. The Arwings only appear in specific spots and have a fairly obvious sound every time they come down, and although the order they come in seems to be random, someone who's played on the stage a lot can "feel" where they are, so to speak.

The main argument for banning Corneria is the area behind the fin and everything it entails. Firstly, the spot itself offers a planking-like immediate positional advantage for anyone who wants to camp there, so it's usually the best idea to just run and camp there at the start of the match. This gives whoever happens to spawn on the right a random advantage right from the get-go. Camping that spot gives you a nice advantage in itself, but once they manage to get past you and on to the ground under it you can potentially gain an even greater advantage in the form of everything you can do to someone who's next to a wall; at this point, it becomes a battle of who can get the first lock on the wall. The blastzones are right next to you, too, so if you're locked against the wall you might as well kiss your stock goodbye unless your opponent screws up the lock somehow.

There's pretty much no disadvantage to camping the fin unless you're at a higher percent than they are, and the game tends to take place only on the right half of the screen once players realize how big of an advantage it is. Of course, there are a lot of other tricks that this stage offers, like rapid up-Bing into the fin ledge, bucketing/absorbing lasers, playing games in the laser corner on the left, abusing the close blastlines, landing grabs while on an Arwing, etc., but none of those are really problematic when you look at them, just normal functions of a CP stage. Personally I'm not convinced that fin camping is entirely broken, but I can understand if you don't want something like that in your tournament much more than I can understand banning a stage like Norfair.
 
Rybaia

Rybaia

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Kinzer said:
The stage having a low boundary line is not an excuse for it to be banned. In terms of counterpicking, it would be a perfectly legitimate counter for characters who can kill at a low %, or against really light characters who are not very resistant to knockback.
Click to expand...
I agree with this. I usually switch to Snake when someone chose this stage (usually G&W mains).
They chose this stage probably because of the kills at very low % ,the dtilt lock on the wall and they can bucket the lasers of both Arwing and Great Fox.

@Bobson: thanks for your contribute.
I also think that fin camping is broken expecially for some characters that have projectiles, expecially Snake with his nades, c4 and mortar, or have the possibility to wall infinite. They can just stand there and wait.
 
tsilver33

tsilver33

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As a Lucas main, I'm telling you right now that If you let us get near the bottom lasers just before they fire when were above 100%, we just basically got a stock back. This goes for Ness to. Everything has been covered as far as I can tell.
 
Overswarm

Overswarm

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bobson said:
While I wouldn't put it past someone to try and ban it for that, that's not at all the reason. The Arwings only appear in specific spots and have a fairly obvious sound every time they come down, and although the order they come in seems to be random, someone who's played on the stage a lot can "feel" where they are, so to speak.

The main argument for banning Corneria is the area behind the fin and everything it entails. Firstly, the spot itself offers a planking-like immediate positional advantage for anyone who wants to camp there, so it's usually the best idea to just run and camp there at the start of the match. This gives whoever happens to spawn on the right a random advantage right from the get-go. Camping that spot gives you a nice advantage in itself, but once they manage to get past you and on to the ground under it you can potentially gain an even greater advantage in the form of everything you can do to someone who's next to a wall; at this point, it becomes a battle of who can get the first lock on the wall. The blastzones are right next to you, too, so if you're locked against the wall you might as well kiss your stock goodbye unless your opponent screws up the lock somehow.

There's pretty much no disadvantage to camping the fin unless you're at a higher percent than they are, and the game tends to take place only on the right half of the screen once players realize how big of an advantage it is. Of course, there are a lot of other tricks that this stage offers, like rapid up-Bing into the fin ledge, bucketing/absorbing lasers, playing games in the laser corner on the left, abusing the close blastlines, landing grabs while on an Arwing, etc., but none of those are really problematic when you look at them, just normal functions of a CP stage. Personally I'm not convinced that fin camping is entirely broken, but I can understand if you don't want something like that in your tournament much more than I can understand banning a stage like Norfair.
Click to expand...
^ This

It's what we call "degenerative gameplay". It turns into a mini-game of sorts. This isn't like a momentary hazard you have to react to; this is an aspect of the stage you have to accept, and it is a large one. In addition to all this , some characters can camp on the guns allllllllll day. That gets irritating too.
 
Vlade

Vlade

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Matches always become focused on the area to the right of the fin. If your character doesn't have some sort of infinite/lock it is quite difficult to win when your opponent is just camping that area because they have such a huge positional advantage
 
Mike B

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If Corneria were legal, everyone would pick Dedede and race to camp the right section.
 
Mike B

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Who can pull up that 5-minute Japanese campfest on FD? One player was a Falco....
 
Bunny4Eva

Bunny4Eva

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Well it's banned because of the wall infinite (Even super DI still can't get out)
& then there's the super low celling on the top, 1Upsmash by G&W at 40-70% & you're dead even with DI.
Some characters such as DDD, G&W, & Olimar have massive advantages on that stage due to their ability to space/camp.
 
Mike B

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TheMike said:
G&W kills Jigglypuff with 15% using Uair. YES!
Click to expand...
If I were a GNW agains a Jigglypuff(****'s never going to happen), I'd just camp the lasers and forget about touching Jiggly til the bucket's full.
 
Jon Farron

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BEcause people like Ness and Lucas can camp behind the fin and spam pk thunder.

(That's what i do, lol)
 
bobson

bobson

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I read this thread and I understand why the SBR members keep the SBR private.
 
Kinzer

Kinzer

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Don't you mean smaller?

I dunno, maybe I'm crazy but the character sprites in Brawl seem bigger, or the stages got smaller. Maybe a combination of both too...
 
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