The *NEW* Snake Boards Stage Discussion (currently discussing Brinstar)

I decided to make this since the all of the old versions were inactive and no one was taking time to update them. I promise I'll update and help keep this active, as long others help me.

This is the older one that no one updated or kept up w/ http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=235461

We'll be doing all of the one that haven't been done by the old one above.

First we'll discuss something simple........
Summary:
Overall this stage is a great neutral for Snake.
-Tilting of stage is perfect for grenades.
-Tilting of stage at certain parts = messing w/ Peach's Float, Falco's lasers/Phantasm, plankers. -This maybe a small stage but camping is still possible here.
-Vertical Death Boundaries are very close, which means easy Bair, Fthrow, and Ftilt kills.
-Nades can be bouced off of Shy Guys.
-Don't land w/ aerials on the platforms (obvious)
-Nades slide off of the both sides of the stage. (Cook nades let them slide off and use them for Edge Guarding)
-Thunderstroming does not work here (SH D-air laglessly), such as Ganon or Pikachu.
-With the use of D-smash, C4, and Nades the long platform in the middle is a sort of "barrier".
-U-air, B-air, N-air and U-tilt are great for Platform Pressuring.
-Long platform allows for easier approach (for Snake), if ever need. Such as against Mario.
-Try not to stay on the long platform for very long, this lead to juggeling etc.
-Stay grounded.
-Hard toss most Nades that are thrown out , otherwise they'll end up getting stuck on the platform.
-On this stage like most other small stage, such as SV or BF, cooking your nades will help you camp, and avoid CQC. (not that Snake's bad @ CQC or anything)
-At high percents do not tech the walls. (It'll help Snake recover).
C4/Mine placement:
-Place Mines or C4 towards the tips of the platforms.
-Place Mines/C4s on the portion of the stage that slightly tilts inward. This will help w/ Edguarding and aid in stopping appraoches.
-Also, for edge guarding place Mine/C4s on the very tips of the stage , which points outward.

Everyone not listed under character lists (to take/not to take lists) are undecided.

Character to take here:
-Falco
-R.O.B.
-Bowser
-Ganon
-Lucas
-GW


Characters not to take here:
-Olimar
-Lucario
-Link (harder to gimp here)
-Marth
-Kirby
-MK
-DK

Overall Ratio: 7/10


Summary for 1st portion:
1st part of the stage is small, you can get really early kills here.

1st phase: The lips can ruin a lot of recoveries, use that to your advantage against those chars. C4 is fairly difficult to see, as nades can be. The slant lets nades drop down, so you can be tricky with that. fairly low ceiling allows for early utilt KOs if you can rack up damage fast enough or if you get back to the phase with opponent at high %. The slant allows you to dodge some projectiles easier.

1st part : It's good for Snake although it's too small but it's
good for grenades. You can let the grenade slide to the slant
part. You can put C4 (Down launch) on top of a platform.
It's a great advantage against big targets and characters
like Donkey Kong, Ganondorf, Bowser. Snake's up tilt
is also good for this. When an enemy is on top of the
top of the platform, use the up tilt. But Snake can be knocked off
the stage easily because it's small. (Despite him being heavy
but at some percent maybe 50% or above.) Avoid using
Snake's recovery in this part.




Summary for 2nd portion:
2nd part of the stage, if you can grab them near the edges, dthrow tech chasing is really easy. They'll almost always roll away from the walk-off. Camping here is somewhat more difficult though, as the statues stop your grenades.

2nd phase: Great part to be sneaky with C4. Plant it while your opponent is distracted OR in between the transition and let it fall and figure out where it is to bait your opponent into it. The pillar things are good and bad depending on the matchup. It helps against Diddy to stop bananas, but stops your camping game too. If you're playing DDD or low % vs Falco, don't be stupid and stay off the ground floor or free stock for opponent. The ceiling from the ground is REALLY high so don't waste an attempted utilt KO that you aren't sure will KO unless on a platform. As said, tech chasing is easier on this phase if you're on the ground. As said, most opponents will roll away from the blast zone when grabbed near there for fear of easy ftilt KO. If not they may just get up attack, so be prepared and punish. Your opponent may try to KO you in a similar way here too, so be careful when close to the blast zone. Don't get out smarted. Definitely the most gimmicky phase.


Summary for 3rd portion:
3rd part of the stage is a lot like FD. Just play like you would on FD, and watch the stage's tilt when recovering.

3rd part: This is a good place for Snake too. Grenade stripping
here is the best thing to do. It will roll though the
ground (Best if cooked). Put C4s here is great especially
at the time when the stage is slanting. The
best place to put it is that the tip of the stage.
Use grenade stripping to make it explode but it's
useless against people with controlled
projectiles or stuff.

Overall: It's a good stage for Snake but don't think
that you will win for sure and you have the upper
hand or something. Your battling someone who's
better than you, you're dead or not.

Character to take here:
-MK
-Mario
-Link
-DK(?)
-Ganon
-TL
-Samus
-Zamus
-Lucario
-Marth
-Ike
-Lucas
-Sonic
-Ness
-Jiggs
-Bowser
-Pit
-R.O.B.

Characters not to take here:
-DDD, Diddy, Pikachu, Falco (CG walkoff gayness)
-

Neutral to take here:
-GW
-Luigi
-Peach
-Yoshi
-Wario
-Sheik
-Kirby
-Fox
-Wolf
-Pikachu
-Pokemon Trainer
-Snake (obviously)

Overall Ratio: 8/10

Summary:


Characters to take here:


Characters not to take here:


K, here's a stage....that's gonna take a while to discuss.








Summary:
-Snake doesn't do to well with the multiple transformations.
-The Dead Tree poration is pratty bad, because of the wall the tree creates (infinite CG, semi-locks, etc.).
-Some of the transformations have semi-locks.
-The Water stage's Windmill is a lot of trouble for Snake; he can easily get juggled there, and easily die there. Stay away from the windmill at death percents.
-Rock stage is pretty bad for Snake; Snake can't really "camp" here....and the other player will not appraoche you if you stand in the middle or the far right.
-The foreat portions is probably the best for snake it has 3 platforms the help snake get kills.
-Snake has trouble w/ character that can easily juggles him, and characters that have good mobilty
-
C4/Mine placement:
-Lip of stage (C4 can hit people).
-Any platform.

Characters to take here:
-Lucas
-ness
-Ike
-Lucario
-PT
-Falcon
-Pit
-ZSS
-Toon link
-ganon
-Zelda/shiek
-Link
-Yoshi
-DK
-bowser
-Luigi
-Mario
Characters not to take here:
-Diddy (?)
-DDD
-Falco
-Wario (?)
-Peach
-MK
-Olimar
-Fox (?)
-Pikachu
-Marth
-G&W
-Sonic
-Kirby
-ICs
Any transform specific Trixies/AT's:
-F-smash will cancel if used during a transformation.
-F-tilt someone against a wall, then follw S.D.I.
-Stick the a wall.
-F or B-throw toward a wall > follow SDI.

Overall Ratio: 6.5/10 (?)

Summary:
-Amazing for camping.
-No platforms=Stronger ground game needed.
-No platforms also mean a higher possibility of being juggled.
-Snake D.I. Limit is prety high;around 180% to 200% with good D.I./spacing.
-Big "Lip" to **** our recovery or help it if you tech the stage after C4-ing your self.
-DACUS/DA/U-Smash are perfect for this stage!
-Stay away from the edges unless your edge-guarding.
-Control the dead center of the stage.
-and that's it, this stage is pretty straight forward, other things having to do with stage will come with experience.

C4/Mine placement:
Any where

Everyone not listed under character lists (to take/not to take lists) are undecided.
Character to take here:
-*Marth
-*Falco
-Luigi
-Peach
-Bowser
-Donkey Kong
-Diddy
-Yoshi
-*Wario
-Link
-Zelda
-Sheik
-Ganondorf
-*TL
-Sasmus
-ZSS
-ROB
-Kirby
-MK
-Fox
-Wolf
-Cpt. Falcon
-*Pikachu
-Pokemon Trainer
-Lucario
-Jiggz
-Ike
-Ness
-Lucas
-G&w
-Sonic

Characters not to take here:
-*Marth
-*Falco
-Mario (It's pointless, he'll jump over everything and shoot fireballz)
-*Wario
-*TL
-Pit
-IC
-Olimar
-*Pikachu
-King DeDeDe

*-The Astrid means...that this character is on both because....it depends on the player opinion. (Go where ever you feel more comfortable)

Overall Ratio:8.5/10

Summary:
The Ship:
-Considered the worst portion of RC.
-Difficult to Tech Chase
-Difficult to use Mines/C4, like on normal stages.
-The wall is the last place you want to get caught.
-Most of Snake's normal game play is "weakened" here.
-Small area, which allows Snake to have good stage control.
-DCAUS straight into the wall cause you Mortar to blow up on the wall.
The Accent:
-This portion is also another difficult for Snake there is a lot to adapt to.
-C4s and Mines work great here.
-Stay away from left when going up, it's pretty much a walk off.
-***remember you cannot fall through all platforms.
-Also, learn to adapt to the accent as you fight your opponent, this will come with practice.
The pendulum:
-***Remember you can fall through it.
-It's best to control the Falling Blocks.
Side Scrolling:
-Best portion of the stage for Snake.
-Use mines, U-tilt, and C4 here these moves will kill extremely early here due to the LOW ceiling.
-Adapt to the moving stage
-This is a lot better than the ship, so using all of Snake's moves here will be a lot better.


C4/Mine placement:
The Ship:
-The 2 small platforms.
-Towards the back of the ship.
The Accent:
-Pretty much anywhere.
The Side Scrolling:
-Platforms



Everyone not listed under character lists (to take/not to take lists) are undecided.
Character to take here:
-Diddy Kong
-Mario
-Luigi
-Peach
-Bowser
-DK
-Yoshi
-Link
-Zelda
-Shiek
-Ganon
-TL
-Samus
-Cpt Falcon
-Ike
-Ness
-Lucas
-ICs

Characters not to take here:
-MK
-G&W
-Wario
-DDD
-Kirby
-

Overall Ratio:5.5/10

Green Greens​

Summary:
- Learn to tech on reaction, if you don't your gonna get combo'ed HARD. Also, mix it up, tech tech jumps or don't tech on purpose.
- Getting hit by falling blocks = Spiked
- No matter what control the center of the stage.
- Small vertical death zones = killing earlier, and dieing earlier.
- Lower ceiling = Killing earlier.
- Use nades to blow up explosive blocks this = pressure and getting kills.
- Snake can destroys the blocks with Utilt and Ftilt (for it ftilt depends)
- Side-b is pretty decent here.
- Be careful with DA / DACUS here, this will get you blown up.
- If the blocks have completely made the wall they make, set up explosives and crouches close to them. (if you opponent doesn't have items to throw)
- Wind boxes are great if your in the middle, because they're the ultimate pressure; but if your on the left or right sides of the stage and these are going expect to gain A LOT of damage or maybe even lose a stock.
- Apples these can heal a bit, but more importantly they are great items! If they hit a shield they have a lot of shield stun, and other wise they kill pretty D*** early. Once apples are out...you want to incorporate them w/ your grenades this equals, this is amazing stage control.
- U-smash can do wonders here it'll help you keep pressure on you opponent and help you keep control of the stage.





C4/Mine placement:
- On blocks
- Platforms (this is great for pressure and keeping your opponent at the left/right portions of the stage).
- The Left/right portions of the stage.
- pretty much anywhere, except for the dead center of the stage (between the two platforms).






Everyone not listed under character lists (to take/not to take lists) are undecided.If someone is listed twice it's which ever you feel more comfortable with.
Character to take here:
- MK
- Mario
- Luigi
- Peach
- Bowser
- Yoshi
- Link
- Sheik
- Zelda
- Ganon
- Toon Link
- Samus
- ZSS
- ROB
- Wolf
- Falcon
- Pikachu
- Pokemon Trainer
- Marth
- Ike
- Lucas
- Ness
- Sonic



Characters not to take here:
- MK
- G&W- Ban this against him.
- DDD-Ban this against him.
- Falco- Ban this against him?
- Diddy Kong
-
-

Overall Ratio:7.5/10


Summary:




C4/Mine placement:




Everyone not listed under character lists (to take/not to take lists) are undecided.If someone is listed twice it's which ever you feel more comfortable with.
Character to take here:






Characters not to take here:






Overall Ratio:?/10










Discuss!
Have at it, I'll help along the way.

- <3 from Mizu​

Cool thread dude

Sadly I've NEVER played in Yoshi's Island so x_x

stage tilts at points, abuse with nades. great stage to mess with characters with very linear horizontal playstyles. peach float. falco phantasm, lasers. perk' people dont go understage. easier to edgeguard certain plankers mk, pit, etc. iwill type more when not text limited by psp

How about putting C4s or mines on the tip of the platforms?

When C4 recovering at a really high damage, aim for the vertical walls of Yoshis, and dont tech it, you will bounce up an away so that you will be far away from your opponent and you can recover high.

Also you can throw nades down on the turning platform and the slopes on the ground and get bounces at angles, which can help in edgeguarding.

The side boundaries I find are pretty short, so you can get bair kills easier.

Yoshi's Island. eh?

There's not a lot to say about this stage.


- You can bounce nades off shy guys if you feel it might help.

- Hiding under the platform and setting C4s/nades/etc around it limits the options your opponent has to approach and can make their approach predictable. The platform is kind of like a barrier of sorts.

- If you're full hop nairing from the bottom level, don't land on the top level unless you want to get punished (should be obvious, but eh, I've seen people do it for some reason).

-As said before, nades slide off the side of the stage and can be helpful for ledge guarding. I believe they slide on the platform if it's tilted enough too... I could be wrong though.

-Characters who like to "thunderstorm" (short hop down-air laglessly) like Ganon or Pikachu get screwed up by the awkward tilts in the stage, making that tactic harder to use and easier to punish. Not that you'll be facing a Ganon in tourney, and Pikachu has other options anyway. Worth noting anyway, I guess.



There's really not much to say here. Flat stage with a platform on it. We all know how to play neutrals fairly well I think.

I hate this stage... Shy Guys that screw up hitboxes are so annoying.

But it's not all bad. You can do some pretty crazy nade tricks on it.

this is my worst neutral stage by far...i hate everything about this dumb stage.

tht platform is gay...the slants are stupid....i really hope someone can explain how to play on this stage tht way i could get a little bit better.

I would say the same.....this is probably my worst...neutral. This is another good reason to discuss it.

Since Velox's thread is locked, some1 should copypasta the summaries unto the OP here, and make a writeup of Castle Siege.

It's not the worst, it just depends upon how you look at it. Yes, the stage tilts a lot, it has platforms that pop up to help out people recovering, but you just need to make the stage work in your favor.

The stage actually works very much in Snake's favor. He has very good zoning directly in front of him. The long platform above the center of the stage helps to give Snake the edge. Due to the fact that the platform is very long, it helps protect Snake very overhead assults.

If you ever play Mario on FD, occasionally you might see a mario adopt the idea to use the flat stage to his advantage. By double jumping up high and coming down with fireballs gives him a very good approach or defence. THis tactic also avoids Snakes grenades by jumping up high. Fireballs get in your way, and because they get in your way it hampers any movements you make giving him free access to come back down.

Other characters take advantage of these high flying strategies at times, but not a ton. However, it is nice to know that this large platform gives you half way decent protection against an angle of attack you no longer have to fully commit to focusing on. You simply have to worry about that small zone in front of you. Which leads to my next point about the stage and platform.

Platforms in general known to give a disadvantage to many a character on top of it, while an advantage to the ones below them. You get the advantage because if you are on the platform you only have very few options. Being on a platform is naturally most characters weakpoints due to them having no defence against being hit from below. Plus, trying to attack from a platform has it's risks that many people do not have the proper tools to use to make it safe.

All in all, the platform will act as a funnel. It will try generally push people into a low aerial or grounded approach. And Snake is great in these areas due to his range of his attacks.

The negative of the platform that it will **** Snake if you get caught on top of it. The lesson I would say to people to using this stage is to stay grounded, do not go on top of the platform ever. And always try to keep people in front of you. Never directly over head.

Another negative of the platform is that it messes up with Snake's grenades and Mortars. Mortars underneath when the opponent is already grounded is useless.

You have to be a bit more savvy about the grenades than normal. Due to the platform, you can no longer short toss or normal toss grenades like usual. They end up on the platform. {This can be corrected however with the use of cooking and throwing them. But to do so means you have to cook the nade with near pin point accuracy to the end of it's life span to explode where you want it. The disadvantage to that is you are now holding onto a grenade for a full 3 seconds. Hardly ever will you get three seconds to cook a perfectly good grenade. The advantage of short toss or regular toss is that it would typically land in the area you wanted it to and explode by the time it got there by only having to cook it for like a second.} To use grenades effectively here you have to expect grenades to function slightly differently. When a grenade is placed on top of the stage view it as a sign that people will more than likely not be trying to approach you from ground. Also, due to the rise and fall of the main stage, try to hard toss. You are more likely to hit your opponent if they are short. Plus, by hitting the opponent it will stop with almost the same function as short/mid tosses would have. You can however use the tilting fo the the stage to your advantage. By short/mid tossing when the slant is angled it will cause the nade to roll towards that area. Apply that when it can be applyed.

Umm... Sorry for the short summary, but that is about all I can really think of right now.

Question:
Would it matter if I copied and pasted quotes......or summarized it?

The nades can get stuck on the middle platform. That can mess up camping >_>

First of all, OP updated w/ Summary for Yoshi's.
Someone read it, and tell me if there is anything else that need to be added.

Second, discuss what characters Snake should and should not take to Yoshi's......................Also, we need to discuss characters Snake should and should not take to Castle Siege.

Someone start these 2 things for me and I'll add to them.

dont take DDD, Falco, Diddy, or Pikachu to Castle Siege, they can cg walkoff you,

Xeylode said:

And if you ever find yourself in the situation where you are CPed there, simply camp on the upper levels of that section of the stage. ESPICALLY AGAINST DDD!

Click to expand...

no you shouldn't, being above chars is bad, although against DDD isnt so bad since DDD cant really do anything to you.

I rather get really close to the blastzone, if they try to cg me, avoid it, grab them back, and bthrow for the kill

Are you guys sure about.....those characters for
Castle Siege?
And what characters should we and shouldn't we take to Yoshi's?
Discuss some more......


I'd help, but i'm in school (in lunch) and i'm running out of time.

don't take olimar to yoshi's, he can abuse the slopes for some redic b-throw kills, I guess Lucario too since he can wallcling from upb fairly easily.

I'd take Falco there since it will screw with his IAP and lasers sometimes. Ganon and Pika too to screw up their autocanceled dairs. ROB is a good pick since the stage is relatively small plus he cant go under the stage, so less camping, plus you can abuse that platform against him. by staying under it, and he'll have to land on the sides so closer to the death boundaries.


edit: its kinda sad to see the old stage discussion closed and moving further down the threads.

I kind of get the imagery of the Nordic Viking funeral where a dead general and all his treasure is put unto a burning boat as it drift further and further away from the coast...

its... pretty sad...

Sry.....I have to write a paper so it'll be a while before I can help in the discussion....or edit the OP.

I should be done in bout........2 hrs. >: (
Stupid School.

i think sometimes you cant do lagless djnair on yoshis island

I dont like this stage and dont play on it often so I cant really contribute much. I guess its good for camping that platform with nades and the c4 and the angles are good for bouncing/stripping nades if you learn it.

mofo_ said:

i think sometimes you cant do lagless djnair on yoshis island

Click to expand...

You can do that anywhere.

OP updated!
Please check new info and tell me if you disagree or discuss.

oops i meant sometimes you can do a fulljump nair lagless. from the edges going in

Take a look at under Yoshi's I put some mor stuff....and I want feedback.
TY

K, I wrote that. Did you take a look at everthing else?

Yoshi's island (brawl) hurts snakes recovery, it is easier for someone to punish snake coming from the side or from above the stage due to the long platform. It isn't a bad stage, just that there's stages to pick & CP that are much more suitabl for snakes game.

The invincibility frames triggering the mines towards the edge of the stage sucks. Its not that big of a deal (since on most stages I wouldn't place mines at the very edge of the stage,) but on yoshi island you don't have anywhere to really put it because you don't have that much room 2 work with without blocking the walkway.

Alright guys I know it's been a while since I worked on this.....SRY.
Anyway, OP updated! I fell like we're done w/ Yoshi's and also it wasn't going anywhere since we got the main points.

We're now discussing Jungle Japes.

ahhh.....k.

hmmmm interesting, how many other places is it banned in?

Edit: Forget Japes and the question above. I thinks it's banned in many places.

Edit edit: I was looking over older thread.....and there's nothing for Pokemon Stadium 1.
So....we're going to skip Japes for now ....and do Pokemon Stadium 1.

i dont like ps1. i think snake struggles to deal with the multiple transformations more than other characters. when its in its neutral form its kinda like fd with a few platforms, and actually works really well for snake; camping under/near the platforms is easy, as is using them like you do in bf to punish and stop aerial approaches. but then theres some gayness afterwards.

the tree is dangerous because its a wall that you can be cg-ed or dtilt locked against. stick to one side and camp to stop the other person getting over. alternatively, remember a number of your moves can go through it to punish obvious approaches.

the windmill is stupid in this game. they tried to fix it from melee but made it worse. avoid at all costs unless your at death percents, cause snake gets juggled to death here. but teching can help you live if youre almost dead anyway. and the unevenness of the stage makes jabbing and grabbing more difficult than they should be too.

the rock is also stupid; try and go to the right and camp. the other person will rarely approach. dont go in the middle. ever. you will get comboed to hell and back.

the forest part isnt that bad, just watch out for the unevenness in the middle. the platforms and trees help you get the kill upon landing, and your fsmash will hit a large number of characters under you. this would be one of your better sections.

so yeah, i dont like most of this stage. i dont think id ever really use it as a cp, but i know diddy and other high mobility characters like to take us here. so i suppose in summary, stay active will its neutral, and slow down your play when it transforms, cause most characters enjoy the gayness more than we do.

on a side note, i also wanted to mention a few things about YI, seems apparently i missed the discussion. namely regarding the unevenness of the stage (which wasnt mentioned in the summary). firstly, jabs and grabs wont hit a number of characters when theyre in the middle, edges, or have just got up from the ledge, which actually limits our options somewhat, and serves as the main reason i hate this stage. on a more positive note, however, if you fh nair from one of the high parts into the middle, it will ac, allowing you to counter their counter or shield or whatever.

One word PLATFORMS!

don't take DDD or characters with good wall infinites here obviously, I do really like this stage in some matchups, I think it's great against marth and pretty good against MK(great camping and some transforms make it hard for him to space you but his dtilt on walls is beast)