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How to encourage people to continue to play smash 64

Blue Yoshi

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Messages
4,410
Location
Jake is definitely dropping Yoshi
Have you ever played a game against someone really good where you lose all the time, often unable to do anything in response? This is often because you are new at the game, or there is a significant skill gap between the two players. Often, this results in the losing party to no longer want to play the game. This applies to video games, sports, anything.

Speaking from personal experience (put in quotes)

I was a complete noob at 2d fighters, having never played one before, when someone brought blazblue to one of our smashfest. Being a new game, with people wanting to show their skills, the first few people I played completely destroyed me, where I was unable to do anything (or had no knowledge of how to escape what they were doing). Having had that happen a few times, I no longer wanted to play that game, and went back to smash.
So that said, getting destroyed at a game, while feeling incapable of doing anything to defend against it, makes the game really boring. How does this relate to smash 64? Well... consider that every character has easy 0-death combos on new people who don't tech (for example), it is quite easy to be playing against someone new such that they get this feeling. Once someone realizes that they can't do anything at the game, they will no longer want to play it, as... well, what's the point if you get jv 6-stocked every match (with the occasional hit every three matches).

So, how do we solve this? How do we convince people obviously much worse than us to continue playing the game? That it is actually fun? Well, going back to my story:

Another day, at a friend's place, everyone wanted to play blazblue. Not wanting to be the only one not taking part, I decided to give the game another go. This time, as there were much fewer of us there, and everyone there has seen the game before, when I played, they went easier. They played down to my level (or let me get a few hits to start combos), even played characters they never used... even threw matches. I knew what they were doing, but the effects were obvious nonetheless: I began enjoying the game. The more I played it that night, the better I got, and the harder they played against me. Now, even though I will likely come in last place in a blazblue tournament, I enjoy the game enough that I will join in and take a shot anyways.
So... the solution in this case was simple: play easier against your opponent. This seems too self-explanatory, but is actually quite effective. So next time you're up 5 stocks to 3, and you think you could possibly end the game with a 5-stock if you tried your hardest, maybe instead play down a bit, and make the match a 3 or 2-stock instead. Maybe if they hit you, instead of DI-ing to get out of the combo, maybe DI to help their combo... like to make their next move much easier to do, or to give them more options. Maybe don't use some AT's. Sure, maybe it won't be as satisfying to you, but at least they will enjoy the game much more that way, and will likely come back for another go after that session.

Do you want to play against a new person without playing 'dumb'? How can you play your best (or near your best) without completely destroying your opponent? Well... have you ever wanted to pick up Mario as a secondary? Or have you never used Ness before? Pick a character you're weaker at (or a character you've never used before). This way, you can still play near your best (provided with a character you may not know how to use), but with the matches being more even, thus making the game more enjoyable for the other player.

Maybe you know how to use every character fairly well, but still want to improve from these matches. What do you do there? Well, are there any advanced techniques you have difficulty doing? e.g. having troubles double-jump cancelling in combos with Yoshi? Maybe pick Yoshi and try using only djc'd aerials. Sure you'll mess up alot and may even lose the match, but after a few matches, you'll get the hang of it (all the while making the matches funner for your opponent). Or maybe you can Fox shine-cancel 10% of the time, and would like to improve that ratio. Pick Fox and go shine only (maybe up-B to recover... your choice). Sure, it's obvious what you are doing, but... well, at least they have an equal chance at winning (shine only is really hard to kill with if you aren't the best at it). Just try to pick something that they can easily defeat (so no practicing the timing of Kirby's up-tilt combo).

Heck, I played against a new Falcon player in person (he played the game a few times before, so he knows the basics, but can't combo). I went shine only against him on various stages. He knew very well what I was doing, but he didn't care. He got hits on me and killed me several times, so he was happy (he won most of our matches we had while doing this). He found it a challenge to use what he knows to try to counter getting shined, and slowly he found ways to punish me. Sure going shine only may seem like a cruel way to play, but... well, they'd be more thankful you do wierd things like that than go all out and destroy them.

One last point: If your opponent is thinking of playing as a character you hate (e.g. Kirby), and you don't want another Kirby up-spamming noob to deal with... suck it up and deal with it. Yes, Kirbys that spam up-tilt are probably very annoying to deal with for characters that go from 0 - 100 once hit by one up-tilt, but at least you have a new (probably permanent) 64 player. Who knows... maybe they'll prefer to use someone else later? Discouraging someone from using a certain character could easily discourage them from playing the game anymore. This doesn't only apply to Kirby btw. Also, if they want to have an item match, or a 50% damage match, a ffa with cpus, a timed match, or a match on Yoshi's Story, or Mushroom Kingdom, or Sector Z, play them with those settings. Let them feel in control of what happens. Sure, the rules or stages may suck, but... well, if they like it, then try to like it as well for them. And for Heaven's sake, don't cloud camp the entire match on Yoshi's to punish them for picking that stage :p



SUMMARY:

If you are playing against a new 64 player who you can obviously beat no problems, go easy on them. Pick a new character, use only 1 or 2 attacks. Let them win a few games. Sure, it may not be satisfying for you in the short run, but if this new player decides to continue to play and gets better, then in the end, the "play weaker" strategy ends up paying off in the long run. Never discourage them from picking a certain character, as this may discourage them from continuing to play. If they want to change the rules from the standard ruleset, let them do that. Simply put, let them play the game they want it to be played, and then they'll enjoy it more.

Well, hopefully this helps some of you to recruit some new 64 players from the melee/brawlers (or other games) in your area. Who knows, maybe if one person has a good experience playing against you, they'll advertise the game to their friends for you.
 

asianaussie

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
9,337
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Sayonara Memories
Blue Yoshi for admin.

Tell noobs to play for fun, they'll get better without even realising it as they try to mimic you (assuming you have some level of skill).

This is good enough to put into the smash index, really.
 

ballin4life

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
5,534
Location
disproving determinism
I agree except the part about ffa with cpus :)

Out of all the people I know hardly anyone will play me because of the skill gap. I have one friend who will sometimes play occasionally but usually quits after losing a few matches (or quits after I let him win one, saying that he's going out on top... that *******) and one other friend that will only play 200% items matches. Those are actually pretty fun though
 

dandan

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
1,373
in my opinion, playing badly vs someone won't help them, i personally do not like people who sandbag.
in my view, playing like this can cause bad habits for the other player, and thus, not helping him to get better.

moreover, i think the use of techs like shine only and more can backfire as it can be viewed as "looking down" upon the new player.

anyhow, this is just my take, i hope more people will be with my view of not caring about losing, as long as you can improve, because i think this is the healthiest way to look at things.
 

Skrlx

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 18, 2008
Messages
2,673
What really sucks is getting owned by a person that uses only 1 character the whole time you've played and you realize you've picked every character and got beaten by that single character.

What's worse is if it's a character that can get easily gimped like Link.
 

Blue Yoshi

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Messages
4,410
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Jake is definitely dropping Yoshi
Uh... you guys are somewhat changing the purpose of my post.

The target opponent is someone new to smash 64... probably having not played it before (or maybe not having played any smash game before). These are tricks to attract new people to smash 64. Obviously, once they start playing more and enjoy the game, you should start taking a different approach. But trying to get them to come back is the first often overlooked step.

Lets just say I did everything I posted above. The 64 scene started from just me in the Summer 2008, and slowly turned into half the smash community (and some non-smash players). Don't try to make them the best at first, just make them have fun. Then, the more you play, start showing them tricks and tips. Once they see that there are more things they can do, they will be more attracted to the game.
 

yeah buddy

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 20, 2010
Messages
14
Whenever I play with my one friend whose quite worse than me I'll let him get me down to 1 stock then I'll start trying. Unless he gets a hammer (he plays with items on, I just let him get them all) I always end up winning anyway :p But at least he thinks its close, and comes back for more :D
 

t3h Icy

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
4,917
Me and Daedatheus used to play a lot and he would **** me, like 3-4 stocks a match with characters like Link. Example. But after we started doing Falcon dittos, I learned what he was doing and started to mimic him and develop my own style (varying from him, I mean) and after about a month and a half, we were very even and had a ton of amazing matches. After awhile, me and AfterDawn started playing a lot and I got better still.

This is just my personal opinion, but I think doing dittos against newer players helps them figure out a style that works, and what to do and not to do. Once they get some confidence (which makes a HUGE difference), and they're very fluent with their character(s), then they can develop their own playstyle and become a better player.

The only thing though is that not everyone is fluent with every character, so it can be hard to teach newer players through dittos if you're not good with that particular character (especially if they use one of the trickier characters like Yoshi or Ness).
 

t3h Icy

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
4,917
lols. =/
10lols
The point is that I didn't know how to play Falcon, but after getting beaten by an opposing Falcon, I picked up on how to play and once I had some base of what I was doing, I could learn the other match-ups.
 

Skrlx

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 18, 2008
Messages
2,673
The point is that I didn't know how to play Falcon, but after getting beaten by an opposing Falcon, I picked up on how to play and once I had some base of what I was doing, I could learn the other match-ups.
lols. =/

10lols

How good is your falcon when you're not playing ditto's
 

NixxxoN

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
3,726
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Barcelona
Simple... play to have fun... you can win but also you can let the others have fun, by not playing too hard.
 

Skrlx

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 18, 2008
Messages
2,673
never play kirby on a new guy

they'll be like "oh god, it's the ssb64 version of META KNIGHT"
 

Kefit

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 2, 2003
Messages
357
Location
Bellevue, WA
I can only fight against my instincts so much in this game. Sometimes I try and hold back a bit to let my friends have more fun with the game, but they are pretty decent players. Holding back against actual noobs wouldn't change anything, cause I can't really fight against proper spacing, approach, and reaction instincts. Plus playing this way takes the fun away from the game for me =/

New players are better off new players with guidance from the pros, at least until they develop the basic skill set needed to not instantly die in skilled play.
 

SKpro

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
Messages
26
Location
SoCal
Hey, going easy on my friend actually made him enjoy the game, plus he said that he is thinking about playing it at a higher level. He's never played the 64 version of smash before we played. We both played every character just so he could get the hang of the characters, and he likes Samus & Kirby. I didn't have a problem losing because i play for fun & i wanted him to get into it, Unless i'm in a tournament, then i play for fun, & the money! lol
 

P D

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Messages
579
id always play on some gameshark stages to mix it up with the noobs, keep them intrested
 

ooRainpuddlesoo

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31
THIS is how I got all my friends and others to pik up ssb64 again. DEC 2009 Friend1: "Man I wish they would make a new smash bros game, im tired of melee and brawl isnt that fun to me." ME: "LEts go play smash64 lol, bet its better thhan brawl." Thats how it started, then we went and looked up combo vids to step up our game. After playing each other long enough we thought, "God this would be awesome with online play!!" Then we found kaliarrea and actually good competition. When the game was popular alot of ppl played it, ive made it new to my friends again by showing them advanced techniques (z cancel, spiking, etc) They say things like "I had no idea smash64 could be so fast and in depth" Alot of ppl play melee and brawl, and I think skill is transferable through games, so go find ppl who still play new smash, and remind them how GREAT the original is
 

Agent_21

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 15, 2010
Messages
131
Location
Your mom's house.
I had that effect in ssb when I play certain people, some people I like playing them when they try their hardest even if I get destroyed such as Firo and A$, but then I play Malva00 or YBOMBB I just put down the controller after like 2 rounds and quit. Its just super annoying when you are trying to play but you get caught in one of their combos, I think that's why they ruined alot of combos in SSBB.
 

UnholyWeapon

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 28, 2010
Messages
159
Location
Texas
Well the going "easy" on a new player definetly would depend on that one persons personality. Say someone didn't like to be taken easy on so they quit because they know you were going easy on them, that could be discouraging to that particular person. But say someone likes you playing them hard because they like the challenge and want to get better by playing better players. Everyone is different.
 

NeoKronos

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 25, 2010
Messages
76
Location
Brisvegas, baby
I don't think people rush head first into joining the community, I think they play because they want to play the game. If we make the interface more user friendly and make setting up easier the more likely people will join and that inturn increases the chances of the people becoming regulars.
 

rawrimamonster

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 28, 2010
Messages
745
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dearborn heights MI
Lol your first paragraph is exactly the problem with my friend, and the thing is, I was already sandbagging him to begin with. He's actually very good at melee, but after about 3 combos against my Fox (in 64 of course) he threw the controller and called the game gay. Thanks to this I get no practice on console.
 

Zen Yore

Smash Ace
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
910
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Montreal, Quebec, Canada, North America, Earth
I play samus against new players usually
lmfao same.

and i agree with dandan, going easy on noobs wont make them better, it will just make them feel like they're better. personally, i give noobs tips if they look interested in getting better (DI, Z-Cancel, DJC, etc.). yep, im actually a pretty nice guy. but if i play against some random mexican saying "juego, GOGOGOOGO", then i just won't. But yeah, obviously I won't play against noobs like if I was playing Malva, Boom or Jaime, instead I'll just try some random rapetent combo and ftilt stuff lol.
 

andrewajt62

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 20, 2007
Messages
219
Location
Long Island, NY
I agree, even on netplay I just go easy on the occasional new player. Sometimes using the cpu's, tournament banned stages, and, I know it sounds completely crazy, items. For such an old game, we still have an impressive community
 

Shizsei

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 27, 2010
Messages
23
Location
Texas
lmfao same.

and i agree with dandan, going easy on noobs wont make them better, it will just make them feel like they're better. personally, i give noobs tips if they look interested in getting better (DI, Z-Cancel, DJC, etc.). yep, im actually a pretty nice guy. but if i play against some random mexican saying "juego, GOGOGOOGO", then i just won't. But yeah, obviously I won't play against noobs like if I was playing Malva, Boom or Jaime, instead I'll just try some random rapetent combo and ftilt stuff lol.
LOL leave it to the mexicans
 
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