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Useful Wolf thread.

Seagull Joe

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You people don't understand honestly how good Wolf's Nair is. It's his fastest aerial, can true combo, can steal jumps, can be punisher when Nair Oos, and it even shaves damage when an opponents shielding.

It also can beat Nado when used at the top. I don't know if most Wolf's know this, but Nair beats Nado at the top as long as it isn't stale (who stales Nair?)

Nair gets out of juggles much easier. I implore Wolf's to use Nair when being juggled more often then Shine because Nair comes out on frame 4 while Shine comes out on frame 8. Shine is always good because it has invincibility. But if you're being juggled opt to Nair. Shine has more frame advantage though and is better in some circumstances. Also if you're ever being ground combo'd ever and you want to escape, don't hit random buttons or directions or DI, just jab. Has plenty of priority and comes out on frame 4 also. Breaks the Gonzo combo every time. Verse Pika dthrow infinite though, you should Shine out.

If you ever see someone get floored from ANY attack ever. Dacus them and scoop them up. True combos. Fthrow>Dacus works a ****load of the time because people always DI the floor from an Fthrow. If a Bair floors a person, then Dacus. Buffer when necessary.

Short hop shine> aaa is a true combo on several characters. It works on every fatty. I don't remember though if it works on Snake. But D3, Bowser, Dk, and Ganon are guaranteed even with DI because of the set knockback.

Falco's Jab>grab combo is not legit on Wolf. I see Wolf's get grabbed a bunch by this when if Wolf Jabs after Falco does (since he is going to try to grab), then you won't be grabbed and he will be punished. Same goes for D3. Your jab outprioritizes D3's grab. I'm not saying though to stand still holding A button hoping he dash grabs because that'd be ********, but it's good to know. If a Falco ever Jabs then does his multy Jab, do not, I repeat not Fsmash when you SDI out. You will get powershielded every time. That's what the Falco wants and knows you will do. Instant punish.

Shine> Jumpshine is legit on a lot of characters.

SDI down when versing a Sheik and being tilt locked. SDI down and shine shine shine. Keep trying to shine till you get free because it has 1 frame advantage. Tough, but that's how you escape.

When a D3 up b recoveries, grab his *** at the edge if possible. This forces him to be released onto stage or he will try to grab the edge in which you can edgeguard. When he up b's on stage, this puts him in such a horrible position because of landing lag and you can follow up and punish accordingly. I suggest Usmash or Uthrow or Bthrow because I like to get D3 in the air and makes it so he can't grab you since he isn't on the ground. That's my personal preference, but do what you want.

If you're ever lucky enough to grab Wario at the edge, then release into a Dair. It's basically a free kill.

Try to mix up bair walls. Sometimes people get through the first bair and prepare to punish from the FH bair. When I see them coming at me and airdodge through I always Uair fall rather then FF bair since that will hit them out of airdodge. So FH Bair> Uair. You don't need to fast fall it, but you can.
Well Pit's chaingrab is only like two fgrabs>down grab>Uair. It's not escapable, but realize Pit's grab range is only 2nd to Ganons. It's just pitiful and these combos only work at 0%.

Marth Cg also only works at 0 and I think it's two times into a tippered Fsmash or Dair. Not avoidable yet only minimal damage and easily avoided with just spacing attacks. If Marth hits Wolf with just one Fair beforehand then the Cg won't even matter because he will be outta the percent range, which is why this match up is still 55-45 Wolf's favor or even. Just camp Marth with Lasers till he approaches because Marth can't reflect nor shoot back anything. When he approaches Bair him away and do it again. Funny, but Marth can't do much about this.

And I'd like to say for ROB vs Wolf since some have problems is a very easy match up if you know what to do. ROB can't camp Wolf, but Wolf can camp Wolf. You're wondering "How does Wolf possibly outcamp ROB?", well Wolf's laser is slow, but does plenty of damage. It isn't too slow either. In the time you shoot a laser ROB, you will then be able to put you're reflector up and etc... Just laser camp and reflect back ROB's projectiles. ROB is also the easiest character to WoB.

I'll add more to this frenzy of random things later.
 

Ishiey

Mother Wolf
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Good stuff ;D

I'd just like to point out that while nair is frame 4, shine is invincibility starting on frame 1. BUT THAT DOESN'T MATTER. Know why? Because you can't use specials out of regular hitstun. Think about it, you momentum cancel with an aerial first, specials won't register. Airdodge lets you get out before an aerial, and an aerial before a jump/special. So basically, anything that doesn't send you into "true hitstun" (or whatever it's called, idk) is easier to escape from with nair than shine ;D

:059:
 

Goldenadept

Smash Lord
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Aug 23, 2009
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moves were shown, GG gull. i use nair quite a bit, its come in use a lot of the time

@justblaze. can i live with you in Ibara? thats my favorite territory :D <3 pendragon
 

_Kain_

Smash Champion
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Apr 30, 2009
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2,154
Nair is very good it's more or less judging the range on whether to use shine or nair when in the air to avoid juggles. But yea Seagull is right nair should be used a lot more ways of using it need to be found out
 

Seagull Joe

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people need to do this more:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXUcOei3FUM


98 more posts!


btw nair OOS really should be the LAST option you use OOS. It really should only be used if every other possible aerial is too slow to punish the opponent.
Basically I use it if they're right in front of me at my shield. I don't Nair Oos unless I have to. Also I sometimes sit at edge shielding for people to do get up attacks and I Nair Oos. You're right though to only do it as a last option. But if you want to say help refresh a move easier then doing the one hit of Nair can benefit your Fair being able to kill if you used it once. Helps to not keep other moves stale when you're not gonna kill with Nair.

And...YOU GOT THIS. 97 MORE NOW. YAYUHZ.
 

stock

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 24, 2006
Messages
6
Curious. I've used nair to cross over opponents. Is that generally a bad idea? It makes for a nice switch to bair but I've never really played competitively so I wouldn't know it's real effectiveness.
 

KRDsonic

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
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Charleston, West Virginia
So don't stale Nair against MKs? k, that'll be a hard habbit to work out then, that's usually the move I stale on the balloon, and on shy guys. I like it a lot, but I figured it's the best of my areals to stale.

:059:
 

tekkie

Smash Master
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Sep 28, 2008
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Shpongle Falls
Breaks the Gonzo combo every time. Verse Pika dthrow infinite though, you should Shine out.
-wtf are you talking about? after the fthrow > uair jab/nair/whatever does nothing against the next fthrow. i just tested this out.

-haha dthrow infinite still goes to like 120%
 

rvkevin

Smash Lord
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Apr 7, 2008
Messages
1,188
-wtf are you talking about? after the fthrow > uair jab/nair/whatever does nothing against the next fthrow. i just tested this out.
If you DI away after the Uair, you will be far enough away to not be re-grabbed.
 

Seagull Joe

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I'll update with more character specific information if people list characters they need knowledge about.

I just added a few more things to the OP to help some even if they know these things already.
 

Seagull Joe

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Well Pit's chaingrab is only like two fgrabs>down grab>Uair. It's not escapable, but realize Pit's grab range is only 2nd to Ganons. It's just pitiful and these combos only work at 0%.

Marth Cg also only works at 0 and I think it's two times into a tippered Fsmash or Dair. Not avoidable yet only minimal damage and easily avoided with just spacing attacks. If Marth hits Wolf with just one Fair beforehand then the Cg won't even matter because he will be outta the percent range, which is why this match up is still 55-45 Wolf's favor or even. Just camp Marth with Lasers till he approaches because Marth can't reflect nor shoot back anything. When he approaches Bair him away and do it again. Funny, but Marth can't do much about this.

And I'd like to say for ROB vs Wolf since some have problems is a very easy match up if you know what to do. ROB can't camp Wolf, but Wolf can camp Wolf. You're wondering "How does Wolf possibly outcamp ROB?", well Wolf's laser is slow, but does plenty of damage. It isn't too slow either. In the time you shoot a laser ROB, you will then be able to put you're reflector up and etc... Just laser camp and reflect back ROB's projectiles. ROB is also the easiest character to WoB.

Also added another fact about Falco.

Moving all of this to OP.
 

tekkie

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only like two fgrabs>down grab>Uair

Marth Cg also only works at 0 and I think it's two times into a tippered Fsmash or Dair
pretty sure these are both wrong because neither of these happened to me yesterday.

i'll look around for stuff to make sure.
 

D0N

Smash Ace
Joined
May 9, 2008
Messages
965
Nair gets out of juggles much easier. I implore Wolf's to use Nair when being juggled more often then Shine because Nair comes out on frame 4 while Nair comes out on frame 8. Shine is always good because it has invincibility. But if you're being juggled opt to Nair. Shine has more frame advantage though and is better in some circumstances. Also if you're ever being ground combo'd ever and you want to escape, don't hit random buttons or directions or DI, just jab. Has plenty of priority and comes out on frame 4 also. Breaks the Gonzo combo every time. Verse Pika dthrow infinite though, you should Shine out.
I was just passing through... didn't read it all but noticed that... :dizzy:
 

John102

Smash Cadet
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Aug 23, 2009
Messages
54
I also find nair good against the Diddy matchup because if you're doing a nair and he either throws a banana or shoots a peanut at you you will catch the banana, and for the peanut you will either catch it or break it.

Oh and I'm pretty sure SHFFU(did I say that right? Short hop fast fall uair) shine, AAA is a combo on low percents.
 

Ishiey

Mother Wolf
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Oh and I'm pretty sure SHFFU(did I say that right? Short hop fast fall uair) shine, AAA is a combo on low percents.
Truth :3

Although there are better things to go into after a SHFF uair imo, unless you're really looking to refresh your moves.

:059:
 

rvkevin

Smash Lord
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I also find nair good against the Diddy matchup because if you're doing a nair and he either throws a banana or shoots a peanut at you you will catch the banana, and for the peanut you will either catch it or break it.
Fair is a hundred times better...
 

Seagull Joe

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I also find nair good against the Diddy matchup because if you're doing a nair and he either throws a banana or shoots a peanut at you you will catch the banana, and for the peanut you will either catch it or break it.

Oh and I'm pretty sure SHFFU(did I say that right? Short hop fast fall uair) shine, AAA is a combo on low percents.
Short hop shine>aaa is true combo too.

Also if you hit an opponent with a grounded Uair, then buffer an Usmash and then follow them in the air. Much better then Uair>aaa where you can't really follow up and does significantly less damage.
Fair is a hundred times better...
This^
 

Dark 3nergy

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i love wolfs shine so much, i love it when baddies roll dodge behind me into a shine to dsmash. Wolfs nair is probably the strangest aerial ive seen. It has really no knock back, so you can literally go through someones hurt box and land behind them into whatever you want lol
 

rvkevin

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i love wolfs shine so much, i love it when baddies roll dodge behind me into a shine to dsmash
Doesn't and should never work.

Edit: Well, when the shield is diminished Dsmash does hit, but under normal circumstances it doesn't combo.
 

Seagull Joe

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i love wolfs shine so much, i love it when baddies roll dodge behind me into a shine to dsmash. Wolfs nair is probably the strangest aerial ive seen. It has really no knock back, so you can literally go through someones hurt box and land behind them into whatever you want lol
The first hit has knockback. A lot actually. And shine never combos into Dsmash except if you shine a rising opponent when they're off the edge and you Dsmash them before they grab the ledge.
 
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