A Thank You and Looking Forward (MD/VA)

Hey all,

I've been talking with a lot of people about our region. As you know, we didn't do so hot at pound. It was our home national tournament, and only 2 MD/VA made it out of melee pools (Chu and Plank) and only 10 players (Neo, Chu, Sanoscy, June, Omni, Boss, Candy, Takeover, Logic, HAT) got out of brawl pools.

This is really embarrassing for a region that used to be undisputed best in smash. I wasn't around for the glory days, but I'd like to create my own glory days.

I've never really proved myself as a player, so I'm focusing today on something I know I do well- Tournament Directing and Organization. This region has GOT TO change the way tournaments go around here. Everything is inconsistent and disorganized, and we always take forever running events. Our top 2 ALWAYS split, and no one seems to take the game super seriously. Everyone is late, takes breaks randomly, goes out for 1 hour dinners in mid tournament, and no one does anything. So before I go into where I'd like to go with this- lets start by acknowledging the people who ARE doing a good job and have done well this year. I want to give all these people a major thank you publicly and I want them all to know that we can't go forward without their support, so I ask you guys to continue moving in the right direction.

K-9- Thanks for opening up the woodbridge venue for events. We've done a lot of good things in that place- lets keep it up.
ChuDat- Thanks for keeping melee alive in your basement, your summer melee biweekly on friday night was one of the best tournaments in my life.
G-reg- thanks for continuing to make C3 efficient, whether we like the venue or not.
metalmonstar- The hagerstown venue is one of the best in our region. We will continue to use it for events!
Bolt- The gamehaven venue, although far for me, has seen a good start to 2010. Let's continue that momentum.
Plank- thanks for bringing the largest tournament in the history of the world in melee to frederick, MD. I'm sure you've got plenty of plans up your sleeve for the upcoming year.
HAT- you've been a consistent part of tournament organization the past year even though we haven't had an event at your store. Keep it up.
Sassy- keep the smashfests/mini tourneys coming! FNB HQ is too fun.
GIMR/Aposl- VGbootcamp will be a much needed tool to bring back high level play in our region.

Now with that done, we need to look at what is to come. There need to be a lot of changes for our tournaments. This is coming straight from Alpha Zealot, as this is a guy who took a community that had 20 man tourneys once a month and turned it into 40 man weeklys. How did he do this? I'll propose some changes that might help.

1. Time Constraints- guys, WE HAVE TIME CONSTRAINTS at our events. This means you can't show up at 2:00pm and expect to be in winners bracket. People need to go home at a reasonable hour, and we want to hang out after the tourney. If we hold the event for you an hour, it is really unfortunate to everyone else. Also, if a tournament is starting at 12:00pm, you need to post in the thread that it's starting at 11:00am or 10:30, because it takes time to get everyone organized. Being efficient will make people more likely to play finals at the end, instead of everyone just wanting to go home.

2. 10/10/5 theory- As a standard, we should really adopt the 10/10/5 theory of tournaments. Meaning, 10 for singles, 10 for teams, and 5 for venue. This means Game Haven, C3, and Ultimate Gaming Zone would have to settle for less. Venue owners might scoff at that, but the realization is that more people will come the more affordable it is. Lowering the price will slowly attract more customers where raising the price may be good at first, but the customers will leave.

So far, I have Plank and K9 on board with this program. Plank is trying to get UMBC tournaments like this, and K9's venue will have tournaments with this standard. I also will be using this standard for the hagerstown venue with metalmonstar. Hopefully we can get Chu on board for his new tournaments in Oxon Hill.

3. Payouts- This is probably my biggest gripe here. We pay out the top 6 players in teams, we should also be paying out the top 6 players in singles. This just makes sense. For teams, the standard is fine, but our current standard for singles is 60/30/10, but i'd like to change it to the following:

55/25/10/5/2.5/2.5

C3 already pays out top 4 which is a start, but we really need to change it. And i'm in support of this standard whether we have 20 people or 60 people. We need to adapt it, and fast. This will definitely keep people coming back for more. Imagine, for instance, getting 7th and 9th at tournaments. I've gotten 7th and 9th before several times. Under this format, thats only 1-2 games away from money. That's really a nice accomplishment to know you're getting something or were close to getting something. 2.5% might not be much, but it gives everyone a sign of "they can do better, keep it up". The more that enter, the bigger that 2.5 is. Now the people who win every week may gripe and complain and bicker but honestly I don't really care about your financial needs right now. 5% less for 1st isn't gonna kill you. Working a part time, 30 hour a week job at McDonalds pays better than getting 1st at every tourney all year. So if you're using smash to pay for stuff, you should really reconsider it right now.

The goal is to take our tournaments from 20 people where 16 of them go home empty handed and 1 of them feels like they had a shot, to 6 of them go home with something and 12 of them feel like they had a shot. THIS WILL GROW THE ATTENDANCE. It will. If a lot of people feel like they have a shot at something, they'll all come back regularly.

Perfect Example: Look at ultimate gaming zone. We had 60 people for the first event there, and now we barely get 30. That's 20-25 new comers that aren't coming back because they feel like they had no chance. Which leads me into my next point...

4. Smashfests- although not directly related to tournaments, we NEED to have smashfests ASAP. Not just sassy fests. And these smash fests SHOULD NOT BE TOURNAMENTS. People should get together to improve. At the last sassy fest, I met some players who hang out with FNB who don't really play in tournaments. This is a perfect opportunity to bring them to an event and have a good time. We really need to make this start happening.

5. Side Events- This is the other best way to bring newcomers to smash- by having side events. We've done this before- but usually people are late and our time constraints cause us to cancel side events. I'll be having a side event with Yu-Gi-Oh! at our march 20th event in hagerstown. People should really take a great multiplayer game with a great community and add it as a side event or their Brawl/Melee tournaments. When people look and see us having fun at Brawl, they may become interested and start attending smashfests and tournaments.

Suggestions for side events:

Pokemon Diamond/Pearl/Platinum/Heart Gold/Soul Silver (the DS game)
Yugioh Trading Card game
Super Street Fighter IV
Tatsunoko VS Capcom Ultimate All Stars
Mario Kart Wii
Dissidia: Final Fantasy
Mario Strikers Charged
Marvel VS Capcom 2
DDR/ITG/ dance games etc.
Donkey Konga (i have 4 pairs of bongos! Get at me!)
Mario Kart 64

Which leads me into my final suggestion:

6. Melee/Brawl MUST BE SEPARATE- As time goes on, I see more and more that this needs to happen. Not just because of time, or because of space. First off, there are players that play both games, which really hurts us timewise. But bigger than that, the problem we see is that the communities just don't get along that well. We really need to focus on one game or the other, as the communities are just really different. They will always be different. Shinku and Plank will never like Brawl better, and Takeover and Coney will never play melee over brawl. It's just gonna be like that.

I truly believe by adapting these strategies into our tournaments it will help our community 1. Grow 2. Improve Competition 3. Attract Out of Staters.

All of these things need to happen first though, and I'll be the one who takes the first step to do these things at my tournaments. Other TO's and Hosts, I urge you to do the same.

Thanks,
Scott

P.S. This thread would've never happened without Takeover and Alpha Zealot, so I'd like to thank them as well.

interesting thoughts, but can you really force people to split? the only solution to that is people stepping it up and making it to the final two and saying they won't split, that really the only way to control that issue

No you can't, but if it's only 7pm and we're at Grand Finals, there is plenty of time to Play the finals out. We can't force people not to split, but we can highly discourage it. If it's 12am and we haven't got to Grands yet, who even wants to play it out? Everyone is tired by then.

Great ideas Tantalus.

My boy tant steppin it up big..
I knew you were are biggest TO from start
Anyways good stuff talkin wit AZ he def is knowledgable nd organized..
We have ALOT of players that don't compete so this is a start for people to start coming..
Also an addition when organizing tourneys make a list of people that want to come
so basically have a confirmation list to make sure people feel needed..
Matta fact I can be a TO myself... hehehe

ohh yea almost forgot, tant or any other TO just look at this thread for alot of ideas..

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=259102&highlight=Takeover

Double post

ha i was just about to say alpha said most of this but tant you are the man.

I already expressed in the other thread that i dont come to tournys because i hate $10 venue fees and how long they take.

Thats why i only show up to sassys lol, if we get better ran tournys i would MOSDEF come to more

I'm not even from MD/VA and I read the post.

The fact that someone is even stepping up to the plate is ****. ****, if MD/VA doesn't take advantage of such a leader / TO I'd piss myself. I suggest people take these suggestions or come up with better ones and start increasing the scene. MD/VA has a bunch of potential and Tant's ideas are god tier.

CT needs some Tant

i'll train everyone

who wants to be better or more consistent? (glares at PS)

IF you all want to see ALL of these things put into action, please come to the hagerstown event on March 20th hosted by metalmonstar.

If you think i've been a time nazi before, get ready, you've seen nothing.

a few things:

I've been talking to chu extensively about how tournaments should be run, and some things I agree with and others I disagree with. Yes, we need a venue. A real one. Consistently, and with a venue fee of $5 or less. The difference between 5 or less vs anything higher is HUGE. It's a real deterrent to both new players and under-performers, and it punishes those that want to include uninterested friends/guests. As a grassroots community, venue fees are killer.

Side events do NOT progress smash in any way, it simply alters the focus elsewhere. Also, inclusion of a "serious" attitude further alienates our players from the game. Used in tandem, you create an atmosphere where the side event is the fun stuff and smash is work. Again, not helpful.

You also skipped any mention of a way to appeal to new players. Incoming new blood is the primary way of developing the skills of the older players by adding new ideas and innovation.

Umbreon said:

a few things:

I've been talking to chu extensively about how tournaments should be run, and some things I agree with and others I disagree with. Yes, we need a venue. A real one. Consistently, and with a venue fee of $5 or less. The difference between 5 or less vs anything higher is HUGE. It's a real deterrent to both new players and under-performers, and it punishes those that want to include uninterested friends/guests. As a grassroots community, venue fees are killer.

Side events do NOT progress smash in any way, it simply alters the focus elsewhere. Also, inclusion of a "serious" attitude further alienates our players from the game. Used in tandem, you create an atmosphere where the side event is the fun stuff and smash is work. Again, not helpful.

You also skipped any mention of a way to appeal to new players. Incoming new blood is the primary way of developing the skills of the older players by adding new ideas and innovation.

Click to expand...

Alright, well you contradicted yourself a bit there Max, you see by my idea, is to bring people in VIA side events. For example, I know that the hagerstown area is home to a TON of yugioh players. So at the hagerstown venue, I'm holding a Yu-Gi-Oh side event. I'm sure most of those locals will come out, and if the smash scene looks fun, they probably won't mind paying a little bit to enter the event.

I also covered smashfests, we need more of them! So that we can have people come over at no charge and enjoy the game with pros, then said pros can convince the new players that they have some talent and that they should try it out at a tournament. These are the only ways I can think of to bring people into events. Also, events at malls are helpful, as people can randomly glance by and see what we're doing. But other than that I don't know. Do you have a suggestion?

How about we start with "Find a venue that will be ok with charging $5 venue fee" that's around the washington/baltimore area? I've looked for like 2 years to no avail. Looks like Tant found one in Hagerstown, but im sure he's omitting his own cut of the venue fee just to make it cheaper. (Travis' tourney is at the same venue, fee is more).

Even if I ran C3's for free, I'd still have to work the owner down from $8, which likely won't happen.

Basically what I'm saying is, unless we rent space from some random dudes basement, or just rent out a big open room in general, and even THEN, a $5 venue fee is unrealistic. The owner of C3 won't hold up an entire day of business for our 20-30 person tourneys, so he can make $100-$150, when he could make like 3-4 times that amount just hosting a birthday party or something. It's not that there's "no love", the logistics just don't work out.

It's just my opinion, and it sucks... but times are changing and it's just a more expensive time (Not to mention living in Northern VA). It's a shame, but playing brawl/melee at a tournament for 10 hours is just simply worth more than $5, and people need to realize that.

Unless we get lucky and find some cheap room, and bring our OWN TVs and chairs and stuff, I don't see anything going below $5. (Not to mention you would run the tournament for free)

That's why I think pleading with LAN center owners is a waste of time,

UMBC is looking to be $5 right now.
Plank said he also has one in frederick that could be $5.
Yes I'm not taking a cut of the venue, so it's $5 at Htown.
Gaame Playe was $5 per tournament when we had sykesville tournaments (that place actually closed down shortly after the Critical Hit 4)
I can get the laser tag place for next to nothing that hova likes
K9's woodbridge venue is $5

The only strictly $10 venues are Game Haven, Ultimate Gaming Zone, and C3.

If the venue is $5, we'll definitely attract more players, maybe not enough to make up the difference right away, but in the long run I can see us getting 50-60 man tournaments at c3.

Greg- I don't mind C3 having $10 venue if we get the entire venue all day. I'd like to give c3 a chance- March would be the best month to try this out. But what if we did a large scale c3 tournament? Like when we did C3 ECRC. It doesn't have to be ECRC, but lets do a big scale tournament in March at c3 (the same weekend as Herb, but Herb right now is looking weak and not worth attending at this point) and i'll bet I can get 50-60 people to show up instead of 20 people at 6pm. The all day events are better and can attract a bigger crowd.

we need pools too -_-

I know noraa

Pools are another discussion for another day, can't stuff everything through the bottle at once

I like these suggestions Tant and think they will be able to bring more turnout. Especially the 10/10/5 fee.

But I see the inclusion of side events and "melee and brawl must be separate," as contradictions because wouldn't side events have the same effects? Side events just take the focus away from the main events and if that also means we lose tv's to those events then things won't run much smoother.

Not to say none of the side-events you suggested wouldn't work. I don't see as much of a problem with yugioh (and other tcg) and pokemon since those side events are self-contained not involving another tv, controller, etc. But I see side-events as something the players in our own community may start for fun.

Like when TvC first was release, smashers would bring their own set-ups and play for fun, possibly hold a side-event. But this didn't necessarily bring in many new players. I remember when a side TvC event was held at one of Chu's biweekly...some new players showed up but only for TvC, sure they played friendlies in smash, but I don't see those players coming to another event unless TvC is held...bringing the focus away from smash.

If you want to bring in new players AND keep them coming...pools and maybe an amateur bracket would be ideal because this allows players to feel they are getting their moneys worth when they enter because they get to play more matches in tourney instead of the usual 1 double elimination bracket where new players may only get to play two matches and feel they wasted $15-$20. In general pools allow player to actually play more matches and also gives new players a chance to get to know members of the community in their pools. How often do you see a new guy that never entered a tourney before that doesn't really talk to anyone? Those new players don't usually show up again and pools may give them a better experience then paying $20 to play 2 matches.

EDIT: lol ninja'd by noraa on the pools suggestion.

=]

TenChars

Not only do we need new players, but we need players to return to the scene. We have a ton of players who never come out much anymore who would bring great things to the smash community.

Look at all the players we have in our region:

Omni
Hova
G-reg
Meep
Chu
Azen
Chillindude829
Chinesahh
Forte
K9
ADA
FFXIV
Oath
BMX
Bolt
Oh.
Lykeios
Mattix
Llamapaste
rpgfighter
Tantalus
EE
SOVAman
Waffle
Bonk
June
Sanoscy
Nilik
NKB
BetaZealot
Smash GOD
LLOD
Noraa
Bert
Neo
Logic
Boss
Candy
ESOJ
Chaos
Kornn
ChaosKnight
Thumbswayup
Shinku
Nacker
YO
Rei
HAT
Btree
DK Smash
Turbo Gilman
Yoster
Takeover
Coney
Sassy
23%
Matador
Pink Fresh
NO-IDea
Plank
GIMR
Aposl
Lobos
Slikvik
Jayo
Radori
Asaph
Rise
Okin
Bionic Sonic
Shadofiend
SonicMaster5
Seagull
Vist
Deez
Sin
Lie
TKO
SnackAttack
JJVirus
Sito Sama
Kojin
KREVA
Wispy
XLR8
Relaxed Exorcist
Leaf Player
Urban Menace
Nova
D0N
Kadaj
Famous
WhoDat
Tristan Win
TwentyTwo
Amon
AEX73
Manic
Mars
Joe
Mulligan
Jett
SRK
Wolffang
Gonzo
White Peach
Blazah
Relm
metalmonstar
herfderf

And probably some people i'm forgetting. That is 111 people I listed. They've come to tournies within the past 6 months or so. Why can't we get half of them to show up on a weekly basis? We're barely getting 1/5th of that on a weekly basis. And I'm probably neglecting to mention some, to be fair. We're really getting 1/6th of our players on a weekly basis when we could have 1/2 of that on a weekly basis.

People need to attend more events, bottomline. If they don't see enough reason to, they won't. So the problem is on my hands to deal with, and this is how I'm going to do my events. Come to hagerstown on March 20th if you want to see what this is all about.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=263625

I also have a plan for regional coverage, more into that later.

Region Coverage



Ideally, there is no reason to clutter our region with the same tournaments each month. Therefore I believe as a community we should do a better job at coordinating events to this map. Yes, it's a bit silly, but it also gives you a better perspective of our region.

We should be doing 1 tournament per group there, meaning one East, one West, one Central, and on South tournament per month.

Frederick/Hagerstown/Gaithersburg is in the west
Baltimore/Catonsville/Reisterstown is in the east
Laurel/Oxon Hill/Ashburn is in the center
Woodbridge/Fredericksburg is in the south

On a 5th saturday, we could have big epic tournaments at special venues. Maybe specfically for OOS to come in.

C3 does want me to run a "BIG" brawl tournament in the coming months. however, i fail to see how I can attract a good turnout, with all these "majors" occuring month after month this year..... that's why i've been hesitant cause i get 30 peeps on the good turnouts. C3 Dave will give me a full day, I'd just have to announce it 2-3 months in advance and really get people to come.

BY THE WAY

C3 has 9 wiis. now. NINE. I've been trying to figure out how to get brawl data on them without having to beat the game 9 times, but It looks like I'll have to. If anyone has any NON-HACKING suggestions I'm open to them.

G-reg i have an idea

move the brawl bin data from the wii onto an sd card, then copy it onto your computer. Then from there, move it back from the sd card to the wii.

Then recopy the brawl .bin file back to your sd card, and move it back to every other wii and see if that works out.

Also, if not, you can always do 450 1HP stamina rounds with fox to unlock the cast, takes about 2 hours

Edit: That map is a sova map without sova being on it

you cant copy wii brawl data to an SD card from the data management menu. try it on your own wii, it doesn't let you.

You can move it, cant' you? Im not talking copy, i mean move it straight off the wii onto the sd card.

Then just copy the file on a PC, then leave it on the sd card, and MOVE it back. It's like "Cut" command on the computer. I thought it let you move but not copy.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=U...1690505687839620302.00047f6da46eb26ad9ec9&z=9

^^^Another view at Tant's regions with more tourneys marked. Just click the placemarkers or the left side to find out which placemarker is which.

My apologies that it isn't SOVA lol

I do have this one place in Dundalk called Homer's Haven that I recently went to for a birthday party, I'll check it out and post what happens.

Until then, I am currently looking on getting a job, and getting my license just so I can come to more tournaments.

g-regulate said:

C3 has 9 wiis. now. NINE. I've been trying to figure out how to get brawl data on them without having to beat the game 9 times, but It looks like I'll have to. If anyone has any NON-HACKING suggestions I'm open to them.

Click to expand...

http://allisbrawl.com/news/newspost.aspx?id=91

^^^That may be worth a try g-reg, haven't tried it myself so I don't know if it will work but at least it's without hacks.

Welp, I just got ganged up on in the MD/VA chat for not really agreeing with the 5th place payouts. Apparently it's why I'm not considered a TO (who cares about status though I just wanna host something good and near). I'm not "open" enough. Even though I already said I'd refund 4th's entree fee I guess that isn't enough of a compromise so I'll adapt your payout method.

For the record I've always had a $5- venue fee @_@

Edit: Oh and @ tant's stamina thingy just put that leech flower thingy on so all you have to do is pretty start.

I have parent johns for not going to tourneys xD
I wish I could go every weekend, but I can't until smash god starts driving...

B0NK said:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=U...1690505687839620302.00047f6da46eb26ad9ec9&z=9

^^^Another view at Tant's regions with more tourneys marked. Just click the placemarkers or the left side to find out which placemarker is which.

My apologies that it isn't SOVA lol

Click to expand...

This was useful and nicely organized. Well done.

On a more productive note, I have an idea. How about only two tournies a month?

It's a hassle for players to go to a tourney every weekend. Both time and money wise. Alternate between the divided four regions. Thus, instead of 1/4 or 1/6 of our region going to a tourney every weekend, it'd be 1/2 or 1/3 every other. It will lead to the same payout, mathematically speaking. Just... to less people because of less tournaments.

The weekends where there aren't tournies in our region, we can devote them to FREE smashfests and potentially arrange transportation to OoS events. It just seems less conflicting and more sensical to me.

AND ON THAT NOTE, I suggest MD/VA TOs coordinate with NY/NJ/PA as far as timing goes. Again, if we do alternating tournaments, and all regions establish when they host a tournament, perhaps we can get bigger turnouts from OoS players attending.

Just... don't have two MD/VA tournies weekend after weekend. It's annoying to those who have lives outside of smash (jobs, school, girlfriends, etc.) ~PS~ doesn't count. He's just weird.

I'm sure someone has proposed this idea before, but it hasn't been put to practice yet. My 2 cents

i second the two-a-month deal. and hey, no-one's saying we can't organize smashfests at places during the off weeks, riiight?