Let's tinker with bone structure!

fortwaffles · Feb 13, 2010

well, this is a small program i made. i can edit:
bone index
parent bone
child bone
next bone
previous bone

http://www.mediafire.com/?mzoyygjjdiz

instructions:
save the model file as model.mdl0 in the same directory as bone mods.exe
the rest is self explanitory.
up/down change bone by 1
left/right change bone by 10
after hitting done, the program will automatically close when finished

make sure you have BBox handy, and it sadly doesnt show the name of bones.
feel free to delete bones.bon when finished with everything

JoeGrandma · Feb 13, 2010

So... this edits the hierarchy structure for the bones, right...?

I'm really bad at this kinda stuff.

fortwaffles · Feb 13, 2010

yeah. you could have mario's left arm sprout off of his finger for example

Shadic · Feb 13, 2010

Awesome. This would have been extremely helpful when I was working on Isaac. I could look into that again....

brawlshifter · Feb 13, 2010

This should be very useful. Thanks, fortwaffles.

Shadic said:
Awesome. This would have been extremely helpful when I was working on Isaac. I could look into that again....

You stopped? And you didn't tell anyone?

fortwaffles · Feb 13, 2010

well, dont get too excited, cuz it looks like the stucture messes up in Brawlbox after loading it, and saving it. anyone want to find a way to fix tht? :3

...:::VILE:::... · Feb 13, 2010

Could you give me an overview of the process this goes through to change the bones hierarchy. Im pretty sure i might be able to tell you if it works or not.

Shadic · Feb 13, 2010

brawlshifter said:
You stopped? And you didn't tell anyone?

Well, yeah. Sorry?

fortwaffles · Feb 13, 2010

...:::VILE:::... said:
Could you give me an overview of the process this goes through to change the bones hierarchy. Im pretty sure i might be able to tell you if it works or not.

i sucessfully got it to change rock lee's bones all to being root bones (none are parented)
so i think the problem is you have to tweak a few other bones to make everything match up. it just changes the hex data in that bone.

i tried again, and it still has hiccups. ill keep looking into it

JediKnightTemplar · Feb 13, 2010

Just wondering, what new stuff will this contribute to Brawl hacking? I know it has significance, but I don't really know what, besides for adding bones to trophy models eventually (note I said eventually I know that currently is impossible) this can do. I can't really see the practicality of renaming bones, though there is some, I'll guess.

fortwaffles · Feb 13, 2010

this changes where they go. for example, say bone A has B ans C connected to it, and bone C had D connected
A-+
....B
....C-D
you could change it to
A-+
....B-C
....D
or whatever

I found what the problem is with saving them. ill work on fixing it

Eldiran · Feb 25, 2010

Nice! This will be incredibly useful if it works! Good stuff, fortwaffles.

Smash Bro · Feb 25, 2010

This seems pretty cool. Is it sort of like vertex editing sans 3DS?

fortwaffles · Feb 27, 2010

i think i might edit this to add bones now that i know how

superyoshi888 · Feb 28, 2010

Tutorial for bone adder plox.

digiholic · Feb 28, 2010

Quick question, do you know what might cause a model with edited boneIndexes to not show any changes in BrawlBox? I swapped out the indexes of two bones with this program, but in BrawlBox they stayed their normal values. I re-opened it in the program, and even in a Hex Editor, and the BoneIndexes were changed to what I wanted them to be, but BrawlBox just won't show the changes, and nothing changes in Brawl (which it should if I did it right)

Is it because I added bones?

EDIT: It looks like that's the reason. I re-did my model, editing the indexes before adding bones, and it worked.

E-Jolteon · Mar 1, 2010

Man, this tool is quite confusing. it does not handle newly added bones well either.

dxrkn3ss · Mar 2, 2010

Tutorial would be great! I have no extra bones to give my amy the throwN and other stuff

superyoshi888 · Mar 2, 2010

Could you please release a fixed version of the bone adder? Or at the very least a tutorial to add them manually? The bone adder seems very finicky about choosing the models it wants to properly add bones to and the models it wants to break. >_>

...:::VILE:::... · Mar 2, 2010

If anything you should have a bone remover.

shock44 · Mar 14, 2010

Okay, I don't get this. What happens when I change the parent, the child, the next thing, the previous thing? I don't want to change something randomly without knowing what I'm doing. Can somone help me understand the functions of this program better?

ThatGuyYouMightKnow · Mar 16, 2010

Yeah....someone told me the top number is what bone you're changing. How am I supposed to know what bone that is? The second number is the bone index, correct? =/

Some of the parent/child bones are negative; none of the bone indexes are negative. o_o

Anyone care to explain?

NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT · Mar 16, 2010

Fort, I need a favor, and I would really appreciate if you can teach me or do it for me

I would like a decapitated character in brawl

I would like bowser, to have he's head not attaches to he's body but an extra bone, so I can move the head on my own, like making the head be on the hand and stuff

I would love this

but in an extra bone it makes more sense, since I want to be able to throw the head with some smashes and tilts

plz do reply to me even in here on via PM

EDIT*

hope that by tomorrow I can get an answer ^^ this thing... Will become my dream come true

I'm a bowser fan, bowser lover, bowser main and... Bowser is my dad :D

he will definetly be really great :D

I already have a moveset in mind, but just need this to be comfirmed

fortwaffles · Mar 17, 2010

...:::VILE:::... said:
If anything you should have a bone remover.

?? not sure how this would help, unless its sarcasm, x3 lol

Eldiran · Mar 17, 2010

ThatGuyYouMightKnow said:
Yeah....someone told me the top number is what bone you're changing. How am I supposed to know what bone that is? The second number is the bone index, correct? =/

Some of the parent/child bones are negative; none of the bone indexes are negative. o_o

Anyone care to explain?

It is rather confusing.

The top number is indeed the Bone Index of the bone you're changing. The second number is what new value to change that Index to.

The Parent, Child, Next, and Previous values are all relative offsets.

In other words, when it says Parent is -1, that means the parent bone is back 1 bone.

If you have something like this:

BoneA
--BoneA1
--BoneA2
--BoneA3

where BoneA1-3 are children of BoneA, BoneA's child value says 1. Child determines the first child's position.

BoneA1's Parent value would be -1, because BoneA is 1 back.
BoneA2's Parent value would be -2, because BoneA is 2 back.
And surprise, BoneA3s Parent value would be -3, because from there BoneA is 3 back.

For BoneA1-3 the Child value would be 0, since they have no children.

Hope that makes sense in my roundabout explanation.

shock44 · Mar 18, 2010

Eldiran said:
It is rather confusing.

The top number is indeed the Bone Index of the bone you're changing. The second number is what new value to change that Index to.

The Parent, Child, Next, and Previous values are all relative offsets.

In other words, when it says Parent is -1, that means the parent bone is back 1 bone.

If you have something like this:

BoneA
--BoneA1
--BoneA2
--BoneA3

where BoneA1-3 are children of BoneA, BoneA's child value says 1. Child determines the first child's position.

BoneA1's Parent value would be -1, because BoneA is 1 back.
BoneA2's Parent value would be -2, because BoneA is 2 back.
And surprise, BoneA3s Parent value would be -3, because from there BoneA is 3 back.

For BoneA1-3 the Child value would be 0, since they have no children.

Hope that makes sense in my roundabout explanation.

Thank you for explaining this. I now understand the whole parent child thing in this program. Now if someone can just explain what happens when someone changes the next part and the previous part then I'll be able to mess with bones better.

Eldiran · Mar 18, 2010

shock44 said:
Thank you for explaining this. I now understand the whole parent child thing in this program. Now if someone can just explain what happens when someone changes the next part and the previous part then I'll be able to mess with bones better.

Glad to help. I'll share everything I know about Next and Previous as well.

Say you have a bone layout like so,

BoneA
BoneB
BoneC
--BoneC1
--BoneC2
BoneD

The Next value for BoneA is 1, because the the next non-child bone (which I guess you could maybe call a "sibling bone") to it is 1 bone away. The same goes for BoneB.

However, BoneC's Next value is going to be 3. That's because there are two child bones between it and its next sibling bone.

BoneD's Next value is 0, because there are no sibling bones after it. BoneC2 also has a value of 0 for Next, because even though there is a bone after it, it's not a sibling bone.

Previous is the same as Next except for the previous sibling bone.

Values of Previous in the example:
BoneA : 0
BoneB : -1
BoneC : -1
--BoneC1 : 0
--BoneC2 : -1
BoneD : -3

shock44 · Mar 19, 2010

Eldiran said:
Glad to help. I'll share everything I know about Next and Previous as well.

Say you have a bone layout like so,

BoneA
BoneB
BoneC
--BoneC1
--BoneC2
BoneD

The Next value for BoneA is 1, because the the next non-child bone (which I guess you could maybe call a "sibling bone") to it is 1 bone away. The same goes for BoneB.

However, BoneC's Next value is going to be 3. That's because there are two child bones between it and its next sibling bone.

BoneD's Next value is 0, because there are no sibling bones after it. BoneC2 also has a value of 0 for Next, because even though there is a bone after it, it's not a sibling bone.

Previous is the same as Next except for the previous sibling bone.

Values of Previous in the example:
BoneA : 0
BoneB : -1
BoneC : -1
--BoneC1 : 0
--BoneC2 : -1
BoneD : -3

Thanks man. Now I know I'm prepared to use this program. I really apperciate you explaining this.

superyoshi888 · Mar 19, 2010

Alright, after doing another test with a different model than the one I was using previously, I think I've figured out the issue.

I suspect that the bone adder writes over unused space instead of inserting the bones in. Normally, this wouldn't be an issue, as there is typically a large amount of empty space between the bones and other important info when looked at through a hex editor. However, if you attempt to add too many bones- it doesn't matter if you do it all at once or in increments of, say, 20 -it will overwrite important information, corrupting the files. For example, in an unmodded mdl0 file, I can find this text string in the hex:

Code:

DolJugem........DrawOpa.....Hosei.......Jugem.......JugemKumo.......JugemKumoM......JugemKumoM__KumoTex.....JugemM......JugemM__JugemTex........JugemTex........KumoTex.....NodeTree........TogeTex.....TogezoM.....TogezoM1........TogezoM2........TogezoM3........TogezoM4.......*TogezoM4__pasted__pasted__pasted__TogeTex1......TogezoM__TogeTex........TopN........pasted__TogeTex.....pasted__TogeTex1........pasted__pasted__TogeTex1....... pasted__pasted__pasted__TogeTex1........polygon0........polygon1........polygon2........polygon3........polygon4........polygon5........polygon6........pos00.......rotN........togezo.1........togezo.2........togezo.3........togezo.4........transN..

However, it is absent from an mdl0 that I added 160 bones to. Could you release a new version that fixes this issue? That would help out with a lot of issues people have with the program.

fortwaffles · Mar 19, 2010

what the bone adder does, is duplicates data to the end of the file, and repoints all the bones to the bone area of the copied data, so you can overwrite the rest of the stuff with more bones, but too many will get into the strings, which is at the end of the file still, so in theory, adding them in increments should copy the copied data, aswell as the normal data, making it roughly 4x the size, still giving room for more bones, but maybe i will add more...? idk...

pikazz · Mar 21, 2010

fortwaffles?

my antivirus saying your programs are virus D:
and then I trying to clean away the virus, your program file change the name (like bone adder.0xe or bone adder.exe.arx)
do you know if it are your program or it is my computer are crazy? D:
*scanning my computer for virus!*

E-Jolteon · Mar 21, 2010

pikazz said:
fortwaffles?

my antivirus saying your programs are virus D:
and then I trying to clean away the virus, your program file change the name (like bone adder.0xe or bone adder.exe.arx)
do you know if it are your program or it is my computer are crazy? D:
*scanning my computer for virus!*

Ever heard of a false positive?

pikazz · Mar 21, 2010

E-Jolteon said:
Ever heard of a false positive?

no I have not ;_;

but it is strange, first it worked fine about 3-4 weeks, then this happend ;_;

NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT · Mar 26, 2010

reposting

Fort, I need a favor, and I would really appreciate if you can teach me or do it for me

I would like a decapitated character in brawl

I would like bowser, to have he's head not attaches to he's body but an extra bone, so I can move the head on my own, like making the head be on the hand and stuff

I would love this

but in an extra bone it makes more sense, since I want to be able to throw the head with some smashes and tilts

plz do reply to me even in here on via PM

EDIT*

hope that by tomorrow I can get an answer ^^ this thing... Will become my dream come true I'm a bowser fan, bowser lover, bowser main and... Bowser is my dad :D

he will definetly be really great :D

I already have a moveset in mind, but just need this to be comfirmed

/leaves and waits for an answer

*stares* - I'll be back, Reposting may be inevitable

OdinOmega · May 23, 2010

I'm sorry if this is bumping, but I got a problem.
I am working on a hack for Ness. For that, I need the BatN bone to become ThrowN's child bone.
So, I ran the program, typed 11660 as the offset and 66 as the number of bones.
Then I did this:

.

I replaced Ness's model data with the edited model and everything looked fine:

(The numbers next to them are the BoneIndexes, if needed.

I saved the .pac file but when I reopened it or tried it in Brawl, the bones got messed up like this:

Now I need to know what I did wrong. I tried some other things, but none of them worked. I hope someone can help me. Thanks.

EDIT: Nvm, I didn't see the post about it messing up after saving...

Pokechao · Jun 21, 2010

wait im confused
if i want silver's (from ghz backround) transN node index thats already at 4 but i want to move it to 1 and silver has 59 bones would i type the mdl0 index of TransN or the mdl0 index of the first bone in the model, then put 59 for the amount of bones? then with this index screen how do i change it?
This program is driving me nuts just trying to figure it out ._.
do you think you can explain it alot more in a simpler way?

Xigger · Jun 22, 2010

Bleh... I wish I could figure this out already D: But thanks for the continued help FortWaffle!

Eldiran · Jun 22, 2010

@Pokechao: type in the offset of the first bone and then the number of bones. It's all very confusing until you figure out that by pressing the arrow keys you can change which bone you're modifying. (The top number is the number indicating which bone you're editing.)

FLSHK · Jun 28, 2010

Oh, could someone please explain to me why there are decimal numbers? If it helps, I'm editing Electivire's model.

Xigger · Jul 7, 2010

Eh.... may as well ask for help. WHY IS THIS SO COMPLICATED

The saving part needs fixed. Otherwise I'd be using this like crazy.

Let's tinker with bone structure!

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