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Wario's Week 31 Matchup Discussion: Lucas.

Padô

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 2, 2007
Messages
1,562
Location
São Paulo, Brazil
This week:

LUCAS

I'll post later about this matchup I got a lil experience here.
Please guys try to vote this time, last Ike discussion was so dumb and we got a triple tie on 60-40, 65-35 and 70-30.

Good discussion!
 

Humpy Thrashabout

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
294
I play this matchup A LOT. I actually think it's even.

Lucas' SH Nair eats everything. It's generally his biggest damage builder. If it's auto-canceled it also leads into a bunch of stuff.
His jab comes out very very fast. Don't get baited by stuff that looks like it should be laggy.
At far distances I've seen PK freeze used to bait an approach. I always feel like I have time, but if he brings the freeze right in front of him you have to air dodge or shield and you get frame trapped. He can also move the freeze to directly behind him.
When offstage he'll generally use PK thunder to try and boff up your recovery. Don't use bike when you are near it. Nair and Fair cancel the thunder ONLY IF YOU HIT THE HEAD, I've hit the tail countless times and gotten all kinds of screwed up.
He can kill you at really really low damages. Full hop dair traps you in and makes you have to tech the ground, but because you're bouncing in the air it's easy to miss. If you miss he'll auto-cancel into d-tilt or f-tilt. F-tilt will make you do that getup thing where you don't get to attack or roll (what is the name of that?) and he'll get a free Upsmash or Fsmash.
Don't try to punish FH Dair from anywhere but above. It's really safe on your shield for him and he'll just continue to AC them and do more until you're forced to roll or drop shield.
Edgeguarding is frustrating. His recovery goes really far. He could make it back from just about anywhere. Don't chase him offstage unless you're confident you can get there before he PK thunders. And don't assume he'll pick any certain direction, he'll go straight up if you're far enough offstage. It'll give him enough DI to land on the stage fairly easily.

I guess a lot of this matchup relies heavily on SDI, but if you're not good at that it'll be pretty difficult.
 

Gichan

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
2,837
Location
Toronto, Ontario
is it guaranteed? And I thought we were able to grab again after ground release. Another thing, everytime I try to do something after ground release, he gets air released instead, anyway I can stop this?
 

toobusytocare

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
1,295
Location
Seattle, Washington
is it guaranteed? And I thought we were able to grab again after ground release. Another thing, everytime I try to do something after ground release, he gets air released instead, anyway I can stop this?
no you cant grab again.
jab grab doesnt work either.

in order to force a ground release you have to keep pummeling, because if they hit jump or up on the control stick, they will air release unless they break in the middle of a pummel (so keep pummeling)
I thought all wario mains knew this? lol

basically you can just mash towards them with the c stick while you have them grabbed that way you pummel and you dont run the risk of messing up the fsmash lol
 

Humpy Thrashabout

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
294
I used to mash the c-stick like that when I was doing pummels with Bowser. I stopped after I realized that about half of the time it was making me jump after the opponent releases. I have no idea why it was doing that and I'm not sure if Wario does the same thing.

Just something to keep in mind.
 

Waymas

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 30, 2008
Messages
464
Location
Mexico
just to let u guys know pkfire > wario bike , grab release him to sum combinatios is really useful , and yea edgeguarding him can be a pain but possible , nair is uber fast and can be canceled to other moves
 

Padô

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 2, 2007
Messages
1,562
Location
São Paulo, Brazil
Lucas is pretty much ****ed up with all our approach options.

He needs to play perfectly to don't get wafted or FSmashed at kill percents. Our grabs will **** him so hard and, we can rack up easily some damage by GR FSmash him which gives us 23% advantage if you pummel him 2 times. If you are not attempting to grab him just play OoS and you should be fine racking some good damage,
We don't really need to gimp him just wait for his use of UpB then fart on his head to kill him at 80% or 70% considering he is out of the stage.

Watch out for vertical approaches his UpAir is nasty and can kill us really easily if baited properly. USmash got a starge long lasting hit box too and kills us at 90% if above the Battlefield highest platform. And his Nair is so annoying OoS so wacthout for those moves and his **** PkFire will SOMETIMES if not shielded correctly keep you away from him.

Overall: 65-35 Wario
 

Humpy Thrashabout

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
294
Disregard this post. I was going to give numbers, but I remembered I don't GR because the Lucas I play is a good friend of mine. Anything I give would be skewed.
 
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