(Naruto VS Cloud possible!) Replacing characters with other Brawl characters

ds22 · Apr 3, 2010

When I saw the vid Joshl92 made of the two Link PSA's at once (found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e8tFcwYnfc ), I asked him what he did.
He said he only renamed FitLink.pac to FitToonLink.pac and placed those Link files in the Toon Link folder.
At first I didn't believe him, but after I tried to do it myself, I found out that it really worked (shown here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuREv2RdUwo ).
I wondered why this was possible and if it would work for other characters.
I tried bluntly replacing characters with Cloud, only to find out it didn't work.
That's when I thought about the wholu module thing.
So I looked into both Link's and Toon Link's module file with Phantom Wings Module viewer (a program called aU2f91.exe which he posted on Smash Boards for people who actually know how to edit modules, which I don't know) and saw that Link and Toon Link have the same amount of Constructor lines.
So I went to look into Ike's module file and find a character with the same amount of Constructor lines as Ike and I found out that Meta Knight has the same amount of Constructor lines.
So I went on and did the same thing I did with Link and renamed the files to match Meta Knight's name and putted it into the Meta Knight folder.
And guess what?
IT WORKED!!!
Well, to an extent...
Here is the proof:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLlh63LO-PA
Try doing it yourself if you don't believe me, you will be surprised.

fortwaffles · Apr 3, 2010

interesting...although, im not exactly sure whyitd freeze...
i tried something similar before, replacing lucarios files with all of lucas's except for the module, and i guess it worked, but i couldnt use certain moves

ds22 · Apr 3, 2010

fortwaffles said:
interesting...although, im not exactly sure whyitd freeze...
i tried something similar before, replacing lucarios files with all of lucas's except for the module, and i guess it worked, but i couldnt use certain moves

Maybe something specific in Meta Knight's module idk.
But at least now I know why and how it works.

STUFF2o · Apr 3, 2010

I hope PW or somebody makes an easier Module Editor. I can imagine that replacing characters like this could be made into an automated process with no glitches.

ds22 · Apr 3, 2010

Here's a list of the amount of Constructors of each character,
Each character that matches in number are interchangeable:

Captain Falcon 8
King Dedede 16
Diddy Kong 15
Donkey Kong 15
Falco 1
Fox 1
Mr. Game and Watch 17
Ganondorf 7
Ice Climbers 13
Ike 6
Kirby 15
Bowser 9
Link 9
Lucario 5
Lucas 15
Luigi 5
Mario 7
Marth 5
Meta Knight 6
Ness 19
Peach 4
Pikachu 8
Olimar 17
Pit 7
Pokemon Trainer(all poké's) 7
Jigglypuff 5
R.O.B. 7
Samus/ZSS 12
Snake 9
Sonic 5
Toon Link 9
Wario 27
Wolf 1
Yoshi 18
Fighting Alloy Team 4
Zelda 23

Bero · Apr 3, 2010

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMidCXKAuVg&feature=player_embedded
We have talked about it since two weeks ago,and one of us found a way to replace mario with marth.
But he works only in training mode...

[TSON] · Apr 3, 2010

Strange that Ness and Lucas dont have the same number....

Also! Where's the module editor?! I didn't even know it was out!

ds22 · Apr 3, 2010

TheSilenceOfNoOne said:
Strange that Ness and Lucas dont have the same number....

Also! Where's the module editor?! I didn't even know it was out!

It's a Module Viewer, not editor.
It lets you view hex offsets inside the Module file.
EDIT: I have been told by Dingoberriz that Ike works over Marth, which could mean that you can also replace characters with lower numbers.
EDIT2: Nope, Ike over Marth is just an exception of the rule.
But I have to look if it is something File Size Limit related, as for Ike over Jigglypuff didn't work.

Bero · Apr 3, 2010

Partial marth<-->mario switching is possible.
In other words, you can replace characters with higher numbers.

ds22 · Apr 3, 2010

Bero said:
Partial marth<-->mario switching is possible.
In other words, you can replace characters with higher numbers.

You tried?
Because I can confirm that Cloud works better when done over Marth then over Meta Knight (beside the fact the game freezes when you hit someone with Up-B).

Bero · Apr 3, 2010

Bero said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMidCXKAuVg&feature=player_embedded
We have talked about it since two weeks ago,and one of us found a way to replace mario with marth.
But he works only in training mode...

If you want to know more, I'll tell you how he did it.

Matteron · Apr 3, 2010

It is strange though, because razanak 7 is working on shadow over snake using the original sonic model, but it still works.
Also, new avatar for mez ^^

Ninka_kiwi · Apr 3, 2010

Matteron said:
It is strange though, because razanak 7 is working on shadow over snake using the original sonic model, but it still works.
Also, new avatar for mez ^^

well raznak 7 is makeing animations instead of just importing them onto the charcter

ds22 · Apr 3, 2010

Matteron said:
It is strange though, because razanak 7 is working on shadow over snake using the original sonic model, but it still works.

Does he also use the FitSonic.pac renamed to FitSnake.pac?
Because that is what the list is for (there are exceptions though).

[TSON] · Apr 3, 2010

ds22 said:
It's a Module Viewer, not editor.
It lets you view hex offsets inside the Module file.

Okay, but where is it?

ds22 · Apr 3, 2010

TheSilenceOfNoOne said:
Okay, but where is it?

Here you go:
http://www.mediafire.com/?tmwwykzgytz
Credit to Phantom Wings.
It's now a bit redundant because I already posted a list of Construction amounts and frankly, that's the only reason I used the program.

Matteron · Apr 3, 2010

ds22 said:
Does he also use the FitSonic.pac renamed to FitSnake.pac?
Because that is what the list is for (there are exceptions though).

Yup, FitSnake...

ds22 · Apr 3, 2010

Matteron said:
Yup, FitSnake...

Just renamed, right?
Because I then can see that there is a cruel line of exceptions coming my way which will destroy the rule.

Matteron · Apr 3, 2010

Yay for annoying brawl hacking rules!

ds22 · Apr 3, 2010

Matteron said:
Yay for annoying brawl hacking rules!

-_- That rule wasn't even a few hours old.
EDIT: New Cloud VS Naruto vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0w81MvTOv0
This proves that File Size Limit also has something to do with it, so that Constructors aren't that inportend (which confuses me).

Katy Parry · Apr 4, 2010

I don't know ANYTHING about any of this; the farthest I've went was getting Brawl + and using different textures.

But this is freakin' AMAZING. I can't believe it. I would love to see all kinds of characters in this!

If someone could push me in the right direction on how to learn this or texture hacking, I'd appreciate it very very much.

But pioneers like you are what make our community so great. Thanks.

Awesome find!

GSHCzach · Apr 6, 2010

This is awesome and apparently Ice Climbers and Pikachu are compatible with each other

ds22 · Apr 6, 2010

GSHCzach said:
This is awesome and apparently Ice Climbers and Pikachu are compatible with each other

Though you have to keep the File Size Limit in mind, as well as exceptions to the list.

Phantom Wings · Apr 7, 2010

Oi oi, did I finally turn senile and forget that I released it? Has someone been browsing through a certain archive? Or perhaps I've spontaneously developed an alter ego that's running around behind my back. (my bets are on that last one )

Well, I wanted it to be in a more complete form before releasing it, but no harm done. In any case, I might as well give you guys the rundown on what I know about the modules if they're going to go public. Community involvement always seems to speed up the process no matter how good of a hacker you are.

For those of you who have knowledge in Object Orient Programming, you'll probably get where I'm coming from (indeed, the source file names referenced inside the files have the .cpp extension ) If you browse through the end half of a module file using a hex editor you'll notice that there are certain strings that seems to be placed randomly and look sort of like declarations for something (ParamAccesser<0, 255, null> etc.) these are the classes that make up the character. The seemingly randomly sized empty space beneath them will later be filled by pointers to members and methods after the file loads itself The strings themselves don't appear to serve any purpose except to make understanding the files easier (thanks Nintendo!) but rather, the resources that are needed for the classes are handled via the constructors.

I would guess that because these classes are either just container classes or derived classes of such, it's possible for something like Toonlink's clawshot to load Link's clawshot .pac data without too much difficulty (of course, there's going to be some difference due to a different derivation of the article class)

I'd love to elaborate a bit more on this, but I've gotta' split pretty soon.

ds22 · Apr 7, 2010

Phantom Wings said:
Oi oi, did I finally turn senile and forget that I released it? Has someone been browsing through a certain archive? Or perhaps I've spontaneously developed an alter ego that's running around behind my back. (my bets are on that last one )

Well, I wanted it to be in a more complete form before releasing it, but no harm done. In any case, I might as well give you guys the rundown on what I know about the modules if they're going to go public. Community involvement always seems to speed up the process no matter how good of a hacker you are.

For those of you who have knowledge in Object Orient Programming, you'll probably get where I'm coming from (indeed, the source file names referenced inside the files have the .cpp extension ) If you browse through the end half of a module file using a hex editor you'll notice that there are certain strings that seems to be placed randomly and look sort of like declarations for something (ParamAccesser<0, 255, null> etc.) these are the classes that make up the character. The seemingly randomly sized empty space beneath them will later be filled by pointers to members and methods after the file loads itself The strings themselves don't appear to serve any purpose except to make understanding the files easier (thanks Nintendo!) but rather, the resources that are needed for the classes are handled via the constructors.

I would guess that because these classes are either just container classes or derived classes of such, it's possible for something like Toonlink's clawshot to load Link's clawshot .pac data without too much difficulty (of course, there's going to be some difference due to a different derivation of the article class)

I'd love to elaborate a bit more on this, but I've gotta' split pretty soon.

I found it by accident.
Your still working on your Module editor, right?
And how is the progress going?
Also, what you said about the strings you find when opening the module file in a hex editor, are these strings editable or are they hard coded to the module (and the character)?

(And wow, Phantom Wings posting in a thread I posted, I feel honored

).

Kaye Cruiser · Apr 7, 2010

Yay for Phantom's post of knowledge. :D

Glad to see there's going to be more progress on this. Until there is though,

I think I'll just continue to mess around with this since it's so fun. X3

Not only is having Shadow and Silver in the same match as Sonic awesome, but now I can finally fight Hyper Sonic using Sonic himself, who is my best main. Hyper may not be able to use his B attacks, aside from Air Side-B, or be able to double jump, but he's still as formidable as ever. Especially if you fight him on a run off stage.

I wonder who I should replace next... :3

leafbarrett · Apr 7, 2010

Who's somebody that Lucario's compatible with? ;-;

angelbless · Apr 8, 2010

:o This is very interesting :o

GSHCzach · Apr 8, 2010

Well I can say Lucario isn't compatible with Luigi (despite them having the same number. Maybe I'm doing something wrong <.<)

Matteron · Apr 8, 2010

Try putting it over jiggz, also, you are not doinitwrong.

Thany · Apr 8, 2010

What about Marth?
Anyone know who he'd go over that'll work well?
If it's Sonic that'll work perfectly given my situation
(Sorry Sonic fans. My sibling...Uh..Isn't a fan to say the least,
plus it's his Wii, Brawl, decision on who gets switched for who, etc : / )
I wants mah boi >:3 8

Kaye Cruiser · Apr 9, 2010

People have tried, people have failed.

Tooo baaad. :3 *SMACKED*

Thany · Apr 10, 2010

???

Hwa?

*doesn't understand what you mean*

Does...That mean that Roy'll only work over Marth?

...

New question then,

Who will Marth work the best over?(So Roy can replace regular Marth, and so
someone else can be axed for a copy-Marth, assuming that could work)

OizenX · Apr 11, 2010

I wouldn't exactly say "possible" just yet.

When you can play the game with out it freezing when you jump, then its possible.

Katy Parry · Apr 11, 2010

Is it possible to use Lara Croft from Tomb Raider: Anniversary?

Kaye Cruiser · Apr 11, 2010

Thany said:
???

Hwa?

*doesn't understand what you mean*

Does...That mean that Roy'll only work over Marth?

...

New question then,

Who will Marth work the best over?(So Roy can replace regular Marth, and so
someone else can be axed for a copy-Marth, assuming that could work)

I'm saying that Marth has yet to work over anyone else, which means Roy won't work either. :3

ds22 · Apr 11, 2010

(Dr.) Mario works over Luigi and Sonic, but if you perform a Special, the game freezes.

Pokechao · Apr 12, 2010

ds22 said:
Here's a list of the amount of Constructors of each character,
Each character that matches in number are interchangeable:

Captain Falcon 8
King Dedede 16
Diddy Kong 15
Donkey Kong 15
Falco 1
Fox 1
Mr. Game and Watch 17
Ganondorf 7
Ice Climbers 13
Ike 6
Kirby 15
Bowser 9
Link 9
Lucario 5
Lucas 15
Luigi 5
Mario 7
Marth 5
Meta Knight 6
Ness 19
Peach 4
Pikachu 8
Olimar 17
Pit 7
Pokemon Trainer(all poké's) 7
Jigglypuff 5
R.O.B. 7
Samus/ZSS 12
Snake 9
Sonic 5
Toon Link 9
Wario 27
Wolf 1
Yoshi 18
Fighting Alloy Team 4
Zelda 23

Are you sure you didn't miscount sonic's or marth's constructors? because I moved sonic's files over marth and none of his specials work, The FS freezes the game, and you can't double jump.

Pokechao · Apr 14, 2010

Wave Kusanagi said:
Yay for Phantom's post of knowledge. :D

Glad to see there's going to be more progress on this. Until there is though,

I think I'll just continue to mess around with this since it's so fun. X3

Not only is having Shadow and Silver in the same match as Sonic awesome, but now I can finally fight Hyper Sonic using Sonic himself, who is my best main. Hyper may not be able to use his B attacks, aside from Air Side-B, or be able to double jump, but he's still as formidable as ever. Especially if you fight him on a run off stage.

I wonder who I should replace next... :3

What characters did you replace? I can't seem to find a char that I can replace with sonic.

Kaye Cruiser · Apr 15, 2010

Hyper was over DK, Silver over Luigi, and Shadow over Marth. :3

(Naruto VS Cloud possible!) Replacing characters with other Brawl characters

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