Diddy Kong's Barrels of Matchups~ Character #17~ Lucario

DFEAR · Mar 26, 2010

Discuss da furry. Input as MUCH info as needed + the following.

Both Characters Air Game Against Each Other:
Both Characters Ground Game Against Each Other:
Moves To Avoid and HOW to avoid them:
Diddy's Moves to Utilize In The Matchup:
Personal Strategies To Help With Matchup:
Overall Character Ratio:

Grizzer · Mar 27, 2010

dont have much time to write anything, but i know it's not very smart to shoot peanuts here (player 1 might disagree) cause he can shoot an aura sphere on reaction and hit you in the ending lag O.o its very scary... he can even do it when he predicts a glide toss

most of the time, the aura sphere will hit harder

and if it wasnt charged it'll at least ensure you cant follow-up

also, expect them to roll... alot o.O because its impossible to punish a lucario that rolls behind you, IF you were doing ANYTHING, so if he sees you use a Dtilt, Ftilt, Fsmash, Dsmash, (utilt and usmash not really usefull here :S) he can just roll behind you and grab

lucario's Fsmash has pretty much zero lag, he can keep spamming it just outside of your range if you dont have a banana, he can shield everything you have oos (after the fsmash) or he can roll away and punish you with an AS (if you used sideB for example)

if lucario is above you, expect the Dair (obvious FTW), but it IS possible to time a Uair between Dairs

also, lucarios trip animation is veeeery short, and if you arent fast enough, i found it actually hard to hit him with more than 2 bananas

but that can be just me...

hope this helps more than it does wrong XD

TreK · Mar 27, 2010

I don't know much about Lucario, Grizzer summed up most of what I would have said... I just wanted to add that Lucario is like a black hole to me. You know, black holes are always tinier and heavier than you'd think... That dude's got one sexy hurtbox, and he's as heavy as Link... It's just against my mind, I can't help but spam smashes at 115 while I should start killing at 130... And if your kills are stale against a Lucario, chances are you won't see him dying until he's at 200%...

I also wanted to know what do you cp and ban against Lucario. I usually CP Castle Siege because I can refresh my moves on the second part and put some good pressure on the third part. I like Lylat too because slopes don't stop bananas as much as they stop auraballs.

DFEAR · Mar 28, 2010

MAGICIAN!

i would only worry about this character after 120% :\ otherwise just dont get hit lol

phi1ny3 · Mar 29, 2010

rofl people underestimate 'dem setups + camping.

Be careful around Lucario with a banana in hand + AS.

Luc jab imo is very handy for him since it's pretty obvious he won't be landing his other moves so cleanly (namely ftilt, fsmash, etc.), and gives him good leverage (as does utilt).

learn to insta-throw, Lucario imo should use bananas more actively in the MU (maybe not directly entirely, but people really forget how much power Lucario has when he is on the defensive), the risk to reward (and considering Luc's options aren't too bad with a banana) is pretty good, and get used to mixing up your glidetosses with aerial banana throws, Lucario has some nifty stuff for both if you aren't being smart and shuffling.

and if you can, avoid getting offstage at all costs, that's Arsenic for Diddy, Lucario has some really silly traps for harassing and edgeguarding in this MU.

I'd give the nod for Diddy's favor, but I'd say it's pretty close to even (probably 45:55 Diddy's favor). I feel that Lucario's metagame hasn't caught up with this MU, but my opinions are reserved for the future, for now, Lucario has some limitations in this MU because of how unsafe it is for him, especially for landing that killing blow onstage.

I've played a couple of diddys (several + Felix), so I hope this was helpful. I'm not nearly as skilled as Felix though, so he crushes me really hard lol

win_ftw · Mar 29, 2010

i always try and keep a bannana behind me to protect against lucario's roll dodge, cause its **** quick. if you play smart and on the defensive side, it should be easy. save your smashes for around 130% so you dont stale em and get ***** by giga-damage-lucario.

*spikes possible against the Up-B*

phi1ny3 · Mar 30, 2010

Oh yeah, unless he reads a spotdodge or is edgeguarding you, he should never be fsmashing (and you should never get hit by it either unless under those circumstances), way too punishable for Diddy.

Robin1613 · Mar 31, 2010

Both Characters Air Game Against Each Other:
Lucario's F-air out prioritizes all of our aerials except fair? His aerials link into each other giving you some nasty damage in the process. The only useful Aerial i see for Diddy is Fair and Bair.

Both Characters Ground Game Against Each Other:
Lucario's Fsmash is almost lagless, outspaces our fastest smash (dsmash). What i usually do if im ever facing a lucario i spam d-tilt seeing as how Lucario is deceivingly heavily. It also works well as a shield pressure and can force Lucario into a bad situation if spaced correctly.

Moves To Avoid and HOW to avoid them:
Avoid lucario's jab combos they rack up damage really quickly and we all dont want that. You could always bait the jabs and shieldgrab them. Aura sphere is a pain in the ***, it can break our peanuts and when fully charged collides with our naners, staying in the air is my route while spacing any oncoming approaches with my bair.

Diddy's Moves to Utilize In The Matchup:
Bananas, always keep one in hand really you don't wanna get caught without one. D-tilt, good for on-ground spacing as well as setups. peanuts, spamming peanuts can interfere with Lucarios recovery and can possibly lead to a early gimp if used correctly.

Personal Strategies To Help With Matchup:
Spacing with bair while in the air, spamming naners while on ground, using peanuts to disturb lucarios recovery.

Overall Character Ratio:
Over all id say its 60/40 Diddy's Favor

phi1ny3 · Mar 31, 2010

Wut<whatisthisidonteven>

sai_:) · Apr 3, 2010

@Grizzer I disagree about u-tilt its my favorite way to kill a lucario. Killing him off the side is a huge pain in the *** but Lucario dies at decent percentages from the top. So if he's at 140 or 150 ish, believe it or not u-tilt can often times be a better option than a smash attack.

Lucarios f-smash is also a big pain in the *** so watch out for it on the ledge. him placing his f-smashes effectively can REALLY mess with your ledge options.

Try to keep a banana in hand as often as possible because Lucario can be difficult to punish over all.

If he tries to Dair you in your shield its actually less threatening than it appears. there's an okay amount of after lag for you to punish it. U-tilts a good option for this so at higher percentages if he dairs your shield you might be able to get a free quick kill out of it.

Diddy's Fair and Bair are quite useful overall but Lucario's fair can be pretty tricky as well at lower percentages.

Once lucario gets to higher percentages he will often times really start spamming that f-smash. Learn the spacing on it because it WILL kill you far earlier than you would think. Its absolutely imperative that you don't use your kill move(most likely d-smash) until about 160

Also as its been said earlier be REALLY careful shooting peanuts cause Aura sphere wrecks them.

When it comes to your grabs your u-throw is fantastic to abuse. Lucario doesnt really have too many options above you except for Dair and its pretty easy to punish.

Over all I'd say its around 55-45 lucario mainly because its pretty difficult to actually kill him...and its pretty easy for us to die.

Play very safely and cut out all unnecessary approaches, try not to peanut camp much, watch out for F-smash and abuse u-throw.

AvaricePanda · Apr 4, 2010

I hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate this matchup. Not sure why, but I have a lot of trouble with his jab, F-air, and aura-sphere, and it doesn't help that I can't kill either.

I can't contribute much because I'm at a loss for this match-up, lol

Gnes · Apr 5, 2010

Lee martin is re-defining this matchup...but as of now...
55-45 diddy is the least...60-40 at worst

Grizzer · Apr 5, 2010

sai90 said:
@Grizzer I disagree about u-tilt its my favorite way to kill a lucario. Killing him off the side is a huge pain in the *** but Lucario dies at decent percentages from the top. So if he's at 140 or 150 ish, believe it or not u-tilt can often times be a better option than a smash attack.

Lucarios f-smash is also a big pain in the *** so watch out for it on the ledge. him placing his f-smashes effectively can REALLY mess with your ledge options.

Try to keep a banana in hand as often as possible because Lucario can be difficult to punish over all.

If he tries to Dair you in your shield its actually less threatening than it appears. there's an okay amount of after lag for you to punish it. U-tilts a good option for this so at higher percentages if he dairs your shield you might be able to get a free quick kill out of it.

Diddy's Fair and Bair are quite useful overall but Lucario's fair can be pretty tricky as well at lower percentages.

Once lucario gets to higher percentages he will often times really start spamming that f-smash. Learn the spacing on it because it WILL kill you far earlier than you would think. Its absolutely imperative that you don't use your kill move(most likely d-smash) until about 160

Also as its been said earlier be REALLY careful shooting peanuts cause Aura sphere wrecks them.

When it comes to your grabs your u-throw is fantastic to abuse. Lucario doesnt really have too many options above you except for Dair and its pretty easy to punish.

Over all I'd say its around 55-45 lucario mainly because its pretty difficult to actually kill him...and its pretty easy for us to die.

Play very safely and cut out all unnecessary approaches, try not to peanut camp much, watch out for F-smash and abuse u-throw.

i didnt mean that utilt isnt usefull at all, just not when you are barely in dtilt range :D
utilt might be good if lucario is on a platform, but most of the time utilt wont stand a chance against lucario's dair

besides, lucario can wavebounce to get next to you (might even be with a fully charged AS)
and, i wonder, how exactly would you punish a dair? on shield, in mid air, anything, tell me, I WANNA KNOW XD

DFEAR · Apr 5, 2010

Grizzer said:
how exactly would you punish a dair? on shield, in mid air, anything, tell me, I WANNA KNOW XD

on shield you can upair/fair Oos offensively or roll away RIGHT when he hits your shield.
midair you have to airdodge away lol dont like him chase you with nair/fair/bair

phi1ny3 · Apr 5, 2010

Diddy fair has so much range lol.

Banana's don't clank with AS, so be smart with how you throw them, if you have the percent advantage be more patient (I'm sure you will for like 80% of the time in this MU). Do not get too greedy at higher percents where it counts, Lucario would love a slip-up, especially if it sends you offstage. Lucario gets really campy at higher percent, you really have to bait something bad then maul him. Get deep inside his small zone (where his only options are jab, utilt, or grab), then chew him up. It takes some guessing as to what he'll do, but his smarter option tends to be sticking around in the air outside of Diddy's immediate SH aerial range.

I'd say it's 55:45 Diddy's favor pretty much.

Gnes · Apr 5, 2010

U can smash DI out of lucario's dair, though smash Di'ing doesn't leave u the option of punishing it because of the stun, it does allow u to avoid the "heavy" part of the attack

phi1ny3 · Apr 6, 2010

usually outspacing dair is your better option, it isn't like MK's with a huge horizontal range, so if you catch him in it and you aren't being pressured, smack him.

Oh yeah, avoid getting grabbed at high percents, Lucario fthrow does 12-14% at high aura, and combine that with lucario's mega fast pummels (which do about 1.2-1.4% each at higher percents) and he can get a huge chunk of damage.

Masterchef1123 · Apr 9, 2010

Lylat cruise best stage choice.

VonDarkmoon · Sep 5, 2010

For those who might not know, remember that Aura also increases Lucario's hitboxes as well as his damage. So at higher percentages you'll probably need to work on re-spacing quite a bit.

Also, he has a side-b chaingrab on a few chars, is diddy one of them? (i doubt it but might still be good to know).

Ingulit · Sep 5, 2010

You just contradicted yourself: if we're working on spacing, we shouldn't get hit by a very short-range chaingrab ;P

Even if he does, it doesn't do a lot of damage anyway and doesn't put us in a bad position afterward.

Count · Sep 5, 2010

I think he can do two side b's and then an uptilt or something. Not a huge deal.

Choice · Sep 7, 2010

side b should never chain. you can struggle out a lot easier than you struggle out of a pummel at low %.

phi1ny3 · Sep 8, 2010

^What he said

it isn't a true CG rofl (hasn't been since 2008 pretty much), although it's a decent kill throw that can be primed to activate on frame 1 on the ground while starting it in the air.

VonDarkmoon said:
For those who might not know, remember that Aura also increases Lucario's hitboxes as well as his damage. So at higher percentages you'll probably need to work on re-spacing quite a bit.

Also, he has a side-b chaingrab on a few chars, is diddy one of them? (i doubt it but might still be good to know).

most of this is kinda wrong, no offense. The only move that gets bigger in hitbox size is AS (neut. B), the changes are in knockback, damage, and shieldstun (moves get safer on block).

SideB is a good linking move with fair strings, DA, or dash grab afterwards though, and at high aura, that can get ugly (unless you're at high percent as well lol).

TheLastCacely · Sep 8, 2010

which way do u smash di lucarios dair ? left or right? or does it matter? and is it helpful to use a move while sdIng?

Choice · Sep 9, 2010

what about sdi up? then maybe spike or somethin?

phi1ny3 · Sep 9, 2010

lol I doubt you can spike after SDI, lucario dair ends on frame 28, but that would be sooo nasty lol...
besides, SDI up is not the way, you just want to SDI out to the side, since the hitbox is huge vertically, but meh horizontally.
I can see Diddy SDIing on the ground and doing a smash/tilt or possible fair/uair though.

idk, b/c tbh I have had a lot of people only accidentally SDI it and I usually have enough advantage to just jab/nair afterwards, lucario dair is pretty SDIable if predicted though.

Diddy in particular has a really easy time getting out of it, his awkward hurtbox or something... *shrugs*

Choice · Sep 15, 2010

his hurtbox just kinda curls up when being hit.

la meka · Jan 22, 2011

lucario es bueno pero solo los principiantes juegan con el

SaveMeJebus · Jan 22, 2011

Can we F-air his aura sphere?

Player-1 · Jan 22, 2011

you can jab his aura spheres, aura spheres priority is ****.

Ingulit · Jan 22, 2011

Player-1 said:
you can jab his aura spheres, aura spheres priority is ****.

At all percent/stock differences? If so then our Jab has some ******** (good) priority

Player-1 · Jan 22, 2011

no, but it doesn't start beating our jab until the higher percents. I'm telling you lucario's spehere's priority is really bad

SaveMeJebus · Jan 22, 2011

what do we have that can cancel out a fully charged sphere from a high percent Lucario?

Player-1 · Jan 22, 2011

depends on the percent

SaveMeJebus · Jan 22, 2011

Max aura lucario

Player-1 · Jan 22, 2011

peanuts obv

phi1ny3 · Jan 25, 2011

Player-1 said:
you can jab his aura spheres, aura spheres priority is ****.

all about that 8% rule.

It would be tight to have a transcendent AS though.

I've seen it happen, but at the same time it seems a tad risky, just in trade, although it is admittedly funny.

FCAS at 0% = 13% (fresh), uncharged = 5% After 25%, it scales up to 26% fully charged, 10% uncharged (not counting stock).

Ban frigate btw, Lucario loves this stage against Diddy, if you haven't seen the evidence from Junebug v. Felix/Lie.

Player-1 said:
peanuts obv

lol

Diddy Kong's Barrels of Matchups~ Character #17~ Lucario

Smash Hero

Smash Journeyman

Is "that guy"

Smash Hero

Not the Mama

Smash Cadet

Not the Mama

Smash Journeyman

Not the Mama

Smash Ace

Smash Lord

Smash Master

Smash Journeyman

Smash Hero

Not the Mama

Smash Master

Not the Mama

Smash Apprentice

Smash Apprentice

Ing-u-lit

Smash Champion

Smash Champion

Not the Mama

Smash Hero

Smash Champion

Not the Mama

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Smash Rookie

Smash Master

Smash Legend

Ing-u-lit

Smash Legend

Smash Master

Smash Legend

Smash Master

Smash Legend

Not the Mama

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