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Ness vs. Squirtle

Uffe

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I'd rather fight Pikachu than Squirtle. Squirtle is a tricky opponent to face and his only major attack I have an issue with is his fair and bair. I'm not sure if Ness' and his trade hits because his comes out so darn quick, but overall I just hate fighting this Pokemon because of his size and agility. He's like a quicker version of Mario and real annoying at that. What's there to really say about him? For starters, recovering against this Pokemon is annoying. Because he's smaller, his Water Gun can do a little better than what Mario can.

I'll try to see if I can come up with something else about him. I've fought a few Pokemon Trainers recently and this is the only one from his group that gives me a tough time.
 

xoxokev

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watch out for the quick jab. comes out in one frame, i believe. i'm pretty sure ness' fair beats all of squirtle's aerials as long as you space it correctly. squirtle also has a throw kill move, so don't get grabbed at high %
 

Earthbound360

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Squirtle wil be doing about 10% or so with his grab release if he decides to use it, and if the Ness super grab breaks. Hes better off throwing.
 

Earthbound360

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Yes Squirtle can get about 1 pummel in each time. Unless you get chained from 1 end of FD to the other ur most likely gonna take around 10ish if ur good at breaking by the time you reach the end of the level.
 

Chuee

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Squirtle gets about 1 pummel in if Ness is at like really low %. Once he gets higher the pummels increase.
Reflex needs to get here.
 

Moozle

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You should also know that it's pretty darn easy to get a grab if you hydrograb, which also leads to grab releasing off the edge a lot of the time. Fair and Bair are your biggest problems, but also watch out for Ftilt because it is a good move that will be used a lot(followed by jab). Squirtle is my worst of the three pokemon, but I still start with him because it's such a good matchup :dizzy:
 

Uffe

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^^^ I agree. I'm not sure what this Hydro Grab is, but if it is what I think it is, then I wouldn't say it's too much of a problem. I'm assuming it's Water Gun followed by a grab. I'm probably wrong, though. I'm not too worried about grab releases, though.
 

1337-Zero

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^Hydro grab is using Squirtle's physics when turning around during a dash to slide extremely far while doing a command (In this case, a grab).

Although it's really unlikely, Footstooling a Squirtle during his Forward B is always satisfiying.

Since Squirtle receives less knockback during PKF than any other pokemon, I'd assume it would be helpful for racking up damage.

I never fight any1 other than Tink, Pit, or Lucario, but I'll add as much as I can when I think of it.
 

Uffe

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I know what you're talking about. Yeah, this Buuda guy did that to me.
 

Steeler

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alls i know is that i'm pretty sure reflex thinks this is the easiest matchup for any of the three pokemon... :x

i don't think it's quite as one sided but it's not good for ness.
 

Zigsta

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Squirtle ***** ***** ***** Ness with grab release. A lot of Ness players fear Charizard the most of the three Pokemon, but Squirtle's really the one to watch out for. Just don't get grabbed and you'll do fine, which is easier said than done. If you do, it's essentially a stock.
 

Earthbound360

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>_>
I lik how people assume a grab is a stock. It's the quick aerial nuisance thats the biggest problem here. The grab is a very minor issue.
 

Uffe

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Yeah, a grab release doesn't mean one stock is going to be gone real quick. A lot of characters have grab releases on Ness, but that doesn't mean he doesn't ever get far. A couple of Ness mains can reach top 8 at tournaments, so a single character isn't exactly a loss for Ness. I deal with grab releases a lot, but that doesn't mean I lose all the time. It just tells me that I've got to play it safe because I know what you want. Squirtle isn't exactly an Ice Climber here and Charizard isn't scary.
 

Toby.

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Actually Uffe was right about hydrograbbing. It's where squirtle uses watergun and exploits the lag on the opponent (same as Fludd induced hitlag) to grab them.

Hydroplaning is when squirtle uses watergun and then slides forward on the wet floor.

There is a lot of confusion about those terms. A lot of people never bothered learning the correct term for each of squirtle's pivot AT's and since there are a lot of them that look similar, people often get things mixed up.

The one where squirtle does a sliding grab is called hydro hugging.
Squirtle does pretty well in this matchup.
 

Magik0722

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Yes Squirtle can get about 1 pummel in each time. Unless you get chained from 1 end of FD to the other ur most likely gonna take around 10ish if ur good at breaking by the time you reach the end of the level.
I dont think you realize how small this smallstep chaingrab is, squirtle practically doesnt even move
 

1337-Zero

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Actually Uffe was right about hydrograbbing. It's where squirtle uses watergun and exploits the lag on the opponent (same as Fludd induced hitlag) to grab them.

Hydroplaning is when squirtle uses watergun and then slides forward on the wet floor.

There is a lot of confusion about those terms. A lot of people never bothered learning the correct term for each of squirtle's pivot AT's and since there are a lot of them that look similar, people often get things mixed up.

The one where squirtle does a sliding grab is called hydro hugging.
Whoops, I guess you learn something new everyday. Sorry Uffe :embarrass

@Bold: I thought that was the sliding U-smash move. Did they change what all the terms mean without telling me?!?!? Come to think of it, I didn't even know Squirtle could slide on the wet floor...
 

Uffe

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It's all good, 1337-Zero! And I missed Steeler's, post way up above. I also believe that this is the easiest match-up out of the three Pokemon. I personally don't think Squirtle needs to grab release Ness since he already gives Ness a major problem without it.
 

*Tyson*

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All i know is i played Reflex at Genesis with Lucas and he CG'ed me on Smashville from one end to the other 0- to about 130ish% to down throw i believe which was my stock. Then proceeded to do it again when he got the grab.

Maybe it is different with Ness but i would not think so at first glance

Magik is right, the step forward is VERY small so you take a lot of damage
 

xoxokev

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All i know is i played Reflex at Genesis with Lucas and he CG'ed me on Smashville from one end to the other 0- to about 130ish% to down throw i believe which was my stock. Then proceeded to do it again when he got the grab.

Maybe it is different with Ness but i would not think so at first glance

Magik is right, the step forward is VERY small so you take a lot of damage
this sounds about right... as long as the PT knows the match up. DON'T GET GRABBED.
 
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