Match-Up Rediscussion: Wolf

Meru. · Feb 18, 2010

It seems like no one has made a new match-up rediscussion, so I thought:

"Hey, I'll make one myself!"

So here we go :D. But first, tha rules (copyright of Rickerdy-doo-da-day):

Rickerdy-doo-da-day said:
As the number of characters left to discuss in the Peach Weekly Match-Up Discussion thread begins to dwindle, I've have decided to start up topics for rediscussing characters who I feel may need to be covered again. This is primarily due to potential changes in the match up, new discoveries, new tactics and how they may have affected the match up. Also, for some characters, because they were discussed a long time ago, they may be out of date

Now because I can't trust some of you on this board, I'm going to copy/paste these rules on all of these rediscussion threads:

-SUPPORT YOUR CLAIMS WITH EXAMPLES/EVIDENCE/THOUGHT/VIDEO. Do not say "Snake beats Peach" or "Peach owns Wolf" or something out of the blue without explaining why, you are just wasting thread space. Keep intelligent discussion.

-We are here to learn, not fight. We're all trying to become better Peach players, so please don't get into over heated discussions - learn and be reasonable.

-This thread serves two purposes. A) To determine how the matchup goes for Peach. B) To determine how to handle the matchup. So not only post why you think it goes (see guideline below), but post strategies and what you do that works.

-Feel free to add really good tactics you discover of a character already discussed. New tactics are helpful and don't think just because its already been discussed not to add anything, or we will never get better information on the matchup as the meta game progresses!

- PLEASE let me know if you want me to highlight anything from the thread discussion into that respective character's "summary" on this page. I'm not always sure whats the best advice and whats not so help point it out to me for me to highlight

- Attempting to ridicule someone to prove your point will not be tolerated. It disgusts me when people try to do this. If someone struggles with something and you don't or if someone thinks the match up is such and such because of this and you think 'well you can do this and this, why are they saying that?' for the love of god, explain to them your viewpoint. Insults such as 'well your air game must suck if you find this hard' are pathetic, childish and I will mostly likely disregard whatever else you have to say

I wish I didn't have to feel the need to do this as it clusters up the OP of each of these topics and someones going to have a cry about me putting this but sadly, I can't trust some of you. I don't care about personal feuds or the like. Keep the discussion match up related ok?

Wolf

PLAY TIME'S OVER

Corrupted · Feb 18, 2010

I'll start by saying this. Fh bairs a mad annoying if you don't know what to do with them. Instead of sitting in your shield when they Fh FF double bair, ground float uair OoS after the first one for a nice uair string (a cool 100+ damage). sh ff bairs only give you enough time to jab OoS, or grab if you are in range.

friggin bair

Praxis · Feb 18, 2010

I'd like to get some more info on this matchup- I completely forgot how to play it.

LanceStern · Feb 18, 2010

I've been having a little bit of trouble with this. His bairs are ridiculous that outspace all of my aerials. And his fair out-ranges every aerial but our fair, but then it is much faster! It can also be hard to get my hands on him with his stupid jabs and moves that MOVE HIS BODY LIKE 3 feet!

I try to get a dair on him and go to work... but for people who can't do the uair string, how can we do damage to him?

I don't see how you can uair OOS?

Corrupted · Feb 18, 2010

LanceStern said:
I've been having a little bit of trouble with this. His bairs are ridiculous that outspace all of my aerials. And his fair out-ranges every aerial but our fair, but then it is much faster! It can also be hard to get my hands on him with his stupid jabs and moves that MOVE HIS BODY LIKE 3 feet!

I try to get a dair on him and go to work... but for people who can't do the uair string, how can we do damage to him?

I don't see how you can uair OOS?

Generic stuff like dair dair uair utilt i guess.

As soon as this fh bair hits you shield, wolf will be pretty high up in the air. Float OoS and DI towards him, he will not be able to DI anough to avoid ending up above you for a uair. Remember to DI as much as possible - he cant cross up because his fair lags like ****.

Mikey Lenetia · Feb 18, 2010

Also keep in mind that if you have a turnip in hand and he tries to bair wall you, you can use it for mix-ups and such. Also, if he hits your shield and you powershield/don't slide back, you can possibly nair OoS, drop shield and ftilt, or utilt if he's really high in the air. DON'T Toad that move, since it'll most likely cancel out all the spores. Glidetossing OoS for a cross-up/mix-up is nice, too. If you're facing away from Wolf, counter with your own bair.

Wolf getting off the stage against Peach is where we have the easiest time, since his recovery IS that bad. Usually, a turnip will be enough to put him in a bad position. Nair will break at least his side B, usmash might be able to break both(someone please test this for me), and fsmash should be able to do the same. Once you learn Wolf's movement patterns in his attacks, you can start living longer and longer. It's also possible to DI out of the strong hit of his fsmash at higher percents, making his job of actually KOing you a bit harder, too.

It would be a little in Peach's favor if it wasn't for Wolf's effective walling game against her. As such, and for now, I'm not going to give my full thoughts on the match, but neither character IMHO destroys the other.

castorpollux · Feb 18, 2010

wolf can camp peach like a biatch. ask sky. he would know

Seagull Joe · Feb 18, 2010

Wolf can easily camp Peach and Peach getting back on stage is really hard verse Wolf. If you jump float on you get Dsmash'd. If you hang there, Dsmash. If you float recovery from the sides, Bair death. Peach can Cg Wolf till around 30% and Ftilt, doing about 45% damage in total. Peach can't really float approach a smart Wolf cause he will just blaster. FH Fair in my opinion is the thing that gives peach more trouble getting through then anything. She regularly floats and this move has a lot of priority. Peach's Jab is faster then any of Wolf's moves, but she can't Jab>grab if Wolf Jabs after her Jab. Wolf can reflect turnips with shine or airdodge catch or avoid altogether. Jumpshine wrecks Peach because it nullifies her float and puts Wolf above her.

I don't think I've lost to one Peach ever in singles offline and will gladly money match any Peach. Llod just a pride match (serious match) verse you though because of your circumstances with money matches

.

I think this match up is even.

And where is this mentality that gimping Wolf is so easy? No smart Wolf drops so low as to get gimped by one turnip.

Praxis · Feb 18, 2010

Are you going to Viridian City?

Seagull Joe · Feb 18, 2010

Praxis said:
Are you going to Viridian City?

I don't think I can cause of school/money. Otherwise I'd go.

Rickerdy-doo-da-day · Feb 18, 2010

The reason I haven't put one up is because I have been drowning in work for goodness knows how long, I simply don't have the time I used to to attempt to contribute to SWF anymore so apologies on my behalf

I've been also slightly put off by the lack of contribution to these rediscussion threads. Yes this is me having a whinge, deal with it. Constantly I have to bump the threads to get people to contribute at least something. Frankly, it feels like I'm being a pest which is not what I want to be seen as

Match ups that do get discussed never reach a solid conclusion either - just look at the Snake rediscussion. I know that some of us have disagreements over paticular match ups but even if you can't agree on a number, some strategies in a list of bullet points or some videos demonstrating how to go about tackling a match up. Even discussion about how you could apply certain random stuff in would be good

I'm glad Yaaaay has decided to get the match ups back into gear and again its my fault that there hasn't been a rediscussion thread for ages but...like I've said, you can always discuss random stuff in the sticky. Please don't rely on me to show the 'right way' of dealing with a match up or to just write up something about a match up from the top of my head - I'm hardly qualified to do so. I've never been to a tournament in my life and the Brawl scene in my country is practically non existant :laugh:

Again, I am sorry if it sounds like I'm having a ***** and moan and yes it is my fault the match up thread is horrendusly out of date but I've got other things to worry about and like I said, I'm not really qualified to give my own opinion on match ups, the best I can do is throw out tips and basic info about other characters. I NEED proper information if I'm going to write up a match up and if thats not the case, someone else writing up a match up would be greatly appreciated

Meru. · Feb 18, 2010

Woooow, you blame yourself way too much, it really doesn't matter lol xD, nobody's blaming you a thing ;p. You've done a great job and life > Smash, so it doesn't matter at all.

Anyway, what can Peach do to stop a camping Wolf?

Ishiey · Feb 18, 2010

If you float OoS after the first FH bair, Wolf can shine on the way down to mess you up I'm pretty sure, although I can't say I've had a Peach try that before.

Everything else has pretty much been mentioned I guess >_> I think it's in Wolf's favor by a bit, your bair is really annoying imo.

I'm bad with camping, so can't answer that last one for ya

White-Peach · Feb 18, 2010

Seagull Man said:
I don't think I've lost to one Peach ever in singles offline and will gladly money match any Peach. Llod just a pride match (serious match) verse you though because of your circumstances with money matches .

Where do you live? We played Brawl+ at Pound4 and I lost to you

I've only played brawl+ for like 2-3hrs on one day, 4ish months before Pound4 (NO JOHNS :D). I'd love a rematch in regular brawl :3

(And if it is possible to play you, money matches are dumb! :D)

lloDownedu74 · Feb 18, 2010

Seagull Man said:
Wolf can easily camp Peach and Peach getting back on stage is really hard verse Wolf. If you jump float on you get Dsmash'd. If you hang there, Dsmash. If you float recovery from the sides, Bair death. Peach can Cg Wolf till around 30% and Ftilt, doing about 45% damage in total. Peach can't really float approach a smart Wolf cause he will just blaster. FH Fair in my opinion is the thing that gives peach more trouble getting through then anything. She regularly floats and this move has a lot of priority. Peach's Jab is faster then any of Wolf's moves, but she can't Jab>grab if Wolf Jabs after her Jab. Wolf can reflect turnips with shine or airdodge catch or avoid altogether. Jumpshine wrecks Peach because it nullifies her float and puts Wolf above her.

I don't think I've lost to one Peach ever in singles offline and will gladly money match any Peach. Llod just a pride match (serious match) verse you though because of your circumstances with money matches .

I think this match up is even.

And where is this mentality that gimping Wolf is so easy? No smart Wolf drops so low as to get gimped by one turnip.

You're on at that pride match ;D I doubt I can go to any tourneys soon tho.

Regarding your info of text, I do have some rebuttals :O Although I'm not an expert at the Peach:Wolf matchup, I do know a little tricks. First, I do agree that Wolf can camp Peach, but I mean its not as bad as Falco, and if we can beat Falco camp, then we can beat Wolf camp. Floating over lasers, going through them without leaving the ground, and simply airdodging through are a few ways. There is, of course, the choice that peach can camp Wolf, but that's not a very smart idea unless youre a stock ahead

Getting back on the stage isn't too hard for me actually. What can wolf do against a jump=>dair? I mean, sure he might be able to fair/uair her, but considering dsmash is one of wolf's likely edgeguards, then would he be expecting to jump? Its all mindgames right there, because even though wolf can counter all of peach's getups, she has several ways of getting up. so whoever predicts the other one wins. Also besides the CG, peach also has the uair chain

Its avoidable, but... I mean... yeah

Contrary to common belief, Peaches don't float all the time. I actually spend a lot of time on the ground now. Of course, floating is awesome, but it can be punished with stuff like lasers, bairs, and fairs. On the ground, not many of wolf's aerials are too effective and unpunishable against her. And right when you're about to punish her on the ground, she jumps :O

Jab has a lot of options besides jab->grab. Although jab grab is really useful, it can be beaten. So, what does peach do? Well, imagine this: Peach jabs, leaving the opponent hitstunned a little bit. However, if wolf can jab peach before her grab, then he should jab, rite? But, what if peach jumps after her jab, evading wolf's jab. Also, what if she floated right above his head and daired? Thats a lot of damage, rite?

Lastly, wolf can beat turnips. But the entire game isn't about projectiles. If all peach did was turnip, then she would obviously lose. So the point of turnips is to cover all options: through a little behind them so it hits them if they roll backwards, throw above so they can't jump, throw at them if they airdodge. Turnips don't have to be meant for damage, but more specifically mind games.

I've never really dealed with wolf's shine, so I'm not too sure how exactly to deal with it. Anyone have advice?

So overall, they both have a lot of stuff against each other. Wolf has lasers, Peach has combos. Wolf has bair, Peach has fair. I wouldn't say even, but maybe 55-45. Idk.

And sorry for the long post

Also <3 Seagull :D

Seagull Joe · Feb 18, 2010

White-Peach said:
Where do you live? We played Brawl+ at Pound4 and I lost to you I've only played brawl+ for like 2-3hrs on one day, 4ish months before Pound4 (NO JOHNS :D). I'd love a rematch in regular brawl :3

(And if it is possible to play you, money matches are dumb! :D)

LOL. I don't play brawl+ ever. I just enter it if if it's at a regular brawl tourney I'm at. I'd gladly play you White Peach. Doesn't need to be a money match, but if you want one then I'm always up for it.

lloDownedu74 said:
You're on at that pride match ;D I doubt I can go to any tourneys soon tho.

Regarding your info of text, I do have some rebuttals :O Although I'm not an expert at the Peach:Wolf matchup, I do know a little tricks. First, I do agree that Wolf can camp Peach, but I mean its not as bad as Falco, and if we can beat Falco camp, then we can beat Wolf camp. Floating over lasers, going through them without leaving the ground, and simply airdodging through are a few ways. There is, of course, the choice that peach can camp Wolf, but that's not a very smart idea unless youre a stock ahead

Getting back on the stage isn't too hard for me actually. What can wolf do against a jump=>dair? I mean, sure he might be able to fair/uair her, but considering dsmash is one of wolf's likely edgeguards, then would he be expecting to jump? Its all mindgames right there, because even though wolf can counter all of peach's getups, she has several ways of getting up. so whoever predicts the other one wins. Also besides the CG, peach also has the uair chain Its avoidable, but... I mean... yeah

Contrary to common belief, Peaches don't float all the time. I actually spend a lot of time on the ground now. Of course, floating is awesome, but it can be punished with stuff like lasers, bairs, and fairs. On the ground, not many of wolf's aerials are too effective and unpunishable against her. And right when you're about to punish her on the ground, she jumps :O

Jab has a lot of options besides jab->grab. Although jab grab is really useful, it can be beaten. So, what does peach do? Well, imagine this: Peach jabs, leaving the opponent hitstunned a little bit. However, if wolf can jab peach before her grab, then he should jab, rite? But, what if peach jumps after her jab, evading wolf's jab. Also, what if she floated right above his head and daired? Thats a lot of damage, rite?

Lastly, wolf can beat turnips. But the entire game isn't about projectiles. If all peach did was turnip, then she would obviously lose. So the point of turnips is to cover all options: through a little behind them so it hits them if they roll backwards, throw above so they can't jump, throw at them if they airdodge. Turnips don't have to be meant for damage, but more specifically mind games.

I've never really dealed with wolf's shine, so I'm not too sure how exactly to deal with it. Anyone have advice?

So overall, they both have a lot of stuff against each other. Wolf has lasers, Peach has combos. Wolf has bair, Peach has fair. I wouldn't say even, but maybe 55-45. Idk.

And sorry for the long post

Also <3 Seagull :D

Unlike a fast laser that does 1-2%, Wolf has a slow laser that does 6-7%. It's much different then Falco's laser.

Wolf's shine has invincible frames on startup and beats anything except a shield. If you follow Wolf in the air while he is falling then shine is the best option if Peach is off the ground. Smart Wolfs shouldn't shine into grounded Peach's from the air unless she is charging a smash or in the middle of a move.

I'm convinced this is an even match up.

Eddie G · Feb 18, 2010

This matchup can be frustrating. Thank goodness the MW only has Kain and Sliq who use Wolf at a high level of play.

I don't really have an answer to his bair camping other than to somehow establish an early lead and camp him harder to discourage it, or I'll try to time a forward glidetoss upward (immediately after his first bair) or forward (as he lands from his second bair). The worst position I find myself in after giving chase with a forward glidetoss is standing behind him while he's in his shield which I could then attempt a grab, jab, or bait a bair attempt from him so I could intercept with a nair or a short hopped toad (sparingly). Fighting him with our own bair is also applicable, but must be done cautiously since his beats ours to the punch every time.

_Kain_ · Feb 18, 2010

lloDownedu74 said:
So overall, they both have a lot of stuff against each other. Wolf has lasers, Peach has combos. Wolf has bair, Peach has fair. I wouldn't say even, but maybe 55-45. Idk.

If you mean combo by dair you can DI out and punish it. I've done it before DI out to bair or shine

Razmakazi · Feb 18, 2010

Vs bair camping I just powershield to nair oos. You can back away and space dtilt on his landing also. Ftilt can anti-aerial wolf but he could space an airdodge and punish that. Stutter-step fsmash is good for beating bair too but Wolf can mix it up and b reverse laser or somethin'. I also remember edrees making a post about using your double jump to dodge/outspace bair that'll set up a good punish. that post shud be somewhere around these boards.

idk i just approach on the ground powershielding ****. turnips help a good deal in this matchup since they can force him to shield or force him in the air. At any rate it makes approaching easier so if you need one you can just bonewalk one or w/e.

i know there's more but I haven't played one in a couple months.

Seagull Joe · Feb 19, 2010

Razmakazi said:
Vs bair camping I just powershield to nair oos. You can back away and space dtilt on his landing also. Ftilt can anti-aerial wolf but he could space an airdodge and punish that. Stutter-step fsmash is good for beating bair too but Wolf can mix it up and b reverse laser or somethin'. I also remember edrees making a post about using your double jump to dodge/outspace bair that'll set up a good punish. that post shud be somewhere around these boards.

idk i just approach on the ground powershielding ****. turnips help a good deal in this matchup since they can force him to shield or force him in the air. At any rate it makes approaching easier so if you need one you can just bonewalk one or w/e.

i know there's more but I haven't played one in a couple months.

Well you're in california. Go find Choice (NorCal) and play him. He has plenty of Sky practice anyway.

Praxis · Feb 19, 2010

The matchup's always felt even to me, but Edrees has a lot of experience and insists it's 60:40, last time I talked to him.

I've beaten Viviff twice and lost to him last week, but I still feel like neither of us know what we're doing and making guesses as to the best punishment options while spamming our safest moves. xD

Dark.Pch · Feb 19, 2010

castorpollux said:
wolf can camp peach like a biatch. ask sky. he would know

No he can't.

Seagull Man said:
Wolf can easily camp Peach and Peach getting back on stage is really hard verse Wolf. If you jump float on you get Dsmash'd. If you hang there, Dsmash. If you float recovery from the sides, Bair death. Peach can Cg Wolf till around 30% and Ftilt, doing about 45% damage in total. Peach can't really float approach a smart Wolf cause he will just blaster. FH Fair in my opinion is the thing that gives peach more trouble getting through then anything. She regularly floats and this move has a lot of priority. Peach's Jab is faster then any of Wolf's moves, but she can't Jab>grab if Wolf Jabs after her Jab. Wolf can reflect turnips with shine or airdodge catch or avoid altogether. Jumpshine wrecks Peach because it nullifies her float and puts Wolf above her.

I don't think I've lost to one Peach ever in singles offline and will gladly money match any Peach. Llod just a pride match (serious match) verse you though because of your circumstances with money matches .

I think this match up is even.

And where is this mentality that gimping Wolf is so easy? No smart Wolf drops so low as to get gimped by one turnip.

From the way you seem to be going over board and saying somethings about this match up, the Peach players that can't beat you don't know the wolf match up or playing a basic/typical peach.

When Peach gets inside wolf, thats it for him. She has a good pressure game that leaves with hardly any options out of the shield except to roll. You can't punish me out of the shield. Short hoped moves are besst when gong to Wolf. Floating from distance trying to get at wolf is asking to get hit. Peach can float near you to start her pressure, But should not be trying to do that all the time. Short hopped moves are best on him.

I don't get why people are thinking camping is just a big problem. For one thing, his blaster cuts off at a certain distance, and is not all that quick like Fox-Falco. it is not hard to get close to wolf if he wants to camp. I even have time to get a turnip and block an shot coming to me in time. So if a Peach is seriously having a hard time with his blaster, they are getting annoyed at the wolf camping and not thinking clearly. You shoot on the ground. Hop over it. You shoot in the air, go under or crouch and move in. Or shield and go in with a glide toss.

"But we will just relfect it"

I know, and thats what I want you to think. I can shield go to you and Do ai air attack with a turnip thinking I will toss it and you get hit. Thinking typical like you post seems to be is not gonna get the job done.

So blaster is out the way and not even a big deal. Next big pain for people is his bair. Now I said this many times before. With Bairs like Wolf, DK, DDD, etc. You leave those moves alone. Wolf wants to sit there and spamm bair? Ok. Leave him, who says you have to do anything. Don't test these moves. Thats how you beat this nonsense. What you can do is move in with your shield and pinn him to a corner if he wants to play keep away and spamm that move. Around this time his space and spacing is limited. You will have an easier time to hit him, or he would have to stop with the bair in fear of an OoS assult on him. As Obvious as this may sound, If wolfs like to go in and Bair spamm alot, jump into it and toad. You can hit him this way. And now that you have an option to abuse wolf for that move, he has to think twice before going on with his bairs. Congrats, you just reduce the bair use and don't have to worry about it too much.

This is stupid or weak you may say? There is a match on youtube M2K Marths Vs PC falco. M2K was countering Marths Lasers whenever he had the chance too and was hitting falco with it. PC chris had to limit his laser game on his Marth cause he could just counter it. Same time M2K could not just go on counter happy. It was smart use of the move. And thanks to that PC had to think twice before lasering and limit the use of lasers. So in that match, there was not as much laser shots as he would have like to have so He could go on serious Falco **** mode. This lead to M2K getting more control of the match then he was suppose to have. So think of it that way. One of your most punishable moves can be your god hand and help you win a match. Think out side the box.

So bair and blaster is done with

Another way is to go in and Dair if you are close enough. Rubn ib with your shield and then Nair him. remeber he has to touch the floor. So you can also time a Ground floated Fair/bair. If you have a turnip, move in with shield, and as soon as that Bair hits, glide toss under him and toss the turnip upward.

Jab to grab does work on you. You Jab comes out on frame 4. Now if I jab your shield, you are stuck in it for one frame cause of hit stun. The takes you 7 frames to drop it. So that is 8 frames before you can do something. next youwould Jab with is 4. So its really 12 frames before you can do something to me. Peach Jab comes out on frame 6.

12-6= 6 frame advantage I have on you if you was to Try and Jab me. So sorry bit that plan is no good. You would just eat a grab. or if I wanded to play games with you, I can Jab cancel and abuse you for a jab you try to pull out with my jab and go for a Jab cambo/grab.

"Peach regularly floats" No. Peach does not have to be floating 24/7 in a match. Thats typical Peach play right there.

Recovering on wolf. This is really not a big problem. Why you think it is a problem? Cause Peach players tend to test your moves when returning. And they get hit. All Peach has to do is just pull away from wolf when recovering and do nothing. You can swing attacks all you want. I don't have to fight against them or be near you. My main mission right now is to get back on the stage safe. Not deal with you swinging attacks and me getting greedy to hit you back.

Getting greddy with Smash attacks is a stupid movbe to do on Peach. For Peach will punish you so hard OoS with her many options from it. ether with shorted hopped moves your grounded air attacks if you happen to go through me.

I'd glady MM you and see if you gonna get away with all this you talk against me. Since you have not lost to a Peach and being a lil to cocky in my eyes. Really with what you posted that just basic Peach play.

LanceStern · Feb 19, 2010

I'd like to see that match. But I don't think it's as easy as you say Dark Peach. Once she gets inside the jabbing and grabs and dsmashes by peach are definitely destructive. But Wolf is no clouch at close quarters either

At the same time I think Peach could do damage.

_Kain_ · Feb 19, 2010

Praxis said:
The matchup's always felt even to me, but Edrees has a lot of experience and insists it's 60:40, last time I talked to him.

I've beaten Viviff twice and lost to him last week, but I still feel like neither of us know what we're doing and making guesses as to the best punishment options while spamming our safest moves. xD

No offense but Viviff is a horrible Wolf just letting you know you shouldn't take what you learn from him and apply it to other competent wolfs

Dark.Pch said:
No he can't.

From the way you seem to be going over board and saying somethings about this match up, the Peach players that can't beat you don't know the wolf match up or playing a basic/typical peach.

When Peach gets inside wolf, thats it for him. She has a good pressure game that leaves with hardly any options out of the shield except to roll. You can't punish me out of the shield. Short hoped moves are besst when gong to Wolf. Floating from distance trying to get at wolf is asking to get hit. Peach can float near you to start her pressure, But should not be trying to do that all the time. Short hopped moves are best on him.

I don't get why people are thinking camping is just a big problem. For one thing, his blaster cuts off at a certain distance, and is not all that quick like Fox-Falco. it is not hard to get close to wolf if he wants to camp. I even have time to get a turnip and block an shot coming to me in time. So if a Peach is seriously having a hard time with his blaster, they are getting annoyed at the wolf camping and not thinking clearly. You shoot on the ground. Hop over it. You shoot in the air, go under or crouch and move in. Or shield and go in with a glide toss.

"But we will just relfect it"

I know, and thats what I want you to think. I can shield go to you and Do ai air attack with a turnip thinking I will toss it and you get hit. Thinking typical like you post seems to be is not gonna get the job done.

So blaster is out the way and not even a big deal. Next big pain for people is his bair. Now I said this many times before. With Bairs like Wolf, DK, DDD, etc. You leave those moves alone. Wolf wants to sit there and spamm bair? Ok. Leave him, who says you have to do anything. Don't test these moves. Thats how you beat this nonsense. What you can do is move in with your shield and pinn him to a corner if he wants to play keep away and spamm that move. Around this time his space and spacing is limited. You will have an easier time to hit him, or he would have to stop with the bair in fear of an OoS assult on him. As Obvious as this may sound, If wolfs like to go in and Bair spamm alot, jump into it and toad. You can hit him this way. And now that you have an option to abuse wolf for that move, he has to think twice before going on with his bairs. Congrats, you just reduce the bair use and don't have to worry about it too much.

This is stupid or weak you may say? There is a match on youtube M2K Marths Vs PC falco. M2K was countering Marths Lasers whenever he had the chance too and was hitting falco with it. PC chris had to limit his laser game on his Marth cause he could just counter it. Same time M2K could not just go on counter happy. It was smart use of the move. And thanks to that PC had to think twice before lasering and limit the use of lasers. So in that match, there was not as much laser shots as he would have like to have so He could go on serious Falco **** mode. This lead to M2K getting more control of the match then he was suppose to have. So think of it that way. One of your most punishable moves can be your god hand and help you win a match. Think out side the box.

So bair and blaster is done with

Another way is to go in and Dair if you are close enough. Rubn ib with your shield and then Nair him. remeber he has to touch the floor. So you can also time a Ground floated Fair/bair. If you have a turnip, move in with shield, and as soon as that Bair hits, glide toss under him and toss the turnip upward.

Jab to grab does work on you. You Jab comes out on frame 4. Now if I jab your shield, you are stuck in it for one frame cause of hit stun. The takes you 7 frames to drop it. So that is 8 frames before you can do something. next youwould Jab with is 4. So its really 12 frames before you can do something to me. Peach Jab comes out on frame 6.

12-6= 6 frame advantage I have on you if you was to Try and Jab me. So sorry bit that plan is no good. You would just eat a grab. or if I wanded to play games with you, I can Jab cancel and abuse you for a jab you try to pull out with my jab and go for a Jab cambo/grab.

"Peach regularly floats" No. Peach does not have to be floating 24/7 in a match. Thats typical Peach play right there.

Recovering on wolf. This is really not a big problem. Why you think it is a problem? Cause Peach players tend to test your moves when returning. And they get hit. All Peach has to do is just pull away from wolf when recovering and do nothing. You can swing attacks all you want. I don't have to fight against them or be near you. My main mission right now is to get back on the stage safe. Not deal with you swinging attacks and me getting greedy to hit you back.

Getting greddy with Smash attacks is a stupid movbe to do on Peach. For Peach will punish you so hard OoS with her many options from it. ether with shorted hopped moves your grounded air attacks if you happen to go through me.

I'd glady MM you and see if you gonna get away with all this you talk against me. Since you have not lost to a Peach and being a lil to cocky in my eyes. Really with what you posted that just basic Peach play.

Who have you played to make u state something so untrue as wolf cant do nothing OoS to Peach?

Matter fact don't respond the fact that the only moves you addresed are bair and blaster shows u have no real wolf experience lol so yea ima jus bow out MU discussions are dumb when ppl don't know what there talking about

Eddie G · Feb 20, 2010

Alright alright, let's come into these with open minds, people.

Dark.Pch · Feb 20, 2010

_Kain_ said:
Who have you played to make u state something so untrue as wolf cant do nothing OoS to Peach?

Matter fact don't respond the fact that the only moves you addresed are bair and blaster shows u have no real wolf experience lol so yea ima jus bow out MU discussions are dumb when ppl don't know what there talking about

If Peach is on a good pressure game, Wolf can't do ****. I studdied the frames of your character dude, I know about frames with this game and how this game works. Only choice you have is to roll away. You try to do anything out the shield while I am on you and you are gonna get hit.

And I addressed more than Blaster and Bair. I don't even think you are reading my post fully. And you wanna assume I don't have wolf experience? You never played a Peach that does not play typical and has a good pressure game. That post he made here is you playing basic Peach style. going on about floating for one thing like she seriously needs to be doing it all the time. Same time you had other Peachs come in here having problems with his bair and can't deal with it. Then you thinking his camping so bad on Peach. I had to be the one to break it down. You never had any good exepereince with Peach that knows that Match up and has a good pressure game. I can play this game too dude. You know nothing about my experience so lets not go there.

_Kain_ · Feb 20, 2010

Dark.Pch said:
If Peach is on a good pressure game, Wolf can't do ****. I studdied the frames of your character dude, I know about frames with this game and how this game works. Only choice you have is to roll away. You try to do anything out the shield while I am on you and you are gonna get hit.

And I addressed more than Blaster and Bair. I don't even think you are reading my post fully. And you wanna assume I don't have wolf experience? You never played a Peach that does not play typical and has a good pressure game. That post he made here is you playing basic Peach style. going on about floating for one thing like she seriously needs to be doing it all the time. Same time you had other Peachs come in here having problems with his bair and can't deal with it. Then you thinking his camping so bad on Peach. I had to be the one to break it down. You never had any good exepereince with Peach that knows that Match up and has a good pressure game. I can play this game too dude. You know nothing about my experience so lets not go there.

You shud go study more than cause we can Nair, Jumpshine OoS after your dair is done if your above us which is basically most of your pressure game. And even if you do dair us we can just DI out of it. Not to mention that first off you have to get inside us before you can even apply the pressure and wolf is great at zoning. And just blocking bair doesn't cut it cause your shield starts to shrink and we can start poking inside it with bair or fair

And for one Peaches do float a lot, not 100% of the time, but its a major part of her game he didn't go n say oh all peaches do is float all the time. What he meant is if you float your basically gonna eat a laser if ur in range of it and tell me what can peach do to avoid a laser while she's floating? If your not in the air what are you gonna do on the ground to approach? You can PS lasers but then your not in the air where Peach is best. Peaches game isn't revolved around her ground game. Her jab is amazing yes other than that all of her other moves are laggy and punishable on block. Not to mention she has a harder time finishing off Wolf than Wolf does finishing off Peach. Peach has a good pressure game but its nothing that can't be dealt with like your making it seem where all we can do is jus sit helplessly in our shield, no its not like that. And Wolf's zoning is good not as easy to deal with as ur making it seem, there are ways around it, but not with the simple ways you put.

And he beat Excel Zero at Pound 4. If iirc Excel Zero is one of the better peaches out there so please I think he knows what he is talking about. What notable wolves have you played against to support your theories?

Rickerdy-doo-da-day · Feb 20, 2010

KBizzle said:
Alright alright, let's come into these with open minds, people.

Pffff

Peach wins 110:-10 next discussion woop woop

_Kain_ · Feb 20, 2010

Rickerdy-doo-da-day said:
Pffff

Peach wins 110:-10 next discussion woop woop

Wolf's a scrub he has no chance against Peach

Dark.Pch · Feb 20, 2010

_Kain_ said:
You shud go study more than cause we can Nair, Jumpshine OoS after your dair is done if your above us which is basically most of your pressure game. And even if you do dair us we can just DI out of it. Not to mention that first off you have to get inside us before you can even apply the pressure and wolf is great at zoning. And just blocking bair doesn't cut it cause your shield starts to shrink and we can start poking inside it with it

And for one Peaches do float a lot its a major part of her game he didn't go n say oh all peaches do is float all the time. What he meant is if you float your basically gonna eat a laser if ur in range of it and tell me what can peach do to avoid a laser while she's floating? If your not in the air what are you gonna do on the ground to approach? Peaches game isn't revolved around her ground game. Her jab is amazing yes other than that all of her other moves are laggy and punishable on block. Not to mention she has a harder time finishing off Wolf than Wolf does finishing off Peach. Peach has good pressure game but its nothing that can't be dealt with like your making it seem. And Wolf's zoning is good not as easy to deal with as ur making it seem, there are ways around it, but not with the simple ways you put.

And he beat Excel Zero at Pound 4. If iirc Excel Zero is one of the better peaches out there so please I think he knows what he is talking about. What notable wolves have you played against to support your theories?

First off, no you can not Nair me out of shield. Your Nair hits on frame 4. Only way you gonna do that is if I am still floating. If I Float to a Dair and land as the 4th kick omes out, I can jab you. Her Dair hit stun is one. So really your Nair is 5 frames with shield. Peach can just Jab you or Nair you as you for for yours and you get hit. You can't just can't the laws of the game cause you say this and that.

And DI out of Dair. This is so Old and I know this already. Thats why Peach should also be shortopping her moves. If I short how Dairs and you DI out of it, I still have Follow ups. And thats thanks to you DI out of it. And dude to the waight the space animals arwe, it is not hard. So don't think that SDI out of Dairs saves you. Doing that with Floating Nairs yea. Shorted hopped? No You still in risk of taking damage.

Shield getting small. PS his move and moving in says other wise. Really if I been you to a corner since you wanna play Keep away. If you wanna poke me with the shield, there is one amazing thing people tend to forget you can do in this game. And That is you can angle your shield to protect that area more and not get shield stabbed. But what would you do Next, Do a Few bairs to a Smash attack? You gonna eat a punishment out of the shield. And with blocking the bairs, Peach should have a turnip when going in. You wanna play keep away right? So I'll just get a turnip and use that to slow you down and get a hit. And I already explained the ways to Hit you in my shield with it. Not if you are moving towards me with Bairs, PS and Nair. Or Ground float to an air attack.

Jump Shine hit on frame 8. If Wolf was to want to do that out of shield to stop my assults, Peach can just shield and then ground float a Nair out of shield. But because of this, the wolf can't get to happy trying to Jumpshine out of everything. Just like Marths can't get to happy with up-B out of shields.

People tend to forget Peach has a ground game. And the fact that you ask how Peach approaches on the ground shows me you don't know much about this character. I can ever go to you with ground floated air attacks while spacing, glide tosses, Hell even in my shield. A universal way to approach someone. But even with that when I move in with my shield I have many options out of it. And if I wanted to bluff a reaction out of you. I can run to you and cancel my dash with that float hop she does. Stopping me completely and be able to do ANYTHING I want from a dash attack. No character in this game has that option. People have not been abusing this with Peach, and they should. If you ever played melee at high levels and understood the uses of wave dashing, apply it to this.

Not Let me tell you something with her ground moves. With good spacing you are not gonna punish my ground moves. Why is that? Cause of one move called "Dtilt"

For one thing, you got the Dtilt Slide. It helps with my spacing and evasion. You get 2 things out of this. Really three cause you can counter attack. This is what I do with it:

Dtilt>slide>Jab
Dtilt>slide>Fsmash
Dtilt>slide>Ground Float>Fair
Dtilt>slide>Ground Float>Nair
Dtilt>slide>Turnip>Glide toss>Dtilt>slide> w/e you want after
Dtilt>slide>Toad (mindgame material)
Dtilt>slide>reverse bair
Dtilt>slide>Dair (if they come to you and wanna attack from the ground.)
Dtilt>slide>Dtilt>Slide>w/e

All this leads to many things and can be mixed and match. You can get pressure, spacing, evasion, and counter attacking all at once. And thanks to Peach's range, It would be hard for people to touch you. This is really effective against fast characters. This one thing improves Peach spacing by alot to create this annoying wall. It's even hard for the best characters in the game to get through. Peach is one of the best spacing characters in this game. I can space on the ground and bring my air game to ground along with it's spacing. So you thinking Peach seriously belongs in the air and only thing she has is 2008 mindset that people need to let go already.

As for wolfs I touched?

NinjaLinks
Leo
Xzax
And this dude from Long Island that I met at a tourny last month. we play alot and has a good wolf. I tend to forget his name. When I find out I'll tell you his name.

Seagull Joe · Feb 20, 2010

Dark.Pch said:
First off, no you can not Nair me out of shield. Your Nair hits on frame 4. Only way you gonna do that is if I am still floating. If I Float to a Dair and land as the 4th kick omes out, I can jab you. Her Dair hit stun is one. So really your Nair is 5 frames with shield. Peach can just Jab you or Nair you as you for for yours and you get hit. You can't just can't the laws of the game cause you say this and that.

And DI out of Dair. This is so Old and I know this already. Thats why Peach should also be shortopping her moves. If I short how Dairs and you DI out of it, I still have Follow ups. And thats thanks to you DI out of it. And dude to the waight the space animals arwe, it is not hard. So don't think that SDI out of Dairs saves you. Doing that with Floating Nairs yea. Shorted hopped? No You still in risk of taking damage.

Shield getting small. PS his move and moving in says other wise. Really if I been you to a corner since you wanna play Keep away. If you wanna poke me with the shield, there is one amazing thing people tend to forget you can do in this game. And That is you can angle your shield to protect that area more and not get shield stabbed. But what would you do Next, Do a Few bairs to a Smash attack? You gonna eat a punishment out of the shield. And with blocking the bairs, Peach should have a turnip when going in. You wanna play keep away right? So I'll just get a turnip and use that to slow you down and get a hit. And I already explained the ways to Hit you in my shield with it. Not if you are moving towards me with Bairs, PS and Nair. Or Ground float to an air attack.

Jump Shine hit on frame 8. If Wolf was to want to do that out of shield to stop my assults, Peach can just shield and then ground float a Nair out of shield. But because of this, the wolf can't get to happy trying to Jumpshine out of everything. Just like Marths can't get to happy with up-B out of shields.

People tend to forget Peach has a ground game. And the fact that you ask how Peach approaches on the ground shows me you don't know much about this character. I can ever go to you with ground floated air attacks while spacing, glide tosses, Hell even in my shield. A universal way to approach someone. But even with that when I move in with my shield I have many options out of it. And if I wanted to bluff a reaction out of you. I can run to you and cancel my dash with that float hop she does. Stopping me completely and be able to do ANYTHING I want from a dash attack. No character in this game has that option. People have not been abusing this with Peach, and they should. If you ever played melee at high levels and understood the uses of wave dashing, apply it to this.

Not Let me tell you something with her ground moves. With good spacing you are not gonna punish my ground moves. Why is that? Cause of one move called "Dtilt"

For one thing, you got the Dtilt Slide. It helps with my spacing and evasion. You get 2 things out of this. Really three cause you can counter attack. This is what I do with it:

Dtilt>slide>Jab
Dtilt>slide>Fsmash
Dtilt>slide>Ground Float>Fair
Dtilt>slide>Ground Float>Nair
Dtilt>slide>Turnip>Glide toss>Dtilt>slide> w/e you want after
Dtilt>slide>Toad (mindgame material)
Dtilt>slide>reverse bair
Dtilt>slide>Dair (if they come to you and wanna attack from the ground.)
Dtilt>slide>Dtilt>Slide>w/e

All this leads to many things and can be mixed and match. You can get pressure, spacing, evasion, and counter attacking all at once. And thanks to Peach's range, It would be hard for people to touch you. This is really effective against fast characters. This one thing improves Peach spacing by alot to create this annoying wall. It's even hard for the best characters in the game to get through. Peach is one of the best spacing characters in this game. I can space on the ground and bring my air game to ground along with it's spacing. So you thinking Peach seriously belongs in the air and only thing she has is 2008 mindset that people need to let go already.

As for wolfs I touched?

NinjaLinks
Leo
Xzax
And this dude from Long Island that I met at a tourny last month. we play alot and has a good wolf. I tend to forget his name. When I find out I'll tell you his name.

I see the word CAN a lot in your message. Theorycrafting is stupid. Ics can essentially get grabs 100% of the time, but it won't happen. Sheik's frame data is amazing, but she is mid tier. Xzax doesn't know the Peach match up. I don't know who Leo even is. Ninjalink's Wolf is weird.

Ego/Bias land=Peach boards.

Dark.Pch · Feb 20, 2010

Seagull Man said:
I see the word CAN a lot in your message. Theorycrafting is stupid. Ics can essentially get grabs 100% of the time, but it won't happen. Sheik's frame data is amazing, but she is mid tier. Xzax doesn't know the Peach match up. I don't know who Leo even is. Ninjalink's Wolf is weird.

That's right, you do see the word "Can" alot. For reasons you ued the word "can" for you lil IC example just now. This has nothing to do with theorycrafting. This is knowing your options in a match up and how to abuse them. There is a big difference from saying one then and studying how the game/frames work and putting it to the test.

Bias/ego wolf main that thinks he can't lose to a Peach cause he has played thoses that played him basic. I can do the same thing, you sure you wanna start this here?

castorpollux · Feb 20, 2010

Dark.Pch said:
No he can't.

Dark peach. If you played against my peach camp, you would lose, cry about it, and then write a blog about how you are going to quit because peach can't do **** against cheap tactics.

Dark.Pch · Feb 20, 2010

castorpollux said:
Dark peach. If you played against my peach camp, you would lose, cry about it, and then write a blog about how you are going to quit because peach can't do **** against cheap tactics.

And how is this adding to the topic of this thread and avoiding nonsense and useless fights like this? try to show off and sound funny?

And I have been camped to no end with wolf. And dealt with that crap. Try me.

castorpollux · Feb 20, 2010

lol you haven't seen my camp. no other wolf does it either... i can promise you that.

oh and xzax tells me he beat you in a money match
get *****

Dark.Pch · Feb 20, 2010

castorpollux said:
lol you haven't seen my camp. no other wolf does it either... i can promise you that.

oh and xzax tells me he beat you in a money match
get *****

I never heard of a nobody like you to begin with. And I Can promise YOU, that your camping won't mean a damm thing to me with that typical simple mind you have of Peach and the OMGF camping that wolf has on her.

What I hear from you and these other wolfs is post on you boys gettint on me. You said this and that about the match up, I correct you boys with options and even frame data. And ow do you defend yourselfs to prove that you are right? You wann get on me and make stupid post like this. So you can use the typical "lol" phrase of the internet all you want. I have yet to crack a smile.

And Xzax must be a BSter like you. Cause I have never MM him. Only time I played his wolf was in a crew battle in december. we both started with three stocks and I won. So Idk what games you wolf players are coming up with. So Idk who is getting ***** here but it is not me. The world of brawl and the internet. filled with simple minded people.

I'm not gonna fight with any of you wolf players here. So far you have not stated anything towards a good discussion on the match up. Just stupid post like that and then trying to get at me. Which you are seriously failing at. So keep up the BS and I will start reporting post. Idk even know why the hell you are in here. I'm not saying anything to you anymore. Keep this up and I'm just reporting. You wanna show off and sound funny on the internet to seem tuff and one with the crowd, you direct that crap to me in a MM and leats see if you be talking like that when I win. Done.

Now with that said, back to the reason this topic was made. I am not gonna deal with anyones BS in here or fight with them. Get to the point.

Razmakazi · Feb 20, 2010

ya'll need to quit.

even you Choice, lool.

Corrupted · Feb 20, 2010

Lol @ camping with wolf. That blaster travels so slow its ridiculous. Plus the fact we can glide toss OoS so just stop with the whole wolf camping thing.

rvkevin · Feb 20, 2010

Corrupted said:
Lol @ camping with wolf. That blaster travels so slow its ridiculous. Plus the fact we can glide toss OoS so just stop with the whole wolf camping thing.

You don't need a good projectile to camp...look at Wario, he can get the lead and run away for the remainder of the match (and poke for damage) because of his amazing aerial speed, Wolf can do the same limiting your approach with Blaster, and escaping with Jumpshine and spacing with his aerials that makes it nearly impossible to get close to him while he's on the ground. With that being said, Peach may benefit more from stage selection.

@DrkPch: Out of all the Wolf's I have played against, "castorpollux" is the only Wolf that knows how to camp. Some of the stuff you said is kind of irrelevant about Peach Dairing Wolf's shield, Jumpshine would ruin most if not all of your aerial approaches.

Sliq · Feb 20, 2010

I just want to say my Wolf is not very good. It's mediocre at best. I do appreciate the love though.

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