Shffling the numbers: sakurai angle update 3/13

goodoldganon said:

Veril has never been wrong on his math. Trust the man.

Click to expand...

UPDATE: Blinds is adorable and brilliant. Check individual characters for a list of moves with the Sakurai angle, not all are done yet. Be patient plz.

SHFFling is extremely important for getting the best advantage window both on block and on hit. Knowing how to SHFF optimally will allow you to minimize the risk of punishment, let you **** shield-camping b****es, and provide the best setups for starting or continuing a combo/string.


This thread encompasses quite a bit. I update fairly often.



The earliest frame for input of the FF counts frame 0 as the jump input frame and is the earliest possible frame to FF on. Each frame later that the FF is input results in an additional frame of airtime generally.

Bowser:

All aerials are SHFFl able but the timing is pretty tight, especially for up-air. I'll get the ISJR data again soon...

jump startup: 7 ••• SH(FF): 27 (18) ••• FH(FF): 53 ••• earliest SHFF input frame: 20 ••• frames of airtime prior to start of FF: 13

nair: hits earliest: 6 ••• Landing Lag: 12 ••• Aerial IASA: 45
fair: hits earliest: 9 ••• Landing Lag: 12 ••• Aerial IASA: 42
bair: hits earliest: 9 ••• Landing Lag: 18 ••• Aerial IASA: 50
uair: hits earliest: 16 ••• Landing Lag: 14
dair: hits earliest: 14 ••• Landing Lag: 20

standing grab: 9 ••• dash grab: 10 ••• pivot grab: 9

Moves with the Sakurai angle: Ftilt, Fsmash - Strong hit, Fair, Bair - Weak hit


Captain Falcon:

This is absolutely essential tech skill for Falcon players. SHFFl knee ftw

jump startup: 4 ••• SH(FF): 31 (21) ••• FH(FF): 52 ••• earliest SHFF input frame: 19 ••• frames of airtime prior to start of FF: 15

nair: landing lag: 7 ••• aerial iasa: 43
fair: hits earliest: 14 ••• Landing Lag: 9
bair: landing lag: 7 ••• aerial iasa: 28 ••• autocancel: NA
uair: landing lag: 7
dair: landing lag: 9

standing grab: 7 ••• dash grab: 11 ••• pivot grab: 11

Moves with the Sakurai angle: Ftilt, Utilt, Dsmash, Bair, FALCON PUNCH, REVERSE FALCON PUNCH, UpB


Charizard:

jump startup: 5 ••• SH(FF): 36 (25) ••• FH: 55 ••• earliest SHFF input: 23 ••• airtime prior to FF: 18

nair: Landing Lag: 11
fair: Landing Lag: 16
bair: Landing Lag: 11
uair: Landing Lag: 11
dair: Landing Lag: 18

standing grab: ? ••• dash grab: ? ••• pivot grab: ?

Moves with the Sakurai angle: ??


DDD:

jump startup: 5 ••• SH(FF): 40 (27) ••• FH: 59 ••• earliest FF frame:25 ••• airtime prior to FF: 20

nair: Landing Lag: 8
fair: Landing Lag: 15
bair: Landing Lag: 11 ••• Aerial FAF: 36 **hitbox size adjusted to match animation
uair: Landing Lag: 11
dair: Landing Lag: 25

standing grab: ? ••• dash grab: ? ••• pivot grab: ?

Moves with the Sakurai angle: ??


Diddy Kong:

jump startup: 4 ••• SH(FF): 38 (27) ••• FH: 63 ••• earliest SHFF input: 23 ••• airtime prior to FF: 19

nair: Landing Lag: 7
fair: Landing Lag: 13
bair: Landing Lag: 7
uair: Landing Lag: 7
dair: Landing Lag: 11

standing grab: ? ••• dash grab: ? ••• pivot grab: ?

Moves with the Sakurai angle: Ftilt, Dsmash, Fair, Bair.


Donkey Kong:

jump startup: 5 ••• SH(FF): 36 (23) ••• FH: 63 ••• earliest SHFF input: 22 ••• airtime prior to FF: 17

nair: Landing Lag: 8
fair: Landing Lag: 15
bair: Landing Lag: 8
uair: Landing Lag: 11
dair: Landing Lag: 16

standing grab: 8 ••• dash grab: 10 ••• pivot grab: 10

Moves with the Sakurai angle: Ftilt, Fsmash, Bair, Donkey Punch


Falco:

jump startup: 5 ••• SH(FF): 33 (18) ••• FH: 58 ••• optimal FF frame: 18 ••• airtime prior to FF: 13

nair: Landing Lag: 7
fair: Landing Lag: 17
bair: Landing Lag: 8
uair: Landing Lag: 8
dair: Landing Lag: 10

standing grab: 6 ••• dash grab: 11 ••• pivot grab: 9

Moves with the Sakurai angle: Ftilt, Fsmash, Usmash - Weak hit, Bair, Bthrow, Nair - Final hit, UpB


Fox:

jump startup: 4 ••• SH(FF): 23 (16) ••• FH: 41 ••• optimal FF frame: 15 ••• airtime prior to FF: 11

nair: Landing Lag: 8
fair: Landing Lag: 10
bair: Landing Lag: 10
uair: Landing Lag: 11
dair: Landing Lag: 8

standing grab: 6 ••• dash grab: 11 ••• pivot grab: 9

Moves with the Sakurai angle: Ftilt, Fsmash, Usmash - Weak hit, Dsmash - weak hits, Nair, Bair - Weak hit.


GW:

jump startup: 4 ••• SH(FF): 38 (27) ••• FH: 58 ••• optimal SHFF input: 23 ••• airtime prior to FF: 19

nair: Landing Lag: 7
fair: Landing Lag: 11
bair: Landing Lag: 7
uair: Landing Lag: 7
dair: Landing Lag: 15

standing grab: 6 ••• dash grab: 10 ••• pivot grab: 10

Moves with the Sakurai angle: Dtilt, Fsmash - Weak hit, Fair, Judgement 9, UpB - Final hit, Bucket


Ganon:

jump startup: 6 ••• SH(FF): 31 (21) ••• FH: 49 ••• optimal FF frame: 21 ••• airtime prior to FF: 15

nair: Landing Lag: 11
fair: hits on: 15? ••• Landing Lag: 15 ••• autocancel: 35?
bair: Landing Lag: 11 ••• aerial IASA: 29
uair: Landing Lag: 11 ••• aerial iasa: 28
dair: Landing Lag: 18 ••• autocancels on 31

standing grab: 7 ••• dash grab: 11 ••• pivot grab: 10

f-throw [13 (8)]... weight dependent: no ••• release frame: 14 ••• First Actionable Frame: 42 ••• initiates tech chase at low% w/o DI onstage; sets up for edgeguards offstage; if the opponent DI's up to avoid a tech chase (or cause they f***ed up) this move has some combo potential, but not enough to warrant my spending the time dissecting it... for now lol

b-throw [10 (5)]... weight dependent: no ••• release frame: 18 ••• First Actionable Frame: 46 ••• Escape frame@0: 55 ••• can KO at high %

u-throw [6 (5)]... weight dependent: no ••• release frame: 18 ••• First Actionable Frame: 41 ••• Escape frame@0: 55 ••• combos across a respectable % range, the most reliable combo being up-throw to up-air.

d-throw [6 (6)]... weight dependent: yes ••• release frame: 23 ••• First Actionable Frame: 40 ••• tech occurs the frame after release ••• a tech (not a tech roll) will yield a 10 frame advantage for Ganon, though the opponent will be invincible for a portion of this time. NO JOHNS! This throw is really good.

side-b: what a strange move from a mechanics standpoint. first grabs: 16 ••• releases: 27 ••• first techable frame: 34-38 depending on size/weight (lighter/smaller characters tech later) ••• first actionable frame: 39 (static).

*I'm probably going to merge this thread with an updated version of my shameless geekery thread so I don't have to explain how to read throw frame data again ;p

Moves with the Sakurai angle: Utilt - Strong Hit, Fair, Bair, Uair - first hit, WARLOCK PUNCH (seriously I loled), UpB - Throw


Ice Climbers:

jump startup: 4 ••• SH(FF): 34 (23) ••• FH: 70 ••• optimal SHFF input: 21 ••• airtime prior to FF: 17

nair: Landing Lag: 8
fair: Landing Lag: 10
bair: Landing Lag: 8
uair: Landing Lag: 15
dair: Landing Lag: 21

standing grab: ? ••• dash grab: ? ••• pivot grab: ?

Moves with the Sakurai angle: ??


Ike:

jump startup: 5 ••• SH(FF): 36 (25) ••• FH: 56 ••• optimal SHFF input: 23 ••• airtime prior to FF: 18

jab: hits earliest frame 3

nair: Landing Lag: 11
fair: Landing Lag: 15
bair: Landing Lag: 11
uair: Landing Lag: 9
dair: Landing Lag: 14

fully charged side-b: Shield-hitlag: 6 ••• SHLD: 0 ••• Shieldstun: 13 ••• Powershieldstun: 5? ••• ending lag: 28
••• adv on shield-drop/normal block/power-shield: -8/-15/-23 ••• significant shieldpushback makes punishing this on normal block fairly difficult (but not necessarily impossible) for a number of characters on block, but very possible if power-shielded.

standing grab: 7 ••• dash grab: 12 ••• pivot grab: 9

Ike:Moves with the Sakurai angle: Dash Attack, Ftilt - Angled up and down, Dtilt - Non spiking hitboxes, Fsmash, Fair, Bair


Ivysaur:

jump startup: 4 ••• SH(FF): 41 (28) ••• FH: 60 ••• optimal SHFF input: 24 ••• airtime prior to FF: 20

nair: Landing Lag: 7
fair: Landing Lag: 14
bair: Landing Lag: 7
uair: Landing Lag: 11
dair: Landing Lag: 14

Moves with the Sakurai angle: ??


Jigglypuff:

jump startup: 5 ••• SH(FF): 42 (28) ••• FH: 58 ••• optimal SHFF input: 26 ••• airtime prior to FF: 21

nair: Landing Lag: 8
fair: Landing Lag: 8
bair: Landing Lag: 8
uair: Landing Lag: 8
dair: Landing Lag: 15

standing grab: 6 ••• dash grab: 10 ••• pivot grab: 10

Moves with the Sakurai angle: fair, ??


kirby:

jump startup: 4 ••• SH(FF): 41 (27) ••• FH: 60 ••• optimal FF frame: 24 ••• airtime prior to FF: 20

nair: Landing Lag: 7
fair: Landing Lag: 8
bair: Landing Lag: 7
uair: Landing Lag: 7
dair: Landing Lag: 8

standing grab: 6 ••• dash grab: 10 ••• pivot grab: 10

Moves with the Sakurai angle: Ftilt, Nair, Bair


Link

jump startup: 6 ••• SH(FF): 33 (22) ••• FH: 51 ••• optimal SHFF input: 22 ••• airtime prior to FF: 16

nair: Landing Lag: 7
fair: Landing Lag: 7
bair: Landing Lag: 7
uair: Landing Lag: 10
dair: Landing Lag: 25

standing grab: 12 ••• dash grab: 14 ••• pivot grab: 15

Moves with the Sakurai angle: Ftilt, Fsmash - 2nd Hit, Fair, Grounded UpB


Lucario

jump startup: 4 ••• SH(FF): 43 (30) ••• FH: 68 ••• optimal SHFF input: 25 ••• airtime prior to FF: 21

nair: Landing Lag: 7
fair: Landing Lag: 9
bair: Landing Lag: 8
uair: Landing Lag: 11
dair: Landing Lag: 7

standing grab: 6 ••• dash grab: 8 ••• pivot grab: 9

Moves with the Sakurai angle: Ftilt - Strong hit, Fsmash, Dsmash, Nair, Bair, Dair - 2nd hit, Fthrow - Both Hitboxes, SideB


Lucas:

jump startup: 4 ••• SH(FF): 32 (22) ••• FH: 54 ••• optimal FF frame: 20 ••• airtime prior to FF: 16

nair: Landing Lag: 8
fair: Landing Lag: 7
bair: Landing Lag: 7
uair: Landing Lag: 7
dair: Landing Lag: 12

standing grab: 13 ••• dash grab: 16 ••• pivot grab: 15

Moves with the Sakurai angle: Ftilt, Fsmash, Dsmash, Nair, Fair, Bair - Non spiking hitboxes


Luigi:

jump startup: 4 ••• SH(FF): 48 (34) ••• FH: 79 ••• optimal FF frame: 28 ••• airtime prior to FF: 24

nair: Landing Lag: 7
fair: Landing Lag: 11
bair: Landing Lag: 7
uair: Landing Lag: 7
dair: Landing Lag: 10

standing grab: ? ••• dash grab: ? ••• pivot grab: ?

Moves with the Sakurai angle: Ftilt, Fair, Bair, SideB


Mario:

jump startup: 5 ••• SH(FF): 34 (23) ••• FH: 57 ••• optimal FF frame: 22 ••• airtime prior to FF: 17

nair: Landing Lag: 7
fair: Landing Lag: 13
bair: Landing Lag: 7
uair: Landing Lag: 7
dair: Landing Lag: 10

standing grab: ? ••• dash grab: ? ••• pivot grab: ?

Moves with the Sakurai angle: Ftilt, Dsmash, Fair - Final hit


Martha:

jump startup: 4 ••• SH(FF): 40 (27) ••• FH: 58 ••• optimal FF frame: 24 ••• airtime prior to FF: 20

nair: Landing Lag: 7
fair: Landing Lag: 7
bair: Landing Lag: 11
uair: Landing Lag: 7
dair: Landing Lag: 16

standing grab: 6 ••• dash grab: ? ••• pivot grab: ?

Moves with the Sakurai angle: Ftilt, Fsmash, Dsmash - only some hits, Nair - second hit, Shield Breaker, Dancing Blade Side 4, Dolphin Slash - one hit, Counter


Meta Knight:

jump startup: 4 ••• SH(FF): 33 (22) ••• FH: 55 ••• optimal FF frame: 20 ••• airtime prior to FF: 16

nair: Landing Lag: 8
fair: Landing Lag: 8
bair: Landing Lag: 7
uair: Landing Lag: 7
dair: Landing Lag: 8

standing grab: 6 ••• dash grab: 8 ••• pivot grab: 8

Moves with the Sakurai angle: ??


Ness

jump startup: 4 ••• SH(FF): 39 (26) ••• FH: 62 ••• optimal SHFF input: 23 ••• airtime prior to FF: 19

nair: Landing Lag: 9
fair: Landing Lag: 7
bair: Landing Lag: 7
uair: Landing Lag: 7
dair: Landing Lag: 14

standing grab: 6 ••• dash grab: 8 ••• pivot grab: 8

Moves with the Sakurai angle: ??


Olimar

jump startup: 4 ••• SH(FF): 47 (??) ••• FH: 71 ••• optimal SHFF input: ?? ••• airtime prior to FF: ??

nair: Landing Lag: 8
fair: Landing Lag: 8
bair: Landing Lag: 8
uair: Landing Lag: 15
dair: Landing Lag: 15

Moves with the Sakurai angle: ??


Peach

jump startup: 4 ••• SH(FF): 39 (27) ••• FH: 64 ••• optimal SHFF input: 23 ••• airtime prior to FF: 19

nair: Landing Lag: 7
fair: Landing Lag: 11
bair: Landing Lag: 7
uair: Landing Lag: 7
dair: Landing Lag: 7

Moves with the Sakurai angle: Fsmash - F858, Nair, Fair, Bair, Fthrow


Pikachu:

jump startup: 4 ••• SH(FF): 40 (??) ••• FH: 60 ••• optimal SHFF input: ?? ••• airtime prior to FF: ??

nair: Landing Lag: 13
fair: Landing Lag: 8
bair: Landing Lag: 15
uair: Landing Lag: 12
dair: Landing Lag: 20

standing grab: 6 ••• dash grab: 9 ••• pivot grab: 10

Moves with the Sakurai angle: Nair, SideB, DownB


Pit:

jump startup: 4 ••• SH(FF): 39 (??) ••• FH: 58 ••• optimal SHFF input: ?? ••• airtime prior to FF: ??

nair: Landing Lag: 12
fair: Landing Lag: 7
bair: Landing Lag: 7
uair: Landing Lag: 12
dair: Landing Lag: 12

standing grab: ? ••• dash grab: ? ••• pivot grab: ?

Moves with the Sakurai angle: Ftilt, Fsmash, Dsmash - 1st hit, Fair - can combo, Bair, Fthrow


Rob:

jump startup: 4 ••• SH(FF): 45 (??) ••• FH: 69 ••• optimal SHFF input: ?? ••• airtime prior to FF: ??

nair: Landing Lag: 7?
fair: Landing Lag: 7
bair: Landing Lag: 7
uair: Landing Lag: 11
dair: Landing Lag: 11

standing grab: ? ••• dash grab: ? ••• pivot grab: ?

Samus:

jump startup: ? ••• SH(FF): 44 (??) ••• FH: 77 ••• optimal SHFF input: ?? ••• airtime prior to FF: ??

nair: Landing Lag: 7
fair: Landing Lag: 7
bair: Landing Lag: 7
uair: Landing Lag: 7
dair: Landing Lag: 7

standing grab: ? ••• dash grab: ? ••• pivot grab: ?


Sheik:

jump startup: 4 ••• SH(FF): 30 (22) ••• FH: 50 ••• optimal FF frame: 19 ••• airtime prior to FF: 15

nair: Landing Lag: 7
fair: Landing Lag: 7
bair: Landing Lag: 7
uair: Landing Lag: 11
dair: Landing Lag: 13


Snake:

jump startup: 7 ••• SH(FF): 34 (??) ••• FH: 47 ••• optimal SHFF input: ?? ••• airtime prior to FF: ??

nair: Landing Lag: 15
fair: Landing Lag: 15
bair: Landing Lag: 15
uair: Landing Lag: 11
dair: Landing Lag: 15

standing grab: ? ••• dash grab: ? ••• pivot grab: ?


Sonic

jump startup: 4 ••• SH(FF): 37 (??) ••• FH: 57 ••• optimal FF frame: ?? ••• airtime prior to FF: ??

nair: Landing Lag: 7
fair: Landing Lag: 15
bair: Landing Lag: 7
uair: Landing Lag: 11
dair: Landing Lag: 15

standing grab: ? ••• dash grab: ? ••• pivot grab: ?


Squirtle

jump startup: 4 ••• SH(FF): 33 (23) ••• FH: 63 ••• optimal SHFF input: 20 ••• airtime prior to FF: 16

nair: Landing Lag: 7
fair: Landing Lag: 12
bair: Landing Lag: 7
uair: Landing Lag: 11
dair: Landing Lag: 10

standing grab: ? ••• dash grab: ? ••• pivot grab: ?


Toon Link:

jump startup: 4 ••• SH(FF): 44 (??) ••• FH: 65 ••• optimal SHFF input: ?? ••• airtime prior to FF: ??

nair: Landing Lag: 8
fair: Landing Lag: 12
bair: Landing Lag: 7
uair: Landing Lag: 11
dair: Landing Lag: 20

standing grab: ? ••• dash grab: ? ••• pivot grab: ?


Wario:

jump startup: 5 ••• SH(FF): 38 (27) ••• FH: 57 ••• optimal SHFF input: 20 ••• airtime prior to FF: 15

nair: Landing Lag: 7
fair: Landing Lag: 8
bair: Landing Lag: 15
uair: Landing Lag: 7
dair: Landing Lag: 10

standing grab: ? ••• dash grab: ? ••• pivot grab: ?


Wolf:

jump startup: 4 ••• SH(FF): 29 (21) ••• FH: 45 ••• optimal FF frame: 18 ••• airtime prior to FF: 14

nair: Landing Lag: 7 ••• aerial FAF: 40
fair: Landing Lag: 15
bair: Landing Lag: 10
uair: Landing Lag: 7
dair: Landing Lag: 10

standing grab: ? ••• dash grab: ? ••• pivot grab: ?

Yoshi: ALR not yet manually confirmed

jump startup: 5 ••• SH(FF): 46 (33) ••• FH: 68 ••• optimal FF frame: 28 ••• airtime prior to FF: 23 ••• can DJC

nair: Landing Lag: 7
fair: Landing Lag: 8
bair: Landing Lag: 7
uair: Landing Lag: 7
dair: Landing Lag: 10

standing grab: 17? ••• dash grab: 12 ••• pivot grab: 10


Zelda:

jump startup: 5 ••• SH(FF): 39 (??) ••• FH: 68 ••• optimal SHFF input: ?? ••• airtime prior to FF: ??

nair: Landing Lag: 7
fair: Landing Lag: 11
bair: Landing Lag: 11
uair: Landing Lag: 11
dair: Landing Lag: 11

standing grab: ? ••• dash grab: ? ••• pivot grab: ?

Moves with the Sakurai angle: Ftilt, Fsmash, Dsmash, Fair, Bair, Bthrow


ZSS:ALR not yet manually confirmed


jump startup: 4 ••• SH(FF): 40 (??) ••• FH: 70 ••• optimal SHFF input: ?? ••• airtime prior to FF: ??

nair: Landing Lag: 7
fair: Landing Lag: 8
bair: Landing Lag: 7
uair: Landing Lag: 7
dair: Landing Lag: 20

standing grab: ? ••• dash grab: ? ••• pivot grab: ?


Random stuff you might not know:

Canceling a run with crouch takes 1 frame.

Dash canceling a run preserves momentum, dash canceling a dash (with shield) negates momentum.

Ledge-canceled hitstun: Ledge-grabbing works as though hitstun were at vBrawl levels, thus grabbing the ledge to cancel hitstun is possible.

b-reversal input is read on frame 3

isjr for most moves occurs when you would land on the first iasa frame and have buffered a jump.

double jumps have a 1 frame startup

powershieldstun = vbrawl shieldstun

I am adorable

Veril said:

OK, time to share something kinda boring but really useful.

Counting frames is incredibly tedious and a waste of time. If you're collecting data that requires frame-advance rather than PSA (say you're finding shield or hitstun data) its a lot easier if you give a frame value to the clock timer. What I like to do to make things easiest for me is to have the initial input frames for whatever I'm testing occur on the x:00 mark.

So I made this little chart for easy conversions:

Code:

Time	Frame			
x:00	0			
98	1		48	31
96	2		46	32
95	3		45	33
93	4		43	34
91	5		41	35
90	6		40	36
88	7		38	37
86	8		36	38
85	9		35	39
83	10		33	40
81	11		31	41
80	12		30	42
78	13		28	43
76	14		26	44
75	15		25	45
73	16		23	46
71	17		21	47
70	18		20	48
68	19		18	49
66	20		16	50
65	21		15	51
63	22		13	52
61	23		11	53
60	24		10	54
58	25		8	55
56	26		6	56
55	27		5	57
53	28		3	58
51	29		1	59
50	30		x+1:00	60

Ex. lets say I'm finding throw data.

I'll grab Lucario (with his weight mod of 0) at the desired % with the character in question. Let the timer run down to the xx:00 mark (seconds:milliseconds), and input the throw on that frame. I than have a point of reference and can really easily gather the rest of the data by buffering shield to determine the IASA, alternating jump and tap-jump to determine the escape frame, watching the damage marker to determine release frame... and I can play with DI or teching etc etc etc... you see how this is way easier than counting frames when you're doing close to a thousand tests minimum.

Click to expand...

How to find stuff in frame advance

Grounded IASA: buffer shield
Aerial IASA or escape frame: alternate jump and tap jump

With finding the hitstun escape frame its best to make sure the opponent is thrown offstage, otherwise you'll find the "first techable frame" which you may also want depending on the throw.

If you are gathering hitstun data:
-hitstun = Escape frame - Release frame
-keep in mind its % and character dependent
-most characters suffer equal hitstun from a move at 0%.
-moves with a high bkb to KBG ratio will have more consistent hitstun values across the cast and %.

If you are gathering ONLY advantage data on a throw:
-Advantage on a non-teched throw= Escape frame (thrown character) - First actionable frame.
-keep in mind that weight dependent throws will yield different FAFs based on character thrown.

obviously Advantage also = (hitstun + release frame) - First actionable frame.

Click to expand...

wooh another veril data thread

i likey

now more data

there isnt a frame advance code that works with classic controllers, is there? id try to help you with whatever (but mainly on weekends) if there was...

Oh... I'll give you more data...

every few minutes, I'm on a role ;p
Someone would have to change the button modifier component of the frame advance code for it to work with classic controllers. Any takers? ;p It would give me some actual incentive to use the thing lol

Lookin' good. I must learn how to use the frame advance code myself...and I also require an additional SD card.

I'm wondering what other data you plan on *collecting* via frame advance since basically everything aside from gravity and jump height alterations can be single handedly determined via brawlbox or PSA or hitlag advantage calculations (probably the most useful data to collect since this stuff we actually need to calculate to determine)

shanus said:

I'm wondering what other data you plan on *collecting* via frame advance since basically everything aside from gravity and jump height alterations can be single handedly determined via brawlbox or PSA or hitlag advantage calculations (probably the most useful data to collect since this stuff we actually need to calculate to determine)

Click to expand...

Hitstun data can't be collected directly from PSA, and if its possible to calculate movement data that way, be my guest. I also don't know how to find SHLD with PSA so I'm checking that (esp with Marth) for certain moves. Manual calculation doesn't mean I'm only counting frames ;p

So yeah, adv. on hit / throw / block and movement frame data are what I'm getting. Things like ALR I just confirm manually because I'm a PSA Luddite. I also someday hope to finish my now 6-month long unified advantage formula project (from when I first joined the wbr).

Wow, nice work Veril! Also congrats on taking over Brawl+, I'm sure you'll do great!!

lol Sonic?

10Sonic

updated

even updated sonic

added on block info for Ike's side-b as well as getting all the ALR SH and FH data up (still need some SHFF data but w/e)

Do you want me to help with identifying Sakurai angle attacks?