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Would learning a high tier character make me a better player?

Dark.Pch

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Kinda going through a problem that I had for a long time. And I am starting to get sick about how it is costing me matches.

When it comes to smash I don't like losing the way I do. I was doing just fine in a match and winning and for no reason at all, I decided to play aggressive. I was not getting abused at all for what I was doing. I was doing fine. And I seriously hate playing like that unless I have too. I was winning so no need to switch up how I was playing unless I get abused for it. But I tend to do it anyway. And lose. Alot cause of this.

My friend told me one reason it might be. it is cause I get tired of playing my usual style. And I think he is on to something. My style when on point does damage. But I can't keep it up for long. I tend to get tired cause the way I play is hard. So I think my momentum dies after a while. And I start to play aggressive, and get beat up. and when I do. I have no mindgames or if I do, weak as hell mindgames.And I tend to do the same stuff all the time.

NinjaLink and bum have told me about me losing it for no reason all the time, they notice that when they see me play people. I just lose my momentum and bad for no reason at all. I lost to NinjaLink in tournament this way when I could have won that set. When I play I use up to much mental focus a cause I usually the mindgame type. I love to mess with peoples heads. I uses the info I know about a match up. Then created ways to deal with it. then thoses in the mindgames and randomness. Thus makes me a beast and start beatin people. But once my mind starts getting abuse to much by this, I guess you can say it over heats. and my game gets weak. Only way I can really explain it.

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That's pretty much my problem. I'm pretty sure there is nothing else holding me back from ****** in tournaments or even taking first in tournies. At this point of my time playing this game, I'm ready to do it. Just brush up on a few match ups to make sure I got them down and thats about it. I'm about on the final stage to doing beast things with this character. But with this problem I have, I don't see myself doing well.

So I was wondering, if I picked up a better character, would that help me with this problem I have? And no I would not use them to counterpick in tournaments. I go all Peach and the only reason I even touch this game. If Peach was not in it, I not play it. ButI wanna know if learning better characters would rid this problem I have.

I would assume if I play with a character I have an easier time winning with, I won't have to over think so much. Thus I get use to think as much as if I was Peach. So then when I go back to using Peach and hacking it, my mind won't die out. I can keep going. As if Peach is actually better than she really is.

I only use Peach so I wanna know how others feel when they use other characters better than thier main. Then go back to thier main. Are you boys at ease and can keep focus alot? I have never actually experienced high tier level play in my hands before. Never actually took the times to learn the better characters of the game. I think Bum told me one time it was a good idea to do that. Cause I could learn more stuff as a player and then be better with my main.

Oh and if it is a good idea and would help me, my character of choice is Pikachu. Not sure how much he would help but he is a good character than Peach and seems fun.
 

phi1ny3

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^Agreed.

Sometimes getting better versions of tools helps you understand what you have to bridge across to compensate for the shortcomings of the old character's limited tools, and thus helps you play them more effectively.

It's definitely your call, imo you really have to pick a character though that accentuates your strengths, or play the character to fit your needs. This is why many get frustrated when they pick hastily just to get better chances at the game, took me a serious revisiting before I got used to Snake after doing Lucario, picking snake up and miserably failing but learning the basics, going back to Lucario to retool, then coming back again to pay attention to the details to improve both characters.
 
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Learning from your mistakes makes you a better player.

If you want to get better, just screw around with your character until controlling him becomes second nature. Once that happens, just look at your opponent for the whole match.

With some experience, you'll start seeing your mistakes, and you'll be able to adapt.
 

LanceStern

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I main Samus but used to main D3 and come back to him from time to time, and I go to Peach some time.

All in all I'd say using a higher character will get you better results, I'm not so sure about making you a better player. It definitely helps you become better at spacing and repositioning yourself because once you step down from that high tier back to a lower tier and realize there are things you can't get away with, you are a lot more careful.

But if you have or are mastering a character, stick to them and learn to not overheat your brain.
 

M@v

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Learning how other characters operate helps you be better prepared to fight them.

In my opinion:

Can Peach go alone in tourneys and place decent? Hell yes

Can Peach go alone in large tourneys and place decent? yes

Can Peach go alone in tourneys and win? Theres a chance

Can Peach go alone in large tourneys and win? Hell the **** no.

If you want to go all the way, Peach needs help, whether you use her and master a secondary character thats good(in your case pikachu) and do well. My best advice is pick a character that can combat Peach's bad matchups. But yeah if your looking into pikachu, all I can say is look at Anther.
 

dawall250

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he doesn't want to use pikachu as a counterpick, but rather to go all peach.

also, i personally think its a great idea to have another character to cool off with. i'm a ddd main, and sometimes when i just am feeling lackluster with him, i go play lucario for a while. just having another character to play around with and have fun with can really cool you off, and doing that definitely refreshes me.
 

BSP

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I think it would be good if you picked up a second. I kinda feel the same,, because when i use the same character constantly for a while, i start to feel that momentum decrease that you were talking about. Like everyone else said, learning a new character will help you to get better.
 

Kuraudo

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Don't give up on your main, but it doesn't hurt to pick up someone else and get good with them. I'm an adamant Sonic main, but for quite a while I used King Dedede and Meta Knight. Now I'm back to Sonic and I'm better than ever. For you, the same thing can happen.
 

Dark.Pch

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Learning how other characters operate helps you be better prepared to fight them.

In my opinion:

Can Peach go alone in tourneys and place decent? Hell yes

Can Peach go alone in large tourneys and place decent? yes

Can Peach go alone in tourneys and win? Theres a chance

Can Peach go alone in large tourneys and win? Hell the **** no.

If you want to go all the way, Peach needs help, whether you use her and master a secondary character thats good(in your case pikachu) and do well. My best advice is pick a character that can combat Peach's bad matchups. But yeah if your looking into pikachu, all I can say is look at Anther.
I don't agree with that. And as I said before, I don't play this game to counterpick characters to get far. Wether you wanna believe it or not, Peach can do it alone. I have never felt I could not beat top players. With Peach it is not about characters. Cause no character in this game scares me to thinking I can't win. No matter how gay they play. But if my opponent wants to think that, let them. Makes it less difficult to win. I have said all this many times before.

My Peach does not need any counterpicks for match ups. I got it. the problem now is what I said in the OP. Once I take care of that, I'm good to beat just about anyone. Cause I am already to work my butt off to do so.

I wanted to know if learning a better character would rid this personal problem I have.
 

Matador

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lol @ all the people misreading the OP.

Yeah, I'd have to agree with Bum and Ninjalink. If you play another character, especially one like Pika, it'll take care of your more aggressive needs. Some higher tier characters can get away with it alot easier than some lower tier characters, and Pika's one of them.

You should pick him up for awhile.
 

Noobicidal

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Honestly, maining a character who is forced to play patiently and fails miserably when played offensively such as Ganon will make you a better player. In order to have ANY success while playing as him, you have to learn your opponent's patterns, their play style, how to react to massive shield and projectile pressure, how to bait effectively, and most importantly, learn to stay calm during the entire process.

If nothing else, you'll get a massive boost from your tech-chasing game due to lulzy Gerudo shenanigans.


/obligatory Ganon plug
 

Dark.Pch

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Honestly, maining a character who is forced to play patiently and fails miserably when played offensively such as Ganon will make you a better player. In order to have ANY success while playing as him, you have to learn your opponent's patterns, their play style, how to react to massive shield and projectile pressure, how to bait effectively, and most importantly, learn to stay calm during the entire process.

If nothing else, you'll get a massive boost from your tech-chasing game due to lulzy Gerudo shenanigans.


/obligatory Ganon plug
I have noticed this. I was using ganon against a friend of mind and I was really patient. I have messed with other character before. But not too much. Here is what I noticed when I went back to Peach

Marth- My reaction increase and can easily abuse people when they roll or can tell when/ where they will roll and grab/punish. Even if they don't have a rolling habit. I can force them to roll and quickly react to it and punish.

Ganon- As you said just now. And my defensive game has improved a lil.

Meta- Able to make quick desicions.

 

-Ran

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In the words of Captain Falcon...
YES!

The thing that stunts most player's growth is character allegiance. For whatever reason, people attach themselves to a character and attempt to make the character fit the style they wish to play, even if it is an ill fit. You seem to be at the stage where it's time to branch out and give different characters a shot. At the very least, the time you spend bouncing around to different characters will give you a valuable insight to the meta-game of characters that you typically see in tournament.

Learning new characters will never do you wrong in Smash, or any fighting game as long as you learn a character that will have relevant experiences to teach you.
 

St. Viers

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I'd say that if your only problem is losing momentum and losing control of the match (after switching from your usual style to aggressive), then I'd say just *practice* staying on point. I have that problem with doc in melee. I can play Doc as if I wanted to win, or I can play him aggressively. However, aggressive doc loses, for the same reason aggressive peach in brawl loses.

So now I play doc like I should play doc, and mess around with other characters when I wanna switch it up, rather than getting into bad habits with doc. So if that's what you want, go ahead, and pick up a character that you can play differently with, and keep you peach how she should be. Also, playing other character/getting good with them will help you go aggro better when you use peach, because it gives you a better grasp of the fundamentals of the game.

Disclaimer: I have no talent for the game, so perhaps this advice isn't right for you.
 

Kewkky

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I know you like Peach a lot, and you're going to stay with her until 2012 comes and we all die, but... Learning a better character will, in turn, help you place better. The difference between what options a higher-tiered character gives you and what a mid-tier character has is pretty noticeable, enough to set them apart on different tier lists (that means a lot). I know Peach is a good character, believe me (I play and see Excel_Zero play all the time), but at times he himself feels that Peach just can't cut it, and changes to another character (mainly MK). He does way freakin' better in those hard MUs where he would otherwise have gotten beat.

I know you said you don't want a character for counterpicking, but at least learn one that "feels right" that's on the higher tiers so you can split up your needs: Play aggressive with him, and play peachy with Peach. Who knows? Maybe you'll find yourself playing with a random guy who used Peach's worst MU against you, and your higher-tiered character has a favorable MU if played aggressively, so you end up killing two birds with one stone.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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Maybe try Zelda, well you have already but try her some more. Her aggressive game is terrible, but her defensive game is actually pretty good. With her you need to be patient and try and play a baiting game with her defensive options.

Ganondorf or Pikachu are nice ideas as well.

Also stick to your main, if people say they can't win large tournaments, oh well keep playing it out. You've placed very extremely high at larger tournaments with Peach.
 

AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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It seems to me that you don't have the mental capacity that is needed to be able to play consistently at a high level. It seems to me as though you suffer from several mental lapses through out your matches and that causes you to lose. Will switching to a better character prevent these mental lapses? More than likely not. So my advise to you is to watch videos of your matches and see at what points you start to have these mental lapse and ask your self why am I doing this things of that nature. Switching characters isn't a cure for breaking bad habits. At least In my opinion it isn't.
 

Dark.Pch

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It seems to me that you don't have the mental capacity that is needed to be able to play consistently at a high level. It seems to me as though you suffer from several mental lapses through out your matches and that causes you to lose. Will switching to a better character prevent these mental lapses? More than likely not. So my advise to you is to watch videos of your matches and see at what points you start to have these mental lapse and ask your self why am I doing this things of that nature. Switching characters isn't a cure for breaking bad habits. At least In my opinion it isn't.
That seems to make alot of sense. But the thing is, this problem happens for no reason. I'm doing just fine and just lose it out of random.

And I hardly get myself recorded in tournament matches to have the option to look at myself.
 

AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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That seems to make alot of sense. But the thing is, this problem happens for no reason. I'm doing just fine and just lose it out of random.

And I hardly get myself recorded in tournament matches to have the option to look at myself.
You need to start get matches recorded. Play online do some ladder matches on AiB get those record hell record some friendlies and see if you have that same problem.
 

Bead

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I think i'm where you are. When i begin to focus i usually win but i get tired and just put on auto pilot. Really just conditioning your brain to keep on going is all i can really say. Practice a little everyday. Push your brain to the limit then take an hour break or something, then try again. After a while you should be able to hold focus longer. The brain is a muscle to.

While playing other characters lets you know how to play the game better and figure out what moves are good, safe, ect... Identify your weakness and work around it. I main wolf so i know what crappy recovery is like, but to make up for that i work on DI and mixing up the ways i can recover. I'm also prone to getting chain grab due to fast fall speed. Timing with reflector can get me out of that and avoiding getting grabbed all together (lots of blaster). I don't know much about Peach but find out what her weakness's are and turn them into strengths.
 

Anther

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Learning a better character does in the end, makes you a better player, ask anyone that plays mk =p.
Most people define being good as being able to beat more people than other people, and switching characters does allow for that. Being at a higher level means that the variance you'll feel from such a thing will be drastically lower, since there are less people that you can't beat, and as long as you don't go on auto-pilot with the high tier, you learn all sorts of new openings that might be a lot more subtle for your regular character.
Don't do drugs.
In the end, a lot of the times it will be your character choice that makes you lose when you don't play a high tier, whether you like it or not. You're dealing and overcoming weaknesses the other player doesn't even dream of facing, weaknesses that are more crippling and detriment to winning a match, and usually at a much higher quantity. Dat's life... of the low tier.
 

Dekar173

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It's not just YOU doing poorly btw, that's an awfully narcissistic thought to think that it's just you doing poorly and your opponents capitalizing on it-

they're outplaying you.
 

Dark.Pch

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Learning a better character does in the end, makes you a better player, ask anyone that plays mk =p.
Most people define being good as being able to beat more people than other people, and switching characters does allow for that. Being at a higher level means that the variance you'll feel from such a thing will be drastically lower, since there are less people that you can't beat, and as long as you don't go on auto-pilot with the high tier, you learn all sorts of new openings that might be a lot more subtle for your regular character.
Don't do drugs.
In the end, a lot of the times it will be your character choice that makes you lose when you don't play a high tier, whether you like it or not. You're dealing and overcoming weaknesses the other player doesn't even dream of facing, weaknesses that are more crippling and detriment to winning a match, and usually at a much higher quantity. Dat's life... of the low tier.

I don't blame my character for my loses. I blame myself. it was my choice to main Peach. And I knew all that would come with it. So blaming my character for my loses (in this case, Peach) is stupid. All the matches I have lost I am able to win them with my character. So there is no excuse for that. I'm the blame.
 

Anther

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Naw, even if you're evenly skilled with all of your opponents, char stats play a huge role on your chances of winning or not. In fact, you're flipping a coin with the odds solely based on your character, and maybe heart can influence it a little but, but it's going to be that gimp that changes the game >.>.
I'm glad you place the blame on your playing as opposed to blaming the character, which is the right path,.. and I'm not saying to blame the character, but there's a certain truth to the fact that regardless of the fact that it's your choice to pick the baseball bat in a sword fight. Yes you can beat everybody, but it just isn't as deadly as a sword. Yeah you could've covered every additional weakness you have because you're playing peach vs a supposedly better character, but just having it means you're not going to win as often unless you get vastly better.

You might be losing to people you're mentally better than, but the fact that you have to exhaust so much mental effort just to keep up because of the more concentration you have to spend on the game can play into things. I don't even think peach is that disadvantaged, but I constantly see you and other good peaches like mikey and such lose to random little things in high level matches that just simply wouldn't kill your opponent if they made a mistake on a similar level.

But I say eff it to all that anyway and just play to get better and not worry when things go wrong, it's a game, get better, pay attention to yourself while you're playing, and realize those moments on your own. You know when they're happening and if you aren't making them up as an excuse, then you can realize them in the middle and calm down hopefully. I think that's how the brain works anyway..
 

Merce

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I have the same mental lapses that you have that nearly every person does. It is immensely difficult to focus on the flow of your character and the opponent for extended periods of time. Such lapses could be the result of distractions, absent mindedness, or apathy in general.

In order to keep your game fresh, you, as a peach main, experiment with alternate play-styles in-game. These play-styles aren't necessarily effective at that given moment, but you are certainly drawn to them for some reason at that moment.

Instead of hazardously switching from an appropriate play style to an inappropriate one in-game, you may find it more fulfilling and beneficial to switch to an entirely different character when you are feeling stale. There are some days when I simply can't feel Marth, so I go somewhere else.

Not only will this allow you to "stay fresh," but you'll also learn a more holistic understanding of the game. there are simply certain tactics that get neglected when you "main" a character for an extended period of time.

Play Random for a while. You'll get used to adjusting to weight//play style/ etc on the fly while learning the characters your opponents will be playing first hand.
 

Anther

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don't play random x;. Just pick chars you like and don't torture your opponent with you playing 37 characters you don't know at all. XD.
 

Bead

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don't play random x;. Just pick chars you like and don't torture your opponent with you playing 37 characters you don't know at all. XD.
i have to agree with Anther here.
Pick random, oh look i got yoshi XD
I've kinda been interested in theses few characters, ill give them a try.
 

Dark.Pch

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Naw, even if you're evenly skilled with all of your opponents, char stats play a huge role on your chances of winning or not. In fact, you're flipping a coin with the odds solely based on your character, and maybe heart can influence it a little but, but it's going to be that gimp that changes the game >.>.
I'm glad you place the blame on your playing as opposed to blaming the character, which is the right path,.. and I'm not saying to blame the character, but there's a certain truth to the fact that regardless of the fact that it's your choice to pick the baseball bat in a sword fight. Yes you can beat everybody, but it just isn't as deadly as a sword. Yeah you could've covered every additional weakness you have because you're playing peach vs a supposedly better character, but just having it means you're not going to win as often unless you get vastly better.

You might be losing to people you're mentally better than, but the fact that you have to exhaust so much mental effort just to keep up because of the more concentration you have to spend on the game can play into things. I don't even think peach is that disadvantaged, but I constantly see you and other good peaches like mikey and such lose to random little things in high level matches that just simply wouldn't kill your opponent if they made a mistake on a similar level.

But I say eff it to all that anyway and just play to get better and not worry when things go wrong, it's a game, get better, pay attention to yourself while you're playing, and realize those moments on your own. You know when they're happening and if you aren't making them up as an excuse, then you can realize them in the middle and calm down hopefully. I think that's how the brain works anyway..
I take into account that people player a better character than I do when you see me lose to stupid stuff. They can get away with stuff more than I do. Thats the hard truth. And my character does have weaknesses. Characters that are better than her have a better time abusing them. Even if the match up is in my favor.

I have already work and dealt with all the problems this character has. And can use her as if she did not have any problems. You can ask EC players about this from me. I don't play a high tier characterthat has a better chance at winning tournies. But I come a long way with this character, and due to the fact I don't counterpick characters and refuse too. If I am at a disadvantage in a match up, just shows how mch work I have to put in to win. And I am always ready to do that.

Peach is seriously B tier, that the kind of character I can work with to win and don't feel like I can't do anything or the character stats plays a role.

Ether way, the problem is me, cause I am already set with this character and know too much as it is to do serious damage. There is nothing I am not ready for. So Peach does not even play a role in this matter. But this does:


You might be losing to people you're mentally better than, but the fact that you have to exhaust so much mental effort just to keep up because of the more concentration you have to spend on the game can play into things.
I just wanna deal with this. The only thing holding me back.
 

GunmasterLombardi

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My ego...It's OVER 9000!
I don't blame my character for my loses. I blame myself. it was my choice to main Peach. And I knew all that would come with it. So blaming my character for my loses (in this case, Peach) is stupid. All the matches I have lost I am able to win them with my character. So there is no excuse for that. I'm the blame.
Don't get me wrong, Peach is a good character, but she can only do so much for you w/ her being C tier.

I've been using a lot of characters to explore the metagame. I've used Falco and Yoshi the most. I win w/ these characters all the time but I'm more successful w/ Falco. Not only because I used him just a bit more but he is a much better character. He even suits my playstyle better and can do what Yoshi can but better. There is a limit in which a character can provide for you and once they reach that limit, you won't be able to get much better. At this limit, however, your a VERY good player regardless of who you're using. Anyone who doesn't have the skill you posses is already giving you the advantage, unless they're using MK...

On the other hard, being at the limit may not be enough for a matchup you simply can't win, depending on who you use. As long as the opponent's character is used consistently it will stop you from succeeding the same way High/Top Tiers do. You HAVE to pick a better character who has managable matchups 'cause in the long run you will be @ a higher rank.

Or...pick a high tier secondary to cover your near unwinnable matchups.:cry:
 

Masterchef1123

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Learning how other characters operate helps you be better prepared to fight them.

In my opinion:

Can Peach go alone in tourneys and place decent? Hell yes

Can Peach go alone in large tourneys and place decent? yes

Can Peach go alone in tourneys and win? Theres a chance

Can Peach go alone in large tourneys and win? Hell the **** no.

If you want to go all the way, Peach needs help, whether you use her and master a secondary character thats good(in your case pikachu) and do well. My best advice is pick a character that can combat Peach's bad matchups. But yeah if your looking into pikachu, all I can say is look at Anther.
I'm guessing you aren't as familiar with peach as I am.
I've gotten smacked around.
And I've seen a large tournament and guess what
Peace won
___
Learning a top tier character doesn't matter.
You get a character that you feel the most.
One you can easily use with out getting bad.
My one character is toon link.
I try to master others, but I never make them my main
 

Dark.Pch

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Don't get me wrong, Peach is a good character, but she can only do so much for you w/ her being C tier.

I've been using a lot of characters to explore the metagame. I've used Falco and Yoshi the most. I win w/ these characters all the time but I'm more successful w/ Falco. Not only because I used him just a bit more but he is a much better character. He even suits my playstyle better and can do what Yoshi can but better. There is a limit in which a character can provide for you and once they reach that limit, you won't be able to get much better. At this limit, however, your a VERY good player regardless of who you're using. Anyone who doesn't have the skill you posses is already giving you the advantage, unless they're using MK...

On the other hard, being at the limit may not be enough for a matchup you simply can't win, depending on who you use. As long as the opponent's character is used consistently it will stop you from succeeding the same way High/Top Tiers do. You HAVE to pick a better character who has managable matchups 'cause in the long run you will be @ a higher rank.

Or...pick a high tier secondary to cover your near unwinnable matchups.:cry:
The difference is I don't see any unwinnable match ups with my character.
 

Bead

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
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587
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Now I am Everywhere
Condition ur brain. Push it to the max and work it out. Focus, unfocus, focus, unfocus, things like this. The brain is a MUSCLE work it out. Did you pass me up or something?
 

GunmasterLombardi

Smash Champion
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My ego...It's OVER 9000!
The difference is I don't see any unwinnable match ups with my character.
Try being the best Peach anyone can be. If you still lose matches against a certain character then there ya go.

Yeah, Peach can win any matchup but that only cause people who main characters that have the advantage on her either don't know the matchup or aren't the best w/ the character to prove that they'll never lose a matchup in their 60:40 or higher favor.
 

Dark.Pch

Smash Legend
Joined
May 13, 2006
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Manhattan, New York
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Dark.Pch
3DS FC
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Condition ur brain. Push it to the max and work it out. Focus, unfocus, focus, unfocus, things like this. The brain is a MUSCLE work it out. Did you pass me up or something?
I must have missed your post. I'm sorry.



Try being the best Peach anyone can be. If you still lose matches against a certain character then there ya go.

Yeah, Peach can win any matchup but that only cause people who main characters that have the advantage on her either don't know the matchup or aren't the best w/ the character to prove that they'll never lose a matchup in their 60:40 or higher favor.
Thats an excuse in my eyes. An there is no pefrect Peach for anyone to come out saying things like this as if it is some fact. So people are just assming cause of what they have seen.

All the times I have lost and gotten *****, I have not once felt like I could not win. So others can sit here and belive that and make excuses if Peach was to win these match ups. But I won't
 

Masterchef1123

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 13, 2009
Messages
75
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I ain't tellin' u
No perfect peach.
O.K. one I don't agree with that sentence.
You can't be perfect at everything, but some people are practically amazing with peach.
You're putting yourself down.
You need to work until nothing stays in your way.
 
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