This has been bought up a few times but we've never looked into it.
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In Shield Smash DI
- Thread starter Vyse
- Start date
It works just like normal SDI, except you do so while in shieldlag and you can't SDI upward (for obvious reasons). Oh, and you can't SDI from a powershield, since powershielding negates shieldlag.
I wonder if this could work as a replacement to Melee's light shield edgehogging?
tekkie
Smash Master
sounds neat
J4pu
Smash Champion
just to clarify, you mean that the shieldlag from PS'ing isn't able to be used for this right? not that PS'ing has no shieldlag, because iirc, that's all it has.
if not someone needs to explain shieldlag (which I'm assuming means shield-hit-lag and not the lag it takes to drop shield or any such thing) to me
solecalibur
Smash Master
Get hit by halberd's charged gun while sheilding and Shield smash DI (it works), Ive been using it every so often during matches
J4pu
Smash Champion
I think this is why it's advised to only use the Cstick to do it
Limeee
Smash Champion
ugh, if this is real, it could make brawl even more campier. Please don't look into it, for the sake of keeping our game alive.
People will just sit in their shields all day and punish everything
People will just sit in their shields all day and punish everything
theunabletable
Smash Lord
I'm pretty sure there's shieldlag on power shielding. It might be reduced by I'm sure that there's still shieldstun.
Had anyone else seen that Brawl- video that showed Ganon using that crazy warlock punch and getting it powershielded, which caused him to fly back and die, but because of the insane amount of shield stun he could come back to life, jump back down, and follow up while the opponent was still in shield stun?
J4pu
Smash Champion
really? then i have no idea
@table, shield stun and shield lag are different things, although at the moment I'm kind of confused on what they are exactly so I can't explain
@table, shield stun and shield lag are different things, although at the moment I'm kind of confused on what they are exactly so I can't explain
theunabletable
Smash Lord
^Ohhh yeah, now I remember.
Yeah... there's no shield hitlag on power shield.
Sorry, my mistake
Yeah... there's no shield hitlag on power shield.
Sorry, my mistake
Shieldlag is identical to hitlag, except you're in a shield when it happens. Your animation is literally frozen, you can SDI, and you can't buffer anything. Shieldstun is when you're in shield, after shield damage is applied, and it wavers. You can't SDI, or perform any actions for that matter, but you can buffer inputs. I suppose there is a little bit of shieldlag from powershielding, but it's severely reduced. It may not even be "true" shield lag, just like I don't treat Marth's tippers or Zelda's Lightning Heels as "true" hitlag..
The best example of shieldstun, which is not affected by powershielding, is in this Brawl- clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6P2oxe_szo#t=3m25s
The best example of shieldstun, which is not affected by powershielding, is in this Brawl- clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6P2oxe_szo#t=3m25s
J4pu
Smash Champion
I guess i had the effects of PS'ing mixed up then, I always thought it caused massive hitlag and little/no shieldstun (what the shielder feels, refer to melee for an actually visible example) while preserving the shield-hit-stun (what the attacker gets)
so what it really does then is uhhh, increase shieldstun time and increased shield-hit-stun time by a lot? and diminish the push by a lot
is that right?
so what it really does then is uhhh, increase shieldstun time and increased shield-hit-stun time by a lot? and diminish the push by a lot
is that right?
theunabletable
Smash Lord
@Ankoku: Yeah I just remember that they're unrelated when I saw Snake- get his tilts power shielded. He stays in hitlag, while the opponent gets a free follow up because of the insane hitlag.
J4pu
Smash Champion
I am so very very confused
I don't even know what you're talking about any more, lol. There's hitstun, hitlag, shieldstun, and shieldlag.
Shielding results in normal shieldlag, followed by sliding while in shieldstun.
Powershielding results in reduced shieldlag, followed by reduced sliding while in shieldstun.
There is no difference for the attacker in terms of hitlag. Hitlag is applied whether the attack hits a person or a shield, and it is equal to the person hit in number of frames, but greater than the number of frames of shieldstun, even normally.
Shieldlag and shieldstun are directly based on the amount of damage that was shielded. Brawl- Ganondorf's Warlock Punch deals 666%, so the effects are hugely exaggerated.
Shielding results in normal shieldlag, followed by sliding while in shieldstun.
Powershielding results in reduced shieldlag, followed by reduced sliding while in shieldstun.
There is no difference for the attacker in terms of hitlag. Hitlag is applied whether the attack hits a person or a shield, and it is equal to the person hit in number of frames, but greater than the number of frames of shieldstun, even normally.
Shieldlag and shieldstun are directly based on the amount of damage that was shielded. Brawl- Ganondorf's Warlock Punch deals 666%, so the effects are hugely exaggerated.
J4pu
Smash Champion
ok thanks for clearing up my misunderstanding of these mechanics, I have no idea where I pulled those terms from if they don't exist.
from what you said it sounds like the shielder will be stuck in shield less time when they powershield an attack as opposed to shielding it normally, but powershielding things always seems to me to have some kind of increased lag time during it's special animation type thing (which is what I always thought described shieldlag).
am i just wrong?
_Keno_
Smash Lord
I believe the first one refers to the character that is powershielding, while the second refers to the person who is powershielded.
I think so, yeah. I noticed no increased lag, but the fact that the "CLANG!" sound lasts longer might cause you to incorrectly perceive a longer shieldlag time.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Isn't there a video somewhere of MK doing this to ICs blizzard?
A CPU MK, no less.
theunabletable
Smash Lord
I was talking about Snake being stuck in hitlag. The attacker experiences hitlag, but not the power-shielder. But looking at what I said, I was being kinda vague and unclear
EDIT: Ninja'd...
And that is what I get for leaving this tab open for like 2 hours while doing other things and responding just now...
Jonas
Smash Champion
You forget Brawl's auto sweetspot. The person who recovers doesn't necessarily hit someone who stands on the ledge, and he grabs the ledge too quickly
Ah, this is trueYou forget Brawl's auto sweetspot. The person who recovers doesn't necessarily hit someone who stands on the ledge, and he grabs the ledge too quickly
Actually, both Marth's tippers and Zelda's Lightning Kicks have true hitlag in all sense of the word.
However, your ability to SDI during that hitlag is a whopping 0. :\
Think Zelda's Usmash with its hard to SDI hits (0.1), or DK's Up B aerial with its really really ridiculously easy to SDI hits (2.3 iirc).
Still, I find it funny how we're just now paying attention to this, considering that it's been around since Smash 64 (where it was pretty dang important).
☆_Mutha-Foxin GangstaKirby_☆
Banned via Warnings
the only use i have honestly found for SSDI is to punish rapidfire type attacks like triple jab/flamebreath/pits ayayaya
idk its hard to time it right to not roll on everything else.... i guess it could prevent being forced off the ledge by hard hits though maybe
idk its hard to time it right to not roll on everything else.... i guess it could prevent being forced off the ledge by hard hits though maybe
Midnight Shadows
Smash Cadet
Would it be possible to shieldgrab somebody from a longer distance than usual by ISSDIng into the attack before grabbing? On a multi hit I mean, like G&W's nair and MK's fair.
J4pu
Smash Champion
would it be possible? depends on a number of other factors than how close you are but this could effectively move you closer if done correctly.
to see for yourself choose Ike on one controller and olimar on the other, throw all non-purple pikmin off the edge, get at least one purple pikmin.
Now move olimar as close as possible to Ike shield one of Ike's Fsmashes normally, after being fully pushed, drop shield and attempt to grab, you can't.
If you correctly ISSDI the Fsmash you can grab afterwards.
It was pretty difficult for me to get multiple inputs in without either spot-dodging (QCDI on Astick rolling downward) or grabbing (also using Cstick)
the physics should be the same for multihit attacks
to see for yourself choose Ike on one controller and olimar on the other, throw all non-purple pikmin off the edge, get at least one purple pikmin.
Now move olimar as close as possible to Ike shield one of Ike's Fsmashes normally, after being fully pushed, drop shield and attempt to grab, you can't.
If you correctly ISSDI the Fsmash you can grab afterwards.
It was pretty difficult for me to get multiple inputs in without either spot-dodging (QCDI on Astick rolling downward) or grabbing (also using Cstick)
the physics should be the same for multihit attacks
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2005
- Messages
- 8,189
This is all Gkirbz discovery. He discovered this. The applications are 3 things in particular from what we have seen.
1. Shield vs Flamebreath you can SSDI out of way *** quick and punish.
2. AYAYAYAYA(Pit's sideB) same thing.
3. Blizzard. It ***** vs Blizzard.
1. Shield vs Flamebreath you can SSDI out of way *** quick and punish.
2. AYAYAYAYA(Pit's sideB) same thing.
3. Blizzard. It ***** vs Blizzard.
Remzi
formerly VaBengal
Is this worth doing after a regular hit to get better positioning? Or a single slide really minuscule?
J4pu
Smash Champion
it can be noticeable if you do it right but it won't be like OMFG LUIGI WAVEDASH SDI
try it out for yourself using the 2 characters I advised above.
maybe my reflexes are slow but id have a hard time doing it in-game vs the vast majority of single hit moves
try it out for yourself using the 2 characters I advised above.
maybe my reflexes are slow but id have a hard time doing it in-game vs the vast majority of single hit moves
TP
Smash Master
But... everyone already knew about this...
Midnight Shadows
Smash Cadet
Yeah, I only mentioned multi hits though because you could probably get more SDI inputs out of them since they hit you more. Thanks though, I'll try to see what I can grab.
BBQ°
Smash Champion
Yes and Yes. Shield smash DI works the same as normal smash DI, in that you can input your smash DI when you get hit. It's just extremely hard to input multiple directions for DI when you get hit in shield.
You can't roll/spotdodge when you're in hitlag. If you roll or spotdodge then you timed it too late.
leffen
Smash Champion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8bdsb7sE6A
it is also used in melee to avoid multi shine shield pressure.
incredibly old, even cpus in both melee and brawl do this...
it is also used in melee to avoid multi shine shield pressure.
incredibly old, even cpus in both melee and brawl do this...
B_J_
Smash Cadet
yet no one uses it even though it has practical uses....
demonictoonlink
Smash Master
I hate to be the guy who asks for a demonstration video...
But I am.
I watched all those vids posted in this thread, but if this really is something so applicable, someone who can actually do it should make a vid.
I can barely SDI, so :/
But I am.
I watched all those vids posted in this thread, but if this really is something so applicable, someone who can actually do it should make a vid.
I can barely SDI, so :/
∫unk
Smash Master
Works best with ddd and any predictable multiple hit attack