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Wario's Week 27 Matchup Discussion: Bowser!

Padô

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 2, 2007
Messages
1,562
Location
São Paulo, Brazil
Well................

This week:

Bowser

Again, don't come here saying: "9999999-0,1 Wario BECOZ OF CGZOR" argue like a man.

Good discussion.
 

SnackAttack

Smash Champion
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Badkid Land
70-30

Don't get grabbed.

Fire is good for edgeguarding.


We can combo him to hell and back, we can CG him.


He has amazing KO power, but is mad slow.


We have to work a little harder to KO him.

So...yeah.
 

AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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almostlegendary
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70-30

Don't get grabbed.

Fire is good for edgeguarding.


We can combo him to hell and back, we can CG him.


He has amazing KO power, but is mad slow.


We have to work a little harder to KO him.

So...yeah.
That's is a common misconception bowser is no where near slow. Their may be lag on his attacks but that's about it.
 

Humpy Thrashabout

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
294
I'm so confused about the klaw.

Can it beat bite? Does it need to be spaced if it does? What do you do about retreating klaw hops? If you get klawed when do you DI? What does damage have to do with who gets priority with the DI?

I've never had a problem winning this matchup, but I just don't really get that move.

Somewhere around 65-35, 70-30.
 

PhantomX

WarioMan
BRoomer
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Aerial Klaw beats all our moves once the hitbox is out... thankfully it's pretty slow to come out, so I find that I am able to poke it to death with fairs. It's still really annoying though.
 

Alfa

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 5, 2009
Messages
197
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Victoria, Australia
Random facts:

* Bowser has a standing ground release infinite on wario, and an air release (probably standing) infinite on Wario, which he can finish in just about any way.
* Bowser's UpB has invincibility on frames 1-5, and hits on frame 6.
* Bowser's Fsmash/Klaw is disjointed (like an extra wario in front of horns/claws at the end) and Fsmash hits you on the ledge.
* Jab cancled grounded DownB is a guaranteed shield break if all hits connect on shield.
* Bowser is the heaviest charcter in the game. (Amazing Ampharos posted this somewhre in a big list of data he took out of brawl, but I got a new computer and lost my massive list of favorites (hundreds of favorites) so I can't find it anymore)

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7931918&postcount=203
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=193617

Basically, this is the same as most of Bowser's matchups, the opponent has the advantage due to being a better charcter in general, but Bowser still has enough gay stuff/defensive options going for him to give him some sort of chance. The matchup is probably around 60-40 Wario without the chaingrab, but with it, probably closer to 65-35 (verging on 70-30).

A better summary might come later if I can be bothered.

Edit: Oh, and fire is a terrible idea against Wario, he'll just fly through it and punish Bowser.

Also, I use both Wario and Bowser, so I have at least some idea of this.
 

Padô

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 2, 2007
Messages
1,562
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São Paulo, Brazil
So I like playing this matchup...

Dair comboes with everything we have on our arsenal to build a great % in just a few seconds. It's really easy to juggle Bowsers in the air because of his poor aerial mobility.
Fart is our first and best kill option here, you can fart on every little lag on his moves so start looking for those openings.
Be carefull and land on his back everytime you do an aerial to don't get grabbed, otherwise you getting 34% from FSmash or dieing at 100% for his UpTilt/FSmash/USmash, if he misses the grab just do anything you want and rack a lot of damage.

Another point to watch out it's his Uair, CAREFUL WITH THIS, It's got a lot of startup lag and KILLS REALLY SOON.

Fortunately we got CG and we can rack damage a lot safer, if you miss the CG you getting UpB'd but that not a big deal you, good warios, should know how to CG well...

Overall: 65:35 Wario.
 

MrEh

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
6,652
Location
Honolulu, HI
Nope, it's pretty real. Air Klaw has some ******** range.
This.

Aerial Klaw is really dumb. Beats everything. Just grab him and chaingrab him. gg


Bowsers in the air because of his poor aerial mobility.
Bowser's actually pretty quick in the air, but compared to Wario, he might as well be slow.


Bowser is the heaviest charcter in the game.
Bowser is the heaviest, but that doesn't mean he has the greatest survivability. He has the highest survivability horizontally, but he dies vertically easier then Dedede or (gasp) Link.


Grab release to Bowser Bomb
99:1 Bowser
I remember doing a Grab Release Footstool Bowser Bomb on Phantom X last year. He then proceeded to eat me alive.
 

Dynomite

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Well..

Dthrow chain: when i have done this (i might have messed up but) bowser is able to get out with Bup, but you can bite them if they try to do that. This is kinda weird. when i dthrew and bite but the bowser didnt do anything at all my bite missed, BUT if the bowser did anything at all when my bite was out my bite ate him, including shield.

Fair Dair nair are all good.
Up air juggles good. If they airdodge i dont think they have anything fast enough to hit you so just dair or something.

Grab release: Wario air breaks.
fsmash, up smash, up tilt, ftilt (tilted up) fair, bair, nair, dair, Bup, CLAWWW

dont get grabbed: besides from the obvious grab release, bowser can regrab you many many times for easy damage.

This matchup is in our favor but bowser shouldnt be taken lightly. Bowser can kill easy and if you fall behind and start charging you are in trouble bowser does like 15 damage per hit. and kills easily with one grab > up smash at like 90


Ban: halaberd, FD
Counter: Rainbow, frigate (take advantage of the right side of the flat part) nothing else really comes to mind for a great advantage.


Overall: 60:40.... an average wario has a solid chance against ANY bowser.

DONT GET GRABBED BOWSER CAN TECHNICALLY 0-DEATH YOU!!!!!
 

The W

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 8, 2010
Messages
21
So basically the matchup is don't get grabbed from either party? Funny stuff. One thing I find about this matchup is that with port priority, Bite shuts down a LOT of Bowser's moves.
 

Humpy Thrashabout

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
294
Port priority effects the bite (or grabs in general)? I thought port prior only affected who takes knockback during grabs from other things (explosives and partners in dubs).

That actually doesn't sound accurate at all.
 

PhantomX

WarioMan
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The higher port player (meaning 4 > 3 > 2 > 1) takes knockback, the lower port player has grab priority for grabs that land at the same time (both have to be in range)
 

Kit Cal-N

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So basically the matchup is don't get grabbed from either party? Funny stuff. One thing I find about this matchup is that with port priority, Bite shuts down a LOT of Bowser's moves.
Port priority doesn't matter for special grabs. They have their own priority compared to each other.

It's like,
Koopa Klaw > Bite > Kirby's Inhale > Dedede's Inhale

I'm pretty sure, at least.
 

The W

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 8, 2010
Messages
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Port priority doesn't matter for special grabs. They have their own priority compared to each other.

It's like,
Koopa Klaw > Bite > Kirby's Inhale > Dedede's Inhale

I'm pretty sure, at least.
Hmm, I kinda thought that was the case. Well then, forget port priority, bite still is not a bad option against most of Bowser's moves.
 

Gichan

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I still a bit confused with what you said PX, so like if I'm against snake I should have port 4 so that he takes the knockback from anything outside the grab (like a nade). But if I am against ICs or DDD I should go for port 1?
 

PhantomX

WarioMan
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Yeah, that about sums it up, Gi. Anyone that likes to use grab + explosive setups, grab 4th port, anyone else, lower port. In teams it's always best to have port 4.
 

Dynomite

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Yeah, that about sums it up, Gi. Anyone that likes to use grab + explosive setups, grab 4th port, anyone else, lower port. In teams it's always best to have port 4.
in teams it gets interesting. you would want your partner to have 4th slot so if he grabs and you dont have time to do a spaced fart you can fart and it will mostly hit the other person, dont get me wrong fart is super OP so it might hit your partner.
 

PhantomX

WarioMan
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Actually, depends who your partner is. If you have a GW or a Snake or something, it's better for you to get 4th port so you can set up their smashes and such with bites and grabs in case they can't space adequately.
 

Dynomite

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Actually, depends who your partner is. If you have a GW or a Snake or something, it's better for you to get 4th port so you can set up their smashes and such with bites and grabs in case they can't space adequately.
that is true. dont get me wrong dont always give up 4th slot. i am just saying that it gets really creative and interesting when it comes down to teams. if you take 4th your partner might be in danger, and vis-versa.
 
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