Clai
Smash Lord
This guide is written to list all the options that Ganondorf has when he's on the ledge. Ganondorf is actually a decent off-stage fighter, but people typically dismiss it because of his poor and seemingly limited options once he's hanging on the ledge. The fact that Ganondorf can't ledgedrop and double jump onto the stage without some type of input further solidifies this belief. This shortcoming, however, doesn't stop the fact that Ganondorf has plenty of options at his disposal. Here's the list of ledge options:
*NOTE: Ganondorf has 8 frames of RCO lag when he recovers with Flame Choke and 16 frames of RCO lag when he recovers with Dark Dive. Keep this in mind when you're returning to the stage*
**SECOND NOTE: Using Flame Choke to grab the ledge will replace the RCO lag from recovering with Dark Dive to the RCO lag from recovering with Flame Choke, even if Ganondorf uses Dark Dive to grab the ledge afterwards (Thanks to PK-ow! for this information)**
On Z1gma's request, I am considering writing some things about offensive Ganon near to or on the ledge, perhaps some things that about edgeguarding from the ledge. However, since I'm not particularly knowledgeable about edgeguarding, I would need your input on the matter.
This concludes the guide on Ganondorf on the ledge. Special thanks to Z1gma, DAD, Big O and Bahamut for their contributions to the thread. If there are any options that I left out, please tell me so I can add the information in the thread.
*NOTE: Ganondorf has 8 frames of RCO lag when he recovers with Flame Choke and 16 frames of RCO lag when he recovers with Dark Dive. Keep this in mind when you're returning to the stage*
**SECOND NOTE: Using Flame Choke to grab the ledge will replace the RCO lag from recovering with Dark Dive to the RCO lag from recovering with Flame Choke, even if Ganondorf uses Dark Dive to grab the ledge afterwards (Thanks to PK-ow! for this information)**
- Ledgedrop onto stage [Airdodge]
There are two ways to airdodge onto the stage; which method to use is up to you.
- Tap and hold the control stick down and toward the stage. Immediately after tapping the control stick, press the jump button, followed by the shield button. The result will be Ganondorf airdodging onto the stage.
-Slightly press the control stick downward and then move the control stick up and toward the stage. Immediately after tapping the control stick, press the jump button. At the peak of the mid-air jump, press the shield button. The resulting motion will look as close to Ganondorf jumping from the ledge to the stage as you can get.
- Ledgedrop onto stage [Flipman] (All credit goes to Z1gma for the original discovery)
This is, by far, the most useful aerial to return to the stage with. Getting this consistantly, however, is very difficult. There are two ways to perform this method, the first method demonstrated by Z1gma, the second method is my personal method. Both methods are viable, but I'd trust Z1gma's method if you're trying this out for the first time:
- Slightly press the control stick downward and immediately move the control stick up and toward the stage. Immediately after pressing the control stick, press the jump button, followed by the attack button.
-Tap the control stick away from the stage, and then quickly rotate it counter-clockwise toward the stage. Immediately after you tap the control stick, press the jump button. When the control stick is directed upward (which should be very close to when you tap it away from the stage), press the attack button.
- Ledgedrop onto stage [Nair]
This is, in my opinion, the hardest aerial to return to the stage with, but its multi-hit and lingering aspects makes it a very good move to use.
- Slightly press the control stick downward. Immediately afterwards, press the jump button while bringing the control stick back to the neutral position. At this point, press the attack button while pressing the control stick up and toward the stage.
- Ledgedrop onto stage [Fair]
Ganondorf's Fair has very good knockback, making it a natural candidate to return to the stage with. As a note, you can hit an opponent on a platform in Battlefield with this move, but the opponent has to be teetering over the edge. This is just a testament to the range of this move.
-Slightly press the control stick downward and then quickly rotate it toward the stage. Immediately press the jump button and then press the attack button after the control stick is toward the stage. This all has to be done in quick succession or else the hitbox won't come out while you're stuck with all the lag...
- Ledgedrop onto stage [Bair]
This aerial can also land Ganon on the stage laglessly. However, I do not know how to pull that off (laglessly, that is).
- Slightly press the control stick down and toward the stage. Immediately press the jump button and tap the C-stick away from the stage while moving the control stick upward.
- Ledgedrop onto stage [Dair]
This is, in my opinion, the easiest aerial to return to the stage with, but also the least useful. If you do hit with this aerial, though, it will hit with the sourspot hitbox and do 17% of damage.
- Tap and hold the control stick down and toward the stage. Immediately after tapping the control stick, press the jump button, followed by the attack button.
- Ledgedrop onto stage [Aerial Flame Choke]
This is a relatively new discovery, so the instructions might not be ideal. Once this technique is perfected, though, the exact timing will be determined.
- Slightly press the control stick downward and immediately press the jump button (Do not DI toward the stage). At the peak of your mid-air jump, Flame Choke toward the stage. If done correctly, Ganondorf will Aerudo onto the stage with the soft landing lag associated with the move. It is imperative that you do not DI toward the stage because if you do so on some stages, you will kill yourself. Details of these stages will be listed later.
- Side-B Stalling and Finicky Stages
Since there are 8 frames less RCO lag if you recover with Side-B than if you use up-B, it's recommended that you ledgedrop and press side-B to recover to the stage. Since the opponent can end up getting Ganoncided if he tries to hit you, this can end up being a nice surprise. If you do try to do this, though, do it as fast as you possibly can or else the opponent can simply edgehog you and you will fall to your death.
There is another method that involves using Ganon's Flame Choke. Ganondorf's Side-B has a snapping feature that reduces the amount of time that Ganondorf is vulnerable offstage. The "snap-box" of this move is actually a little bit below where Ganondorf's arms are while he performs a Flame Choke, so it's recommended that you wait a little bit after tapping the control stick before you jump.
There are several stages where you cannot DI toward or away from the stage and return using side-B. If you do, Ganondorf will Flame Choke under the ledge and kill himself.
However, the second method of side-B stalling is still entirely valid since Ganon is only moving vertically and not horizontally in that method. The stages are:
-Final Destination
-Delfino Plaza (moving stage)
-Halberd (moving stage)
-Lylat Cruise
-Pokemon Stadium 1
-Brinstar
-Norfair
- Reverse Side-B Stalling
On certain stages, Ganondorf can ledgedrop, DI toward the stage, and then use a reverse side-B to snap the ledge. The stages where Ganondorf can do this are:
-Battlefield
-Smashville
-Delfino Plaza (moving stage)
-Halberd (moving stage)
-Lylat Cruise
-Pokemon Stadium 1
-Brinstar
-Norfair
- Ledge Planking
Ganondorf can ledgedrop, attack with either uair or bair, and then snap onto the ledge using Side-B's snapping mechanics. This has the effect of repelling opponents onto the stage while leaving Ganon with as little vulnerability as possible.
-With Uair, it's recommended that you tap the control stick away from the stage, then press the jump button while quickly rotating the control stick counter-clockwise toward the stage. When the control stick is facing upwards (which should be soon after Ganondorf drops from the ledge), press the attack button to perform the uair. Once the uair is finished, press side-B to snap onto the ledge (Ganon will not grab the ledge unless you snap it with side-B). This process has to be done quickly or else Ganondorf will not grab the ledge.
- With Bair, tap the control stick away from the stage, then immediately jump and press the C-stick away from the stage. While you're pressing the C-stick, press the control stick toward the stage. Once Ganon's bair finishes, press side-B to snap onto the ledge.
- Ledge Planking with Reverse Side-B Snapping
On some stages, Ganondorf can combine his Ledge Planking with reverse side-B stalling to effectively increase the range where he can hit his opponents on the stage. Those stages are:
-Battlefield
-Smashville
-Delfino Plaza (moving stage)
-Halberd (moving stage)
-Brinstar
-Norfair
- Ledgehop into instant double-jump (All credit goes to DAD for his efforts)
All characters can instantly double-jump out of a ledgehop to cancel out the ledgehop's momentum. Since Ganondorf has the shortest double-jump in the game, though, this ability has greater implications on Ganon's ledge game than the other characters. This method is performed by jumping when you see Ganondorf's shins pass the ledge. If done correctly, Ganondorf will double-jump and then grab the ledge if no directional input was given. Other options can be done from a ledgehop with the same timing. These include:
- Attacking (Uair or Nair are recommended since they come out the quickest)
- Aerial Flame Choke (if done correctly, Ganon's Flame Choke will have a soft landing, which has significantly less lag than a hard landing.
- Ledge Frame Data (All credit goes to Big O for the Data)
Frame Data for Ledge Attacks [Attacking Frames/Completion Frames]:
Ledge Attack Under 100 ...24-28/54...(Invincible on frames 1-21)
Ledge Attack At 100+ ...37-40/68...(Invincible on frames 1-40)
Frame Data for Ledge Rolls [Invincibility Frames/Completion Frames]:
Ledge Climb Under 100% ...1-22/33
Ledge Jump Under 100% ...1-11/11
Ledge Roll Under 100% ...1-25/48
Ledge Climb At 100+ ...1-49/58
Ledge Jump At 100+ ...1-19/19
Ledge Roll At 100+ ...1-60/78
- How well can Ganondorf really plank? (All credit goes to DMG's planking thread for the frame data)
With physical data about characters on the ledge known, it can be determined how well, on a technical standpoint, Ganondorf can plank. This is the data for characters on the ledge, provided by DMG's planking thread:
So when Ganondorf drops from the ledge, he has 21 frames that he can perform an action while being invincible. What does this translate to with options?
-Ganondorf can DJ and perform any aerial while being invincible. The entire hitbox for every aerial except for the last frame of Dair are invincible. In addition, if Ganondorf performs every action perfectly, Ganon can perform the second hit of Nair on the last frame that he is invincible.
-For edgeguarding purposes, Ganondorf can perform a Tipman (weak hit of Uair) while being invincible, meaning he can gimp other characters approaching the edge without worrying about being hit himself.
-The first two frames of Aerial Side-B's hitbox are invincible, which means if you time it perfectly, you can grab an opposing character with Side-B while being invincible. Considering how close to the ledge you have to be to do this, though, performing this is highly unfeasible.
- Ledge Attack Hitboxes (All credit goes to Bahamut for the hitboxes)
Edge Attack <100%
Edge Attack >100%
On Z1gma's request, I am considering writing some things about offensive Ganon near to or on the ledge, perhaps some things that about edgeguarding from the ledge. However, since I'm not particularly knowledgeable about edgeguarding, I would need your input on the matter.
This concludes the guide on Ganondorf on the ledge. Special thanks to Z1gma, DAD, Big O and Bahamut for their contributions to the thread. If there are any options that I left out, please tell me so I can add the information in the thread.
