Best/Worst Spotdodges & Rolls

Even though it doesn't matter in a competitive sense, there are characters that shine when it comes to spotdodging (cough D3 cough) and rolling (Lucario).

Does anyone have a list from best to worst? It would be something good to know, as there are few things better than punishing a noob that rolls constantly (I'm looking at you Samus).

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=236133
Dodges and Rolls duration and invincibility

How to read this:
2-20 / 25 Mario
Invincibility duration
Total number of frames

Spot Dodge

2-20 / 22 Link
2-20 / 22 Pikachu
2-20 / 22 Falco
2-20 / 22 Yoshi
2-20 / 22 Toon Link
2-20 / 24 Marth

2-20 / 25 Mario
2-20 / 25 Samus
2-20 / 25 Zero Suit Samus
2-20 / 25 Kirby
2-20 / 25 Fox
2-20 / 25 Game & Watch
2-20 / 25 Luigi
2-20 / 25 Diddy
2-20 / 25 Zelda
2-20 / 25 Sheik
2-20 / 25 Pit
2-20 / 25 Metaknight
2-20 / 25 Squirtle
2-20 / 25 Ivysaur
2-20 / 25 Charizard
2-20 / 25 Ike
2-20 / 25 Snake
2-20 / 25 Peach
2-20 / 25 Ganondorf
2-20 / 25 Ice Climbers
2-20 / 25 Wolf
2-20 / 25 Lucario
2-20 / 25 Ness
2-20 / 25 Sonic
2-20 / 25 Wario
2-20 / 25 R.O.B
2-20 / 25 Captain Falcon
2-20 / 25 Lucas

3-20 / 25 Olimar
3-16 / 25 Jigglypuff
2-20 / 27 King Dedede
2-23 / 30 Donkey Kong
3-24 / 32 Bowser



Back Roll

4-19 / 27 Lucario
4-19 / 29 Diddy
4-19 / 29 Squirtle

4-20 / 31 Kirby
4-19 / 31 Donkey Kong
4-19 / 31 Fox
4-19 / 31 Pikachu
4-19 / 31 Luigi
4-19 / 31 Zelda
4-19 / 31 Sheik
4-19 / 31 Falco
4-19 / 31 Lucas
4-19 / 31 Wolf
4-19 / 31 Ness
4-19 / 31 Sonic
4-19 / 31 Ganondorf
4-19 / 31 Ice Climbers
4-19 / 31 Captain Falcon
5-20 / 31 Peach

4-19 / 32 Jigglypuff
4-19 / 32 Mario
4-19 / 32 King Dedede
4-19 / 32 Ivysaur
4-19 / 32 Olimar
4-17 / 32 Pit

4-19 / 33 Snake
4-12 / 33 Metaknight
4-21 / 34 R.O.B
4-23 / 35 Marth
4-19 / 35 G&W
4-19 / 36 Charizard

4-21 / 37 Wario
4-19 / 37 Ike
4-19 / 37 Link
4-19 / 37 Zero Suit Samus
4-19 / 37 Yoshi
4-19 / 37 Toon Link
5-20 / 39 Bowser
4-23 / 44 Samus


Foward Roll

5-12 / 23 Metaknight
4-19 / 27 Lucario
4-17 / 27 Pit
4-15 / 27 Zero Suit Samus
4-19 / 29 Diddy
4-19 / 29 Squirtle

4-20 / 31 Kirby
4-19 / 31 Donkey Kong
4-19 / 31 Fox
4-19 / 31 Pikachu
4-19 / 31 Luigi
4-19 / 31 Zelda
4-19 / 31 Sheik
4-19 / 31 Falco
4-19 / 31 Peach
4-19 / 31 Ganondorf
4-19 / 31 Ice Climbers
4-19 / 31 Wolf
4-19 / 31 Ness
4-19 / 31 Sonic
4-19 / 31 Captain Falcon
4-19 / 31 Lucas

3-19 / 32 Jigglypuff
4-19 / 32 Mario
4-19 / 32 Ivysaur
4-19 / 32 King Dedede
4-19 / 32 Olimar

4-19 / 33 Ike
4-21 / 34 R.O.B
4-19 / 34 Yoshi
4-19 / 35 Charizard
4-19 / 35 Marth
4-19 / 35 G&W
4-17 / 35 Snake

4-21 / 37 Wario
4-19 / 37 Link
4-19 / 37 Toon Link
5-20 / 39 Bowser
4-23 / 44 Samus

Hope frame data helps in some way.

Also, I'd like to know the length of everyone's roll. So if someone could order them from best to worst that be great.

I have a really noob question, when should you roll and spotdodge? I tend to just do them instinctively.

I don't think you should ever roll (unless you are lucario). Just walk or jump out.

Also, thanks!

It may be useful to note that Dedede remains in the background even after his invulnerability frames end and thus many attacks (especially thin projectiles like Pit's arrows) will still miss him even after frame 20.

There may be other characters that this happens to, but I'm not sure who they are.

I didn't know that spotdodges had so little lag @_@.

However, remember that that list only includes invincibility frames. Frames in the background, as well as distance covered is unfortunately not listed. D:

I'm assuming air dodge frame data = spot dodge?

Also, what about startup frames? I'm a newb and was playing some games online and inoticed a lag between when invul frames were active and when i pressed the air dodge button.

Wasn't sure if it was lag or not.

Thanks

mangojuice said:

I'm assuming air dodge frame data = spot dodge?

Also, what about startup frames? I'm a newb and was playing some games online and inoticed a lag between when invul frames were active and when i pressed the air dodge button.

Wasn't sure if it was lag or not.

Thanks

Click to expand...

lol no. Airdodge is waaayyyyy longer than spotdodge.

WOAH How is DDD's Spotdodge so bad frame-wise?

That can't be right...

I didn't realize Link's spotdodge was so good. 0_o

Albert. said:

WOAH How is DDD's Spotdodge so bad frame-wise?

That can't be right...

Click to expand...

He leans way far back in the background. Most moves simply can't reach him there.

haha mks rolls seem so awkward.

Albert. said:

WOAH How is DDD's Spotdodge so bad frame-wise?

That can't be right...

Click to expand...

He still avoid hits that only hit around the 2 dimensional plane so only 1 frame of vulnerability when those hits only

Hitboxes are 3D

Trufax.

UberMario said:

I didn't realize Link's spotdodge was so good. 0_o

Click to expand...

It's Link, most people don't care sad to say.

Here's Melee's frame data for comparison:

This was written by M2K, btw.

"Note: almost all of the dodges start on frame 2, so in other words, for most of the dodges when you start them, you can only be hit the FIRST frame of the dodge. Some characters, like Captain Falcon and Zelda, start their invincible part of the dodge on the 3rd frame, and Bowser starts his on the 4th frame. Note that for 99% of attacks, Zelda is invincible for the 2nd frame + (but certain explosion moves can hit her on the 3rd frame of the move so it still counts as starting it on the 3rd frame)"

---Go here for more information about dodging: http://smashboards.com/showthread.ph...089#post493089

14/22 - Dr. Mario / Falco / Fox / Kirby / Link / Luigi / Mario / Pichu / Pikachu / Samus / Sheik / Yoshi / Young Link

17/27 - Ice Climbers / Marth / Ness / Peach / Roy

22/37 - DK

19/32 - Ganondorf

18/32 - Captain Falcon / Zelda

20/37 - Mewtwo

14/27 - Jigglypuff

21/42 - Bowser

The best spot dodges in Melee had 8 frames of lag.

So mindless spot dodge spamming was considerably easier to punish in Melee.

hmm, how could we measure roll distance effectivley?

combined with frame data, it may not be so bad to have a 30 frame roll if you cover like 75% more distance than the 20 frame ones

combining this a bit since it'd matter for distance, is there a size chart anywhere?

I know Olie is smallest and bowser is biggest, but what about everyone in between?

Keep in mind that GnW's aerial mobility is pretty high, giving him an effective airdodge.

SuSa said:

Not the most exact thing in the world:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=235804

Click to expand...

That's only for rolls while your character is on the ground.

Do we even have a data list that goes into detail about normal rolls?

time spent in the background? i'm assuming that this means that they can't be hit?