Ness Doubles Discussion

I wish I could add more than what I will, which is just an opinion and some obvious stuff, but I think Ness is MUCH better in doubles than singles.
This really all depends on your playstyle, but personally for me, I need to stay away from my teammate, cause I don't wanna throw a midrange attack like PK Fire and have it accidentally hitting my partner. Same reason you have to be incredibly careful with PKT2.
G&W is a good Ness partner.
Oh, and you can throw out PK Thunder to save your teammate that's off the ledge :D Peach can survive for a while with Ness...

Double Ness is pretty fun, because the healing can happen fast if you know how to do it right.

I usually team with a Snake...and it's great, because he lives forever and I'm a stock tank. We both kill fast. Also he can save me if he really needs to, I learned to tech pretty fast

ZSS is also great, because it's quick health. *waits for Shaky or NickRiddle* They could explain more.

magnet wind is your friend for both setting up combos and halting your fwiend from fwying.....

make sure your partner can react quickly and recover also, because you need a backup in case you fail to pkt the right way or if someone steals your thunder....

ZSS for heaing = top tier....

ask other people for the rest.... I don't doubles often.

Ness + Zero Suit Samus
ViceGrip and FadedImage
ViceGrip and WarpStatus (Not sure what's going on there yet)
Shaky and NickRiddle - I haven't actually seen Ness and ZSS in many matches. The only thing I can remember off the top of my head is the ending of ViceGrip's "Serious BidNESS" highlight video with FadedImage trapping the enemy and ViceGrip getting the kill.

Ness + Lucario
Chrono_Cross + Solace - I've fought these two in the past. Nothing too amazing except that free health does really help a lot.

Ness + Falco
FOW and SK92 - I've seen some videos, and Falco is alright with Ness, but I don't really see this being that great of a team.

Ness + Samus
Uffe and Dryn - It's pretty much the same thing as Ness and Lucario. It really helps Samus, too, that way Ness can get easy KO's.

Ness + Lucas
Smash64 and Tyr - I believe it was Smash64 and Tyr. I haven't really seen much of this, though. Probably the whole free health idea, though. The pros of this team, though, is that they have the same counterpicks.

Ness + Snake
Yink and Joker - I've seen a few set ups from these two, but I've yet to see more. An amazing KO was done by these two. Joker grabbed the enemy, laided him down and Yink had PK Flash set up and the rest is history.

Uffe said:

Ness + Zero Suit Samus
I haven't actually seen Ness and ZSS in many matches.

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Me and NickRiddle have about 20 matches uploaded, Vicegrip and Warp have about 4.

I always team with a Olimar =O
Ness can help olimar a lot offstage..
I think it's not a bad team though, Oli his ground game with ness his air game is too good.

Shaky said:

Me and NickRiddle have about 20 matches uploaded, Vicegrip and Warp have about 4.

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Thanks for the suggestion, Shaky.

I randomly found this when I was wandering the other boards (actually after watching some of Shaky/NickRiddle matches): http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=260661.

It somewhat underrates Ness though.

I did team with a Mr. Game & Watch back in early 2009. I can't remember who my teammate was, though. Still, we had some very interesting matches against the other team, and I was only able to save one replay.

Surprised no one's mentioned Ness/Pika or Ness/Fox. Really quick projectiles for HP replenish, and both characters can benefit from an offensive Ness setting up for big kills.

Ness + Diddy with the whole banana shenanigans. Of course that could get real messy if your teammate isn't careful.

I had the pleasure of playing against a Ness+Lucas team (of 64 and Tyr) and it looks like a hell of a cool combination and was really fun playing Mario Bros against it (me playing my main.) I also think that Mario + Ness wouldn't be that bad because I feel Mario would help in certain areas.

Both Mario and Ness can juggle and Mario could catch early gimps off stage that Ness would miss (gotta be careful not to gimp Ness himself) Fireballs are quick refills for health and cape could do wonders for Ness's Mindgame aerials or b-moves (like bair and PK fire). Ness picks up for Mario's inability to kill and Mario constantly pops characters into the air for a good Ness air game.

I would think that DK + Ness wouldn't be too bad either. DK kills stupid early and Ness can wrack up damage like a Mofo (I also tertiary Ness).

I might be following in Yink's footsteps and starting to team with a Snake.

O wise one, please teach me thine secrets.

I agree with Juu above on the DK thing, although I think Ness/Mario would require a stupid amount of coordination. I don't think it would work outside of a casual setting.

@Delta: The secret?
SPOILER ALERT:



jk

Ive teamed with many teammates in my time

Ness/Ness
Ness/Lucas
Ness/GnW
Ness/Pika
Ness/Yoshi
Ness/ PKMN Trainer

Ness Ness is probably one of Ness' best teams if both players excel because its easy to learn combos. And you can save your teammate when his recovery gets messed up with pkt, of course this can always happen but since ness' recovery is long its easier to read. The neg is just recovery imo. If you can read your opponent's throws too you can do some great stuff. Ive team with Vice in friendlies before and we wrecked **** up with no real talking Ive also teamed with other Nesses and its a great team. Oh yeah, and more pk fire is more of a chance to land it...and when you land it in dubz, oooo.
Lots of combos, but ill say some. I cp luigis mansions oemtimes because you can pk fire those pillars then ahve ur partner jump in and magnet the fire pillar.

Ness/Lucas is probably better, but i havent done it in tourney so im gunna leave it blank.

Ness/GnW is really good. His upB saves us pretty good. And you fill up the bucket like nothing, especially if they eat a pillar. A weak bucket is still better than nothing. One pkthunder+ anything should be enough to KO at most percents.
Cp Corneria if youre ballsy and know how to recover. Free buckets from lasers, free healing from lasers.

Ness/Pika is probably pretty good, but i did it once and I think i was having a bad day cause I failed bad. anyway Thunder is amazing, jump in and just make sure you dont get hit byt he ground hit box for free healing. Pikas neutral b isnt that fast for free healing, most opponents can interrupt it. Pika can save us with a neutral b tho. Time your aerial pk fires right, if pika lands a dsmash you can nail the foe and then start a "combo" This team it hink is better focusing on working on one opponent at a time rather than just two 1v1s.
CP Delfino? Idk pikas cps but i lurrrvvveee Delfino :D Or Brinstar if its allowed.

Ness/Yoshi
You can pk thunder him if he fux up his recover. his dair *****...catch opponents coming out of it... not the best team.

Ness/PKMN
Ness can save ivysaur...keep him aliveee... If they get caught in bullet, take the opportunity to follow up with an aerial, pkf, pkt, or pkt2.
Squirtle's an aerial beast like Ness. Ness can rack up more damage and Squirtle can kill. With good synergy, i feel they can chain moves off each other well.
Charizards got Rock Smash, lol. uhhh...oh yeah fire heals a whooollleeee lot very fast. You shold stay alive for a while.

Thats about all I know. I feel Ness excels in doubles more than he does in singles.

smash64 said:

i actually wanna team with a Mario soon, you or Xero...

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I'm up for it, though it'd probably be a safe bet to get Xero to team for now. I'm reeeeaaally in a slump atm and trying to get out of it.

I've teamed with Pit and Lucario.

Teaming with Pit was good because he can save you when you are offstage, arrows can heal you, and he has multihit moves to rack up damage.

Teaming with Lucario was good. He kinda plays similarly to Ness in teams. His recovery is bad, but he can heal you, rack up damage rather well and kill when he is at high percentage.

I've also teamed with Wario as well.

The most important thing in doubles is communication imo. Whether you have an unspoken acknowledgement of each other or spoken commands. Being on the same page will win you matches more than skill alone. A missed heal, a misplaced smash, or missing saving your partner is too costly.

Also.... on a side note. Teaming with Mario has the chance for a possible OHKO. I haven't tested it but a fully charged PK Flash when Mario and your opponent are together and Mario capes it could do critical damage to your opponent. Just saying.

Something epic for you to try, smash64?!

Please, welcome me to Ness boards. I have mained Ness since 01/2009.
Hi, Uffe. I finally made it here. I try to be active.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xDT_N8E05M

We tried out few combos like this with a friend. This is easy to start up with Pika fthrow to Ness dair and quick to finish with Pika usmash. The enemy can DI in this, but not entirely out of it if comboing players follow that DI.

Something similar also works with
Ness+Any jab locker
Ness+Falco - Falco dthrow to Ness dair. LAZOORZ.
Ness+Lucas - Hard to start up. Dtilts. Lucas usmash. Looks very cool.

Also PsiM pwns in 2vs1. Your teammate grabs, throws and you use that windbox to send the opponent to ground or to your teammates attack.
Ness+Pika for example: Pika fthrows, Ness is close to Pika and releases PsiM. If timed rite the opponent should drop back to Pikas grab. Works as a cg to ~70%, and then teh opponent falls and you can start that lock in the vid.
Example 2: Ness+Lucas: Lucas fthrows and Ness releases PsiM, and then my teammate usually dsmashes.

My Allisbrawl doubles ladder teammates have been Snake/D3 player and Lucas. I havent played that much, tho.

Im going to my first tourney next month. Theres no Brawl singles, tho. Cuz here in Finland active smashers are mostly Melee players. But Im going to Brawl doubles with Lucas mainer, yeahuzz.

I've been running Ness on teams here at OUGA. It's soooo fun, you might see me using more Ness if/whenever I do doubles.

Yeah, I tested out that cape thing I talked about a few posts ago. Although it does massive damage, it doesn't appear to be a OHKO. Maybe I have bad timing but I tried a bunch. It does around 65% damage though.
During the PK Flash hit, Mario turns him around and apparently it cancels any sort of launch.

I've really only teamed with 3 people when playing Ness
Lucas
Kirby
G+W

Kirby, despite both are pretty good at doubles play theres just only a limited amount you can go do so most the time I find you'll be doing solo game play instead of working as a team, but last time I teamed with a Kirby I was pretty meh.

G+W is always a good doubles partner, he can save you using UAir which helps with Ness' poor recovery, G+W down thrown can lead into kills moves if you can read the opponent and major factor is the bucket, it only takes one PK fire to completely fill it if it's in its second state.

Lucas is pretty awesome due to their similarities, yet this is also their short comings. Unless you know your partner well or you have a big stage, expect to cop a PK fire in the face occasional, any even if you absorb it an opponent may be able to punish the end lag of the move.
If both you and Lucas are off stage on the same side in close proximity, expect one of you to die, so you may need to work out who would be better living.
Apart from that you can have good fun with Ness and Lucas, if you both kill your opponents at the same time you can heal each other a good 30% before they get back if you plan correctly.
When it's 2v1 you can both juggle using Pk thunder to rack up % or one person can projectile the opponent while the other kills.

Although remember in most doubles battle, moves such as PKT2 is pretty risky if you hit your team mate (I have before), with kills moves your best utilising Back Throw and BAir I find.

And I agree with Jiffy, especially with Ness you either need to know your team mate inside out, or need to be able to communicate well as so many of Ness' double strats are a double sided knife.

For Kirby/ness, dthrow>psimag wind>Kirby dtilt sets up a jab lock.... Not too difficult to set up if you know what to do.

I thought i played someone on wifi through the chat and we experimented with all this... Oh well.

That Rawl doubles tournament that I told ya about ended like this. There was about 17 teams.

1. Skinutski+Zumma (D3 & MK)
2. Vurkyzo & LzR (Ness & MK)
3. Loota & Schwa (Snake & Kirby)
4. Jage & Fyro (Snake & Ike)

My teammate didn't come so I teamed with random (I havent had played against or with him before):

7. Susi+Cimo (Ness & Wario)
vs. Riolu & Mursustaja (Ganon & Lucario) (We won)
vs. Goodbye & Afoku (GnW & Wario) (They knocked us to losers bracket)
vs. Nipi & Pallokissa (Marth & Marth) (Lol they cp'd lylat as a double marf team)
vs. Loota & Schwa (Snake & Kirby) (They knocked us out of the tournament)

Eagleye893 said:

For Kirby/ness, dthrow>psimag wind>Kirby dtilt sets up a jab lock.... Not too difficult to set up if you know what to do.

I thought i played someone on wifi through the chat and we experimented with all this... Oh well.

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Vids or it didn't happen.

How bout a "get on the xat chat and I'll show you cause it did happen"

the only thing is that it could POSSIBLY be teched, but you can alter the timing to make it a missed tech or just something else. Also fthrow to psimag wind to Kirby nair may possibly work... Stricter wind timing though.