Wario's Week 29 Matchup Discussion: PKMN Trainer

This week, multi-character week.


Pokémon Trainer


Good discussion!!




WARNING:

There are 2 models to vote here:

Squirtle: xx - yy
Ivysaur: xx -yy
Charizard: xx - yy

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On this model i'll take the average from the votes and take the final decision as whole and will put it on the matchup thread, in case you didn't like this one try this model:

Pokémon Trainer: xx - yy

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This is the usual model so there is nothing new to worry about. The choice of any of the models are free so, if you wanna vote using the 1st model go on, if you prefer to use the 2nd feel free to.

Pokemon Trainer: 6-4 in Wario's favor

All of the pokemon are relatively good against Wario, the problem is killing him. Squirtle is probably the biggers threat of the 3, followed by Charizard. Squirtle is very fast in the air, and basically most of his aerials beat most of your aerials. The problem is, he has a really hard time killing Wario unless he gets in a lucky Usmash, or Dthrow at like 160%. Fair, bair, and uair only take you so far in life.

Charizard's Rock Smash is scary, but you can just approach from above and behind, and be relatively safe from the flying rubble.

The only pokemon out of the 3 with a guaranteed grab release on grab is Ivysaur, and I don't know if any of the moves can be done to you, Viviff T. Great (whom I play often in person) doesn't really grab release me ever. He doesn't need to.

Pwneroni said:

Pokemon Trainer: 6-4 in Wario's favor

All of the pokemon are relatively good against Wario, the problem is killing him. Squirtle is probably the biggers threat of the 3, followed by Charizard. Squirtle is very fast in the air, and basically most of his aerials beat most of your aerials. The problem is, he has a really hard time killing Wario unless he gets in a lucky Usmash, or Dthrow at like 160%. Fair, bair, and uair only take you so far in life.

Charizard's Rock Smash is scary, but you can just approach from above and behind, and be relatively safe from the flying rubble.

The only pokemon out of the 3 with a guaranteed grab release on grab is Ivysaur, and I don't know if any of the moves can be done to you, Viviff T. Great (whom I play often in person) doesn't really grab release me ever. He doesn't need to.

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Can't you GR > Waft squirttle ?

AlMoStLeGeNdArY said:

Can't you GR > Waft squirttle ?

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Only on the ledge, which is easy to do, since Wario can grab release Squirtle to the ledge anyways.

Wario's probably a 60:40 on the whole. Squirtle can keep up with Wario, but he has trouble KOing Wario, and Wario doesn't have much trouble killing Squirtle, unless your Squirtle just so happens to have ridiculous DI. Charizard has no problem killing Wario, but Wario will combo Charizard easily if Charizard is above him. Using Ivysaur is suicide against Wario.

Best of all for Wario mains, the only Pokemon that has a guaranteed move against Wario (not on the edge) is Ivysaur, who has upair.

In terms of who's the best in this MU, it's Squirtle > Charizard >>>>>>>>Ivysaur.

I think calling it only a 60:40 is fairly generous to the PTs

why would you only be able to waft squirtle at the ledge?

does he have to drop below the stage or something? lol

PhantomX said:

I think calling it only a 60:40 is fairly generous to the PTs

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I think 70:30's a bit too harsh, but 60:40 is still relatively low...65:35 maybe?

I mean, Wario really shouldn't worry about PT. Our best Pokemon is Squirtle, and Wario is better in the air than Squirtle.

@toobusy--Pretty sure Squirtle can just shield it if you try a GR onstage.

Zigsta said:

I think 70:30's a bit too harsh, but 60:40 is still relatively low...65:35 maybe?

I mean, Wario really shouldn't worry about PT. Our best Pokemon is Squirtle, and Wario is better in the air than Squirtle.

@toobusy--Pretty sure Squirtle can just shield it if you try a GR onstage.

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ahh ok lol

ill test this later lol

Yeah, if Squirtle is released offstage, he dips a bit below stage level, giving you just enough time to get out there and waft him. I believe the same can be done to Lucas/Ness/Sheik or something (I think someone mentioned it but I forgot exactly which character it was and who said it).

As Reflex kindly informed me mid-match at LAST 4, Wario can GR Squirtle into guaranteed...dash attack. I guess I should take his word for it?

Yeah. I discovered that, actually. It's just the weak hitbox of dash attack though, so only do it for the epic lulz XD

Well,

Squirtle is pretty fast in the ari btw he ain't got faster aerials and priority as we got so we can abuse from him easier from him than he does. Squirtle is a good juggler but he lack a lot of killing potential and safe killing options so this is really good for Wario which is a bait master. His gimpable and trashy recovery is so easy to deal with and if you land a fart on him at 70's near the ledge its a guaranteed stock loss. Use bite on his aerials, you are beating almost all of them with it, watchout for his jab it's pretty fast and annoying so shield it all then do everything you want (FSmash, grab, OoS option), there are some Shell (sideB) shenanigans that can easily be avoided but try to predict it but almost all of the squirtles try to USmash you out of it.

Ivysaur is pretty stupid and I like to deal with him like I deal with Olimars. A good relentless pressure and abusing from him in the air will make it easier to take out your opponents stock. Watch out for his land spacing with leaves, pivots and retreated Nairs which are annoying, if he starts to spam Nair play OoS and you should do fine associating this with gimps and edgehogs.

Charizard is probably the most annoying of them but he is not hard to deal with it at all, all you have to worry here is with then **** rock which racks great damage and punishes airdodges and spotdodges. He is easily abused in the air with Dair Uair and Fairs so make sure to abuse from it. Oh, and watch out for their pivot grab, I think is the best non-tether pivoit grab in the game. I like to save Bair on this matchup to KO him with ledge drop > Sweetspot Bair but its not really necessary you can just powershield a rock then FSmash or fart while he is in the air.

Overall: 65-35

80-20 Wario PT is bad Wario is good GR > Waft Squirttle Gimp City on Ivysaur and Combo the **** out of Charizard.

65-35 seems a lot more accurate than 80-20, lol.

PhantomX said:

65-35 seems a lot more accurate than 80-20, lol.

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LoL probably but who cares about accuracy? Let's just big up our own character. 70-30 Wario won't go lower than that.

AlMoStLeGeNdArY said:

LoL probably but who cares about accuracy? Let's just big up our own character. 70-30 Wario won't go lower than that.

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What.

The ****.

Lets not think that pokemon trainer is worthless now with the '70-30' its 60-40 at most. squirtle ***** us, Charizard can outspace us. Ivy can do serious damage and somewhat camp us.

I say 65-35, the PT player has to have a **** load of gimmicks to beat us but once you catch on, game over. Squirtle is the only problem but with this GR to waft off stage, that will help a lot.

Another thing to note, Charizard has a ridiculously hard time landing so yeah we **** him there to. I know because I second PT and I have a ****load of trouble landing sometimes.

Squirtle, the main pokemon that will be used, only has a couple gimmicks

hydrograb and hydroplane (a jump cancelled usmash that goes really far)

they'll usually only use hydroplaning as a kill move from far away so just be aware of it when they are at a distance


As far as I know charizard and ivy don't really have any gimmicks
Just DI Ivy's Bulletseed left/right, it's super predictable

AlMoStLeGeNdArY said:

LoL probably but who cares about accuracy? Let's just big up our own character. 70-30 Wario won't go lower than that.

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That's what every other subforum does... I'd like to think we're above that.

Yeah that's what I say, but i thin legendary was being sarcastic.

dynomite said:

Lets not think that pokemon trainer is worthless now with the '70-30' its 60-40 at most. squirtle ***** us, Charizard can outspace us. Ivy can do serious damage and somewhat camp us.

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Squirttle ***** us????

@ PX gotta even the playing field.

Squirtle doesn't **** Wario at all.

@Gichan--Yeah, Charizard doesn't like it when people are below him.

We are done.

65-35 since it's common sense and Zigsta supports it too.

Thanks Zigs ;*

@Almost

Do you really think I'm keeping up with this project only to throw away some numbers and say our character is UBER? lol you must be joking.