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DK can just beast through attacks with DI!

Chaosgriffin

Chaosgriffin

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How to DI with Donkey Kong!​

This thread will go over every application that DI can be used for. Surviving with DI, getting out of multi-hit attacks with DI, surviving spikes with DI, and many other applications that we hope to uncover.

Terms​
SDI-Smash DI is where you repeatedly press the C-stick and analog stick in a direction to move in that direction.
IDI-Influential DI, or just regular DI is where you hold the analog stick to get sent in that direction after being hit.


Applications of DI​
What can we do with SDI?​

  • SDI can be used to get out of multi-hit attacks.
What can we do with IDI?​

  • IDI can be used to go in a desired direction after being hit.
    IDI can be used to survive spikes
    IDI can be used to get out of multi-hit attacks that are slow (like Wolf's Up smash)


Survival DI​
If you are hit up
  • IDI to the left or right, to increase the distance you have to travel to hit the blastzone.
  • To momentum cancel do a back air, then fast fall it. If it looks like you will die, Up B after the back air. The Up B stops all momentum in all directions, however after the up b you are helpless so try to think of a way to fall safely back on stage.
  • You could also do a dair. The dair will be a little bit better at slowing you down then a fast falled bair. The only problem is that you have a lot of lag so if someone can pressure you while you are up in the air they can hit you while during your lag. (Do not use dair to cancel momentum against a pikachu, you will get thundered!)
If you are hit to the side
  • IDI up at a 45 degree angle (aim for the corner), to increase the distance you have to travel to hit the blastzone.
  • If you IDI straight up there is a chance you will go above the corner of the blastzone and die sooner then you should have.
  • To momentum cancel do a back air, then fast fall it.
  • There are different options after the fast fall that you can choose to cancel even more momentum.
    1. You can double jump after the fastfall, the double jump will slow you down a small amount. The double jump also puts you more in the corner of the blastzone so can live longer.
    2. You can do a B-reverse headbutt. A B-reverse headbutt will stop all momentum. If you are going to perform this make sure you practice it first! If you do do not reverse it and just do a regular headbutt you will shoot off and die. (more on B-reverse in second post)
    3. If it looks like you will die no matter what you do, Up B after the fastfall. The Up B stops all momentum in all directions, however after the up b you are helpless so try to think of a way to fall safely back on stage.
  • IDI and SDI down and tech the ground. As pointed out by bigfoot make sure you tech-roll away. By doing this you can survive at any percent, it is really risky to do. If you miss the tech chances are you will die since you DI'ed down. I advise doing this only when you know you will die no matter what.

Getting out of Attacks with DI​

:metaknight:
Tornado-SDI up

:snake:
Neutral Air- SDI up and away
Up Smash- IDI to the left or right to avoid getting hit by the mortar
Down Air- SDI up
Jab Combo-IDI away hold shield to block third hit
Jab to Forward Tilt-SDI into Snake

:wario:
Up Smash- SDI up
Down Air- SDI up

:falco:
Chain Grab to Spike- IDI and SDI towards the ledge and tech http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFgf2EKYB4g
Neutral Air- SDI up
Forward Air-SDI and IDI up and away
Jab Combo- ??

:diddy:
Dash Attack- SDI up
Up Smash - SDI to the side

:dedede:
Down Air- SDI and IDI up and into DDD
Up Air-SDI up and to the side

:marth:
Forward B- SDI up (this is only good for the green mutli hit attack)

:gw:
Back Air- SDI up
Neutral Air- SDI to the side

:pikachu2:
Down Smash-SDI up
Forward Air- SDI away
Back Air-SDI up

:olimar:
Up Air- SDI and IDI up and away
Up Tilt- SDI to the side

:popo:
Down B- SDI and IDI up and away
Forward B- SDI up

:rob:
Down Smash- SDI up
Up Air- SDI down

:kirby2:
Dash Attack- SDI up and into Kirby

:lucario:
Jab Combo- IDI away hold hold shield to block third hit
Up Tilt Combo- IDI to the side
Forward Air Combo- IDI down and hold shield

:zerosuitsamus:
Up B-??
Jab Combo-IDI away and hold shield to block third hit

:toonlink:
Forward Smash- SDI and IDI up
Up Tilt Combo- IDI to the side
Back Air Combo-??

:pit:
Up Air-SDI up
Neutral Air- SDI into Pit
Forward Smash- SDI and IDI up
Forward B- SDI away

:dk2:
Up B- SDI up
Cargo Stage Spike- IDI up
Up Tilt Combo- IDI to the side
Sakurai Combo- GET WRECKED!

:peach:
Down Air- SDI away
Down Smash- SDI up

:luigi2:
Up Tilt Combo- IDI to the side
Down B- SDI up if cyclone is on the ground or if luigi is falling with it SDI down if Luigi is rising with it
Jab Combo- IDI away and hold shield

:fox:
Forward Air- SDI down and into Fox
Down Air-SDI up and into Fox
Up Tilt Combo- IDI to the side

:wolf:
Up Smash- IDI to left or right to avoid getting hit by the second hit
Neutral Air- SDI up or away from wolf

:sonic:
Up Smash- SDI up and to the side

:shiek:
Forward Tilt Combo-IDI up and SDI away

:bowser2:
Neutral B- IDI towards Bowser to punish with Headbutt. Or if you just want to get out of the flame IDI up or back
Down Smash-??
Down B- IDI into the attack (this only works if bowser does this move from the ground, if youIDI into it sometimes you will be sent too far and Bowser will miss his *** slam

:zelda:
Up Smash-??
Neutral Air- SDI up and away
Neutral B-SDI away and hold shield

:squirtle:
Jab Combo-IDI away and hold shield
Up Tilt Combo-IDI to the side
Up Air Combo-IDI to the side

:ivysaur:
Neutral B- SDI up
Neutral Air- SDI to the side
Forward Tilt-SDI up

:charizard:
Neutral B-IDI and SDI away
Up Smash-??

:ike:
Jab Combo-IDI away hold shield or IDI and SDI up if up against a wall
Up B-??

:lucas:
Neutral Air-??
Down Air-??
Down Smash-??

:mario2:
Down Air-??
Jab Combo-??
Up Air Combo-??

:ness2:
Forward Air-??
PK Fire-SDI up

:yoshi2:
Down Air- SDI up into Yoshi
Back Air- SDI into Yoshi

:samus2:
Up Air- SDI lto the side and up
Up B- SDI to the side and up

:jigglypuff:
??

:falcon:
??

:link2:
??
Jab Combo-??
Up Smash-SDI to the left or right
Forward Smash-??

:ganondorf:
??
 
Chaosgriffin

Chaosgriffin

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B-reverse Headbutt​

B-reverse Headbutt Mini Jump
Even though the B-reverse headbutt will stop all your momentum, when you perform it you will rise a certain amount. The higher damage you have the faster you are traveling the higher you will rise. The rise is a nice thing in my opinion, it will move you closer to the corner of the blastzone, you are higher in the air so you can do more with your recovery, and it is basically like a second double jump.

B-reverse Headbutt vs Up B Break
Up B starts at frame 4 while Headbutt starts on frame 20, so by using Up B you get a .267 sec advantage. Up B break will stop you sooner, but after wards you are helpless, and you just have to hope that your opponent misses you. With B-reverse you will travel slightly further but you will not be helpless.

Testing
I tested how far you travel with Up B break, and how far with B-reverse headbutt. Here are my results.
I tested on New Pork City in training mode. I stood on the bottom platform on the right side of the stage. I got up to 100%, turned the speed down to 1/2 (so I could buffer everything) summoned a bob-omb and blew myself up with down smash. When I blew up I did not IDI the explosion, this way I was sent at the same angle every time. After I blew up I did bair, no fastfall, then B-reverse headbutt. After I landed I marked how far I traveled with a CPU. I did everything again the exact same, except this time I used Up B. After I landed I tested to see how far apart the travel distances were. They were approximately one dodge roll apart.
 
Te-Jay

Te-Jay

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Using both SDI and TDI really give the best results if you can manage it.

This next part is about momentum canceling and air braking.
(this is the stuff i do all the time and i find it helps me live an average of 160-170% almost every stock)
If you are hit to the side:
B air as fast as you can for the best momentum cancel. If it looks like you will die, quickly up b to stop ALL momentum and head back in the other direction. This will leave DK helpless, so try and mindgame your opponent to make it back safely.
If you are hit up:
Basically the same for the side. B air and go for the fastfall d air. If it looks like you will die, up b after the b air. This will save you for now, but your opponent awaits below.


EDIT: with MK's nado, tdi+sdi up as fast as you can
EDIT 2: What i do when facing bowser, is when he flame's you, IDI toward him into the flame, constantly hitting side b. when you get close enough, side b WILL hit, setting up for loads.

I'll name a few moves and the DI off the top of my head:
Samus: u air, sdi left/right/up, up b, sdi left/right/up
fox: f air, sdi up/away
zelda: any move that hits more then once: sdi away
DK: (:O) up b: sdi up or away
ivysaur: neutral b: tdi+sdi away
 
A2ZOMG

A2ZOMG

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Luigi's Jab to Up-B does not need DI to escape, as it's blockable against Donkey Kong (assume grounded position and neutral DI). If you are in the air when he Jabs, just try to jump out of it.

A good Luigi will only Jab grab, Jab cancel Jab, or Jab D-smash against Donkey Kong.
 
Luigi player

Luigi player

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After bair+fastfall you can also DJ if you're hit to the right/left, as it stops a little momentum.
 
NatP

NatP

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OMG, all this time I've thought that TDI was SDI and SDI was TDI. Whoa, I'm so ********.

Anyway good stuff.
 
I

itsthebigfoot

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ok, this is what I've been doing in most games lately. Some attacks are landable, but they're almost always used to punish you on your landing (i.e. DK/Falco fsmash), if you SDI these down, and try to tech roll away (never neutral tech, it sucks and you'll get hit again). you'll survive a lot of punishes that would normally kill you
 
DKwill

DKwill

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I am in 100% approval of this thread. I don't SDI nearly enough and if I do I'm not always aware of it. Good **** for coming up with this chaos =)

I'm off to work now, but I'll be back to post what I know for each of the character matchups soon.
 
Micaelis

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A very good idea. This is probably one of my biggest problems with DK sadly enough. Especially in the G&W MU I need to SDI the Bair more. It eats me alive x_x I'll try to help fill out some of these ?? this weekend. I'm going to a tournament and I'll see if I can bring my laptop with me.
 
DKwill

DKwill

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Ok so I am going to go off the top of my head by going through each character and telling you guys what I know:

Pikachu's b-air- I have a lot of experience in this matchup. If Pikachu b-airs DK, you can SDI up to pop out and then you can punish him HARD. If you get out quickly enough you can easily down smash him if he is near the ground bc his b-air has a lot of landing lag.

Lucario's side b chain grab- If you mash on the face buttons fast enough you can break out of the chain grab. It helps if you are already buffering the button mashing before they go for the next side b. However, there are other follow ups to the side b, and they do not have to side b continuously to combo DK.

ZSS' jab combo- ZSS' love to jab. Just remember that if they are not jab canceling- which they probably won't bc all of her jabs are fast- just hold your shield. Even if the first two jabs hit you, the third one is immediately powershielded if you just buffer a shield.

Pit's up-air- You can SDI up to get out of Pit's up-air fairly quickly so that you won't take all of the damage.

Sheik's f-tilt- You can SDI down and hold shield to get to the ground and get a shield up against it. If you take a few hits and there are platforms around however, it is also good to up-b away from Sheik bc it will trade damage with her and you can lagless land on platforms.

Ike's jab combo- You have to DI away from Ike during his jabs otherwise he can keep canceling them and keep you trapped indefinitely. lol. It wouldn't hurt to SDI away as well.

Link's up-smash- I know you can SDI to the left or right to get out of Link's up smash since I have done this and popped out before the last of his three slashes. You have time to punish with something quick like a tilt or a grab.
 
Ragnar0k

Ragnar0k

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We can't automatically buffer a perfect shield on zero suit's jab if we're in the air when she hits us with it, but it does work when we're on the ground.
 
stingers

stingers

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you can powershield the third hit of snakes jab, too

well, other characters can. i assume dk can too @.@
 
Ripple

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SDI and TDI are the exact same thing on multi hits.

it is not necessary and the term is not used anymore.

just include that repeated SDI is used for multi hits
 
Chaosgriffin

Chaosgriffin

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Ripple said:
SDI and TDI are the exact same thing on multi hits.

it is not necessary and the term is not used anymore.

just include that repeated SDI is used for multi hits
Click to expand...
They have the same effects is true, but doing both will get you out of multi hit attacks faster. I posted both to let people know who are new to DI'ing, or for people who did not know that you could use the analog stick to DI with. SDI uses the C-stick TDI uses the analog stick, how are they the same?
 
Luigi player

Luigi player

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Some people say both TDI and SDI, but I think it will suffice to call it SDI. Maybe just write in the OP "You can SDI with both the Controlstick and the Cstick, if you do it with both of them it has an even greater effect." or something.

Because every time you say "you can SDI/TDI" you have to say both since it's even better than if you just use one stick for it... let's just use one term for it. It's easier and basically means the same. It's called SDI since Melee and I never heard anyone say TDI... I think in some Brawl guides people started to seperate them...
 
Donkey Bong

Donkey Bong

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quarter circle DI is another way of saying SDI iirc

also, TDI was a SSB64 term, since there was no C-stick it was just with the analog stick. so some people who have been playing since 64 call it TDI
 
Ragnar0k

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Well you see, quarter-circle DI is a form of SDI because each of the inputs along the quarter circle is an SDI input.
 
Ripple

Ripple

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crifer said:
I thought SDI was pressing repeatedly in one direction.
quarter-circle DI was rotating the c stick in a quarter circle or?
Click to expand...
QCDI is a form of SDI. it basically inputs 2-3 frames of SDI with just a flick since joystick inputs something every frame when used like that but you cant get another SDI input in the same direction unless the joy stick returns to a neutral position. but since brawl has so little hit stun by the time your joy stick returns to a netural postion, your character is sent flying. no more than 2-3 inputs every happen of SDI in the same direction because of how hard it is
 
A

ardirok

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Post a video about the reverse headbutt If you can.

I have trouble to do this technique.
 
Ragnar0k

Ragnar0k

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side b and then hit the other direction really fast. I use it all the time now, it ***** the up b break.
 
Chaosgriffin

Chaosgriffin

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I use it a lot too, it is pretty easy to do when momentum canceling since you can buffer it after your bair really easily.


I am trying to use it on the ground more in my game. Instead of going for a pivot grab do a reverse headbutt, think about it. Headbutt > grab. I actually pulled one off today against a Pika.
 
A

ardirok

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Great video!

I will try and pratice the reverse headbutt with the bob-ombs...looks like a good way to pratice DI and tech too in New Pork City.
 
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