Am I the only marth that uses tap jump off???

I know that marth with tap jump on is practical because of his dolphin slash, but having it off really helps you use more of marth's great tilts and less of his dolphin slash habbits. Getting used to having it off and pulling the dolphin slash OOS without it on, really makes your marth better cause your eliminating your bad habbit that "Oh i'm in a shield and dolphin slash punishes everything ordeal". Well this is just my opinion about having tap jump off and having it on...

I know i'm random about this but it just crossed my mind about how many marth mains use tap jump on and off... am I the only one that uses tap jump off while using marth? hmm?

I have it off too, I just can't stand it >.<

I wouldnt say having tap jump on hurts the use of tilts, since i havent messed up an up tilt in forever and i play with tap jump on. I don't see much of a connection between habits and tap jump either... but i do know what your getting at. But either way you can still DS oos with or without tap jump on one requires a bit more button work to do it over the other though.

Marth has a plethora of oos options to punish with including DS, DB up air, up smash (good against falling robs nair.) etc. (i like up air against a TL's dair pogo motion.)

tap jump on is just practical to me and it doesnt complicate things.

the only thing tap jump affects really is DS OoS's easibility

i can play with it on or off, so if i'm waiting for someone i'll turn it off, if not i just make/pick a tag... lol

You don't lose anything with tap jump on. Most people seem to complain about U-tilt, but it's the same for D-tilt anyway. Your tilts are not restricted in any way by tap jump.

Trying to DS OoS everything is a bad mental habit which can be fixed with a little bit awareness. I've heard of removing/changing the shield buttons to get rid of rolling habits, but a little awareness can kill that habit too. More than likely, you'll just get punished out of your bad habits anyway.

I suppose you can set whichever shield button you don't use to jump (I think that's how it's done), but even with my below-average motor skills I still don't jump instead of U-tilt. (Not to say there's anything wrong with this approach at all, I just prefer default)

Rad said:

I suppose you can set whichever shield button you don't use to jump (I think that's how it's done), but even with my below-average motor skills I still don't jump instead of U-tilt. (Not to say there's anything wrong with this approach at all, I just prefer default)

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This solution has worked well enough for me. Can UB just fine out of multihits like tornado etc.

So yeah it's a personal preference; I hate when I accidently jump when I'm trying to DI something but some, melee players for example, have the training not to do that.

Still, I figure in the heat of the moment it would be easy to get overzealous hitting up for something and do a punishable jump. But what do I know? 8D

The only thing tap jump off could possibly **** me on is full hop U-airing. Everything else is so easy with practice that it's not even worth it at the least bit.

I play melee more then brawl, so tap jump off would confuse the heck out of me, i'm already cool with utilt, so not an issue, so I'm tap jump on forever (except when playing yoshi).

Tap Jump off has benefits and they outweigh the losses IMO:
Consider Tap Jump on:
- Easier time with OoS options of upB and u-smash
- Will automatically use your second jump if you haven't used it yet while in the air if you uair or upB. The amount of finger control involved to avoid this is very high and if you can do it more power to you, but I just use c-stick for uair.
-Helps with simultaneous inputs for aerials ie. Ganondorf's Thunder stomping relies on tap jump+c-stick or claw control grip for the easiest input methods.

Tap jump off:
- A little bit more difficult to input the OoS options which is not that bad.
-Conserves your second jump for upward aerial inputs, which is critical for Marth IMO. This way you can aim for the edge with DS, and say you get hit out of it. You won't be totally screwed b/c you did not use up your second jump, so you have a higher chance to survive.
-Easier u-tilt, which is a non-issue for some.
-Better SDI, the problem I find with SDI'ing moves such as tornado which require me to go up, is sometimes with tap jump on, it will automatically make me second jump the first frame I am free only to get caught in another part of the tornado, and being put into a worse juggling situation when nado finishes b/c I lost my second jump.

I personally use tap jump off, because to me it helps more. Anyway I probably missed a couple of points but hopefully you can consider benefits of tap jump off on a character such a Marth that you may have never considered. Renegade you aren't the only one

It seems more like your list is based on personal preference/individual case scenarios.

-Cross- said:

Tap Jump off has benefits and they outweigh the losses IMO:
Consider Tap Jump on:
- Easier time with OoS options of upB and u-smash
- Will automatically use your second jump if you haven't used it yet while in the air if you uair or upB. The amount of finger control involved to avoid this is very high and if you can do it more power to you, but I just use c-stick for uair.
-Helps with simultaneous inputs for aerials ie. Ganondorf's Thunder stomping relies on tap jump+c-stick or claw control grip for the easiest input methods.

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- Yes.
- If you you're uairing, you can use the c-stick (like you said). If that's not a preference, I can see where tap jump becomes a problem. However there's a good chance you're going for frame traps and want to use your double-jump or FFUair (requiring the c-stick).
- Yes.

Tap jump off:
- A little bit more difficult to input the OoS options which is not that bad.
-Conserves your second jump for upward aerial inputs, which is critical for Marth IMO. This way you can aim for the edge with DS, and say you get hit out of it. You won't be totally screwed b/c you did not use up your second jump, so you have a higher chance to survive.
-Easier u-tilt, which is a non-issue for some.
-Better SDI, the problem I find with SDI'ing moves such as tornado which require me to go up, is sometimes with tap jump on, it will automatically make me second jump the first frame I am free only to get caught in another part of the tornado, and being put into a worse juggling situation when nado finishes b/c I lost my second jump.

I personally use tap jump off, because to me it helps more. Anyway I probably missed a couple of points but hopefully you can consider benefits of tap jump off on a character such a Marth that you may have never considered. Renegade you aren't the only one

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- The main issue isn't exactly the input of DS and Usmash, it's about your invulnerability when you use DS out of shield. With tap jump on, you shield and Up B. That's a transition from your shield straight into invincibility frames. With it off, you have to drop your shield before you do anything, which leaves a small window of being punished. I believe Shaya mentioned this once.
- Does it keep your second jump if you get hit out of DS? I'd assume that since you've used your third jump, your mid-air jump is forfeit regardless of whether or not you've used it. I've never seen this as a problem, as DS should be used low enough to snap to the edge without being punished, or land on the stage if it's being hogged, in which case, your mid air jump is refreshed.
- Yes, but someone mentioned, that it's just in the same boat as d tilt if you had tap jump on.
- I wouldn't call that "better" SDI. It's just a matter of paying attention and developing your reaction time. Even if you SDI out of Tornado with tap jump off, you'd have to pay attention to when you actually do get out so that you don't fall back in. I'd say that using your second jump is almost a confirmation that you're out and you can counter/head to safety/DS depending on the position you're in.


Tbh, the only real advantage I see in having tap jump off is angling your shield up towards tornado, and I believe if MK is that high above your head you can just crouch, so even then, I don't know.

Umby said:

- The main issue isn't exactly the input of DS and Usmash, it's about your invulnerability when you use DS out of shield. With tap jump on, you shield and Up B. That's a transition from your shield straight into invincibility frames. With it off, you have to drop your shield before you do anything, which leaves a small window of being punished. I believe Shaya mentioned this once.
- Does it keep your second jump if you get hit out of DS? I'd assume that since you've used your third jump, your mid-air jump is forfeit regardless of whether or not you've used it. I've never seen this as a problem, as DS should be used low enough to snap to the edge without being punished, or land on the stage if it's being hogged, in which case, your mid air jump is refreshed.
- Yes, but someone mentioned, that it's just in the same boat as d tilt if you had tap jump on.
- I wouldn't call that "better" SDI. It's just a matter of paying attention and developing your reaction time. Even if you SDI out of Tornado with tap jump off, you'd have to pay attention to when you actually do get out so that you don't fall back in. I'd say that using your second jump is almost a confirmation that you're out and you can counter/head to safety/DS depending on the position you're in.


Tbh, the only real advantage I see in having tap jump off is angling your shield up towards tornado, and I believe if MK is that high above your head you can just crouch, so even then, I don't know.

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1: If press jump and DS at the same time, it is the exact same thing as just DS'ing OoS with tap jump on. Same number of invincibility frames, just requires faster/simultaneous input of jump and upB. I claw so it doesn't matter

2: If you do not spend your second jump before you DS, then you can still second jump [in the case that you are hit out. This is a very small point, many people do not try to hit Marth out of his DS. But it is still possible, and tap jump off is my precaution against this. Also conserving your second jump helps with momentum canceling, so say you were put into a situation while recovering where you tried to hit the opponent with early DS to stop their edge guarding. But they avoid it, and hit you with a kill move. You would have a higher chance of surviving with tap jump then without.

3: Yeah I was just trying to include as many advantages as I could, for a summary list.

4: IMO it is safer SDI and thus better SDI. Getting your second jump off is not a confirmation that you are safe. You are vulnerable throughout the whole thing and getting caught in the initial frames of your second jump, (quick as it is) is still a very likely possibility depending on the move. Since Marth is a character that gets screwed if he loses a second jump, I just rather be able to SDI like crazy and not lose my second jump while doing it.

5: Oh yeah and the angle the shield thing is one I forgot. But the ability to angle your shield is essential. Even if you crouch, MK's can still start off low and then ascend once they hit your shield, so I would like to be able to angle up in that case.

I would like to say that when I started out I used tap jump on, and I thought it was the best way. But my opinions have obviously changed. I would recommend people to try it out a bit if they never did have tap jump off before

-Cross- said:

Tap Jump off has benefits and they outweigh the losses IMO:
Consider Tap Jump on:
- Easier time with OoS options of upB and u-smash

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I dont feel they outweigh the losses...
But yes, easier time to up b oos and up smash.

- Will automatically use your second jump if you haven't used it yet while in the air if you uair or upB. The amount of finger control involved to avoid this is very high and if you can do it more power to you, but I just use c-stick for uair.

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What? no...

-Helps with simultaneous inputs for aerials ie. Ganondorf's Thunder stomping relies on tap jump+c-stick or claw control grip for the easiest input methods.

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It also is the only way I can get close to dairing MK out of an aerial grab release.

Tap jump off:
- A little bit more difficult to input the OoS options which is not that bad.

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True

-Conserves your second jump for upward aerial inputs, which is critical for Marth IMO. This way you can aim for the edge with DS, and say you get hit out of it. You won't be totally screwed b/c you did not use up your second jump, so you have a higher chance to survive.

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This is completely false. Wtf. I dont use my jump when I dolphin slash, uair, or anything...

-Easier u-tilt, which is a non-issue for some.

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If it is an issue for you, I can see why you cant uair or dolphin slash without jumping first..

-Better SDI, the problem I find with SDI'ing moves such as tornado which require me to go up, is sometimes with tap jump on, it will automatically make me second jump the first frame I am free only to get caught in another part of the tornado, and being put into a worse juggling situation when nado finishes b/c I lost my second jump.

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This is actually a good point, and it does occur on occasion with SOME moves. However automaticly jumping through SDI actually GETS YOU OUT of a lot of things. And SDIng up (i.e. half circle or quarter circle motions) dont have me jumping instantly either... Because you are STILL GOING TO BE IN HIT STUN AFTER BEING HIT BY MOST MOVES; enough time to NOT buffer a jump (which if you were doing qcdi wont happen as the up input was already read and will be ignored until the stick is returned to perfect neutral).

I personally use tap jump off, because to me it helps more. Anyway I probably missed a couple of points but hopefully you can consider benefits of tap jump off on a character such a Marth that you may have never considered. Renegade you aren't the only one

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Its a matter of choice, but you obviously are doing a lot of things wrong and assume things that are wrong as well.

it's just preference o_O

cross, are you the same marth main I played at a vc a while back? :O

Whoever said you can Thunderstorm easier with tap on, I hit jump and slide my finger to down+A to Thunderstorm and it works well for me, with tap off

It's just preference really. I don't even use a tag in friendlies a lot of the time unless I know I'm gonna be sitting at a TV a while. Sometimes I **** up and double jump with the stick on accident, but that's my own fault when I get nervous.

Tap jump on really has nothing bad about it considering you shouldn't be messing utilt up anyways, so what does it hurt? It only helps imo

i like tap jump, helps with Dolphin Slash (which is nice, a lot of Meta Knights/G&Ws in my region) and allows me to do a fair/uair/first hit nair after a sh bair. i haven't screwed up an utilt since the game first came out, and it barely affects my SDI.

keep the tap jump on unless you play a agro marth then i gess turn it off but marth is more of a Defensive char IMO

Shaya said:

Its a matter of choice, but you obviously are doing a lot of things wrong and assume things that are wrong as well.

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That or you just think it's not worth reading all my posts. Let me clear a few things up.
1. I can do utilt just fine with or without tap jump. I have decent finger control.
2. I claw, so the advantages it gives me are more important, because our problems would be different. Ex) I do not need tap jump for dair MK out of grab release.
3. I use c-stick so I do not bother worry about using a jump as I uair, but it requires simultaneous input with up and A. If you press up too early, you will jump before you uair, again like I said if you do it more power to you, but I'll just use that yellow stick.
4. Now about using your second jump when you upB in midair. I found a video just for you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LhkXMBvjnk
M2k shuttle loops 6 times in midair. All six times he used his second jump (2:02, 2:52, 3:16, 4:13, 4:18, 4:34) as shown by how MK's shuttle loop started a bit higher than where he was when he inputted it. Clearly upB has a stricter timing to not use your second jump. Again it is a matter of timing but I'm not going to bother learning it when I can just turn tap jump off. And if you can do it cool, you're obviously better than m2k
5. Now regarding the SDI point, I actually TDI by habit, instead of qcdi. It's something I have to fix, but right now I am covering up with tap jump off.

It's not like I'm making false assumptions, tap jump off is based purely on my own experiences. I am fixing my own mistakes, and I have my own solutions that may not be conventional, doesn't mean I'm stupid though.

@punishment divine you're right tap jump on does not really hurt. The situations I mentioned occur only a few times throughout the match. Having tap jump on/off is one very minor point that fluctuates in importance on your control scheme.

@MintyFlesh
Yes I am, I'm surprise you remember. I would love to john about that first game, I can't really for the second game, but I would still do it XP MM when we play next time?

Oh god, why pick a video where I was right there. Coincidink.

Either way, the first two points M2K was already in the air... I saw no halo of a jump.
The third time, Ill give you a bit of an idea of why...
Maybe because grounded shuttle loop doesnt GIMP characters...
I saw the fourth time as well... Im not exactly seeing how hes using mid air jumps here... hes doing mid air shuttle loops...

adumbrodeus said:

I play melee more then brawl, so tap jump on would confuse the heck out of me, i'm already cool with utilt, so not an issue, so I'm tap jump off forever (except when playing yoshi).

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um isn't there tap jump on in Melee?

Sephiroths Masamune said:

um isn't there tap jump on in Melee?

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*facepalm*


I meant "off". I don't remember being drunk when I wrote that....


So I dunno how I reversed the on and the off, but whatever.


*edits*

It's ok bro no worries.

Back on track I use tap jump off while playing brawl, I guess it's because I treat them like two different games.

@ Shaya
Part of your post was just blatantly ignorant. For one, you do not see any halos when MK jumps midair. Also you do not need to see the halo, for there to have been a second jump. If you do frame perfect simultaneous input of a midair jump and an aerial you will not see a halo. Pick Marth do a FH dair, then buffer midair jump and dair at the same time. No halo if done properly. Also the point is not why he shuttle loops, the point is that whenever he midair shuttle loops he used a jump in the process.

That's why for MK you can only tell by the fact that he ascends and then the hitbox comes out. Test it out, have a controller setting for tap jump on and one for off. With the tap jump on, jump once then as you fall close to the ground shuttle loop. The hitbox of the shuttle loop will start higher (unless you did you timed it perfectly) than the point at which you inputted the command. Do it in slow-mo if you want to see it better. Then do the same with tap jump off and shuttle loop at the same point, you will not ascend at all, and the shuttle loop hitbox will start off lower than with tap jump on. It will be very obvious to see though.

I concede a bit on the using your jump on up b. Took a moment to see that it requires more precise than usual (at least more so than aerials) to not lose your jump. Its still very possible to not use your jump from up bing though.

Its still not very important for MK to be wasting jumps when he up bs though, not always but in general.

I can do utilt with 100% precision, so i use tap jump on...

I use TJ off, just easier for me. The short time I played Melee I got frustrated with TJ. Also helps my DI and stuff. Just personal preference.

i use it off cause i always lose my second jump somehow if its on

Edit: Disregard

fml =D

i play it off tambien

I play it off. My X button is my special button (B) so I just slide my thumb from Y to X to do Dolphin Slash OoS. I do the same for Up Smash OoS. It really doesn't hurt me.

you say it like jumping with up-b is the bane of tap jump's existence. it's not very to time once you know how. I'd mess it up maybe 2/100 opposed to screwing up up-b OoS with tap off probably 10/100 times. or wasting countless hours trying to lrn2claw. Tap jump also helps with aerial movement for me. I only turn it off for characters i like to boost smash with and yoshi.

You guys do remember that Tap Jump is the best way to meteor cancel due to no "early penalty" that any jump button will give you if you try to meteor cancel with them early, right? <<

Also, it is entirely possible, and heck I'd almost bet money on the fact that it wasn't really so much of a forced jump when he wants to up B so much as Mew2King really just doesn't care. I mean, he is using Meta Knight. He can waste all the jumps he wants and he'll still make it back, which I'm guessing is his logic. :\

I play with my Tap jump off, I hate tap jump on in brawl. the buffering system could made mess an buffered uptilt ( in the case that I am using DDD) so I play it tap off, I 2nd DDD and Marth. my main is up there in my name XD

The main message to take away from this thread is, no you're not alone.