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Animation glitches - a reason why.

Kryal

Smash Ace
Joined
May 28, 2009
Messages
560
Since I've been getting this question a lot I will post my findings here concerning character tracking, animations and the problems therein: most importantly animation fall-through and snap-back.

An important thing to keep in mind is that there is a difference between location tracking and model tracking. As an animation is played, the game tracks the TransN node in order to update the character's location. How does the game know which bone/node is TransN? I believe this is stored in the action script somewhere but I'm not entirely sure. Here is an example of the two types of movement:

  1. Ground movement. As ground movement occurs, the game leaves the TopN node in its current location and allows the model to be moved by the animation. At the same time, the game tracks the character location separately using the TransN node. At the end of a ground movement, the TopN node is THEN moved back to the character location so that the animation(s) can continue.
  2. Air movement, which is governed by the physics and is more free-form. The TopN node is moved every frame as animations are played to reflect the character's current location.

The expectation then, of course, is that the character location and model location (TransN) end up in the same place at the end of the animation. If they do not, then you have 'snap-back', which is caused when the model's TransN node isn't tracked properly by the action sequence. The TopN node will then be moved to the character location which doesn't match the real TransN movement, which causes a 'jump' in the model location/animation. Notice how when this happens, the player indicator (Player 1, names, etc) doesn't jump around like the model does. This is because it represents the true character location.

'Fall-though' is when the character model drops through the floor, and usually occurs along with snap-back due to the same reasons.

The cause of these two symptoms? Most likely you're using a character model that was imported (trophies or assists) that doesn't belong to that action script. More specifically, when you import an assist model into the zakogirl set. Although the model and animations will work, the node tracking does not.

Why? Because the action script references bone indexes (possibly node ids?) during an action sequence. If you're using a model where the root nodes are in different indices than the original (TransN, XRotN, YRotN), the action script will track the wrong nodes.

As many of you have found out, a simple fix is to change the animations to reference the wrong nodes. This has NOTHING to do with the animations themselves because they DO move the right nodes. By moving the wrong nodes, what happens is you're tricking the game into tracking the improperly-indexed nodes instead of the real ones.

-Pay attention because this will solve a TON of your animation problems-​

If you experience animation glitches, do the following:

  1. Open the original character model and look at the bones. What you're interested in is the order and index of TransN, XRotN and YRotN.
    Notice how in this example the indices are 3, 4, and 5 respectively.
  2. Open the modified character model and check these bones again.
    In the new model the indices are 2, 3 and 4 respectively.

  3. What we now have to do is make the bones at indices 3, 4 and 5 move just like the original model would. In this case, XRotN has now become our TransN, and YRotN has now become our XRotN. We won't touch any others in this example, but I hope you get the general idea.
  4. Open up the FitMotion and find the animation you want to fix. What we want to do is essentially shift the animations so they move the appropriate bone.
  5. Using the example image, follow from left-to-right renaming the entries:
    • Delete YRotN (because it's unused, you can do this differently if you like)
    • Rename XRotN to YRotN.
    • Rename TransN to XRotN.


What you've just done is tricked the game into tracking properly by animating the bones at the proper INDEX. The animation will play through like it should regardless, because moving any parent node will move the child nodes/geometry.

Because the game thinks the bone at index 3 is TransN, you treat that bone AS IF it were TransN regardless of what it is actually named.

I imagine a person could edit the action script to reflect the proper node indices, but this is a quick fix. Until we can add/remove bones this will have to do.

Happy modding!
 

CT Chia

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Sep 4, 2007
Messages
24,416
Location
Philadelphia
This makes the fix for movement so much easier than manually doing it before, I wish I had thought of this.

Though to be honest the action script change would be the end all fix and I would be thankful if you could find out where it is since then we could also fix footstools and grabs (in the case of Waluigi)
 

DevilKiller

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 13, 2004
Messages
142
BWAHAHA I just figured out why my animations were screwed up, thanks to Kryal's explanation.

People, you can move the HipN bone all you want, but it'll snap back because the TransN/TopN (not quite sure which one) is still in the same place. Don't make the same mistake I did. :)
 

ThatGuyYouMightKnow

Smash Champion
Joined
May 12, 2008
Messages
2,373
Location
Baltimore, MD
Erm..

I tried fixing Isaac's run with this method. What happened was Isaac still teleported, except now a part of him teleported offscreen, and somehow a white yellowish line, possibly a part of his scarf, appeared across the screen and somehow, the heads of each of the little peeps in SmashVille got....

Cut off.

EDIT: Wierd. During the glasses kid's wait1 his head is fine, but when running in place his head dissapears offscreen and a part of it is on the screen, that white yellow line. The other small peeps' heads are stretching in other random directions.


AH! I see what happened. He teleported so far and so fast they had to stretch just to keep their eyes on him. :p

But yes, this still didn't work, unfortunately.
 

Kryal

Smash Ace
Joined
May 28, 2009
Messages
560
You may also need to change the transition animations. For example, a run sequence uses Dash -> Run -> RunBrake and so on. If Dash doesn't work right it won't transition well into Run.
 

Kryal

Smash Ace
Joined
May 28, 2009
Messages
560
The dash is perfectly fine. Everything else that moves him, isn't. ;_;
Keep in mind that the example I gave is very simple. Some swaps may require more attention than others because there is too large of a difference in the number of bones. It's also possible that the game may think HipN is one of the tracked nodes, which holds some movement as well.

Give me an example of what model you're trying to replace and where. Or, you could PM me a file and I'll look at it.
 

leafbarrett

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
1,388
Location
USA
...I'm reading this and it doesn't make a bit of sense...

Do I just delete that bone, or do I rename the bone and delete a different bone, or what? If the bone is deleted, the other bones will all be in the right place, so do I just have to delete the bone?
 

RocketSlug

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 27, 2009
Messages
16
What about the case where you're not swapping models but just replacing an animation and snapback occurs? If I'm understanding this right, the bones will all still be the same so there shouldn't be a problem with tracking the wrong TransN bone index.

For instance normally Pit's Fsmash is stationary, but when I replace it with Fox's or somebody's that moves forward, the player indicator stays stationary while the model moves forward, then snapback occurs. Thoughts?
 

pikazz

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 6, 2009
Messages
1,868
Location
Sweden, Umeå (Currently in Seattle)
NNID
pikamaxi
I need some help

the big problem is the names of the bones. It seems ... RotN is YRot but I dont know I should do it right.
and than I switch TransN, XRot and so on make my wii freezing.
what are I making it wrong?

obs, they are old pics, not that I change
 

Kryal

Smash Ace
Joined
May 28, 2009
Messages
560
What about the case where you're not swapping models but just replacing an animation and snapback occurs? If I'm understanding this right, the bones will all still be the same so there shouldn't be a problem with tracking the wrong TransN bone index.

For instance normally Pit's Fsmash is stationary, but when I replace it with Fox's or somebody's that moves forward, the player indicator stays stationary while the model moves forward, then snapback occurs. Thoughts?
I need some help

the big problem is the names of the bones. It seems ... RotN is YRot but I dont know I should do it right.
and than I switch TransN, XRot and so on make my wii freezing.
what are I making it wrong?

obs, they are old pics, not that I change
You need to reference the original bone index. Ignore the new model. Look at the original model bones and find the indices for TransN and XRotN. Whatever is in that index on the new model is what you want to move. The process will differ depending on what model you're replacing.
 

Kryal

Smash Ace
Joined
May 28, 2009
Messages
560
...I'm reading this and it doesn't make a bit of sense...

Do I just delete that bone, or do I rename the bone and delete a different bone, or what? If the bone is deleted, the other bones will all be in the right place, so do I just have to delete the bone?
Okay, what you want to change is the animation. Don't touch the bones.

Follow the example. Look at TransN, XRotN, YRotN on the original model. They are at index 1,2,3 respectively. So, on the new model you use whatever is at the same index in your animations.

Old -> New
TransN = 1 : 1 = BodyM_dummy_node
XRotN = 2 : 2 = TransN
YRotN = 3 : 3 = RotN

Just rename the animation entries accordingly.
 

cuckoos

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 21, 2009
Messages
380
A Wait1 animation I made for Mario didn't work. He just turns invisible. I did everything right, looks fine in BrawlBox, but while he's doing his Wait1, he disappears until I execute another animation. How come this happened, and how do I fix it?
The link to the wait1.chr0.
 

Eldiran

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Messages
1,707
Location
Pennsylvania
A Wait1 animation I made for Mario didn't work. He just turns invisible. I did everything right, looks fine in BrawlBox, but while he's doing his Wait1, he disappears until I execute another animation. How come this happened, and how do I fix it?
The link to the wait1.chr0.
You should try opening it via the model previewer, and pressing "Clean". That should get rid of the redundant keyframes you got there. Which may or may not help, but it's worth a shot.
 

Kryal

Smash Ace
Joined
May 28, 2009
Messages
560
A Wait1 animation I made for Mario didn't work. He just turns invisible. I did everything right, looks fine in BrawlBox, but while he's doing his Wait1, he disappears until I execute another animation. How come this happened, and how do I fix it?
The link to the wait1.chr0.
Are you using the original model or is it a model swap? If so, what model are you using?
 

Poxag

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 15, 2009
Messages
123
what type of glitches does this fix? does it fix the weird bone distortion that you get when you model swap a character, or when you swap character animations?
 

MasterOfKnees

Space Pirate
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Messages
8,579
Location
Denmark
NNID
KneeMaster
Switch FC
SW-6310-1174-0352
I've got a problem... When i try to delete YRotN it deletes all the other bones below it! (HipN, LLegJ, RLegJ etc)
 

NoOneReallyCares

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 16, 2009
Messages
19
Answer please! A month has passed now :(
I think your supposed to delete the Yrot in the Animations, not the model,
Sorry for bumping this, bu ti have a question of my own.
How exactly do you make the Game reference the wrong node?
DO you change the Node's Name? Like TransN to TopN or something?
 

Thany

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 19, 2010
Messages
240
Location
Off to a distant place
Having some animation troubles...

I read what was on the first page, but that seems to apply more to editing a character's bones, instead of editing their Fitmotion file, so...

Well, I'm attempting to make a better version of Roy's Melee taunt, and it looks pretty much fine in Brawl Box




But when I try in-game, I end up with this happening...



Different angle...




I was turning his Top N and I believe either his Hip N, or his XRot N to make him bend like that.

Anyone know what's wrong? Or if this is the wrong place to post, then the location I should post it?

And is there anyway to shorten the blue line that goes from his Top N to the rest of his model? I'd like to be able to
pull him closer to the ground in some animations, but the X and YRot Ns, Hip N, and Top N all appear to give me the same problem in-game as stated above.
 

Snoopy

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 3, 2010
Messages
367
no animations are applied to the first bone of the structure (usually the TopN, but no matter the name, it's part of Brawl's hard coding), so that's most likely the problem. as MonkUnit said, just use the XRotN and YRotN bones, but also the HipN works just as well too, if you need a third bone to rotate.
 

Thany

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 19, 2010
Messages
240
Location
Off to a distant place
I...Kinda can't really make him move very well with the X or Y Rotation Bones though.

For one thing, when I mess with those to pull him closer to the ground, he seems to end up only getting higher and not lower... ._.'

Plus in the midst of animation(In BrawlBox) sometimes I saw him move away from the middle of the floor...For an animation that requires him not too be moving. It's kinda difficult to explain.

Like...If frame one has him with his feet flat on the ground, and for frame 10 I've been meddling with XRotN and YRotN to make him go lower, then I play the preview, he...Slowly rotates and is moved in a manner like someone is moving him via Telekinesis...

It's hard to explain that last one. Ran into issues with that way back, and hence I've been trying to do all my animations by TopN editing...Which...Yeah ._.' *goes to fiddle with X and YRotNs*
 

JediKnightTemplar

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 15, 2009
Messages
1,092
Location
Midland, Michigan
I...Kinda can't really make him move very well with the X or Y Rotation Bones though.

For one thing, when I mess with those to pull him closer to the ground, he seems to end up only getting higher and not lower... ._.'

Plus in the midst of animation(In BrawlBox) sometimes I saw him move away from the middle of the floor...For an animation that requires him not too be moving. It's kinda difficult to explain.

Like...If frame one has him with his feet flat on the ground, and for frame 10 I've been meddling with XRotN and YRotN to make him go lower, then I play the preview, he...Slowly rotates and is moved in a manner like someone is moving him via Telekinesis...

It's hard to explain that last one. Ran into issues with that way back, and hence I've been trying to do all my animations by TopN editing...Which...Yeah ._.' *goes to fiddle with X and YRotNs*
Use the HipN bone and edit the Translation Y value- lower the value to lower the character, raise the value to raise the character. If you have issues getting the feet to line up, simply do the same for all bones on the leg you think needs to be edited by small increments- if you do it correctly it shouldn't be very noticeable and the charcter shouldn't float or sink in game much (even the vBrawl animations are a bit above the stage if you look close enough). And I actually know exactly what you mean for your problem- the animation is happening while the character is rotated in a manner you don't wish it to. Don't use the rotation bones to adjust character position. You'll only end up screwing up the animation as I don't believe BrawlBox has an undo feature for animations besides constantly saving. If you have any issues doing that PM me and I can go more in depth than I care to right now and failing that just give me a link to the files. I might be able to do something with them, no promises.
 
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