Official Tournament Rules Discussion TOPIC

Use this topic to discuss what the standard SSB console tournament rules should be. I created these rules for the TourneyPlay #4 tournament with a suggestion from Nintendude and Lovage. I think they are pretty good.

General
5 Stock, Double Elimination, No Items, Advanced Slob Picks

Best of 3, WF/LF/GF Best of 5, LS Best of 5 if pay out is top 3

Extreme Stalling will result in a Warning and then a Disqualification

Best of 3 Stage Rules (unless agreed upon)
First game must be on Hyrule
Counterpicks: Hyrule, Dreamland, Kongo Jungle, Peach's Castle

Best of 5 Stage Rules (unless agreed upon)
First game must be on Hyrule
Counterpicks: Hyrule, Dreamland, Kongo Jungle, Peach's Castle
SSB DSR: You can't counterpick with a stage you have already won on (does not apply to the win from the first game)

Explanation
Hyrule is the most neutral stage in the game. I think the first match should be on the stage with the least disadvantages for all characters. (unless agreed upon) means both players can agree to play on ANY stage for ANY match.

Advanced Slob Picks: Loser picks stage first, then winner picks character, then loser picks character (in that order)

DSR stands for Dave's Stupid Rule; a guy named Dave created this type of rule for SSBM tournaments. LS = Losers Semis.

Things to Consider
Maybe there could be a 10 minute time limit on Hyrule only. Dunno if that can be enforced every time though.

What about simply having a stop watch set for 10 mins at the start of the match (2 mins per stock) and if the time ends before the match, whoever has the most stocks wins. Any more than 2 minutes per stock would certainly qualify for camping. I've played some really fast paced matches where the entire match is done in just over 2 minutes, so I think 10 is more than plenty.

malva00 said:

Explanation
Hyrule is the most neutral stage in the game. I think the first match should be on the stage with the least disadvantages for all characters. (unless agreed upon) means both players can agree to play on ANY stage for ANY match.

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agreed
10char

M3tr01D said:

What about simply having a stop watch set for 10 mins at the start of the match (2 mins per stock) and if the time ends before the match, whoever has the most stocks wins. Any more than 2 minutes per stock would certainly qualify for camping. I've played some really fast paced matches where the entire match is done in just over 2 minutes, so I think 10 is more than plenty.

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Yeah I didn't put the time limit in yet cuz I don't know if tournaments would be able to enforce it in every match, even if they state it in the rules. I updated the bottom of the post though.

M3tr01D said:

What about simply having a stop watch set for 10 mins at the start of the match (2 mins per stock) and if the time ends before the match, whoever has the most stocks wins. Any more than 2 minutes per stock would certainly qualify for camping. I've played some really fast paced matches where the entire match is done in just over 2 minutes, so I think 10 is more than plenty.

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So what happens if someone gets a stock lead then runs away / camps for the remaining 9 minutes?

my matches with kefit are usually 10-15 minutes lol!

Link vs Pikachu may turn into Pikachu getting a lead, then running away/camping for 9 minutes (or however long is necessary)... especially on Hyrule. I'll try this out at my smash fest tomorrow (tell someone to go Pikachu and run away for... say... 2 minutes, while trying to get the least damage possible).

I think for smash 64, it's best not to have a timer, but have some rule that prevents excessive camping.

I already put the usual warning and DQ rule into the first post.

And **** the word excessive it's all about EXTREME now

and lol @ pikachu EXTREME camping Link on Hyrule. Link has a better chance to win if Pikachu does that. There's no way anyone other than Fox, with his reflector, can camp Link on Hyrule, and even that is a dumb strategy against Link. Sooner or later, the more bomb/boomerang throws you give Link the more chances he'll have to follow up.

Yeah I kind of agree, if you're just running away that opens you up to getting caught and punished. I think the 10 minute timer is too large to honestly have the match end from just running away.

M3tr01D said:

Yeah I kind of agree, if you're just running away that opens you up to getting caught and punished. I think the 10 minute timer is too large to honestly have the match end from just running away.

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The timer is usually so tournaments end on time and matches aren't ridiculously long.

I say timer is a good thing. I also say if they end up camping alot and you tell them not to more then one time then its time to dq.

Define extreme camping. It sounds way too subjective.

Tambor said:

Define extreme camping. It sounds way too subjective.

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I will in half an hour let's just play and get this match done and over with. Sec gonna make myself some coffee.

I don't really like the "you're camping do it again and you're dq'd" idea. To me, camping is more situational. When someone goes down into the tent and gets warned for camping, keep in mind that the other player is camping in the middle area and won't move either. Sometimes it's smarter to fight in a different area, seems unfair to say who is camping.

Particular match that comes to mind is fox vs falcon, I try to avoid the middle section of hyrule whenever possible. Some falcon players might avoid the sides because it's easier for falcon to get gimped there. Would I be camping? Maybe. I don't see a reason why I would be forced to go fight falcon on the main platform, where he can dash grab and dash smash and where if I miss my laser it results in cruel and unusual (lol) punishment.


extreme camping is foxes laser on the right hand cloud of Yoshi's Island.

Tambor said:

Define extreme camping. It sounds way too subjective.

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k maybe camping isn't the right word I want then lol. I guess it should be EXTREME stalling. I'll change my first post.

EXTREME stalling is ONE PERSON pointlessly running away for a prolonged period of time in a way that makes it almost impossible for his or her opponent to hit them. This rule is to make sure tournaments end on time.

A good example of this is Pikachu going back and forth between the top platorm of Hyrule to the house on the right against Samus. In most other cases, any skilled player should be able to catch the other sooner or later. However, as the skill level drops, it is much easier for one to run away from the other, in which case the person running away might be warned if it goes on for too long.

As long as you're doing damage within a reasonable amount of time, it's not stalling to me. Fox running away all day (not literally) shooting lasers is not stalling to me, unless it jeopardizes the completion of the tournament.

On the other hand, camping would be someone staying on a certain portion of the map the whole time, and I have no problem with that. If Kirby stays on the left side of Hyrule the whole match, that's completely fine with me. If Fox successfully laser camps until his opponent is at killing percent and then camps on the left side of hyrule, that's also fine with me. To me, anything goes in SSB.

From here, it's up to the opponent to decide if he wants to go in for an attack or not. If BOTH players chose not to attack, then it's a STANDSTILL. So I guess STANDSTILLS are what we need to address next. I'll edit this post when I think of something. Only thing so far is a time limit, but we know how dumb those can be with people running out the time.

Words of wisdom. The most obvious solution in my opinion would be just to say: "if there's no damage done to either party in an X minute long time period, both are disqualified and the person they'd be facing gets a bye." Of course, this does lend itself to certain abuses (what happens if it's a final?) but until someone comes up with something better...

If this was hosted on Wii's, someone could use GeckoOS to run a special hacked version of ssb64 where it would include a timer on stock matches just like melee. Whoever codes it puts it such that person with more stock wins (or less damage if equal stocks). Isn't this how melee matches are decided by time?

I'm sure this is actually possible.

i like these rules

we should make them the standard ssb64 tournament rules

hyrule **** tent ftw!

These rules should be placed as standard. The Advanced Slop Picks(love this rule) should be enforced tho...many of the tournaments ive been to this rule was not regulated and enforced.

I have some more tourney rules in mind:

1. If your controller breaks, your opponent does not have to cease attacking while you find another controller to plug in.

2. Failure to shake your opponent's hand at the end of a set will result in a 1 stock deduction at the beginning of your next match and 20% of your winnings if you make it into the money. However, you may pound if you believe your opponent's hand is too sweaty or bump any suitable body parts if you believe your opponent has been coughing on his/her hands the whole day. If you're a minor and don't want to have any physical contact with another player, you must turn in a note signed by your parent or guardian to the tournament organizer BEFORE the tournament begins. If your opponent runs away and claims you didn't want to shake his/her hand, an investigation will commence, and the liar will be thrown out of the venue head first.

3. If you accidentally pause while being comboed, you must kill yourself after unpausing. If you accidentally pause when both players are relatively close to each other, then your opponent may afflict you with 100% damage, and both players will return to their corners before continuing the match.

4. Performing the following will earn you Skill Points. Exchange these Skill Points for prizes/food/drink at the venue's designated Skill Point Prize Redemption Counter. Only official tournament Judges can award Skill Points.

General Skill Points
- Shield Break (the standard ness/kirby/yoshi shield breaks do not qualify) (5 SP)
- Zero to Death combo (5 SP)
- Taunt cancel during a combo (minimum 2 hits after taunt) (10 SP) (1 SP per taunt if aided by Dreamland's wind)
- Reverse ledge DI recovery (10 SP)
- Force a genuine RageQuit from your opponent (15 SP)
- 2/3/4 stock comeback in singles (when you have 1 stock left) (10/20/30 SP)
- JV 5 stock (50 SP)

Teams Specific Skill Points
- Save partner from sure death AFTER he/she gets hit (5 SP)
- Same attack double kill (team opponents only) (10 SP)
- Same attack triple kill (team opponents + partner) (20 SP)

Character Specific Skill Points
- Luigi double up B combo / taunt hit (5/5 SP)
- Mario down B spike kill / down B spike to up smash kill / up B to up smash combo kill (5/5/5 SP)
- Link successful bomb recovery / boomerang x 3 combo kill (5/10 SP)
- Samus bomb 3+ hit combo / up B ledge canceled combo (5/10 SP)
- Falcon aerial falcon kick edgeguard kill / reverse fair combo kill (5/10 SP)
- Ness successful up B recovery after being hit out 2 additional times / up B combo (5/10 SP)
- Yoshi parry to combo kill / platform jump canceled combo kill / neutral B kill (5/5/5 SP)
- Kirby neutral B kill / ledge canceled down B combo or kill (5/10 SP)
- Fox light Uair x 3 combo kill / double laser to up smash kill (5/5 SP)
- Pikachu up B to ledge cancel kill / triple down B kill (10/10 SP)
- Jiggly sliding rest kill / double reverse pound combo kill (5/5 SP)

Any players conspiring to gratuitously accumulate Skill Points will lose all their Skill Points and will not be eligible to acquire Skill Points for the duration of the tournament. Skill Points may not be sold or traded.

Note: I'm only serious with number 3

cool rules bro

lol minor not hand shaking / pound?

im 16 and i dont see why that would be bad

parents/kids these days.

Yo Isai's the truth. lol

Good ideas Malva.
For further clarity I would add the Team Category to the SP thing. And I think maybe additional points should be awarded if those skills are performed during the final or other important game.

The SP idea is awesome, I can imagine players going out of their way to perform them. It may really spice things up.

Edit: **** it's all a joke. It would still be cool.

I don't like Hyrule because of everything that's said on the previous page. If you have high percent it's smart to stay on the right side, if you have low percent it's smart to stay on the left side, so on top level play nothing will happen. With a time limit, the player with the highest amount of damage and stocks has to undertake action, so that's good. Then you will only have a problem when both players have the same amount of damage and stocks, but that isn't that much of a problem. So I think a time limit is necessary. By the way, I think extreme stalling in the sense of running away when you have the advantage is totally valid, unless it's impossible for your opponent to do anything about it.

In addition, I don't agree that Hyrule should always be the first stage. Even if it does provide the least amount of disadvantages, which is debatable, the stage is not neutral enough because of the area on the right, which causes stalling/camping, longer combos, longer survivals, in other words: not standard play. I think stage striking should be used in all official sets, with three stages (Hyrule + Dreamland + Congo Jungle) or with 5 stages (+ Peach Castle + Zebes/Saffron), preferably with 5.

for number 3 what if you're itchy (it happens)

B Link said:

for number 3 what if you're itchy (it happens)

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play through it.

actually the pausing during combo thing seems like an issue that should be thought about. If you play wide grip (left hand on the far left part of the controller) your thumb can easily slide off the joystick while you're doing an up move or up DI and hit start. I've done it many times on accident and it's awkward.

M3tr01D said:

actually the pausing during combo thing seems like an issue that should be thought about. If you play wide grip (left hand on the far left part of the controller) your thumb can easily slide off the joystick while you're doing an up move or up DI and hit start. I've done it many times on accident and it's awkward.

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i highly recommend using middle right

i used the wings method for like my entire life before i played 64

and it's much better to use middle right

If you use middle right though how can you use the dpad or L button without taking your hand off the controller?

hit your L trigger with your knee or chin lol

I always just reach around with my right hand.

SuPeRbOoM said:

hit your L trigger with your knee or chin lol

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*imagines trying to taunt cancel with falcon on top of the **** tent*

malva00 said:

2. Failure to shake your opponent's hand at the end of a set will result in a 1 stock deduction at the beginning of your next match and 20% of your winnings if you make it into the money. However, you may pound if you believe your opponent's hand is too sweaty or bump any suitable body parts if you believe your opponent has been coughing on his/her hands the whole day. If you're a minor and don't want to have any physical contact with another player, you must turn in a note signed by your parent or guardian to the tournament organizer BEFORE the tournament begins. If your opponent runs away and claims you didn't want to shake his/her hand, an investigation will commence, and the liar will be thrown out of the venue head first.

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What about people who forget! I forget to shake hands at the beginning every time I play!

Also, I wouldn't want to touch my hand at all when I'm near any electronics. My hands tend to be a sweaty mess! It's funny, because the rest of my body rarely sweats...

Your ruling on #3 is a legitimate one though. I've seen that several times.

B Link said:

for number 3 what if you're itchy (it happens)

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For itching, be a man and deck your opponent!

But if you really have to go to the bathroom and can't hold it, I think it's smart to add in that if you inform your opponent and reach a pausing spot you both agree on it might be okay to pause.

Just don't take too long!

I personally believe that instead of it being 5 stocks, it should be 10 minutes on the stages.

The first person to lose 5 stocks in the 10 minutes loses (or whoever has the least stocks lost if it is below 5/ damage percent).

Does the smash64 community also go by the rule that if all players agree on a stage that a match can be played there? Or was that always an "unofficial" rule?

yeah that's a rule

it was probably copied over from the melee and brawl rules.

I started a tournament on saffron a long time ago since we both agreed.

KoRoBeNiKi said:

I personally believe that instead of it being 5 stocks, it should be 10 minutes on the stages.

The first person to lose 5 stocks in the 10 minutes loses (or whoever has the least stocks lost if it is below 5/ damage percent).

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IMO I think it should be 8 mins like the melee rule set

8 minutes isn't enough time