Match Up Export: Peach

Overview:
Peach is back from Melee and has a turnip to force feed you. Angry turnip spam and the most annoying aerial game since Jiggs in Melee, Peach is back from the kitchen and wants to wear the pants in this relationship. Don't let her and send her *** back to the frying pan to cook some MK stew for YOU!

Kirby’s Pros and Cons:

+ Good aerial game
+ FSmash kill move at semi-low percents (100%~).
+ Plenty of jumps to gimp Peach with.
+ Strong plank/wall game if stock lead is gained.
- No solid approach options.
- Lightness may lead to earlier death (120%~)
- Limited effectiveness on ground in this MU.

Peach's Pros and Cons:

+ Turnips. 'Nuff said.
+ Floating DAir, FAir, etc. beat Kirby's ground approach options.
+ Great camper.
- Light = early death.
- Gimpable recovery.
- Limited approach options
- No offstage game.

Watch out for:
Turnips – Turnip camping, attempting turnip gimps and lastly, but most scary, chance of pulling a bomb-omb/ beam sword/ mr saturn/ stitchface!. Either learn to shield and grab the turnip when it's falling or catch in air with airdodge to gain use of a turnip which can sway matchup more in Kirby's favor. If Peach gets the stock lead, she'll turnip camp and you'll have a hard time penetrating her defenses; try BAiring on reaction. As a mixup change from BAir to FAir every once in a while but space it well.

Anytime Peach is floating – If you run in, Peach will jump>float> DAir>DAir and then move away or some variable of that; the point being she'll float out of your reach and attack your shield. Peach's DAir while floating racks damage quickly and FAir while floating has huge amts of horizontal knockback @ high percents. Avoid or hold shield til Peach isn't near you.

Peach having the lead – Once she gets that lead, it's going to get real difficult and annoying. Can you say heavy turnip camp? Kirby needs to get the lead and MAINTAIN the lead.

How to win:
Reactive BAir – React to what Peach is doing and BAir appropriately. BAir also may come down to being your kill move so pummel often. If you gain the stock lead, BAir wall with PERFECT spacing; don't get hit.

GIMP THAT TRICK. –

JoWii said:

For offstage gimps just dair>jump>dair. It'll knock out the first umbrella, momentum cancel a lil, then knock out the second umbrella they'll OBVIOUSLY pull out and by then the Peach will be below recovering range.

A very important part of this matchup IMO is understanding Peach's recovery. She can aerial while gliding and after she was her umbrella is she cancels it, there's a hitbox so edgehogging her recovery will just get you an added percent and she'll still come back. REMEMBER that her glide is a straight horizontal and her umbrella is a slow descent so time the hammer and mixup between landing the first and second hit. Her recovery is very predictable so remember you can DAir her up+b and hammer her over+b.

Click to expand...

Spacing – An incredible amount of this match up is about gaining and maintaining the stock/percent lead. Perfect spacing of BAirs and tilts minimalize damage taken and that's important in this matchup. Run away if you have to, and don't go toe to toe unless you're coming off with less damage in the end. SPACE EVERYTHING. If your spacing isn't that great, better get better or this match up is lost.

Charged Angled Up FSmash – I put this in the What to Do section because with aerial glide being a major mind game and BAir being Kirby's only other kill move for this match, landing a charged angled up FSmash can change the tides in our favor. If you have the stock lead, or a large percent lead, attempt it against her while she's approaching.

Spit out or Swallow?
Spit. Two ways to go about this:
1. Spit underneath BF, SV, PS1 or whatever has a lip or underneath that she can UpB under and get screwed.
2. Swallow, hold for a second or two and then off the stage and angle for a corner. If you hold her long enough and THEN jump off, she won't footstool kill you but she'll be far and low enough from the stage to recover while you jump to victory.

It's about what you feel comfortable with but Toad isn't useful enough in this matchup.

What NOT to do:
Run in and [impromptu] – Running @ her and shielding, smashing, tilting is a good way to eat a floating DAir to the face. Running in just isn't an approach option in this matchup. If you do, aim for a grab and get a few percents out of pummel and throw her. Keep it unpredictable and keep it at a minimum.

Eat turnip damage. – Eating a few turnip damage here and there just to land a few hits here in there is NOT what you want. Don't allow those 1%, 2%, 3%, etc. to rack up in an attempt to land hits. You want to avoid taking any damage during this matchup and allowing one or two turnips every time you wanna land a hit is going to lose this for you.

Let Peach Recover – Kirby HAS gimp options and Peach HAS a crappy recovery. It's our strong suit and if you're not jumping at every chance you get, that's a stock you let Peach keep.

Get hit. – I can't stress how important this match up is on not taking damage. Perfect space, avoiding turnips, etc.. DO IT! ALL OF IT! AVOID DAMAGE!

Stages (in order of priority):
Jungle Japes – Klap Trap, high ceiling, river kills Peach's recovery, DAir spike? Need I say more? Just watch out for Peach turnip camping.
Rainbow Cruise – Kirby should feel comfortable here and bad recovery Peach shouldn't. Moving stage means Peach can't sit and camp and awkward placed platforms help avoid turnips. Also blastzones are good for FSmash kills and UThrow. Throughout the match stay ahead of Peach during the horizontal transitions so that you can punish approaches. During the vertical transition Kirby should be looking to kill by attacking, attacking, and attacking.
Delfino – Water screws with Peach a lot. Stage moves to stop Peach camping and can lead to Peach's bad recovery leaving her behind when the stage moves.
Anywhere flat and linear – Just avoid places where turnip camping is going to be a major hassle (FD, SV) or where you don't feel comfortable.



Synopsis:
This match up boils down to stock/ percent leads. Perfect spacing, excellent camping and gimping correctly is what will win in this matchup. Avoid getting hit. It's a 50-50 match up until one character starts messing up and getting higher damage percent; then it leads in the percent lead's favor.

Yo, I've been told by your fearless discussion leader Jowii to come give my input here!

(I play Peach, btw)

I really really hate this matchup, I know a couple other Peaches who feel its annoying as well. I think it's about 55:45, your favor.

Peach really has to rely on camping and keeping the lead here, I find Kirby very difficult to approach thanks to his awesome back air. Now obviously, you can't just mindlessly throw back airs out and not expect to get punished, but if you do them in a reactive manner (i.e. watch what Peach is doing, then react with bair), it's really annoying for her to get around.

Good things for Peach in this MU - Good anti air game in Ftilt, hard for Kirby to approach if she has the lead, Kirby's light (means she can kill him before...170 or so...maybe), projectile, Kirby's Fsmash is pretty easily avoided (stay off the ground at kill %), Peach can sneak an Usmash in against Kirby from time to time with good reads.

Good things for Kirby in this MU - BACK AIR, hard to combo, great kill power, possible kirby-cide offstage (means Peach is really risking it trying to chase Kirby off the ledge), Dair goes through Peach's Up-B for early kills, just early kills in general, really.

That's all I know, I don't get to play Kirby's alot, which I am grateful for, because I hate your guys' little pink blob <(^_^<

If Kirby's bair isn't an essential part of a matchup, it's probably already ridiculously in his favor.

Bair can catch or cancel turnips, and FC can also be used to cancel them (though it's not as useful). Kirby shouldn't be doing risky stuff at high %'s because of Peach's fair, which is a punishing move that can KO. Peach is floaty (and can float) so she can escape both dthrow and fthrow strings with little difficulty. Peach can footstool Kirby out of an inhale, although she can be footstooled if she doesn't try (not something to hope for). To KO, Kirby should be using Bair (which can be refreshed with pummels if it's stale), edguarding or mixing in something else once in a while (dsmash, hyphen smash, hammer, etc.).

As for neutrals, FD and SV don't give any particular advantage to Kirby, Battlefield can block turnips, but the real gold neutral for Kirby is YI. The tilting platform messes up floating and turnips, and the slanting ground is a pain for floating techniques.

For CPs, I know PS1 is good for Kirby (when is it not?), and I imagine JJ and RC would also be good (JJ for the high ceiling, RC because it's a good Kirby stage). I think I remember something about Peach beasting on RC, or it being contraversial, or something...I'll have to check that.

Edit: Couldn't find any posts talking about it, but I still have a bad feeling about it.

Also: Turnips! Don't underestimate them. The rarer ones can deal tons of damage (Peach mains should have more exact knowledge about this, and probably have all the probabilities of pulling what kinds out and stuff) and they can be used to make us waste jumps offstage. With a turnip in hand, Peach has a 3-frame attack OoS (that's at least 2 frames faster than any of Kirby's attacks and has more range than any of them), so that's another reason to be worried about them.

I enjoy this match up. He doesn't like it when I space fair and run away with turnips. How ever this match up there will be alot of jumping which sucks. Spacing to spacing.

☆ Peach can be a pain, but not as much as a pain like in Melee where she can chase Kirby all the way to hell if she wanted to. )= ☆

☆ This match goes both ways, gimping Peach is not easy unless she's too low from the stage. Her kill steps takes work, most of Kirby's worries on her kill steps would be F-Air, Turnip Slide > F-Smash or U-Smash, (if connected right), or her Turnip gimping. This match up can be debated for Kirby's favor by a minor advantage. ☆

i definitely think this match up is in Peach's favor. it's not easy for either character to approach, but we have turnips to chuck at you which can help to rack up damage from a far.

every time i play a Kirby it comes down to a battle of spacing aerials, but Kirby has to stay in the air where as Peach can mix in her ground game. if Kirby gets caught on the ground Peach's dair will go through anything that's not a perfectly timed/space utilt or uair. also if Kirby goes too high in the air Peach can easily slip under him with a upwards glidetoss

also easier than normal to get shield pokes on kirby since he's so small and he doesn't have any great OOS options. which is also why you shouldn't be fighting on the ground. running in and trying to powershield, or grab, or dash attack, or roll will utilts is all worthless since Peach can counter with floated Dairs

Kirby does have a solid advantage when it comes to edge guarding. if Peach is behind a stock she really can't afford to chase Kirby off the stage because it can easily be reversed into a gimp

there's some other stuff, but the match is a spacing battle that Peach will eventually win thanks to turnips and Kirby's non existent ground game (in this match up)

Peach just can't afford to fight him near the ledge or off stage

I think it's in Kirby's favour. Turnips make it slightly difficult to approach, but Kirbys aerial game and offstage game are hard for Peach to beat. Also if Kirby plays hyper defensively (AKA run away), Peach has a ****ing hard time killing.

Thank you Nicole (Ironboots).

Alright so I kinda dislike this match up because you have to play pretty ghey but I'll say it's either 55-45 Kirby favor, or straight 50-50.

Our Bair is the most useful like Nicole said. React, don't just bair wall. Second most useful attack is our dair. For offstage gimps just dair>jump>dair. It'll knock out the first umbrella, momentum cancel a lil, then knock out the second umbrella they'll OBVIOUSLY pull out and by then the Peach will be below recovering range.

A very important part of this matchup IMO is understanding Peach's recovery. She can aerial while gliding and after she was her umbrella is she cancels it, there's a hitbox so edgehogging her recovery will just get you an added percent and she'll still come back. REMEMBER that her glide is a straight horizontal and her umbrella is a slow descent so time the hammer and remember to rock. Her recovery is very predictable so remember you can rock her up+b and hammer her over+b.

Stagewise, I personally enjoy Yoshi's Island because the odd incline of the stage helps out a lot. The slanting platform gives you some versatility with your 'rock'. And the close horizontal blastzones means a dair>fsmash on her *** is gonna kill her (or at least make it a very easy gimp). Other stages you wanna remember or PS1 - the obstacles nullify her turnips and the stage generally messes with her air game, and, IMO, Delfino is a pretty good one too for the same reasons (also if you're lucky the stage will ditch her recovering ***).

This matchup may cancel a good number of our moveset but what we still have, is a perfect match for her recovery options and approaching options. Just remember to rock her up+b, hammer the overB and bair that approach. (If you land a grab, great! but it's not essential I don't feel).

Edit: Oh, and since her aerial glide is a lil bit about mindgaming, try a charged fsmash if you're ahead.

I found dair for not good against peach. Out stage maybe but our upb beats it most of the time and our uair always wins and it will be kinda hard to hit peach with hammer because of her being so floaty.

IMO This match-up is pretty simple. Things I keep in mind:

- Turnips > Bair, turnips just rock overall in this match-up.
- Kirby's grab is scary at low percentages, should be avoided.
- Peach's pressure game hurts Kirby.
- Watch out for his Fsmash. God I hate that move.
- Killing doesn't seem to be a big problem.
- Kirby's gimps are predictable, watch him cautiously and we'll be fine. Not being cautios for a moment = AAH!
- Mistakes will get punished badly.

My last point is the most important one imo. It's pretty much what this match-up is about... The fewer mistakes Peach makes, the more it turns into her advantage. But we're all human, so Peach WILL make mistakes. Still, I think this match-up is 55-45 Peach, slight advantage.

Psh, this is a much simpler MU than you guys make it seem. A neat trick to try is hitting Peach as she pulls a turnip, it gets stuck in the ground, and therefore, technically in play, but not in anyone's possession. Not that it ever happens, but you may get lucky.

If she starts her floating air game, just get in front laterally, the only moves that hit in front, to my knowledge, are her F-air (laggy start-up) and the N-air (poor range), and the turnip. Spacing F-airs along with Kirby's B-air keeps them both fresh and mixes it up.

On the ground, learn to powersheild the turnips and use F-tilt to punish (does that cancel turnips?). But play it safe, peach still likes the air, and combining turnips and air game, along with her float makes her pesky and unpredictable, to an extent.

Offstage, just be patient. Peach's recovery is slow and steady, but a few major elements of it are eliminated if you drop aerials on her as she gets close, such as her float and peach bomber, which quickly loses effectiveness. Just don't be predictable, or you WILL be punished, and WILL lose your opportunity to gimp.

For neutrals, go for Yoshi's Island, Battlefield, and Lylat Cruise, they all mess with Peach's core gameplay elements. Just play it safe until the turnips are clear and be aggressive from there until more turnips come.

55-45

Beginning of match: 50-50

15 seconds in:

1. Kirby grabs and gets that dumb combo: 55-45 (Kirby advantage)
2. Peach gets some dumb combo: 40-60 (Peach advantage)

If Kirby has to approach, Peach will eat everything forever. If Peach has to approach, Kirby can wall her similarly, but less effectively, and she can choose not to approach. Yaaay for turnips.

45-55 Peach Overall Advantage

Turnips aren't THAT big a deal. Catch them, throw them back, then challenge her mid-range.

Can we get a bit of discussion on some CP stages or maybe strategies for racking damage and going for the kill?

And secondly, give this some thought:

The matchup is 50-50. More mistakes from Peach, catching the gimps = 55-45 Kirby favor. No mistakes from Peach, not understanding how to get past turnips = 45-55 Peach favor. If you don't agree, let's hear some opinions.

For Kirby, PS1 is a definite good stage (I would suggest Peach banning this). JJ is also a good CP. The stage discussion thread says that Peach can abuse Brinstar better than us, but I'm not exactly sure how (maybe that's just my ignorance though). It seems like sharking would be a reasonable way for Kirby to deal with turnips. Peach can float or jump to the top platform, but floating could be met with a final cutter and jumping is met by Kirby's great jumping ability. Either way, Kirby isn't being camped.

I agree, PS1 and Brinstar (for the above reasons) for CP, along with JJ, since the water doesn't work out well with Peach's recovery, not to mention the Klap Trap.

A good starter would be Battlefield, seeing how it discourages projectile camping to an extent, and Lylat as well. F. Destination and Smashville are OUT, strike pl0x. Yoshi is pretty legit even, though Kirby and stage spike (sort of) very easily here, and while the platform's flat, Peach can bombard with turnips.

And I've changed my worthless opinion to 50-50 (my ANSWER), with Jowii's reasoning, but no lower. Stage choice is the real catalyst in this MU, so let's hear some stage discussion from Peach's side, if you would.

I played a pretty **** good Peach today and I completely agree (with myself) that this match-up is a 50-50. It not only is about whether or not Peach makes mistakes and gets gimped BUT is also largely dependant on player skill. If it's a scrub who just happens to be playing Peach, the match-up will tilt in Kirby's favor. Is it's a scrub randomly playing Kirby, he'll get *****.

I think I'll go ahead and summarize this one over the weekend and we'll start Pikachu (**** in Pika favor) on Monday next week. (I'll go ahead and see is I can get Espy to prod K Prime into helping us out with explaining Pika's side (he's like,...a top 5 Pikachu, go look in the General Tactical Thread).

Before we get to that, Pika isn't really that bad, once you've played a few.

I've burnt out on my reasons for this matchup. I just think it's a hit trading fest. Each person will get one or two hits off, then both start camping each other and whoever comes up with the smartest read will be rewarded with one or two hits. You keep having to have good reads to get one hit off, it's ridiculously even.

50-50

It's even, IMO. And it's really gay. Peach camps turnips, Kirby camps Bair. Peach can chase her turnips in certain spacings with dash attack or fair to hit Kirby through his bair.

Kirby can't land his kill moves on Peach. Peach has no kill moves to land on Kirby. Peach edgeguards him pretty well.

Fsmash and ftilt beat Kirby's bair but must be spaced.

The match should go to time.

50-50

Praxis said:

The match should go to time.

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Hmm, isn't there another MU that usually goes that way? Nah, just my imagination .

Agreed, 50-50, both characters need to be careful and precise and hopefully outwit their opponent before they do the same to you.

On to Luigi.

I hate Luigi...

def not even, kirby has much much better offstage pressure game, and has an easier time getting back onstage. imo its slight advantage kirby. i'll go into why i think so later but right now im gonna pass out.

I'd like to say 55-45 Kirby, but I haven't played any peaches lately, but what Gantrain said was right, Kirby can recover any way he wants to, in a stalling, haphazard way if that's what the situation calls for. Peach, on the other hand (stump? nub?) has to (in no particular order) float, peach bomber, midair jump, and use parasol, the 1st and 3rd being negated if you drop a FF Bair on her, which reduces her already shabby vertical recovery. Throw a few Dairs in, and well... yeah.

And I recommend that you not pass out. Can be a safety hazard.

A1lion835 said:

If Kirby's bair isn't an essential part of a matchup, it's probably already ridiculously in his favor.

Bair can catch or cancel turnips, and FC can also be used to cancel them (though it's not as useful). Kirby shouldn't be doing risky stuff at high %'s because of Peach's fair, which is a punishing move that can KO. Peach is floaty (and can float) so she can escape both dthrow and fthrow strings with little difficulty. Peach can footstool Kirby out of an inhale, although she can be footstooled if she doesn't try (not something to hope for). To KO, Kirby should be using Bair (which can be refreshed with pummels if it's stale), edguarding or mixing in something else once in a while (dsmash, hyphen smash, hammer, etc.).

As for neutrals, FD and SV don't give any particular advantage to Kirby, Battlefield can block turnips, but the real gold neutral for Kirby is YI. The tilting platform messes up floating and turnips, and the slanting ground is a pain for floating techniques.

For CPs, I know PS1 is good for Kirby (when is it not?), and I imagine JJ and RC would also be good (JJ for the high ceiling, RC because it's a good Kirby stage). I think I remember something about Peach beasting on RC, or it being contraversial, or something...I'll have to check that.

Edit: Couldn't find any posts talking about it, but I still have a bad feeling about it.

Also: Turnips! Don't underestimate them. The rarer ones can deal tons of damage (Peach mains should have more exact knowledge about this, and probably have all the probabilities of pulling what kinds out and stuff) and they can be used to make us waste jumps offstage. With a turnip in hand, Peach has a 3-frame attack OoS (that's at least 2 frames faster than any of Kirby's attacks and has more range than any of them), so that's another reason to be worried about them.

Click to expand...

I totally agree with this.. Kirby's back Air obliderates EVERYTHING Peach does. Anything offensive at least (And throwing a turnip is Offensive). The only way to really get on Kirby's weak side it through set up. Throwing early turnips into the air and following up with N air after dodges or attempts to item catch is a GREAT way to get him off his game.. but that's only as he's recovering. Saddly enough, Peach is totaly a mindgame character, which is why most fights with Peach are 50/50, 45/50. I've still yet to beat my friends Kirby with my Peach (or with any character for that matter).. but even then, I'd have to admit he is prob the best Kirby in Texas... Important thing is, that the match up is close. It's all up to the players mind to battle each other. I hate having to resort to using mind games in a forum as an example of strategy, but when it comes down to this, that's all this matchup is.

This match up is STRICTLY 45/55 in Kirby's favor.