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Brawl doubles tips/insight from Jem!

Jem.

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Everyone needs a star player. What I mean is, the player you'll lean on to win you the set in a close tight game 5.

Some don't believe in that philosophy, but if you're playing Mew2King and a random noob in doubles, you're going to say "Alright we can't let Mew2King get off against us, we have to shut him down."

You and your teammate both need to be very aware of what all 4 players on the stage are doing at what time. You need to see if someone uses a laggy move that you can torch, or if your teammate needs to be saved from one he did by going for a huge gimp or something.

You don't necessarily need to warm-up, contrary what most people believe. All of my teammates I don't even warmup with in doubles friendlies usually and we continue to win, it's not that you need to "build" chemistry. Usually its a natural chemistry. You can't force chemistry. An example for me would be, no offense you two, but when Weruop and Chip teamed. When I played them I felt they had no chemistry.

Your teammates life is more important than killing your opponent. I stole that from Isai when he teamed with Captain Jack years ago. In a theortical situation, you want to save your teammate if the kill and teammate are whats at stake at that very situation. And you never know, sometimes saving your team can lead to a kill. (More often than not. When someone is determined to edgeguard, they aren't often watching their back for the help. a simple ftilt/laser/projectile/grab/anything will save your teammate. If they chase, you chase back, it becomes a 2v1 in the air."

There comes a point when you know you need your teammate to steal a stock. This even applies to me. If you're at 2 stocks high percent, and both your opponents are at 1 stock low-moderate percent, your teammate STILL needs to steal it. A 2v2 is much better than a 1v2, you have to stop 2 players from approaching, and each air dodge/spot dodge/risk you take has a 2x chance to be punished because there is no one else to focus on. At that point, you need your teammate to steal your stock and safely approach, and you just projectile spam/wait for your openings to hit and run.

^ the best example of that would be in winners finals me + sagemoon vs Nerd and Felix. I was at last stock 120% or so, Sagemoon was at 2 stocks 100%, and Nerd and Felix were both around last stock 40%. At this point I basically suicided my stock and dealt as much damage as I could, because if they kill me and Sagemoon at the same time, its a forced 1v2. He camped while I used this new fresh stock carefully and we won the match. We both knew what I had to do to, we said it quietly at the same time as I just rushed to lose my stock so I can be assured to take his.

You need to seize on opportunities. I see a lot of missed gimps in doubles. A lot of gimps are available in doubles. Some people just aren't that aware, and if they aren't, punish them on that. Don't get desperate for the kill move, you'll get punished for 50+% if you do. Feel it out, don't just start throwing smashes randomely hoping they hit.

KEEP YOUR OPPONENTS IN THE AIR!!! stage control is vital throughout a whole doubles match. If you can't center yourself on the stage, unless youre going clutch I don't see you winning. Always center yourself with the stage when you can, it usually means you have one opponent one side and one on the other, and you can choose who to pick on.

YOU NEED TO TRUST YOUR TEAMMATES! I've seen a lot of pro players opt to not let their teammate steal their stock because they had played badly that game. You can't do that to your teammate. 99% of the time the person who keeps their stock greedily doesn't win. I've seen DSF and several other pros do this at tournaments. You've got to trust that they'll bring it back. When your Star QB has thrown 4 ints in a playoff game, you don't bench him, you know he'll bring it back.

I'll add more later, that's all i got for now. If you like it let me know and i'll continue. thanks!
 

Gadiel_VaStar

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This sounds accurate. I've had that last step happen to me before, "Teamate not trusting me." It was on wifi, but he CLEARLY killed me on purpose to get me out of the way. I will never team w/ that player again, and it goes to show that you had better know your teamate's history in doubles.
 

Kewkky

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I can't think of a single reason as to why you would want to suicide your own stock... That's extra damage you can deal, and if you die, your ally can just camp a ledge until you return and get them off of him.

I guess that depends on the player, though. Overall, yeah, pretty much very important stuff I actually keep in mind almost all the time, which makes me feel special. :F
 

Jem.

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Marysville, Washington
I can't think of a single reason as to why you would want to suicide your own stock... That's extra damage you can deal, and if you die, your ally can just camp a ledge until you return and get them off of him.

I guess that depends on the player, though. Overall, yeah, pretty much very important stuff I actually keep in mind almost all the time, which makes me feel special. :F
Because my partner and I both knew I wouldn't waste his fresh stock. If they kill me, they get around 7 seconds (even more if i die off the ceiling) to kill my teammate, and if he's in a 1v2 with them at pretty low percents, chances are you'll lose that battle. I did as much damage as I could, then stole his stock because im metaknight. We knew regardless of my partner high percent, because he was pit, that he could just shoot arrows and run while i fend both of them off, and it worked.
 

Kewkky

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Because my partner and I both knew I wouldn't waste his fresh stock. If they kill me, they get around 7 seconds (even more if i die off the ceiling) to kill my teammate, and if he's in a 1v2 with them at pretty low percents, chances are you'll lose that battle. I did as much damage as I could, then stole his stock because im metaknight.
I wanna make a crappy joke, but I'll hold myself... It's not insulting, so don't worry. :p

I dunno... 7 seconds if you die, and more off the top? I don't remember Brawl deaths taking this long. Maybe 4-5 seconds before you're able to move again, and that's not enough time for your opponents to get to your ally and kill him, even more so if you ally is playing the "don't get hit" card instead of trying to damage them.
 

Jem.

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I wanna make a crappy joke, but I'll hold myself... It's not insulting, so don't worry. :p

I dunno... 7 seconds if you die, and more off the top? I don't remember Brawl deaths taking this long. Maybe 4-5 seconds before you're able to move again, and that's not enough time for your opponents to get to your ally and kill him, even more so if you ally is playing the "don't get hit" card instead of trying to damage them.
Let me re-word it, I was tired at first.

My teammate was pit with 2 stocks incredibly high percent, i was last stock high percent. I rushed in while he just planked so I could steal his stock so I can deal as much damage as I can. And at that time, I died off the ceiling. So as I shot up, thats about 1 second to reach the ceiling, the 2 more dying in the background. As they upsmash me knowing I died, they rush my pit teammate on the ledge, who is incredibly vulnerable while off the stage, but is now forced off it. So I have a second wait to get back after the death to steal stock, another second to get off the platform, and 1-3 seconds to try and help him. If they kill him in this time, I'm in a 1v2 unfavorable situation. If they kill him then me, I can't steal his stock, and MK > Pit in 1v2. MK > everyone in 1v2 basically. And we won the match, so I'd say its a good strategy. Sometimes you have to give a little to get a little, and it worked to plan.
 

Kewkky

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Let me re-word it, I was tired at first.

My teammate was pit with 2 stocks incredibly high percent, i was last stock high percent. I rushed in while he just planked so I could steal his stock so I can deal as much damage as I can. And at that time, I died off the ceiling. So as I shot up, thats about 1 second to reach the ceiling, the 2 more dying in the background. As they upsmash me knowing I died, they rush my pit teammate on the ledge, who is incredibly vulnerable while off the stage, but is now forced off it. So I have a second wait to get back after the death to steal stock, another second to get off the platform, and 1-3 seconds to try and help him. If they kill him in this time, I'm in a 1v2 unfavorable situation. If they kill him then me, I can't steal his stock, and MK > Pit in 1v2. MK > everyone in 1v2 basically. And we won the match, so I'd say its a good strategy. Sometimes you have to give a little to get a little, and it worked to plan.
Well, yeah, I guess. But that's assuming the worst case scenario. Your approach is definitely smarter than what I'd probably do, I admit. But, just because I'm me, I'd probably just jump in the fray anyway and try to tank till 200%. :D
 

Jem.

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Well, yeah, I guess. But that's assuming the worst case scenario. Your approach is definitely smarter than what I'd probably do, I admit. But, just because I'm me, I'd probably just jump in the fray anyway and try to tank till 200%. :D
I'm a realistic person. Playin' the statistics :)
 

**Havok**

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Bump.

On situations of 3 stocks left, 1 fresh, the other person having 2 at high percent:

I've thought about this a lot lately, it's almost better just to suicide because the person with the high percent is playing a defensive game trying to avoid dying while the person with a fresh stock is defending his partner and playing somewhat normal.

It doesnt hit you until you lose the stock (high percent one), come back, then you find yourself in that same defensive posture defending your partner from dying. Or he might die leaving you all alone.

However...

Let's say you do kill yourself. Come back and fight alongside your partner normally without playing with such a defensive posture.

I suppose you give up the ability to do something with the remaining X amount of time with the high percent stock. But think about it. Living up to %200 on that used up stock isn't worth it since you're out there recovering, wasting frames, planking, in the air, wasting time not even playing! your partner ends up taking dmg he wouldnt otherwise if you were there.

Just a thought.
 

SnackAttack

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This is actually a very good read.

My now permanent partner and I first teamed at Pound, and we wanna team again.

I had never really liked doubles at first due to the fact that I would always feel like I would fail my partner and just lack of chemistry.

But now I do, and this is very helpful; so thanks Jem.
 

Jem.

Smash Master
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Sep 9, 2006
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Bump.

On situations of 3 stocks left, 1 fresh, the other person having 2 at high percent:

I've thought about this a lot lately, it's almost better just to suicide because the person with the high percent is playing a defensive game trying to avoid dying while the person with a fresh stock is defending his partner and playing somewhat normal.

It doesnt hit you until you lose the stock (high percent one), come back, then you find yourself in that same defensive posture defending your partner from dying. Or he might die leaving you all alone.

However...

Let's say you do kill yourself. Come back and fight alongside your partner normally without playing with such a defensive posture.

I suppose you give up the ability to do something with the remaining X amount of time with the high percent stock. But think about it. Living up to %200 on that used up stock isn't worth it since you're out there recovering, wasting frames, planking, in the air, wasting time not even playing! your partner ends up taking dmg he wouldnt otherwise if you were there.

Just a thought.
I like your thinking Havok. Thats why Mew2King told me you're the best doubles partner on the WC :).

And Snack Attack - no problem! trying to help out everyone.
 

Jem.

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Sorry. I wear Gunnar Optiks so the blue doesn't hurt me hahaha

jk im not wearing my gunnars at the computer much.. but even without it, it isn't hurting my eyes. I'm sorry :(

and thank you pat.

I might retouch this after this weekend, especially if Weruop and I find a way to beat M2K + Larry. Either way I'll try to retouch this.
 
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