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Yoshi vs. Lucario (35) Export

phi1ny3

Not the Mama
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Apr 15, 2008
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Yoshi



Matchup:

65:35

General info:
yoshi vs lucario.

overall, i say its 65-35 lucario. Yoshi is a formidable opponent if you don't know him well, but after getting used to him, you realize he just doesnt have what it takes to get at lucario. Problems in killing are also a factor here, and lucario can live to 150% without too many problems. however, yoshi's eggs are great nuisances, and his weight makes him live to lucario's percentages.
I think that's about it for Yoshi. Fear the usmash, uair, and Eggs, and he'd be a pain in the *** if he could jump out of shield or shieldgrab us properly.



What to avoid:
Well... I suppose you're right. I find it better to pivot-grab Lucario as he is coming down from the air anyways, though. That way I won't risk any damage, since using his up-smash against Lucario is not really all that reliable.
:069:
omg... please dont finish this without meee!!!!!!

ok fine. just dont finish the yoshi export without meee!!!!!

**** you exams.

edit- hmm looks like i got some time.

yoshi vs lucario.

1. air game. - While both are good in the air, I believe lucario slightly wins in this area. however, you must be aware of how sick yoshi's bair is. it is fast, ranged, can combo into upair, dair, nair, and even has very little landing lag allowing him to string grounded attacks like ftilt or dsmash or do a dragonic reverse to get away or to space.. it is extremely useful against lucario and is something you need to watch out for. Its not completely unpunishable though, Fsmash can easily beat it, and utilt can be used to challenge it as well.

yoshi's nair is fast, and has decent power. it can be strung from dair for a shieldbreaker, or bair as a finisher. it has limited vertical range however, and fair can be used to beat it.

Yoshi's upair is powerful, and this will be the main way of killing lucario. As was said befor, dair cant beat it, and our only hope is to get out of the way. this thing kills lucario at around 110% on battlefield iirc. its a bit obvious though, and it can be predicted well.

Dair, while unsafe doing it on a grounded opponent because of lag, is incredible offstage. it also leads to a footstool, lasts long, and can be used while rising from a double jump to make a wall near the ledge to prevent recovery. try SD'ing diagonal left or diagonal right (downwards of course,) to get out or you'll eat 33%. onstage, its use diminishes, but can be used to crack you shield wide open, but its nothing you have to worry about. simple roll away and punish.

his forward air is a powerful spike, but there should be no way lucario should get hit by it. its completely obvious, slow and punishable.

Lucario can pull of his usual fair strings at yoshi, but dont expect it to last long. his airspeed is even faster than wario's and this will be taken advantage off. against an aerial happy yoshi stage control is important. use AS to keep him grounded and take the middle of the stage to limit his options. his superarmor wears off at higher percentages and lucario's own aura starts to break through at 70%. However, it is difficult to gimp him as an imminent 3 eggs will be chucked your way and then a 2nd jump +airdodge will get him past you easily. it is best to stay a small distance from the ledge and predict where he'll go. Yoshi can also counter aerial spammy lucario's with egglay, and while embarrassing, is nothing too serious unless it happens offstage. in which basically, you mash buttons to break out before it becomes unrecoverable.

2.groundgame - we win here to an extent. Our tilts easily outrange most of yoshi's ground attacks and our fsmash pwns any ground attacks yoshi has. however, it is best to stay an ftilt away as yoshi's attacks are fast. his jab is good, and his dsmash is stronger the closer you are to him. his grabs are slow, but they are ranged, and his pivot grab is just plain incredible. beware of this if you try to approach yoshi with the old fair-nair. he can easily dash away and grab you.

3. Projectiles- yoshi wins here. Eggs are as annoying as annoying can possible be. you cannot fair through them, so it can be used to stop approches, they aid in yoshi's recvery now, so expect 3 eggs being lobbed into the stage . and their versatility means you WILL NEVER win a exchange of projectiles from stage to stage. It is also used for harrassing lucario's recovery if he's too far for yoshi to risk it. AS plows through these eggs like a tractor, but is easily avoided thanks to their airspeed+airdodge, so it is best used for stage control or harrasment.
Also, Yoshi can outcamp us. I'm serious about this. Don't get into a full-out camping war with a Yoshi, or you'll lose every time. Also, don't used spaced Dairs against Yoshi, as his usmash and uair can and will beat it out every time. Yoshi juggles pretty well. Egg toss is lame(in a good way). Egg Lay is pretty good, as it is an air grab. Be EXTREMELY careful if you absolutely must approach Yoshi, as his pivot grab is insane. Dsmash has massive range and is a great gtfo move. Usmash is amazing. Fsmash is... mediocre, but it's okay I guess. his tilts are pretty good for spacing, but I don't believe they beat ours, other than maybe dtilt. They're quick though and still are pretty likely to hit regardless. Yoshi's Dash grab is good as well.
Yoshi's up-smash is actually... pretty ineffective against Lucario, sadly. Lucario has the best move in the game to deal with it: d-air. It will beat it every time. Every time. I've seen f-air beat it out sometimes, too. It's so sad to see one of Yoshi's best move become so useless just because of one other move. :(

Basically, Lucario should only be dying from u-airs (which actually can beat out your d-air, and sometimes we can use our heavy-armor in our double-jump to guarantee it) and Yoshi Bomb. I suppose it's possible to gimp Lucario, but it's not easy. You'd have to be recovering low, because there it's easy to land d-airs. Problem is, Lucario is so floaty that you'd most likely not be recovering low anyways.
How to win:
yoshi vs lucario.

He also has problems killing in the ground, his fsmash wont be hitting you anytime soon if you keep to proper spacing. his upsmash is powerful and his dsmash is quick, but then again you wont be getting hit by these unless a) your straight above him or b) your right next to him. our Fsmash is pretty safe here, and is the best way to kill this heavyweight.

Yoshi's shield stinks. it cant be shieldpoked, but he cant jump from it either. Plus he lags when he removes his shield.his standing grab is also very slow. this makes dairing it safe, and fair-nair crossups even safer.
once he retreats to his shield, you basically have the upper hand. fair nair crossup-FPgrab are on of my favourites to use at it, and he cant get away. his roll is terrible. it can actually be punished with a strutterstep fsmash as the he doesnt go very far and he still needs to remove the shield if he's to get out.

his grounded specials are nothing amazing, as egglay is a little short on effectiveness here, although faster than his grab, and his eggroll is easily outprioritize if you makle sure to kill it before it picks up speed.
his bomb is fast, and can be used as a surprise, although it is much more useful as the bombslide.
I'm sure everyone knows this, but footstooling him out of his second jump offstage = insta-kill.

Overall this should be a somewhat easy match-up. Yoshi's killing game is a little subpar and Lucario has a much better projectile, range, and killing power.
Yoshi's fair is a horrid piece of ****. It's the second weakest spike in the game, and will probably NEVER kill you. They're better off using the horizontal hitbox, which is still weak, but better than the spike. Dair is weird. It's pretty bad for the most part, but they may use it if you're above a platform and vulnerable or something to land massive damage, even if it was nerfed from Melee. Nair is amazing. Fear the boot. You'll never gimp a Yoshi, for the most part unless they screw up majorly, as his ******** second jump combined with his superb airspeed and long airdodge makes him very, very hard to intercept, not to mention the fact that he's heavy as all hell. Yoshi's Bair is the approacher and comboer. It's awesome. Yoshi will probably be killing with uair, usmash, or if you screw up something, he may use Fsmash, Dsmash, or DownB to set up a kill. Grounded DownB(Yoshi Bomb) is powerful as hell, so be careful not to get caught by it, but remember that the aerial version is still crap. Oh, and if the Yoshi is good enough, he may use the super armor of his second jump with his strong Nair to perform a sort of pseudo-counter.

Helpful tips:
Yoshi has some good priority on his USmash and FSmash iirc and I think it beats our FTilt.

Yoshi's safest air attack to horizontally approach with is his BAir. His DAir is not safe because we can just SDI and punish and that has some ending landing lag too. Expect Yoshi users to double jump into their UAir for super armor frames and an extended hitbox while doing it. You might want to just air dodge it then.

I don't know he entirety of the Draconic Reverse, but when you try to DI away from his BAir he can slide and hit you with one of his smashes.

17% Aura Spheres beat his Eggs (58% fresh FCAS thank John12346 for the info). Expect Egg spam if he's at the ledge and you're farther away. Keep in mind that you can force him to approach if you outprioritize his eggs. Speaking of priority be careful with using BAS when he's in the air, he can outprioritize them with most if not all of his air attacks.

Watch out for his pivot grab because that is a really long grab, so don't do anything too silly or laggy up close.

His FAir is slow and obvious, don't do anything laggy yourself to get hit by this. Please for the love of Aura don't do anything too obvious with ES. He could spike or semi-spike you with his FAir or DAir.

If he uses his Egg Roll learn the timing to grab it (although he should be rarely using this if at all during the match anyways).

If you get caught in the first hit of his Down B DI/SDI away ASAP.







Stages:
yoshi vs lucario.

4. stages- i'd say take him to frigate, and other stages where it reduces lucario's chances of getting killed or places which reduce eggs YI brawl is ok, but remember he rocks in this stage as well. for neutrals try FD.
If he can get you on a platform below him you can count on getting UAired. FD is always a nice choice. Japes if it is legal should do alright because his UAir won't be killing anytime soon. Be careful on his own Island and BF.

Probably 60:40 or 65:35 Lucario.

Edit: When Yoshi or Jiggs are ledge camping they can get stage spiked by Lucario's DAir if they aren't careful.

Disclaimer: This thread is made for the sole purpose of keeping matchup discussing clean and organized. If people wish to discuss a past matchup, they may do so in this thread without cluttering the current discussion.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

Red Fox Warrior
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I never really thought it was that bad for Yoshi. Well Lucario being Lucario in this MU I can see why Yoshi's consider us as a really bad MU.
 

iLink

Smash Champion
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I never thought the MU was as bad as 65:35, I can agree with 60:40

Yoshi's camping in general doesn't bother Lucario too much because an AS goes right under it and punishes him. Yoshi has trouble KO'ing Lucario which is obviously good for him if he can survive at higher percents, just watch out for uair because if you try to dair, the armor from Yoshi's DJ can go right through it so just try to avoid it.

Lucario can pretty much deal with everything else if Yoshi tries to approach, so he's going to want to do a lot of pivot grabs.
 

phi1ny3

Not the Mama
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Plus approaching Yoshi's a breeze minus pivot grabs, most of it is reactionary and only if you do a sloppy job of spacing.
 

Aurasmash14

Smash Lord
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Jan 31, 2009
Messages
1,540
actually, AS plowing through eggs doesnt really matter. the eggs don't just come straight at you, they come from all angles and travel faster than AS. he also cant be punished since AS is slower than a turd without a butt to eject it. he'll probably just leap over it or something.

oh and yoshi's super armor in his second jump starts wearing off with damage. and lucario's aura speeds up the process.
 

Rayku

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This matchup is horrendous for Yoshi. Really the ONLY thing he has going for him is the superarmor N-air
 

xxpatgxx

Smash Journeyman
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Mar 4, 2009
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NY
After playing Green Ace in tourney and winning I feel it is best to use fsmash with the analog stick, as opposed to the c stick because good yoshi's like to sidedodge alot, so you need to punish his side dodge and extended air dodge with non c stick fsmash
 
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