• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Ganondorf Stage Match-up Chart

Vermanubis

King of Evil
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
3,399
Location
La Grande, Oregon
NNID
Vermanubis
3DS FC
1564-2185-4386
So, I figured since no one had done a stage chart yet, let alone for Ganondorf, I figured I'd throw something together. As many of you know, using Ganondorf requires you to know EVERYTHING about yourself, your opponent and, of course, your stage. Ganon's good stages are common knowledge, but these good stages are also shared with other characters whose advantages may surpass that of Ganon's. Brinstar for instance. By far Ganon's best counterpick stage. Despite that, it's a place you'd never, ever pick against DK. So, I figured it'd be a neat idea to shed some specific light on where Ganon excels and under what circumstances. I want to emphasize though, that a, let's say, bright green rating on Battlefield against Yoshi does by no means stand to imply the match-up becomes significantly easier. For example, Battlefield is bright green pnly because Yoshi can't grab-release Ganon there and is impeded by the platforms. So bear that in mind.

This is by no means a finished product. While through my personal experience, I believe the chart is holistically accurate, I'm fully aware that it is only about 65-70% so. There are some "guess-work" parts in there which were put in merely to give a general idea of the stage match-up. Over time, we can get this completed with the input of other players, God willing.


If you can't see the legend, it goes:


Bright green - Excellent. The stage both benefits Ganondorf and hurts the opponent.

Green - Good. This stage either hurts the opponent or benefits Ganon mildly.

Yellow - Neutral. The benefits on both sides are even.

Orange - Bad. This stage either hurts Ganondorf or benefits the opponent mildly.

Bright red - Terrible. This stage both hurts Ganondorf and benefits the opponent greatly.

Dark red - Ungodly. Unless God himself intervenes, it is nearly impossible to win on this stage.



Credit to Lazors for the prettying up. :D
 

A2ZOMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
12,542
Location
RPV, California
NNID
A2ZOMG
Switch FC
SW 8400 1713 9427
Not that it matters, but vs G&W is completely unwinnable on Battlefield.

G&W is able to D-smash and D-tilt Ganon while sitting on platforms, which increases his stage control options to a ridiculously unfair degree. Ganondorf can do nothing to recover against a G&W who abuses this tactic for edgeguarding. Well, you can try to ledgeroll, but that is fundamentally the most heavily punishable option.
 

TP

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 28, 2008
Messages
3,341
Location
St. Louis, MO
Since when if Brinstar by far Ganon's best CP?

Anyway, I don't see why BF would be a good stage against ICs... at all. It's just like other flat stages, except now you lose an approach option. Rainbow Cruise is better against them. Also, Japes is not as bad a you make it out to be. It helps against people who like vertical kills, such as Luigi.
 

Vermanubis

King of Evil
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
3,399
Location
La Grande, Oregon
NNID
Vermanubis
3DS FC
1564-2185-4386
Twilight Prince said:
Since when if Brinstar by far Ganon's best CP?

Since when is it not? Considering Norfair is widely banned now, Brinstar is his safe-haven against most characters. More recovery options, much easier to kill people, aerials are easily abusable, easier to deal with camping, easier approaches, etc.

Anyway, I don't see why BF would be a good stage against ICs... at all. It's just like other flat stages, except now you lose an approach option. Rainbow Cruise is better against them. Also, Japes is not as bad a you make it out to be. It helps against people who like vertical kills, such as Luigi.

Like I said in the first post, not all of the chart is solid. There were parts I rushed through. But to answer your question, the reason I put it there as good against them is because a single dair can put them up on the platforms, rendering them helpless. They have no drop-down options to speak of, and it makes getting back onstage hell for them. Besides, why would Ganon approach an IC anyway? It works inversely at BF. You no longer need to approach so adamantly since their projectile can no longer hit you on the platforms.

Japes is good only in a sense that it can prevent vertical KOs. Ganon still suffers far too much there and risks too much if he hits the water. Essentially, Ganon is limited to the center platform. As for Rainbow Cruise, that's actually a good idea. But I still say BF and RC serve different purposes.
Anyway, everyone, just keep giving feedback. And refrain from being a pontiff about it. Not saying anyone thus far has been, but I did put a lot of effort into this chart for the benefit of the community, so I'd like some thoughtful replies. There is a lot of information to be had on this chart; information no single person holds in totality, so expect some errors.
 

Vermanubis

King of Evil
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
3,399
Location
La Grande, Oregon
NNID
Vermanubis
3DS FC
1564-2185-4386
Not that it matters, but vs G&W is completely unwinnable on Battlefield.

G&W is able to D-smash and D-tilt Ganon while sitting on platforms, which increases his stage control options to a ridiculously unfair degree. Ganondorf can do nothing to recover against a G&W who abuses this tactic for edgeguarding. Well, you can try to ledgeroll, but that is fundamentally the most heavily punishable option.
Alright, excellent. Added to the chart. Thanks, A2Z.

Though, I'm going to wait for about 10 revisions on the chart before reposting a new version. So far we have two with your G&W suggestion and TP's RC suggestions against ICs. I'd go with his Japes suggestions, as it is legit to a degree, but Japes is too dangerous. Luigi may have a tough time killing Ganon there, but Ganon's walking on pins and needles the whole time.
 

Breezy

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Messages
531
Location
Minneapolis, MN
I actually think that YI is a decent CP against Wario. The big platform in the middle makes approaching from the air a little tougher, and the fact that stage itself is really small prevents his camping from being as effective. The way that the walls go all the way down helps a little as well. If he runs into them with his bike while trying to recover, it ends up hurting his recovery. Knowing this, Wario will recover away from the stage with his bike, making him more predictable, and thus setting himself up for a nice gimp.

I'm not necessarily saying that YI makes it good for us, but it makes it worse for Wario. I believe that this CP is at LEAST a yellow one, if not a dark green.
 

Vermanubis

King of Evil
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
3,399
Location
La Grande, Oregon
NNID
Vermanubis
3DS FC
1564-2185-4386
I actually think that YI is a decent CP against Wario. The big platform in the middle makes approaching from the air a little tougher, and the fact that stage itself is really small prevents his camping from being as effective. The way that the walls go all the way down helps a little as well. If he runs into them with his bike while trying to recover, it ends up hurting his recovery. Knowing this, Wario will recover away from the stage with his bike, making him more predictable, and thus setting himself up for a nice gimp.

I'm not necessarily saying that YI makes it good for us, but it makes it worse for Wario. I believe that this CP is at LEAST a yellow one, if not a dark green.
I'd say yellow in that case. I didn't think about the fact that the center platform makes him a little more hard pressed to camp. But as you know, YI sucks hard mainly 'cause of the terrain and fact that you can't do a lot of ledge work. D: Wario can still dair you to death. <_>

But thanks, Breezy. Added.
 

Bahamut777

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 1, 2009
Messages
684
Location
Brazil
YI is, indeed the best (neutral) c.pick against Wario. It screws every option of approach he has, but I have a urge to ban YI 'coz I hate it! That sloopy ground gives me the "WTFIhaetbr00l!" feeling... ><

Yellow/DG for that one.

I have more things to say about it, but I'm in a hurry right now. I'll post it tomorow.

BTW, good job gathering your information. When we get the definitive version, I can make a beautiful gay proper chart.
 

smashkng

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
1,742
Location
Malmö, Sweden
NNID
Smashsk
3DS FC
0318-7423-9293
What makes Rainbow Cruise such a bad stage, even against characters with a bad recovery? Ganon has good aerials.
 

SpongeJordan

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
1,594
Location
Waukesha, WI
What makes Rainbow Cruise such a bad stage, even against characters with a bad recovery? Ganon has good aerials.
I love the stage to death. I typically CP it, and rarely get gayed nearly as hard as I do on FD or Japes. Except by MK. That's still not a good idea no matter how you shake it.
 

Vermanubis

King of Evil
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
3,399
Location
La Grande, Oregon
NNID
Vermanubis
3DS FC
1564-2185-4386
What makes Rainbow Cruise such a bad stage, even against characters with a bad recovery? Ganon has good aerials.

You'd be amazed how much bad can happen at RC, even against characters with bad recoveries. Ganon not only has a hard time keeping up with the stage, but he has finds himself in positions where he is being chased around, as he's helpless at certain points. The most notable point would be with the pendulum swing. He's useless there. Then we have the walk off, which is Ganon's worst nightmare.

The only part Ganon can really even be considered decent at is the part succeeding the ship crash where you're ascending the platforms.

In theory, RC could be a decent Ganon CP due to other players' inability to camp. But he fights the stage more than he fights those characters. The only reason I believe RC is a top priority CP against ICs is because it's the only place they can't 0-death him, lol.
 

A2ZOMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
12,542
Location
RPV, California
NNID
A2ZOMG
Switch FC
SW 8400 1713 9427
In theory, RC could be a decent Ganon CP due to other players' inability to camp. But he fights the stage more than he fights those characters. The only reason I believe RC is a top priority CP against ICs is because it's the only place they can't 0-death him, lol.
I wouldn't CP RC against say, Link or Toon Link, since they can still camp on that stage. RC however is better against someone like Falco who has more linear camping.
 

Vermanubis

King of Evil
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
3,399
Location
La Grande, Oregon
NNID
Vermanubis
3DS FC
1564-2185-4386
I wouldn't CP RC against say, Link or Toon Link, since they can still camp on that stage. RC however is better against someone like Falco who has more linear camping.
Aye, true. But the walk-off point is dangerous against Falco. That, and Falco's excellent even without lasers, so his aerials could likely overpower yours. I'd give it an orange for the fact that Falco's camping is definitely hurt, and his recovery isn't great, but Ganon, like I mentioned earlier, is only really good on the ascending part. <_>

For now I'll leave it at red for Falco unless someone mentions some solid reasons to change it. Not having to deal with his CG and camping much is a godsend, but I can't image Ganon getting very far in the face of Falco's incredibly speedy air game.
 

DLA

"Their anguish was my nourishment."
Joined
Jun 28, 2008
Messages
3,533
Location
Chicago, IL
NNID
DLAhhh
Most Marths that I fight counterpick BF against my Ganon. Fighting Marth on this stage is a huge *****, especially getting back on the stage from the ledge. Marth just has a lot better punishing options on this stage.

Also, I don't see why so many Gans like Brinstar so much. I understand it's one of his better counterpicks, but some aspects of the stage really hurt him. The uneven ground messes with his stomps, it's risky using side B to recover, and he's probably going to eat more damage from the lava than anyone else in the game. Ganonciding into the lava may work ONCE against a good player, and it doesn't even kill a lot of characters. Sure, the lava may help his recovery, but the blast barrier is small enough that he usually doesn't even need the help, and the lava just ends up hurting him.
 

Kishin

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 2, 2008
Messages
558
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
Why is Jungle Japes considered a bad CP against DDD? The high ceiling makes U-tilt kills a lot more difficult and his recover gets a huge drop in usefulness.
 

TP

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 28, 2008
Messages
3,341
Location
St. Louis, MO
DLA is correct. Also, BF is the worst neutral to fight Snake on, not the best. His platform control is great, and if he grabs you on a platform you're pretty much ****ed.
 

smashkng

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
1,742
Location
Malmö, Sweden
NNID
Smashsk
3DS FC
0318-7423-9293
Why is Frigate Orpheon a bad stage vs Link? Doesn't it **** Link's recovery as well? He has a way worse vertical recovery. And the ftilt is **** on him there.
 

Vermanubis

King of Evil
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
3,399
Location
La Grande, Oregon
NNID
Vermanubis
3DS FC
1564-2185-4386
@DLA: Yeah, but I'm unsure whether or not to switch the rating from orange to red or not. The platforms give Marth a lot of leeway, but I'm unsure if they give him enough control to bring it to red.

As for Brinstar, I can strongly agree with you on some aspects. Brinstar is only good if the Ganon is fully aware of how to take advantage of the stage facets. But even then, it still can be horrible against certain characters. I'd say it's so good for him because it can mitigate camper's options, helps Ganon's recovery, has short blast zones, etc. So yeah, I can definitely agree it hurts him in a lot of ways. But the benefits he gains from it I'd say would make it his best overall CP, assuming Norfair is banned.

@Kishin: Japes, due to the water and elevated side-platforms, is an absolute nightmare for Ganondorf. It makes camping him ridiculously easy, he can't approach people unless they're on the center platform and of Ganon's most lucrative killing moves, dair, can't kill anymore. Dedede in particular can **** by waddle dee camping and most of his aerials have too much range to circumvent if he's on a side platform.

@Twilight: I wouldn't imagine it's the best to fight him on, no. But the reason I say it's better than FD is because Snake has less room to camp, fewer options upon landing/recovering and if he camps on the platforms, aerudo can safely grab him without detonating the grenade. I definitely acknowledge where you're coming from, as the platforms can play hell with C4s and Snake's tilts. But the benefits of BF are more than that of FD, and the detriments slightly less so. But I'm still willing to change BF's rating if you can give me a little more insight as to why BF is worse.
 

Vermanubis

King of Evil
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
3,399
Location
La Grande, Oregon
NNID
Vermanubis
3DS FC
1564-2185-4386
Why is Frigate Orpheon a bad stage vs Link? Doesn't it **** Link's recovery as well? He has a way worse vertical recovery. And the ftilt is **** on him there.
FO is a horrible stage against Link. It doesn't do any favors for his recovery, but nor does it for Ganon's. So they're even on that field. What you want to consider is how easily Link can control the stage with his projectiles. On the beginning phase of the stage, Link has that small platform to effectively camp under. But the first phase isn't the worrisome one, though it is still bad; the second one is. The second phase with the dip in the center makes Link impossible to approach. Ganon can't autocancel his moves there 90% of the time, leaving him open for punishment as well.
 

smashkng

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
1,742
Location
Malmö, Sweden
NNID
Smashsk
3DS FC
0318-7423-9293
I don't think Olimar is ungodly in Orpheon, because the turn around may kill him due his terrible recovery.
 

Vermanubis

King of Evil
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
3,399
Location
La Grande, Oregon
NNID
Vermanubis
3DS FC
1564-2185-4386
I don't think Olimar is ungodly in Orpheon, because the turn around may kill him due his terrible recovery.
That particular risk for Olimar is extremely circumstantial. FO is a common Oli CP because of how much it promotes camping. By the time the turn-around takes place, Ganon will have 2 stocks off. :p
 

@HomE

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 23, 2008
Messages
634
Location
Minnesota
I actually really like FO, probably one of my top 5 favs.. i could see why the second part of the stage (dip in the middle) could suck vs Lolimarz. but other then that i really enjoy all the parts of FO. the slanted parts make certain follow-ups out of Gerudo guaranteed... (Z1G i'm looking at you) do we get F-tilt or jab on chars we wouldn't normally get if we catch them going up the slant?
 

Lokee

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Messages
194
Location
Philadelphia, PA
We need to sticky this or at least add it to one of the large guides. Stage matchups are just as important as Character matchups
 

Z1GMA

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
5,523
Location
Sweden
I actually really like FO, probably one of my top 5 favs.. i could see why the second part of the stage (dip in the middle) could suck vs Lolimarz. but other then that i really enjoy all the parts of FO. the slanted parts make certain follow-ups out of Gerudo guaranteed... (Z1G i'm looking at you) do we get F-tilt or jab on chars we wouldn't normally get if we catch them going up the slant?
Well, Dtilt is is garantueed on all characters in Downhill-slopes (except maybe on Ganon himself, since he's the only "8-Framer"). But it works on him if it's very downhillish.

Then we have Uphill-slopes, which makes Jab Garatueed on most characters, if not all.
Jab is never garantueed on Ganon himself after a Gerudo, since it takes 8 frames for Ganon to gain control when beeing choked on flat ground.
So when you Choke Ganon in a slight uphill, he'll gain control about 1 frame earlier (7 frames). Thus your jab is 1 frame too slow.

Marth, Falco and Lucario, on the other hand, are "9 Framers". So when Choking them in a slight uphill, they'll gain control at frame 8. And your jab won't go 'over' them anylonger.

NOTE: Jab isn't garantueed if the slope is too intense, since they'll gain control even earlier.

There are a lot of coo' stuff Vs other chars, too.
For instance: Dsmash is garantueed on ROB if you Gerudo him in a intense downhill-slope.
 

TP

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 28, 2008
Messages
3,341
Location
St. Louis, MO
We need to sticky this or at least add it to one of the large guides. Stage matchups are just as important as Character matchups
I disagree with giving this a sticky or adding it to one, because I disagree with a ton of stuff on this chart. :ohwell:
 

Vermanubis

King of Evil
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
3,399
Location
La Grande, Oregon
NNID
Vermanubis
3DS FC
1564-2185-4386
I disagree with giving this a sticky or adding it to one, because I disagree with a ton of stuff on this chart. :ohwell:
Which is why I stated that the Ganon boards needed to make a group effort to perfect it. I agree that it should be stickied, simply because, as Lokee said, stage match-ups, for Ganon especially, are of paramount importance. If we can perfect this chart and gather the proper information, it could be a serious boon to many Ganon users.
 

Vermanubis

King of Evil
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
3,399
Location
La Grande, Oregon
NNID
Vermanubis
3DS FC
1564-2185-4386
I actually really like FO, probably one of my top 5 favs.. i could see why the second part of the stage (dip in the middle) could suck vs Lolimarz. but other then that i really enjoy all the parts of FO. the slanted parts make certain follow-ups out of Gerudo guaranteed... (Z1G i'm looking at you) do we get F-tilt or jab on chars we wouldn't normally get if we catch them going up the slant?
Ganon just suffers a lot on the stage in general. I personally would rather be CPed FO than most other CPs, but there are some characters that are just nightmares to face there. First phase is horrible against characters with a more dynamic camping game (Link, R.O.B., Olimar, etc.). As well, the lack of a ledge makes getting back on from the right side a pain.

Second part is in fact the worst though, as you said. The dip screws Ganon's chances at defensive playing since he can't autocancel. Second part is also even worst than the first part against dynamic campers. R.O.B. and Olimar are just notoriously outrageous there.
 

@HomE

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 23, 2008
Messages
634
Location
Minnesota
First off I want to say that I don't think the stage matters THAT much unless its very specific match-ups.. I am confident that i can pick BF or FD and do well vs all chars.. the stage doesn't mean all that much to me, its just a platform for my r@pe...
 

Vermanubis

King of Evil
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
3,399
Location
La Grande, Oregon
NNID
Vermanubis
3DS FC
1564-2185-4386
First off I want to say that I don't think the stage matters THAT much unless its very specific match-ups.. I am confident that i can pick BF or FD and do well vs all chars.. the stage doesn't mean all that much to me, its just a platform for my r@pe...
Aren't all match-ups very specific? We're talking tournaments here. I doubt a Ganondorf user is going to pass up an opportunity to maximize his chances of winning.

Any semantics aside, I do think that this should be stickied or added to a guide. It would draw more attention to it, consequently inviting more information to perfect it. None can argue that it's a very necessary fundamental knowledge. I'm eager to see it finished, and with the prospect of such, don't think any given person's envy of it being stickied should obstruct it from achieving completion.

Of course, that's not to say I'm pointing fingers. I just know that long-time SWF goers aren't going to necessarily be big on the idea on some new guy's thread being stickied. That aside though, again, the emphasis lies in completing the chart.
 

@HomE

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 23, 2008
Messages
634
Location
Minnesota
Aren't all match-ups very specific? We're talking tournaments here. I doubt a Ganondorf user is going to pass up an opportunity to maximize his chances of winning.

I lol'd...

I'll be hanging out here in reality, if you feel like coming back let me know.
 

Vermanubis

King of Evil
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
3,399
Location
La Grande, Oregon
NNID
Vermanubis
3DS FC
1564-2185-4386
I lol'd...

I'll be hanging out here in reality, if you feel like coming back let me know.
A patient with leukemia lies in bed approached by an oncologist. The oncologist tells the patient that his chances of survival are slim, however, a blood transfusion will increase his chances by 5%. Will the patient accept the transfusion, or acquiesce to his fate?
 

@HomE

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 23, 2008
Messages
634
Location
Minnesota
A patient with leukemia lies in bed approached by an oncologist. The oncologist tells the patient that his chances of survival are slim, however, a blood transfusion will increase his chances by 5%. Will the patient accept the transfusion, or acquiesce to his fate?
1)I don't think Ganon can get cancer...
2)Who has blood type Murder+ ??
3)Are you saying that if we replace Ganon's blood we can finally win a Tourny?
4)Do you have cancer?
5)Where did you get 5% from?
6)This really has nothing to do with Ganon, or his Stage Match-ups...
7)Let me see if I got this.. If we replace all Ganon's blood AND the person who is playing Ganon's blood before a tourny, we shall have exactly a 5% chance to win..?



To answer your question..

No
 

Vermanubis

King of Evil
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
3,399
Location
La Grande, Oregon
NNID
Vermanubis
3DS FC
1564-2185-4386
1)I don't think Ganon can get cancer...
2)Who has blood type Murder+ ??
3)Are you saying that if we replace Ganon's blood we can finally win a Tourny?
4)Do you have cancer?
5)Where did you get 5% from?
6)This really has nothing to do with Ganon, or his Stage Match-ups...
7)Let me see if I got this.. If we replace all Ganon's blood AND the person who is playing Ganon's blood before a tourny, we shall have exactly a 5% chance to win..?



To answer your question..

No
1)Why do you think he's so low?
2)Ganon's blood type isn't murder, rather, an ectoplasmic manifestation of malice and antifreeze.
3)No, we need to shorten his phallus. Too long.
4)I'm invincible.
5)Because that's how many fingers Ganon has on one hand.
6)Oh, but it does.
7)No. You've almost got it though. We replace all Ganon's blood and then have Ganon defecate on the player (you) and then in your ecstasy, you'll forget you just forfeit the tournament for an opportunity to have Ganondorf defecate on you.

To respond to your answer...

Yes.

ITT: @HomE tries to make a funny to demoralize me. *sadface*

As fun as that was visualizing all that, let's get back on topic. :D

Seriously though. Does anyone have any suggestions for changes to the chart? Not personal preferences, rather, some solid input. It's been a week now and we've made... next to zero progress.
 

Sovereign

Game Reaper
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
2,292
Location
Indianapolis, IN
NNID
Sovereign90
What happened to Norfair being a legal counter pick? That's a really good stage for Ganon, against quite a few people. Don't you think that stage should be added?

You should discuss more in-depth what the ratio of a match would change to, if we were to take characters to these specific stages.
 

@HomE

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 23, 2008
Messages
634
Location
Minnesota
1)Why do you think he's so low?
2)Ganon's blood type isn't murder, rather, an ectoplasmic manifestation of malice and antifreeze.
3)No, we need to shorten his phallus. Too long.
4)I'm invincible.
5)Because that's how many fingers Ganon has on one hand.
6)Oh, but it does.
7)No. You've almost got it though. We replace all Ganon's blood and then have Ganon defecate on the player (you) and then in your ecstasy, you'll forget you just forfeit the tournament for an opportunity to have Ganondorf defecate on you.

To respond to your answer...

Yes.

ITT: @HomE tries to make a funny to demoralize me. *sadface*

As fun as that was visualizing all that, let's get back on topic. :D

Seriously though. Does anyone have any suggestions for changes to the chart? Not personal preferences, rather, some solid input. It's been a week now and we've made... next to zero progress.
Demoralize.. No... I ooze sarcasm and that doesn't translate all that well over the intranets...<3

That combined with caffeine and sitting in front of a computer for 8 hrs a day(me job) will result in ..... well .. my posts...

On Topic: I honestly love BF and FD and SV vs any character... At higher levels of play i understand that you will need any advantage you can possibly get. I still think the stage is the least of Ganon's problems in 90% of his match-ups.

For the record: I'm not really into the "1 Ganon 1 Cup" type of stuff, Poo just doesn't really do it for me .. :-/
 

Vermanubis

King of Evil
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
3,399
Location
La Grande, Oregon
NNID
Vermanubis
3DS FC
1564-2185-4386
Demoralize.. No... I ooze sarcasm and that doesn't translate all that well over the intranets...<3

That combined with caffeine and sitting in front of a computer for 8 hrs a day(me job) will result in ..... well .. my posts...

On Topic: I honestly love BF and FD and SV vs any character... At higher levels of play i understand that you will need any advantage you can possibly get. I still think the stage is the least of Ganon's problems in 90% of his match-ups.

For the record: I'm not really into the "1 Ganon 1 Cup" type of stuff, Poo just doesn't really do it for me .. :-/
No worries, man, lol. I knew you weren't being a ****.

As for the stages, I agree they won't change the flow of battle to a point where Ganon NEEDS to everything about the stage. But there are a lot of stages that can mitigate impact from another character's strengths on Ganon. Falcon on Brinstar. Hard as hell to CG, spike or camp.

Some stages Ganon can take full advantage of. Others he can't. etc.
 

Vermanubis

King of Evil
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
3,399
Location
La Grande, Oregon
NNID
Vermanubis
3DS FC
1564-2185-4386
What happened to Norfair being a legal counter pick? That's a really good stage for Ganon, against quite a few people. Don't you think that stage should be added?

You should discuss more in-depth what the ratio of a match would change to, if we were to take characters to these specific stages.
I think discussing the ratio for every stage against every character would be a bit much. True, it wouldn't hurt. But the color code I feel represents the severity of the match-up well enough. Again, I do like the idea, but seeing as how we're making almost zero progress as is with a simplified system, I don't think a more advanced one would get very far. :(

As for Norfair, it VERY sadly is banned in most competitive settings now. It really is such a **** Ganon stage. He doesn't get camped, gimped or anything. But doesn't it figure that our one last hope turns out to be a haven for several top tiers. So much so that it had to be banned. :/

I personally have no problem adding Norfair in. I just don't think it'd be very practical since it's mostly banned now.
 

Clai

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 9, 2007
Messages
1,254
Location
Where men are born and champions are raised
I'd like to say that this is a very nice suggestion and I bet that, with a few details ironed out, this will be a great resource when considering matchups.

I would like to input that Final Destination is a GREAT stage when fighting Game and Watch. Without any platforms, G&W is forced to fight you using horizontal spacing, and with Ganon's good range on his aerials plus the ability to stuff his aerials with F-tilt, the spacing battle will favor Ganon a good portion of the time. Game and Watch is most dangerous when he's inside, but as long as the Ganon player can keep mind of his spacing, he can neutralize some of Game and Watch's greatest assets.
 

Sovereign

Game Reaper
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
2,292
Location
Indianapolis, IN
NNID
Sovereign90
I'd like to say that this is a very nice suggestion and I bet that, with a few details ironed out, this will be a great resource when considering matchups.

I would like to input that Final Destination is a GREAT stage when fighting Game and Watch. Without any platforms, G&W is forced to fight you using horizontal spacing, and with Ganon's good range on his aerials plus the ability to stuff his aerials with F-tilt, the spacing battle will favor Ganon a good portion of the time. Game and Watch is most dangerous when he's inside, but as long as the Ganon player can keep mind of his spacing, he can neutralize some of Game and Watch's greatest assets.
Gotta watch that bacon, though. Game and Watch's bacon is lofty enough to give him a better approaching, tool. Ganon can't really defend on both accounts, with a projectile and Game and Watch coming at the same time.

Nair is good against the bacon, though. You still have to watch your spacing.
 
Top Bottom