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Hyper_Ridley

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 21, 2007
Messages
2,289
Location
Hippo Island
Well, while I'd like Gengar to have a new unique playstyle, I just don't know how well these cool ideas would fit into Brawl... Gengar as a status affecting player just seems cheap to me... (For the same reason why my cousin spamming Pikachu's Down B is annoying as hell...)
Doesn't seem any cheaper to me than being 0-death'd by Melee Fox, or wall-of-pained by Melee Jiggs, Or being grenade-camped by Snake, or being planked by MK
(there's another "Wario for you JOE, why is Meta Knight for the ultimate stall tactic instead of his mach-speed sword?)
Heck, it feels really tame in comparison to all the other abuses seen in Brawl.

I do see where you're coming from, in that a character based on status effects has never been done in Smash and can be hard to picture. However, at the same time we won't know how balanced it will be until it's actually tested. I'm sure Iron Tager's magnetism stuff in Blazblue feels cheep to a lot of people at first glace, but then he's actually bottom tier in the first game (he's good in the second game but still nowhere near broken).



...In other news, I apologize for not having anything new to show for Weavile's moveset for a while. School's been killing me. Hopefully I'll have the throws written up over the weekend. :3
And maybe an alternate neutral special in case Pursuit doesn't work
 

leafbarrett

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
1,388
Location
USA
Rawr ;-; Who do I talk to to start on a Scizor moveset? ;-; I don't care if someone's already working on it or not, I REALLY wanna make a Scizor moveset ;~;
 

leafbarrett

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
1,388
Location
USA
O.O Holy crap, I've already got material for nearly 30 animations and I haven't even done anything yet!
Dudes!!! How do I make a character without the ability to glide BE ABLE TO GLIDE?!?!?
I don't know... I think it has something to do with "If Jump Button Held, Set Character Momentum" but I've never done it before. I might need to with Scizor, though.
EDIT: Or I could just stick him on Metaknight. Now what to do about that cape...?
EDIT2: Okay, that's a no-go. No gliding, even through the Up-B. Other than that, it's like it was meant to be! There's virtually no problems at all!
 

Omniscient X

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Messages
326
Wait so you know how to make a glide attack LeafBarret?

Introducing the newcomer to Brawl...Salamence!!

His New Moveset:

Size: 9/10
Salamence is a true dragon and he’s not lacking in the size department he even approaches Tyranitar in size, well sort of.
Weight: 7/10
Salamence’s wings give him an unusual floaty property while jumping (much like toon link) but although he’s fast he’s also heavy enough where he’s hard to kill, kind of like charizard.
Walk: 4/10
He is a proud pokemon and doesn’t mind just taking a slow stroll across the battlefield to intimidate opponents.
Run: 9/10
incredibly fast. Nearly as fast as Sonic, as he is the fastest flying pokemon he should also have a fast dash speed, seeing as he flies instead of actually running.
Power: 9.5/10
Salamence, like Tyranitar, is a pseudo-legendary and is equip with truly awesome power, though not quiet as extreme as Tyranitar.
Attack Speed: 6/10
Salamence is actually quiet fast for most of his moves, and the ones that aren’t make up for it in sheer power.
Range:10/10
Salamence uses his size and Dragon attribute attacks like Delta Blast to gain lots of range.
Priority:10/10
Salamence has his Dragon-Type which has effects like flame and energy to lots of his attacks and some moves can even stop Tyranitar, something even summons like Suicune can’t do!
1st Jump:6/10
His legs are too small to give him much lift but an ok jump overall.
2nd Jump:9/10
Much better than the first jump his powerful wings propel him into the air.
3rd Jump:9/10
Identical to the 2nd jump
4th Jump:10/10
In preparation to glide this gives Salamence a huge amount of lift and is great for recovery.
Recovery: 10/10
He has great aerial jumps and an awesome recovery move.
Fall Speed: 3/10
Salamence’s wings give him an edge in the air allowing him to stay airborne much longer and perform more combos.
Air Speed:10/10
Incredibly fast, he can almost outpace a sonic on the ground while he’s in the air (note that he can while he glides!)
Crouch: 1/10
Horrible doesn’t really do anything at all.

Hover: No
Crawl: No
Wall Jump: No
Glide: Yes

Moveset:​

Specials:

Neutral Special: Dragon’s Rage​
One of Salamence’s best projectiles and most frequent ranged moves, though it must be charged.
Dragon’s Rage is a charged attack that must be all the way charged to work although the charge only takes around 1.5 seconds. Salamence rears his neck and charges Dragon-Type energy seen as fire spouting from his mouth. Once it is fully charged though it becomes a force to be reckoned with. Salamence spews a mighty ball of energy (Rayquaza’s Attack) which deals 15% damage and 1.5 times the knockback of a fully charged Charge Shot!!
Dragon’s Rage is a great move to save until you have your foe on the run, then you can take to the air and glide to get linear with them and fire the ball of energy to finish off opponents with higher damage. Also a word of caution, attempting to use it without charge will result in you losing your charge and returning to Salamence’s idle stance. In addition, the moves charge can only be held once it is fully completed, if you roll/shield out of the charge it will not retain its charge. Although it takes time to charge and you must do it in a single attempt, Dragon’s Rage has almost unmatched priority that most moves cannot cancel out, not even summoned pokemon’s moves!

Side Special: Flamethrower​
Salamence’s staple move in the anime reoccurs in Brawl! This could be considered Salamence’s best attack except that it cannot be spammed due to ending lag.
Salamence crouches charging massive amounts of fire in his mouth then he lunges forward and unleashes a horizontal stream of flame!! The effect for this attack is that of entei’s Fire Spin turned on its side giving it awesome range and a really cool look. Any opponent caught in the stream will be dealt 4% fire hitlag damage until the attack ends with a punishing 10% fire damage and powerful knockback.
Although it has great priority as well the stream only lasts for about roughly 1.5 to maybe 2 seconds and Salamence is vulnerable to attacks during this time. Also a footnote, that although Flamethrower has great priority and power and can cancel out a lot of attacks, it cannot stand against the incredible power of Tyranitar’s Hyper Beam so don’t even try that!

Up Special: Fly​
Salamence gains access to limited flight like Pit does except for a shorter period of time although Salamence moves much faster side-to-side and downwards, he cannot climb as fast. However, unlike Pit if he is knocked out of Fly he can use the move again, though at the end he will not go into a helpless state and instead still has access to aerial attacks and dodges.
If the move is started on the ground Salamence will not fly directly up like Pit would but he will move in a forward diagonal motion ascending quickly into the sky. This allows Salamence to outrun and dodge projectiles fired at his backside quickly and then wheel around and take advantage of enemy ending lag by flying toward the opponent to open up opportunities to use moves like Flamethower and Blazing Dragon to punish slow opponents.

Down Special: Blazing Dragon​
A move not technically real but it is created by utilizing Salamence’s ability to use Double-Edge, Dragon-Type attacks and Flamethrower. Salamence starts in a crouched kind of stance, after about 15 frames Salamence exhales fire which surrounds him and encases him in a sphere of fire. You can hold the attack here and just keep him in one spot with the sphere of fire around him. It doesn’t charge but you can hold it to wait for the opponent and negate the startup lag of just taping down-B. The there is a hitbox surrounding the fire which will knock opponents forward in front of Salamence so that he can attack them. When the B button is released you will shoot forward in a flying animation covered in flames. The attack can do 3% damage during the “charge” period and the charging attack does 10% damage and moderate KB as well as provide invincibility frames for the first 15 frames of the actual attack.

The charge travels at a speed roughly equivalent to Captain Falcons kick, however when it makes contact it will slow down to about MK’s Drill Rush speed and then pick up speed again after the collision. Salamence will go about 75% the length of final destination before he stops and the move will not stop at ledges and Salamence will fall off. Although he will fall off, like Captain Falcon, he will not enter a helpless state and can use Fly to recover and follow up with an attack. The flame that surrounds him for the completion of the attack will negate all attacks allowing him to tunnel through most defenses except for shields and Pit’s Mirror Shield.

When the attack is used in the air it gains the properties of a stall-then-fall attack except for a few major differences. Just as Salamence can hold the fire sphere charge on the ground he can also do so in the air. Salamence will curl up into a pseudo-ball-like position and start and continuously exhale fire from his mouth, which will surround him in a sphere of fire like before. He can stay in this position and maintain the fire ball which will negate most projectiles, and when he lands he will negate most landing lag. Where as if the B button is released before you hit the ground you will dive toward the ground enveloped in flames like on the ground and you will slam into the ground generating a small wave of flames followed by a minor shockwave with a minor push effect. The aerial version always spikes even when the B button is held and causes 3% damage during the held period. As for during the dive, you will do 13% damage to opponents and a meteor smash, sending foes crashing downward. It should be noted that you can tunnel through projectiles like before however some very powerful Kb may take minor influence over the trajectory of the dive and cause Salamence to alter his course (pushing him horizontally). Also after about a second of the moves duration, as Salamence would continue the move until he hits the ground of Self-Destructs, you can cancel the move into Fly and recover, though you still retain a portion of the vertical momentum. During the dive you move as fast as Sonic’s D-Air.
This move can be used to camp and wait for falling opponents and punish juggler’s who give Salamence enough air to perform the move. It can effectively crush juggler’s strategies and can tunnel through projectile-based strategies as well.

Normal Moves:

Neutral Combo: Wing Whirlwind

Strikes with both wings followed by a rather laggy wing flap that produces wing sufficiently powerful enough to blow enemies away at least a battlefield platform (it has about the range of Pit’s up special Wings of Icarcus’s beginning “ring”)

Dash Attack: Shoot Through
Salamence’s dash speed increases by 50% for a few brief frames and he becomes heated up by fire charged in his body. His whole body is a hitbox that deals 5% fire damage and moderate vertical KB while his head is the sweetspot that does 7% fire damage with decently strong vertical KB.

Forward Tilt: Dragonbreath
Salamence quickly swings his head around in a quick arc then lunges forward and spouts a blast of air (about double the range of Charizard’s Flamethrower, though in only last for about 20-30 frames) that deals moderate KB and around 6% damage.

Upwards Tilt: Dragon Roar

Salamence lets loose a vicious roar creating sonic waves that can be seen! The roar’s range is about 1.5 stage builder blocks radius from Salamence’s mouth and the only other hitboxes are on Salamence himself. The KB of this attack is great however there’s no damage unless you’re touching Salamence where you will suffer 3% damage and lots of hitlag. This attack is great for starting a combo and setting up for a smash attack.

Downward Tilt: Twister

Salamence rears and flaps his wings swirling dragon-energy into the air creating a tornado (I’ll use meta knight’s Neutral Special effect for this) the tornado is about twice the size of MK’s tornado and has a vacuum effect for the majority of the attack dealing about 4% damage a second and using the suction to restrain foes inside the tornado. The final hits of the attack have no damage but great push effect and can send foes flying, though the hitbox is basically only half the size of the twister. The great thing about this attack is that it can cancel out nearly all projectiles and set off explosives as the twister does fire damage.

Ledge Attack: Slash
Salamence heaves himself over the edge and swipes quickly with one foreleg dealing 6% damage and moderate KB.

Ledge Attack over 100%: Tail Whip
Salamence brings himself up slower than his other ledge attack and swings with his heavy tail dealing 10% damage and great KB. Don’t use this against and edgehog who will just see it coming, dodge and then slam you back off the stage possibly (but unlikely) to your doom.

Floor Attack: Crunch
Salamence bites on either side of him dealing 8% damage and moderate KB.

Floor Attack over 100%: Tail Sweep
Salamence spins with his tail outstretched tripping opponents and dealing 5% damage with strong horizontal KB.

Aerial attacks:​

Neutral Aerial: Overheat
Salamence heats up its body causing it to glow a faint red and give of medium sized flames. Salamence’s body does 5% and moderate KB and the flames do 7% but weak KB. During the brief frames where Salamence is aflame he gains invincibility frames.

Forward Aerial: Dragon Burst
Salamence lets loose a stream of dragon fire and wind resulting in a blast-like fan of bluish flames with a moderate range but some ending lag before Salamence can dodge again. Salamence’s chest area does 2% damage and weak KB, the beginning of the flames (near the mouth) does 8% damage and moderate KB, and the middle and end of the flames do 5% damage and stronger KB. All hitboxes KB is aimed forward. This is one of Salamence’s best finishers in aerial combat and can greatly aid in an approach, especially when an opponent attempts to intercept you. The flames can cancel out projectiles and still hit the opponent.

Backward Aerial: Tail Slam
Salamence swings his tail behind him in an arc top to bottom. The tail does 1% damage on startup with hitlag and then 3% on the beginning of the swing and moderate backwards knockback and 6% during the middle to the end of the swing and always spikes the opponent.

Upwards Aerial: Steam Blast
Time to unveil Salamence’s greatest secret…he can learn Hydro Pump! He can combine this with Dragon and Fire type attacks to create powerful combination attacks involving steam. We see this in the TCG incarnations as well, so he uses a weak version of Hydro Pump and a Fire attack to quickly exhale a burst of steam. The steam only does damage at his mouth where it is the hottest (8% damage) the rest of the steam is the wind effect and has strong push effect the sends opponents towards the heavens. This move can quickly be followed up with fly and an Overheat, once the opponent is past the blast line, for a Star KO.

Downwards Aerial: Fire Stream
Salamence rears (in the air?) and aims downward, a stream of flames erupting from Salamence’s mouth. The stream takes a few frames to fully expand into the wide stream which is about the size of 3 of Bowser’s Fire Breaths stacked on each other. The mouth and near flames spikes the opponent with 9% damage while the midst of the flames does diagonal KB and 11% damage and the ends of the flames simply do hitlag and 8% damage. Overall this can be Salamence’s most damaging aerial attack.

Glide Attack: Dragon Claw
Salamence swipes with one foreleg dealing 9% damage and great vertical KB, the move can be used to juggle the foe and the tail has an extra hitbox that can spike opponents who just dodged the swipe but not the rest of Salamence.

Grab and Throws:​

Grab: Chomp
Salamence lunges forward snapping with his jaws. Slightly more range than Charizard’s grab, it is comparable to King Dedede’s grab.

Pummel: Fire Fang
Burns the foe trapped in Salamence’s jaws with 4% damage.

Forward Throw: Toss
Salamence bows his head for an instant, with the opponent clutched in his jaws and then flips his neck and head tossing the opponent with 6% damage and moderate diagonal KB.

Backward Throw: Fling
Salamence violently swings his head behind him flinging the opponent with surprisingly strong horizontal KB but just 3% damage.

Upward Throw: Jet Propulsion
Salamence lifts his head skyward then unleashes a small burst of steam propelling the opponent with moderate vertical KB and 5% damage.

Downward Throw: Point-Blank
Salamence lays the opponent on the ground and then hits them with a point blank Dragonbreath causing no damage but strong horizontal KB and the opponent is lying down. This move can kill on ice floors when used correctly.

Smash Attacks:​

Forward Smash: Delta Blast
One of Salamence’s best kill moves but for a smash it lacks in damage. Salamence winds up and will charge in the wind up animation. Then he will swing his head in a quick upwards arc until he’s aimed forward. He will unleash a stream of fire with swirling dragon energy around it.

The blast is affected by the charge with no charge it will go about 2.5 stage builder blocks long near the mouth will do 11% damage with moderate forward KB and most of the flame will do 6% damage and strong KB except for near the end. Near the end of the blast is the sweetspot with 5% damage but incredible forward KB.

Although without a charge it’s still a force to be reckoned with, at full charge it can cause absolute destruction. The blast stream gets wider and goes 4.5 stage builder blocks! The mouth hitbox does 15% damage and moderate to strong forward KB, the majority of the flames does 10% damage and quiet strong KB and near the end does 9% damage and incredible forward KB. The force is enough to KO Bowser at low percentages relatively close to the edge!

Upward Smash: Steam Twister
An arguably unorthodox move for Salamence, this move is from the TCG Salamence incarnation and involves him once again combining Hydro Pump and Flamethrower. The move starts with him going into a pseudo-crouch (this is where he’ll charge if the smash is charged) then he’ll rear up and let loose a spiraling blast of steam from his gaping mouth. The steam goes incredibly high even uncharged it goes a little higher than the altitude of an average 1st jump! The twister of steam only increases in size with charge becoming wider and goes .5 times higher than before!

However, what the move attains in range it lacks in damage the only part of the tornado that does any damage, besides Salamence’s body which does 1% damage with weak KB, is near the mouth of Salamence where the steam is hottest dealing 13% damage with moderate upwards KB. However, although the move has weak damage it’s killing potential is truly amazing or such an odd move because the rest of the tornado, aside from near the end at the highest point, has really strong vertical KB and the tip has incredibly KB.

The attack works cumulatively from bottom upwards, the opponent usually starts on the ground near Salamence and is then kicked into the midst of the tornado be the mouth hitbox and is flung upwards into the end of the twister sending the foe streaking towards the heavens. KB does not change for the charge although the hitboxes do get larger due to the size increase of the twister. One main attribute affected by the charge is the duration of the move which can go from 25 frames to nearly 50 frames! The move is most commonly used to fling opponents into the air allowing Salamence to take to the air and really go on the offensive!

Downward Smash: Volcanic Hurricane
Salamence starts in a reared position (the position for charging the smash) and will then spew fire while flap his wings twice while reared and then slam into the ground dealing a final powerful flap.

The flames are then taken by the wind creating a flaming gale that results in one of Salamence’s most balanced moves. The wind will go 2 stage builder blocks in both horizontal directions and during the first two flaps the wind deals 8% fire damage and trips any grounded opponents and will cause hitlag to airborne ones and the body of Salamence does 5% damage with weak KB, excluding the wings which do 10% damage and moderate KB. The only thing the charge of the smash effects is the final flap. Uncharged the flap will generate a gust of burning wind that will go 2.5 stage builder blocks in both directions and will do 10% damage with strong KB, the body still does 5% damage and weak KB except for the sweetspot of the move where Salamence actually slams his feet into the ground which will impale opponents the slam connects with. The wings do 13% damage and strong KB and the effectiveness of the move only increases with charge.

Salamence will generate a stronger wind from the final flap at a full charge that goes 3 stage builder blocks in both directions and goes farther up than the uncharged version. The wind does 15% damage and stronger KB, the hitbox for the feet slam is enlarged and the damage done by the wings is racked up to 17% with stronger KB as well. This smash isn’t a great kill move but like the d-tilt is decent at racking up damage, it is one of Salamence’s few grounded moves that can do so.

FINAL SMASH

Draco Meteor:
Salamence flies to the center of the stage dealing 7% damage and moderate KB to anybody in his way. Salamence will then proceed to unleash unreflectable flaming meteors from his body in all directions. The meteors go relatively slow but will break shield and will outlast a dodge due to the slower speed and large size.

The meteors will do 25% damage to anything they hit and massive KB as well. This is Salamence’s ultimate kill move equipped with damage, range, priority, massive projectiles and invincibility during the attack.

Playstyle: Turning up the Heat​
Salamence has incredible speed, priority and range as well as quiet a lot of killing power. However, his disadvantage is his inability to rack up a lot of damage to make a lot of his kill moves effective. Salamence makes up for this with his aerial speed and juggling capability.

The best strategy is an airborne one; once you start the match you have two major options. Option #1 you should take to the air and attempt to use aerial attacks to buffet the opponent and knock them into the air and then use fly and spike them with Tail Slam or Blazing Dragon. Then return to the ground and use attacks like Steam Twister and Shoot Through to knock the opponent back into the air. Continue this pattern to slowly but surely rack up damage on the opponent (a Twister every now and then isn’t a bad idea either) and once they get past about 100% spike them and retreat. Charge up Dragon’s Rage and wait outside of their projectile range (if they have one), otherwise just keep your distance. The wait for them to come closer and once they are at about 2 stage builder blocks away wait for them to attack. Then blast off a Dragon’s Rage into the attack and let its near-invincible priority take care of the rest. If it doesn’t kill them then tail them and follow up with a Flamethrower.

Option #2 is a projectile-based strategy where you begin by charging up Dragon’s Rage and keep your distance while continually pelting the foe with Flamethrowers and Dragon’s Rage to rack up damage. Use them in combination to prevent dodging from being effective. Once they get near 60-70% you can enter melee combat with Volcanic Hurricane, Twister, and Wing Whirlwind to rack up some damage at close range. Try not to take to many hits and if your feeling overwhelmed use Dragon Roar, Dragonbreath or even Blazing Dragon as a get-off-me move to put some distance between you and the opponent. Once they near 100% you can let loose with Steam Twister, Flamethrower, Dragon Claw, Blazing Dragon and possibly the most effective: Delta Blast to finally KO the opponent. This strategy keeps you from being overwhelmed by either projectile or melee based characters but a well balanced character such as fox can keep you on your toes.

Playing Against: Grounding the Dragon
Salamence is very fast in the air, possibly too fast to handle effectively so what do you do? You meteor smash the flying lizard attempting to attack you as a grounded opponent or take to the air to continue an attack!

The trick to beating Salamence is knowing when to swallow your pride and know that most of your attacks can’t beat his head on, and just dodge and roll to punish his laggy smash attacks ort dodge the projectile hailstorm he can unleash from a distance. You must keep the combat strictly melee using fast low-KB moves to rack up damage on Salamence and attempt to dodge his get-off-me moves to continue. However, if you’re knocked away and you see him use fly, get above and spike him back to earth. If you don’t meteor smash him before he exits your range (and trust me he will) you are in a hole. You must be ready for anything and dodge the powerful moves and clang with the weaker ones while biding your time waiting for him to use Dragon Claw, Blazing Dragon, Overheat or Flamethrower.

Learn to recognize the startup animations of these moves and jump when you see them and spike Salamence when you’re above him. The best place to be in relationship to Salamence is diagonally above and in front of him where he has no escape. Also, constantly jumping can effectively negate projectile-based onslaughts and help you stay at low damage which is the real key to beat Salamence.
 

Lazyboy0337

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 26, 2008
Messages
200
Just starting to Vertex Hack Lickilicky. Trying to figure out how to move vertices and imagine the texter over the points
 

Hyper_Ridley

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 21, 2007
Messages
2,289
Location
Hippo Island
Oooo, Salamence moveset!

Even though I'm used to seeing all sorts of crazy concepts in the Make Your Move threads, I did genuinely enjoy a lot of the attacks in this guy for their simple creativity. I was impressed with how many different moves you got with all those little sweet-spots, wind effects, and fire widening. Good work making Flamethrower something besides a Charizard rip-off. The Hydro-pump moves were justified seeing as how the Uair used it to make steam and give him more fun wind effects, and the Usmash just looks epic.

I like Salemence's general playstyle concept with juggling and how he's an aerial character who actually has a reason to go on the ground with launchers. However, I feel as though he contradicts his strategy a bit. For a characterw who's strategy involves keeping the opponent in the air he sure has a lot of moves that spike the opponent back to the ground (aerial Blazing Dragon, Bair, Dair, tail in Glide Air). While I do like the concept of having a lot of spiking moves, I feel that he should have a few more ways of dealing vertical knockback to actually, you know, juggle, lol.

On a similar note, the Playing Against section says the best place for opponents is above and in front of him. Um, wouldn't Salamence WANT opponents above him so he can keep pressuring them into his juggles? lol. Maybe instead of juggling you simply meant that he focuses on his air-game?

Overall, though, a very solid start for one of my favorite Pokemon. Very promising. :bee:
 

Omniscient X

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Messages
326
Ya Hyper Ridley I'm glad to see you were pleased with the moveset I have a handful of animations done for Salamence and he should turn out great! I'm still working on Tyranitar and he's doing great he has most moves except for some ledge attacks done.

As for your comments on the play style of Salamence, he has moves that can spike so that if the opponent invents a strategy to dominate air combat Salamence can quickly take control of the battle and force it back to the ground where Salamence can use his damage dealing strategies and attacks like Flamethrower to slowly rack up the damage before you can strafe around waiting for an opportunity to unleash Dragon's Rage for the kill!

Salamence's ground based moves all focus mainly on either a radius or in the general upward direction but if an opponent is above and in front of Salamence that can be a problem. This is because no attacks can be used to target an enemy at that angle because Salamence can't use fly that'll go right into the enemy resulting in the enemy taking advantage of Fly's laggy startup for an attack to start a combo. Enemies such as Samus can still hit Salamence although projectiles like her homing missiles can be easily negated by a full body covered move like Twister or Dragon Roar

@TGYMK I'll post screenshots for Salamence soon in the mean time if you could update the OP for Salamence and note that I'm working on 2 pokemon at the moment I've kinda put Garchomp on hold he got kinda boring anyway Salamence is fun :)
 

JOE!

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
8,075
Location
Dedham, MA
soooooooooo........


how are Tyranitar and Salamence not stupidly overpowered again? or is their point to be the "lol I haxx0red an I-WIN button! lolololololololololololololololololol" ?
 

Omniscient X

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Messages
326
??? You think Salamence is overpowered? He has alot of flaws in the moveset and I'm just using it as a rough it will be editted and right now Peach can kick his ***. That is one character that I'm afraid he has no advantage over, she can hover right in his blind spot and stall then use toad to reflect just about any move he's got :)
 

n64billy

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
614
Location
Behind you!
Don't you just love the internet....
wait, wait, wait....
did you seriously say you have trouble with pikachu spamming Thunder, and use that as a measure of cheapness?!?!?!?!
dude, AIR DODGE, SHIELD or just SPACING IN GENERAL
*sigh*
also, if he is focused on manipulation/status induciment, why would he be cheap, as he'd have little power
I didn't say I have trouble with it, I said it's annoying....

Dear Joe:
1. Please don't resort to foul language. I know you censored but it's still just uncalled for.
2. Calm Down. Your ideas are VERY valid but so are Pika's and Pepper's and everyone's. Gengar is a character that everyone loves and is familiar with, but is also one of the most diverse around; capable of pulling of MANY playstyles well. Therefore everyone has their own interpretation of him and their own idea of what would work 'well.' Even back in generation 1 I wouldn't call the Hypnosis/Dream Eater thing Gengar's signiture; the fact that both moves are Phychic and Hypno's name itself say hi. That said the final decision is up to the maker of the character, and those of us who FAIL at hacking ourselves should be happy we're asked for input :3
3. Gengar can't learn Shadow Sneak at all and hasn't been able to Teleport since Gen. 1.
Hehe, thanks Overdrive :p
Well there goes those ideas, thank goodness some of that is out of the way...

yes, but they're things ghosts can do, and frankly something that the "Shadow Pokemon" should do...
as for the hypnosis combo, it works very well for a status effect style..thing
I am aiming for a good balance between ghost/pokemon styles, so don't think I'm trying to completely block out the fact that he's a ghost..

Doesn't seem any cheaper to me than being 0-death'd by Melee Fox, or wall-of-pained by Melee Jiggs, Or being grenade-camped by Snake, or being planked by MK
(there's another "Wario for you JOE, why is Meta Knight for the ultimate stall tactic instead of his mach-speed sword?)
Heck, it feels really tame in comparison to all the other abuses seen in Brawl.

I do see where you're coming from, in that a character based on status effects has never been done in Smash and can be hard to picture. However, at the same time we won't know how balanced it will be until it's actually tested. I'm sure Iron Tager's magnetism stuff in Blazblue feels cheep to a lot of people at first glace, but then he's actually bottom tier in the first game (he's good in the second game but still nowhere near broken).
(Firstly... I main Metaknight *Shifts eyes*)
Exactly, but I also want to get ideas close to set in before 'wasting' any time animating and doing stuff since I'm on a tight timeline...
 

pikazz

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i am DESPERATE for help on psa with hoppip D:
anyone wanna help? 83
Wait so you know how to make a glide attack LeafBarret?

Introducing the newcomer to Brawl...Salamence!!
yeay for salamence 83
buuut he seems to be overpowered D:
"lol I haxx0red an I-WIN button! lolololololololololololololololololol" ?
PUSH START TO RICH!
 

leafbarrett

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i am DESPERATE for help on psa with hoppip D:
anyone wanna help? 83
I'm pretty good at most of the simpler stuff with PSA... and I guess I'm pretty good at more advanced stuff. But if it's charging attacks, you've probably got the wrong guy... actually, I might have an idea for that. ._.
Wait so you know how to make a glide attack LeafBarret?
Nope. And (much to my displeasure) I don't know how to DISABLE gliding, meaning that jumping is very dangerous for Scizor; hold the jump button even a little too long and the game will freeze. :< Same with the up-B (I'll have to figure out which Change Action to mess with.)
...Say, that gives me an idea. I'll look up the Change Action on MK's up-B (when I get home; I'm at school :laugh:) and let you know what action it changes to; maybe you can try putting a Change Action into the jumps. :3

Working on a theoretical moveset for Scizor right now. All I know is that he'll be a mix between Melee Mewtwo's speed, Bowser's jump, Charizard's flying, Ike's slow but lethal attacks (particularly the fsmash), and Wario's worthless up-B (except even weaker :laugh:).
 

Overdrive64

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If Scizor doesn't have Bullet Punch I call shenanigans on all of you. (PS Bullet Punch moves fast :3)
 

leafbarrett

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If Scizor doesn't have Bullet Punch I call shenanigans on all of you. (PS Bullet Punch moves fast :3)
Dash attack much? :p

Here's what I've got so far. I'll finish it when I get home.


Scizor
Stats
Size: 7/10
Scizor is quite tall- about Ganondorf’s height- but at the same time, he’s fairly slender overall. He’s an easy target for horizontal attacks, but not vertical attacks.

Weight: 11/10
Scizor is an immoveable tank. You’ll have better luck sending Bowser flying.

Walk: 0/10
Scizor is an immoveable tank. He’s slower than Melee Mewtwo.

Run: 1/10
See Walk.

Traction: 9/10
When moving, Scizor is so slow that stopping isn’t much of a problem. The interesting thing about traction is it also affects how far you slide when you hit the ground due to an attack; lower traction means that if you’re moving horizontally fast when you hit the ground, you may still go flying off the cliff, but if your traction is high enough, you’re pretty much safe when you hit ground. Because Scizor is so heavy, he screeches to a halt nearly as soon as he hits the ground.

Power: 14/10
Don’t get hit by him. Seriously, just don’t. I don’t care who you are; you won’t live to regret it if you do.

Attack Speed: 1/10
He’s as slow at attacking as he is at moving; he makes up for it by hitting harder than Ike. He does have, um… 3 fast attacks, I believe.

Range: 6/10
Good horizontal or vertical, but never both at the same time. Attacks don’t cover a whole lot of overall area, but they do have respectable reach.

Priority: 10/10
As strong as Scizor is, there isn’t much that can even clank with his attacks, much less out-prioritize them.

Jump: 2/10
Scizor DOES have strong legs, but Scizor also has a solid steel exoskeleton. As a result, he can’t jump worth a crap.

Midair Jump: 0/10
Although Scizor has wings, they aren’t made for flying, and can’t really support him in the air. His midair jumps barely reach any higher than the start of the jump.

Aerial Mobility: 1/10
Scizor falls as fast as Fox, and has nearly no horizontal mobility in the air.



Recovery: 2/10
Combine the above with his terrible up special, which is pretty much a weak version of Wario’s up special, and you’ve got your work cut out for you when trying to recover. Scizor can hover for a short while, however.

Crouch: 4/10
Meh. Better than standing up, but not by much.

Wall Jump: No
Crawl: No
Glide: No
Hover: Yes
Tether: No
Jumps: 4

…You know, it’s ironic. I keep calling Scizor “he,” but the Scizor that I’m basing this moveset off of is a girl. :laugh:

Standard Attacks
-Jab: Fury Cutter. One of Scizor’s only fast attacks, but also one of his only weak ones. Repeating. 1% slash + 1% slash, 0* + 180*, looping

-Up Tilt: Slash. Slashes upwards with both claws; has a sweetspot where they meet. 9% hit / 16% slash, 54* / 90*
-Side Tilt: Metal Claw. Slashes forward… that’s it. 14% Slash, 40*
-Down Tilt: Swipes the ground with his claw. Okay for edge-guarding, but not much else. 10% slash, 270*

-Dash Attack: Bullet Punch. Lunges forward at lightning speed; has a long cooldown, but nearly instant startup. 9% hit, 21*

-Up Smash: Double Hit. Swings one claw upwards, then the other; the first hit stuns, then the second hit sends the opponent flying.
 

Christian_CAO

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Dash attack much? :p

Here's what I've got so far. I'll finish it when I get home.


Scizor
Stats
Size: 7/10
Scizor is quite tall- about Ganondorf’s height- but at the same time, he’s fairly slender overall. He’s an easy target for horizontal attacks, but not vertical attacks.

Weight: 11/10
Scizor is an immoveable tank. You’ll have better luck sending Bowser flying.

Walk: 0/10
Scizor is an immoveable tank. He’s slower than Melee Mewtwo.

Run: 1/10
See Walk.

Traction: 9/10
When moving, Scizor is so slow that stopping isn’t much of a problem. The interesting thing about traction is it also affects how far you slide when you hit the ground due to an attack; lower traction means that if you’re moving horizontally fast when you hit the ground, you may still go flying off the cliff, but if your traction is high enough, you’re pretty much safe when you hit ground. Because Scizor is so heavy, he screeches to a halt nearly as soon as he hits the ground.

Power: 14/10
Don’t get hit by him. Seriously, just don’t. I don’t care who you are; you won’t live to regret it if you do.

Attack Speed: 1/10
He’s as slow at attacking as he is at moving; he makes up for it by hitting harder than Ike. He does have, um… 3 fast attacks, I believe.

Range: 6/10
Good horizontal or vertical, but never both at the same time. Attacks don’t cover a whole lot of overall area, but they do have respectable reach.

Priority: 10/10
As strong as Scizor is, there isn’t much that can even clank with his attacks, much less out-prioritize them.

Jump: 2/10
Scizor DOES have strong legs, but Scizor also has a solid steel exoskeleton. As a result, he can’t jump worth a crap.

Midair Jump: 0/10
Although Scizor has wings, they aren’t made for flying, and can’t really support him in the air. His midair jumps barely reach any higher than the start of the jump.

Aerial Mobility: 1/10
Scizor falls as fast as Fox, and has nearly no horizontal mobility in the air.



Recovery: 2/10
Combine the above with his terrible up special, which is pretty much a weak version of Wario’s up special, and you’ve got your work cut out for you when trying to recover. Scizor can hover for a short while, however.

Crouch: 4/10
Meh. Better than standing up, but not by much.

Wall Jump: No
Crawl: No
Glide: No
Hover: Yes
Tether: No
Jumps: 4

…You know, it’s ironic. I keep calling Scizor “he,” but the Scizor that I’m basing this moveset off of is a girl. :laugh:

Standard Attacks
-Jab: Fury Cutter. One of Scizor’s only fast attacks, but also one of his only weak ones. Repeating. 1% slash + 1% slash, 0* + 180*, looping

-Up Tilt: Slash. Slashes upwards with both claws; has a sweetspot where they meet. 9% hit / 16% slash, 54* / 90*
-Side Tilt: Metal Claw. Slashes forward… that’s it. 14% Slash, 40*
-Down Tilt: Swipes the ground with his claw. Okay for edge-guarding, but not much else. 10% slash, 270*

-Dash Attack: Bullet Punch. Lunges forward at lightning speed; has a long cooldown, but nearly instant startup. 9% hit, 21*

-Up Smash: Double Hit. Swings one claw upwards, then the other; the first hit stuns, then the second hit sends the opponent flying.
That's a cool move set and I love the ideas =) Though Scizor doesn't give me that "tank" feel and even though the move set displays his Stats quite accurately (Scyther loosing speed for defense) I feel that he may be just too slow. Also, though Scizor is strong, I wouldn't say that he's That strong. Maybe you could tone down the power a bit. Maybe a 8.5/10 instead of the dynamic 14/10. Just my two-cents on it. It's a great idea so far and I hope it's a success =D
 

leafbarrett

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I think the glide action is 85.
That's a cool move set and I love the ideas =) Though Scizor doesn't give me that "tank" feel and even though the move set displays his Stats quite accurately (Scyther loosing speed for defense) I feel that he may be just too slow. Also, though Scizor is strong, I wouldn't say that he's That strong. Maybe you could tone down the power a bit. Maybe a 8.5/10 instead of the dynamic 14/10. Just my two-cents on it. It's a great idea so far and I hope it's a success =D
Thanks for the critique. :3 8.5 is too low, though (I've got Ike set at a 10).
 

leafbarrett

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yeah, you made Scizor into Forretress here :p

he's not *that* heavy or strong....
And Lucario isn't that slow, and Extremespeed actually does damage, and Pikachu doesn't learn Skull Bash, and Rest isn't an attack. :p Also, if you base it on a professional moveset, yes, he IS that strong.
 

leafbarrett

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Scizor is a very fast pokemon, I don't why you want him to be a tank, plus he is bug= not very heavy.
Scizor is NOT a fast pokemon. Scyther is fast, but after the Metal Coat, Scizor isn't quite so fast with all that extra weight.
 

E123-omega

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I guess we don't see eye to when it comes to the awesomeness that is Scizor. Anyway, I really need help with PSA.
 

leafbarrett

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I guess we don't see eye to when it comes to the awesomeness that is Scizor. Anyway, I really need help with PSA.
I never said I didn't see the awesomeness of Scizor. I'm a competitive battler; I know how epic Scizor is. But he is not fast. That's what Bullet Punch is for. :laugh:

And what do you need help with?
 

JOE!

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hes not that fast, but you made him friggen immobile..... O_O

and he's strong, but you made him make Donkey Kong go O_O
 

E123-omega

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Dant's PSA mod doesn't let me open any files on it, I don't remember exactly what is says, something pertaining to the number 0. I'll check later, when I can the computer w/ PSA and Bbox on it.
 

Omniscient X

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Hey guys!! Critique my Salamence moveset on page 70 and tell me what you thinmk and most importantly WHY you think it!! thanks :)
 

pikazz

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I'm pretty good at most of the simpler stuff with PSA... and I guess I'm pretty good at more advanced stuff. But if it's charging attacks, you've probably got the wrong guy... actually, I might have an idea for that. ._.
thanks 83
well, it not the charging attack xD the charge working on hoppip but to put hitboxes on the right bones and making them medium, not too strong or too weak :urg:

nice stats for scizor :3 but she is kinda slow

AND YEAH! I have decide. then the hoppip is finish I will start to make...

Dusknoir!

Stats
Size: 8/10
his size is almost big as dedede

Weight: 9/10
Dusknoir is a great ghost tank, he has great defense and kinda heavy so it wouldn't be easy to send he off the stage

Walk: 1/10
he is slow but he cant walk because he doesn't have legs D:

Run: 2/10
well, he can speed a bit only if he want.

Power: 9/10
He is also kinda strong (looked at pokeathlon stats. 5 stars of 5)

Attack Speed: 5/10
depend on his attacks, some are slower and some is faster

Range: 7/10
he has actually good range of attacks but it is because his long arms


Jump: 10/10
because he is a ghost pokemon, he can float and jump very hard

Midair Jump: 6/10
see jump but weaker

Aerial Mobility: 5/10
since he can float he has pretty good aerial mobility so he can easy move in air.


Recovery: 2/10
His stamina is not so good (1-2 stars of 5) so it take a little longer than usually to recover.

Crouch: ---/10
dont really know yet D:

Wall Jump: No
Stuck on wall: yes
Crawl: ---
Glide: No
Hover: No
Tether: No
Jumps: 5

Signature moves
B attack: Shadow Punch
This attack is not so fast and kinda strong but it cant miss then he punch on someone, even is opponent has shield

^B attack: shadow sneak. a combo attack, he will turn into shadow and moving fast at distance somewhere. the attack is very fast, almost as fast as melee mewtwo's teleport

VB attack: Gravity. The opponent will be impaled in the ground in front of Dusknoir with great damage. but if the opponent are in air. they will be spiked to the ground, just a bit damage here. if both are in the air, both (opponent and dusknoir) will be spiked to the ground but if they miss the ground... SUICIDE! 83 use this attack well.

<B: not decided yet D:

Final smash: cant decide between mean look, pain split, trick room or curse D:
 

Christian_CAO

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Wait so you know how to make a glide attack LeafBarret?

Introducing the newcomer to Brawl...Salamence!!

His New Moveset:

Size: 9/10
Salamence is a true dragon and he’s not lacking in the size department he even approaches Tyranitar in size, well sort of.
Weight: 7/10
Salamence’s wings give him an unusual floaty property while jumping (much like toon link) but although he’s fast he’s also heavy enough where he’s hard to kill, kind of like charizard.
Walk: 4/10
He is a proud pokemon and doesn’t mind just taking a slow stroll across the battlefield to intimidate opponents.
Run: 9/10
incredibly fast. Nearly as fast as Sonic, as he is the fastest flying pokemon he should also have a fast dash speed, seeing as he flies instead of actually running.
Power: 9.5/10
Salamence, like Tyranitar, is a pseudo-legendary and is equip with truly awesome power, though not quiet as extreme as Tyranitar.
Attack Speed: 6/10
Salamence is actually quiet fast for most of his moves, and the ones that aren’t make up for it in sheer power.
Range:10/10
Salamence uses his size and Dragon attribute attacks like Delta Blast to gain lots of range.
Priority:10/10
Salamence has his Dragon-Type which has effects like flame and energy to lots of his attacks and some moves can even stop Tyranitar, something even summons like Suicune can’t do!
1st Jump:6/10
His legs are too small to give him much lift but an ok jump overall.
2nd Jump:9/10
Much better than the first jump his powerful wings propel him into the air.
3rd Jump:9/10
Identical to the 2nd jump
4th Jump:10/10
In preparation to glide this gives Salamence a huge amount of lift and is great for recovery.
Recovery: 10/10
He has great aerial jumps and an awesome recovery move.
Fall Speed: 3/10
Salamence’s wings give him an edge in the air allowing him to stay airborne much longer and perform more combos.
Air Speed:10/10
Incredibly fast, he can almost outpace a sonic on the ground while he’s in the air (note that he can while he glides!)
Crouch: 1/10
Horrible doesn’t really do anything at all.

Hover: No
Crawl: No
Wall Jump: No
Glide: Yes

Moveset:​

Specials:

Neutral Special: Dragon’s Rage​
One of Salamence’s best projectiles and most frequent ranged moves, though it must be charged.
Dragon’s Rage is a charged attack that must be all the way charged to work although the charge only takes around 1.5 seconds. Salamence rears his neck and charges Dragon-Type energy seen as fire spouting from his mouth. Once it is fully charged though it becomes a force to be reckoned with. Salamence spews a mighty ball of energy (Rayquaza’s Attack) which deals 15% damage and 1.5 times the knockback of a fully charged Charge Shot!!
Dragon’s Rage is a great move to save until you have your foe on the run, then you can take to the air and glide to get linear with them and fire the ball of energy to finish off opponents with higher damage. Also a word of caution, attempting to use it without charge will result in you losing your charge and returning to Salamence’s idle stance. In addition, the moves charge can only be held once it is fully completed, if you roll/shield out of the charge it will not retain its charge. Although it takes time to charge and you must do it in a single attempt, Dragon’s Rage has almost unmatched priority that most moves cannot cancel out, not even summoned pokemon’s moves!

Side Special: Flamethrower​
Salamence’s staple move in the anime reoccurs in Brawl! This could be considered Salamence’s best attack except that it cannot be spammed due to ending lag.
Salamence crouches charging massive amounts of fire in his mouth then he lunges forward and unleashes a horizontal stream of flame!! The effect for this attack is that of entei’s Fire Spin turned on its side giving it awesome range and a really cool look. Any opponent caught in the stream will be dealt 4% fire hitlag damage until the attack ends with a punishing 10% fire damage and powerful knockback.
Although it has great priority as well the stream only lasts for about roughly 1.5 to maybe 2 seconds and Salamence is vulnerable to attacks during this time. Also a footnote, that although Flamethrower has great priority and power and can cancel out a lot of attacks, it cannot stand against the incredible power of Tyranitar’s Hyper Beam so don’t even try that!

Up Special: Fly​
Salamence gains access to limited flight like Pit does except for a shorter period of time although Salamence moves much faster side-to-side and downwards, he cannot climb as fast. However, unlike Pit if he is knocked out of Fly he can use the move again, though at the end he will not go into a helpless state and instead still has access to aerial attacks and dodges.
If the move is started on the ground Salamence will not fly directly up like Pit would but he will move in a forward diagonal motion ascending quickly into the sky. This allows Salamence to outrun and dodge projectiles fired at his backside quickly and then wheel around and take advantage of enemy ending lag by flying toward the opponent to open up opportunities to use moves like Flamethower and Blazing Dragon to punish slow opponents.

Down Special: Blazing Dragon​
A move not technically real but it is created by utilizing Salamence’s ability to use Double-Edge, Dragon-Type attacks and Flamethrower. Salamence starts in a crouched kind of stance, after about 15 frames Salamence exhales fire which surrounds him and encases him in a sphere of fire. You can hold the attack here and just keep him in one spot with the sphere of fire around him. It doesn’t charge but you can hold it to wait for the opponent and negate the startup lag of just taping down-B. The there is a hitbox surrounding the fire which will knock opponents forward in front of Salamence so that he can attack them. When the B button is released you will shoot forward in a flying animation covered in flames. The attack can do 3% damage during the “charge” period and the charging attack does 10% damage and moderate KB as well as provide invincibility frames for the first 15 frames of the actual attack.

The charge travels at a speed roughly equivalent to Captain Falcons kick, however when it makes contact it will slow down to about MK’s Drill Rush speed and then pick up speed again after the collision. Salamence will go about 75% the length of final destination before he stops and the move will not stop at ledges and Salamence will fall off. Although he will fall off, like Captain Falcon, he will not enter a helpless state and can use Fly to recover and follow up with an attack. The flame that surrounds him for the completion of the attack will negate all attacks allowing him to tunnel through most defenses except for shields and Pit’s Mirror Shield.

When the attack is used in the air it gains the properties of a stall-then-fall attack except for a few major differences. Just as Salamence can hold the fire sphere charge on the ground he can also do so in the air. Salamence will curl up into a pseudo-ball-like position and start and continuously exhale fire from his mouth, which will surround him in a sphere of fire like before. He can stay in this position and maintain the fire ball which will negate most projectiles, and when he lands he will negate most landing lag. Where as if the B button is released before you hit the ground you will dive toward the ground enveloped in flames like on the ground and you will slam into the ground generating a small wave of flames followed by a minor shockwave with a minor push effect. The aerial version always spikes even when the B button is held and causes 3% damage during the held period. As for during the dive, you will do 13% damage to opponents and a meteor smash, sending foes crashing downward. It should be noted that you can tunnel through projectiles like before however some very powerful Kb may take minor influence over the trajectory of the dive and cause Salamence to alter his course (pushing him horizontally). Also after about a second of the moves duration, as Salamence would continue the move until he hits the ground of Self-Destructs, you can cancel the move into Fly and recover, though you still retain a portion of the vertical momentum. During the dive you move as fast as Sonic’s D-Air.
This move can be used to camp and wait for falling opponents and punish juggler’s who give Salamence enough air to perform the move. It can effectively crush juggler’s strategies and can tunnel through projectile-based strategies as well.

Normal Moves:

Neutral Combo: Wing Whirlwind

Strikes with both wings followed by a rather laggy wing flap that produces wing sufficiently powerful enough to blow enemies away at least a battlefield platform (it has about the range of Pit’s up special Wings of Icarcus’s beginning “ring”)

Dash Attack: Shoot Through
Salamence’s dash speed increases by 50% for a few brief frames and he becomes heated up by fire charged in his body. His whole body is a hitbox that deals 5% fire damage and moderate vertical KB while his head is the sweetspot that does 7% fire damage with decently strong vertical KB.

Forward Tilt: Dragonbreath
Salamence quickly swings his head around in a quick arc then lunges forward and spouts a blast of air (about double the range of Charizard’s Flamethrower, though in only last for about 20-30 frames) that deals moderate KB and around 6% damage.

Upwards Tilt: Dragon Roar

Salamence lets loose a vicious roar creating sonic waves that can be seen! The roar’s range is about 1.5 stage builder blocks radius from Salamence’s mouth and the only other hitboxes are on Salamence himself. The KB of this attack is great however there’s no damage unless you’re touching Salamence where you will suffer 3% damage and lots of hitlag. This attack is great for starting a combo and setting up for a smash attack.

Downward Tilt: Twister

Salamence rears and flaps his wings swirling dragon-energy into the air creating a tornado (I’ll use meta knight’s Neutral Special effect for this) the tornado is about twice the size of MK’s tornado and has a vacuum effect for the majority of the attack dealing about 4% damage a second and using the suction to restrain foes inside the tornado. The final hits of the attack have no damage but great push effect and can send foes flying, though the hitbox is basically only half the size of the twister. The great thing about this attack is that it can cancel out nearly all projectiles and set off explosives as the twister does fire damage.

Ledge Attack: Slash
Salamence heaves himself over the edge and swipes quickly with one foreleg dealing 6% damage and moderate KB.

Ledge Attack over 100%: Tail Whip
Salamence brings himself up slower than his other ledge attack and swings with his heavy tail dealing 10% damage and great KB. Don’t use this against and edgehog who will just see it coming, dodge and then slam you back off the stage possibly (but unlikely) to your doom.

Floor Attack: Crunch
Salamence bites on either side of him dealing 8% damage and moderate KB.

Floor Attack over 100%: Tail Sweep
Salamence spins with his tail outstretched tripping opponents and dealing 5% damage with strong horizontal KB.

Aerial attacks:​

Neutral Aerial: Overheat
Salamence heats up its body causing it to glow a faint red and give of medium sized flames. Salamence’s body does 5% and moderate KB and the flames do 7% but weak KB. During the brief frames where Salamence is aflame he gains invincibility frames.

Forward Aerial: Dragon Burst
Salamence lets loose a stream of dragon fire and wind resulting in a blast-like fan of bluish flames with a moderate range but some ending lag before Salamence can dodge again. Salamence’s chest area does 2% damage and weak KB, the beginning of the flames (near the mouth) does 8% damage and moderate KB, and the middle and end of the flames do 5% damage and stronger KB. All hitboxes KB is aimed forward. This is one of Salamence’s best finishers in aerial combat and can greatly aid in an approach, especially when an opponent attempts to intercept you. The flames can cancel out projectiles and still hit the opponent.

Backward Aerial: Tail Slam
Salamence swings his tail behind him in an arc top to bottom. The tail does 1% damage on startup with hitlag and then 3% on the beginning of the swing and moderate backwards knockback and 6% during the middle to the end of the swing and always spikes the opponent.

Upwards Aerial: Steam Blast
Time to unveil Salamence’s greatest secret…he can learn Hydro Pump! He can combine this with Dragon and Fire type attacks to create powerful combination attacks involving steam. We see this in the TCG incarnations as well, so he uses a weak version of Hydro Pump and a Fire attack to quickly exhale a burst of steam. The steam only does damage at his mouth where it is the hottest (8% damage) the rest of the steam is the wind effect and has strong push effect the sends opponents towards the heavens. This move can quickly be followed up with fly and an Overheat, once the opponent is past the blast line, for a Star KO.

Downwards Aerial: Fire Stream
Salamence rears (in the air?) and aims downward, a stream of flames erupting from Salamence’s mouth. The stream takes a few frames to fully expand into the wide stream which is about the size of 3 of Bowser’s Fire Breaths stacked on each other. The mouth and near flames spikes the opponent with 9% damage while the midst of the flames does diagonal KB and 11% damage and the ends of the flames simply do hitlag and 8% damage. Overall this can be Salamence’s most damaging aerial attack.

Glide Attack: Dragon Claw
Salamence swipes with one foreleg dealing 9% damage and great vertical KB, the move can be used to juggle the foe and the tail has an extra hitbox that can spike opponents who just dodged the swipe but not the rest of Salamence.

Grab and Throws:​

Grab: Chomp
Salamence lunges forward snapping with his jaws. Slightly more range than Charizard’s grab, it is comparable to King Dedede’s grab.

Pummel: Fire Fang
Burns the foe trapped in Salamence’s jaws with 4% damage.

Forward Throw: Toss
Salamence bows his head for an instant, with the opponent clutched in his jaws and then flips his neck and head tossing the opponent with 6% damage and moderate diagonal KB.

Backward Throw: Fling
Salamence violently swings his head behind him flinging the opponent with surprisingly strong horizontal KB but just 3% damage.

Upward Throw: Jet Propulsion
Salamence lifts his head skyward then unleashes a small burst of steam propelling the opponent with moderate vertical KB and 5% damage.

Downward Throw: Point-Blank
Salamence lays the opponent on the ground and then hits them with a point blank Dragonbreath causing no damage but strong horizontal KB and the opponent is lying down. This move can kill on ice floors when used correctly.

Smash Attacks:​

Forward Smash: Delta Blast
One of Salamence’s best kill moves but for a smash it lacks in damage. Salamence winds up and will charge in the wind up animation. Then he will swing his head in a quick upwards arc until he’s aimed forward. He will unleash a stream of fire with swirling dragon energy around it.

The blast is affected by the charge with no charge it will go about 2.5 stage builder blocks long near the mouth will do 11% damage with moderate forward KB and most of the flame will do 6% damage and strong KB except for near the end. Near the end of the blast is the sweetspot with 5% damage but incredible forward KB.

Although without a charge it’s still a force to be reckoned with, at full charge it can cause absolute destruction. The blast stream gets wider and goes 4.5 stage builder blocks! The mouth hitbox does 15% damage and moderate to strong forward KB, the majority of the flames does 10% damage and quiet strong KB and near the end does 9% damage and incredible forward KB. The force is enough to KO Bowser at low percentages relatively close to the edge!

Upward Smash: Steam Twister
An arguably unorthodox move for Salamence, this move is from the TCG Salamence incarnation and involves him once again combining Hydro Pump and Flamethrower. The move starts with him going into a pseudo-crouch (this is where he’ll charge if the smash is charged) then he’ll rear up and let loose a spiraling blast of steam from his gaping mouth. The steam goes incredibly high even uncharged it goes a little higher than the altitude of an average 1st jump! The twister of steam only increases in size with charge becoming wider and goes .5 times higher than before!

However, what the move attains in range it lacks in damage the only part of the tornado that does any damage, besides Salamence’s body which does 1% damage with weak KB, is near the mouth of Salamence where the steam is hottest dealing 13% damage with moderate upwards KB. However, although the move has weak damage it’s killing potential is truly amazing or such an odd move because the rest of the tornado, aside from near the end at the highest point, has really strong vertical KB and the tip has incredibly KB.

The attack works cumulatively from bottom upwards, the opponent usually starts on the ground near Salamence and is then kicked into the midst of the tornado be the mouth hitbox and is flung upwards into the end of the twister sending the foe streaking towards the heavens. KB does not change for the charge although the hitboxes do get larger due to the size increase of the twister. One main attribute affected by the charge is the duration of the move which can go from 25 frames to nearly 50 frames! The move is most commonly used to fling opponents into the air allowing Salamence to take to the air and really go on the offensive!

Downward Smash: Volcanic Hurricane
Salamence starts in a reared position (the position for charging the smash) and will then spew fire while flap his wings twice while reared and then slam into the ground dealing a final powerful flap.

The flames are then taken by the wind creating a flaming gale that results in one of Salamence’s most balanced moves. The wind will go 2 stage builder blocks in both horizontal directions and during the first two flaps the wind deals 8% fire damage and trips any grounded opponents and will cause hitlag to airborne ones and the body of Salamence does 5% damage with weak KB, excluding the wings which do 10% damage and moderate KB. The only thing the charge of the smash effects is the final flap. Uncharged the flap will generate a gust of burning wind that will go 2.5 stage builder blocks in both directions and will do 10% damage with strong KB, the body still does 5% damage and weak KB except for the sweetspot of the move where Salamence actually slams his feet into the ground which will impale opponents the slam connects with. The wings do 13% damage and strong KB and the effectiveness of the move only increases with charge.

Salamence will generate a stronger wind from the final flap at a full charge that goes 3 stage builder blocks in both directions and goes farther up than the uncharged version. The wind does 15% damage and stronger KB, the hitbox for the feet slam is enlarged and the damage done by the wings is racked up to 17% with stronger KB as well. This smash isn’t a great kill move but like the d-tilt is decent at racking up damage, it is one of Salamence’s few grounded moves that can do so.

FINAL SMASH

Draco Meteor:
Salamence flies to the center of the stage dealing 7% damage and moderate KB to anybody in his way. Salamence will then proceed to unleash unreflectable flaming meteors from his body in all directions. The meteors go relatively slow but will break shield and will outlast a dodge due to the slower speed and large size.

The meteors will do 25% damage to anything they hit and massive KB as well. This is Salamence’s ultimate kill move equipped with damage, range, priority, massive projectiles and invincibility during the attack.

Playstyle: Turning up the Heat​
Salamence has incredible speed, priority and range as well as quiet a lot of killing power. However, his disadvantage is his inability to rack up a lot of damage to make a lot of his kill moves effective. Salamence makes up for this with his aerial speed and juggling capability.

The best strategy is an airborne one; once you start the match you have two major options. Option #1 you should take to the air and attempt to use aerial attacks to buffet the opponent and knock them into the air and then use fly and spike them with Tail Slam or Blazing Dragon. Then return to the ground and use attacks like Steam Twister and Shoot Through to knock the opponent back into the air. Continue this pattern to slowly but surely rack up damage on the opponent (a Twister every now and then isn’t a bad idea either) and once they get past about 100% spike them and retreat. Charge up Dragon’s Rage and wait outside of their projectile range (if they have one), otherwise just keep your distance. The wait for them to come closer and once they are at about 2 stage builder blocks away wait for them to attack. Then blast off a Dragon’s Rage into the attack and let its near-invincible priority take care of the rest. If it doesn’t kill them then tail them and follow up with a Flamethrower.

Option #2 is a projectile-based strategy where you begin by charging up Dragon’s Rage and keep your distance while continually pelting the foe with Flamethrowers and Dragon’s Rage to rack up damage. Use them in combination to prevent dodging from being effective. Once they get near 60-70% you can enter melee combat with Volcanic Hurricane, Twister, and Wing Whirlwind to rack up some damage at close range. Try not to take to many hits and if your feeling overwhelmed use Dragon Roar, Dragonbreath or even Blazing Dragon as a get-off-me move to put some distance between you and the opponent. Once they near 100% you can let loose with Steam Twister, Flamethrower, Dragon Claw, Blazing Dragon and possibly the most effective: Delta Blast to finally KO the opponent. This strategy keeps you from being overwhelmed by either projectile or melee based characters but a well balanced character such as fox can keep you on your toes.

Playing Against: Grounding the Dragon
Salamence is very fast in the air, possibly too fast to handle effectively so what do you do? You meteor smash the flying lizard attempting to attack you as a grounded opponent or take to the air to continue an attack!

The trick to beating Salamence is knowing when to swallow your pride and know that most of your attacks can’t beat his head on, and just dodge and roll to punish his laggy smash attacks ort dodge the projectile hailstorm he can unleash from a distance. You must keep the combat strictly melee using fast low-KB moves to rack up damage on Salamence and attempt to dodge his get-off-me moves to continue. However, if you’re knocked away and you see him use fly, get above and spike him back to earth. If you don’t meteor smash him before he exits your range (and trust me he will) you are in a hole. You must be ready for anything and dodge the powerful moves and clang with the weaker ones while biding your time waiting for him to use Dragon Claw, Blazing Dragon, Overheat or Flamethrower.

Learn to recognize the startup animations of these moves and jump when you see them and spike Salamence when you’re above him. The best place to be in relationship to Salamence is diagonally above and in front of him where he has no escape. Also, constantly jumping can effectively negate projectile-based onslaughts and help you stay at low damage which is the real key to beat Salamence.
Love all the ideas so far. To those that think he and T-tar are broken: He and Tyranitar do seem supremely powerful, but power isn't every thing; just ask poor Ganondorf XD

Unlike T-tar though, Salamence has a bit of a MK feel to him. Where as T-tar feels like a Bowser Ganon hybrid. Salamence is not only extremely powerful, but also quite speedy. That's a bit much, since he can out prioritize T-tar XD

The play styles are very well thought out and fun to read as well.
My only complaint is that His Down B, Blazing Dragon, probably should go into helpless once the animation is done if he falls off stage.

Just saying that he shouldn't have such a safe move. Sort of like a Falcon Punch, you should stay committed to it and not be able to cancel early. So with Blazing Dragon, misjudging your distance between you and the edge of the stage should result in punishment. Then again, it going 75% the length of Final Destination is a perfectly understandable reason to keep him from going into helpless state XD

Great moveset, keep it up =)
 

JOE!

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
8,075
Location
Dedham, MA
Er, you do realize he's super-powerful, along with havign NONE of the weaknesses of ganon, right?

Such as: ungimpable recovery, EPIC RANGE, projectiles. etc, etc, etc
 

Omniscient X

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Messages
326
Right I see why you think he's broken now now let me explain, Salamence's kill moves are about as predictable as a home run attack, literally you'll see them coming from a mile away, and he cannot rack up damage and he's a ******* psuedo-legendary for gods sake he's supposed to be the FASTEST flying pokemon and he's powerful so I made him floaty, took away his crawl, his quick kill moves have been editted and I made Dragon's Rage (DR) have to be fully charged to work so if an opponent keeps wailing on you your in trouble cuz you need time to charge that thing.

Edit: Let me ask you something do you think MK is broken??
 

Omniscient X

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Messages
326
Cuz I guarantee you if you play with Salamence once he's done he'll need skill to use effectively otherwise he'll be useless but rather quick and strong but you'll notice how hard it is to rack up damage without a strategy :bee:
 

JOE!

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
8,075
Location
Dedham, MA
the way you described him is that he has the best movement in the game pared with an EPIC recovery, projectiles, and outrnaged everyone.

he makes Marth piss himself, and Mk wish his sword were bigger
 

Omniscient X

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Messages
326
Ok your making assumptions based on base statistics just wait until I come out with a beta and then see what you think ok??
 

Omniscient X

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Messages
326
ok fair enough lol
Edit: Finished mostl of Salamence's moving animations like all jumps, landings i've got the dash and run and all the turns and run brakes done I have a few attacks all the falls I'm just finishing his walking :lick:
 
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